That article reads like something written in the early 80s even though it was written in 2007. That being said, it would be interesting to do a simple study with an accelerometer and different grounding technologies on a speaker.... |
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Pkoegz, whoever the guy is that you quote, he is clueless about resonance. Everything has one, and does dampen down to that point and then get wild through the point of resonance. So you can choose your poison. |
Actually it is you Tbg who is clueless and in denial. If you read you see he goes into both sides of the issue good and bad. If you do not like him plenty of other articles out there. You are buying into bull and don't know what to do. There are only a few co out there that really understand or take the time to design proper well thought out isolation products, SAR, HRS, Stillpoints and a few others. You convince yourself you can get as good if not the best at very low pricing. That it cost nothing to properly design something let alone manufacture it. Then call an article delusional or poorly written or like was written in the 70's, like isolation facts have changed since then. Simply because they point out in an article how little you obviously know or understand. Burn the writer and his article he is spreading unclean thoughts! Like I said you guys are funny. |
Actually it is you Tbg who is clueless and in denial. If you read the article through you would understand he goes into both sides of the issue positive and negative. That he explains why how and when they are useful and the theories behind them. He explains why the floor disc need to be small and how they effect the spikes. If you do not like this article there are plenty of others out there. Do a little research, google it. You are buying into bull and don't know what to do. There are only a few co's out there that really understand or take the time to design proper well thought out isolation products, SAR, HRS, Stillpoints and a few others. You convince yourself you can get as good if not the best at very low pricing. That it cost nothing to properly design something let alone manufacture it. Then call an article delusional or poorly written or as if it was written in the 70's, like isolation facts have changed since then. Simply because they point out in an article how little you obviously know or understand. Burn the writer at the stake he is spreading unclean thoughts that I do not agree with or fit into my world! Like I said, "you guys are funny". |
Glory I have had many different footers on many high end speaker systems. The magico q5's come with extremely well made and no doubt expensive spikes. If you think brass is the answer by all means enjoy. I have had spikes on tt's, on all types of stands, etc., don't like them. Don't believe in their "science". Here's an article that makes my point. Think as you wish, I prefer real science, engineering and independent thought. Which footers have you tried? The Magico footers are aluminum no doubt. I am a man of "science" as well. One of the central elements to any science is experimentation. You should try the Starsound products (stands not the footers) and report back. It is a company with a team of engineers involved. No soggy pseudo-science. BTW, the SS products do not work by "isolation." Your panties are bunched up in part due to semantics.... |
Pkoegz, I think it is you who are buying into bull although I agree with you about StillPoints. The main purpose of points is increasing the foot pounds per square inch. Mass is hard to accelerate with vibrations. But the real issue is that everything has a resonant frequency. He discusses the benefits of rubber feet and says nothing about how awful rubber makes the speakers sound.
Stillpoints innovation is to convert vertical motion into horizon motion and then to heat. That is good science if vertical motion is the vibration we need to avoid. Star Sound's focus is to get the vibrations in components to ground quickly. They also focus on good science of the speed of sound through metals. Your guy focuses on spikes on runners shoes which are to improve friction or traction on surfaces. Yes, your speakers on spikes will not slide easily.
Your not funny at all. Enjoy your music. |
Pkoegz,
You should compare both SP and Star Sound products directly and then decide based on listening. This is superior to citing articles of someone's opinion. Contributors to this thread have actually compared and the majority have selected Star sound as their preference. So just listen and determine which is better in your system. There's no better solution than hearing for yourself.
Charles, |
Agear, generally when you hear people claiming to be scientists they really are engineers, who think we know everything about how nature works. I once was majoring in EE, when the discussion of Ohm's law came up. I was an undergraduate assistant in physics lab and said that I had noticed a normal distribution in student results in measuring current flow in various circuits. The professor said that the students measurement were just not accurate enough, but my physics professor said that there were other factors that we had yet to account for.
I must admit that I just dismiss those who make claims that engineers know all there is to know. I fully expect that individual tastes in music reproduction leads them to different buying decisions. |
I look at footers as tuning devices. As such, the appropriate type of footer--whether it is designed to tightly couple the speaker to the floor or whether it is designed to decouple the speaker from the floor and dissipate energy in the device--depends on the specific system and room characteristics. For example, coupling to a poured concrete floor is entirely different in effect to coupling to a suspended wooden floor (where coupling could make the floor act as a sounding board).
Because there is no one singular "right" approach in all circumstances, it would not make sense for the designer to build in multi-thousand dollar footers or speaker platforms when that might be the "wrong" approach in a particular application.
I use Symposium platforms under my speakers. I have heard experiments with the same platforms under other speakers in someone else's system where that was NOT the way to go. With all such tuning devices, experimentation is the way to go. I cannot think of any such devices which universally improve sound--components, environment, personal taste all matter; if it alters the sound, it can alter it for good or bad. |
There plenty of info out there just look. http://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/equipment-stand-and-speaker-spikes-why?reply=1566878606786862 Another http://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-audio-theory-setup-chat/1405998-spikes-vs-soft-feet-under-speakers.html another http://theadvancedaudiophile.blogspot.com/2011/07/no-spikes-club.html |
Larryi, in principle I agree with you but I only one time found a device where the Stillpoints don't improve the performance of a component. It was on a HB Cable Designs Acrylic PowerSlave. I used them on three turntables, five amps, four preamps, and four dacs or universal players. My experience with the Star Sound Tech. Apprentics, completely different concept devices, is limited to one pair of speakers, two amps, three preamps, and a pair of external crossovers. I have heard no instance where they didn't greatly improve the sound. They have a different sound than the Stillpoints, however.
I have piles of other platforms and feet around, that were each somewhat different, but could not compete with either the Stillpoints or the Star Sound Apprentics. |
That's just guys posting stuff on the internet.
You could say the same thing about Tbg, Charles1dad, Agear, Roxy54 and others on this thread, and you'd be right about that. The difference is they actually used the products being discussed before they posted stuff on the internet. |
I am installing 2 sets of (3) Ultra 5's with Ultra bases under my Magico S5's in the new few weeks in the optimal sloped side up configuration. I hope to post an update later with my findings. |
Melbguy1, with the Ultra bases you will not be using the Ultra 5s in the recommended way. I have no idea what threaded options there are under the Magico S5s but if you could use them to mount the Ultra 5s so that there is some minimal distance between the bottom of the speaker and the bottom of the Ultra 5s, you could adjust the angle of the speaker, mount them properly, make the speakers more secure, and save the money for the bases.
I have a pair of LSA1 monitors with no threaded holes on their bottom for which I have to use the Ultra SS wrong and dearly wish I could use them the other way. |
Melbguy1,
I installed two sets of four ultra 5's under my Q5's. No bases though. Did not see the point(no pun intended). I also bought 8 of the Stillpoints adapters 1/4 20 to 3/8 16 which you will need as well. I love the look and solid foundation they give the Q5's. As far as vibration control goes, under the loudest volumes the speaker housings remain quiet with no vibration. What else can you ask for? I hated their original STAINLESS STEEL spikes. Wrote magico about my view never heard back. Can't do better. My experience anyway. Expensive though, but I guessing you know that. |
In my opinion the article "Speaker Spikes and Cones – What’s the point" by Dr. Jim Lesurf is very well written.
The ones here who have criticized it should realize that this article was intended for non-expert readers (e.g. audiophiles and audiophile journalists) and not for a speciality journal. The goal of the article was to explain to non-experts that spikes do not isolate (as it is often believed or claimed) but increase the coupling e.g. between speakers and floor. The analogy given for explaining this (i.e. spikes on running shoes) is as simple and clear as it gets. The ones who do not understand this analogy are simply in no position to criticize the article or understand it for that matter.
As other have already mentioned, all these vibration management devices (e.g. footers, spikes, etc.) are fine tuning devices which depending on the situation may work or may not work.
(These devices are unable to get rid of the real elephant on ones room, i.e. excited room modes - the most critical type of rezonance in one's system. Consequently, I am of the opinion that one should take care of those type or resonances first before starting to debate the benefits and superiority of various fine tuning devices.)
I apologies if I sound condescending, but I lost my patience with some of the silly arguments above. I have started to read this thread in the hope of learning something from people with first hand experience with these products ...
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The goal of the article was to explain to non-experts that spikes do not isolate (as it is often believed or claimed) but increase the coupling e.g. between speakers and floor. Nvp, the goal of the article and its unfortunate resurrection seemed to be to cast a jaundiced eye on their use in the context of a thread celebrating such a technology. Since you're a physicist, please explain how they might be beneficial, and you're not allowed to use that lame analogy of shoe and cleat. Here is one explanation from Starsound technology by way of the department of engineering at Stanford: http://starsoundaudio.com/CMS/uploads/vibration-and-coulomb-friction-2013_001.pdf Here is a snippet from Robert of SS: Link to Coulomb Friction on website:
http://starsoundaudio.com/liveVibeDetails2.php?Vibration-and-Coulomb-Friction-5
Conclusion and Application
Essentially, Coulomb friction (or forced-damped vibration) is not considered to be acknowledged here unless it is a repeated resonance or of an oscillatory pattern. The above text is taken with a simplistic approach considering a singular part of a signal.
In the terms of music or other complex signals such as keyboard synthesizers, strings, drums, etc., many of the stated parameters are required to be addressed to each part of the signal simultaneously. This creates very complex harmonics which can carry out to several or multiple levels of harmonics, noting that there will be a reduction in amplitude over time.
Simply stated, if the vibration is not directed away from the source, it will modulate the source causing the original signal to appear distorted, thus defining the requirement for continuous dissipation of vibration.
In a practical application scenario, you have multiple electronic components and loudspeakers connected through a series of conduits (defined as instruments), all of which interact with each other producing sound and picture. We describe this union as a system.
The system generates and conducts various forms of resonance, including mechanical, electrical, and airborne. Refer to “The Proving Grounds” for more details on these basic principles online at http://starsoundaudio.com/liveVibeDetails2.php?THE-PROVING-GROUNDS-3
This form of resonant energy is indirectly reintroduced to the system and will cause interference with the signal pathway (being that of the whole) at one or more points in the audio/visual reproduction process. If not addressed, these resonance patterns will propagate forming inefficiencies thus limiting the productÂ’s function and affecting the overall sound and/or visual quality.
Employing isolation techniques, one merely protects one component from interfering with another that it is in direct contact with. Isolation increases the effects of Coulomb friction by building resistance between the mating surfaces. With regards to airborne resonance, isolation principles serve much like the dielectric material in a capacitance device, essentially turning the component into a giant Resonance Capacitor.
This is not the opinion of our company, Star Sound Technologies, LLC but rather that of the average graduate - level physics textbook.
Minimizing the resistance (as caused by Coulomb friction) via a mechanical grounding process is the only logical way to compensate for the effects of Mechanical, Electrical and Airborne resonance within any given system.
Again, if detrimental vibration is not directed away from a component, loudspeaker or cable conduit, it will modulate and re-modulate the original signal causing degradation of said signal. This defines the requirement for continuous dissipation (not isolation) of the unwanted vibration.
©2002 Star Sound Technologies, LLC Page 6 of 6
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08-05-14: Tbg
Melbguy1, with the Ultra bases you will not be using the Ultra 5s in the recommended way. I have no idea what threaded options there are under the Magico S5s but if you could use them to mount the Ultra 5s so that there is some minimal distance between the bottom of the speaker and the bottom of the Ultra 5s, you could adjust the angle of the speaker, mount them properly, make the speakers more secure, and save the money for the bases.
I have a pair of LSA1 monitors with no threaded holes on their bottom for which I have to use the Ultra SS wrong and dearly wish I could use them the other way. Tbg, I think what your'e referring to is the fact that up to recently, Ultra 5 feet were only threaded on the bottom to enable the feet to be screwed into components and speakers (as per the Vitus MP-S201), however Stillpoints recently started spec'ing Ultra 5's with threading on the top *and* bottom to enable the feet to be installed in the optimal sloped side up configuration. Now when I say "optimal" that is my subjective opinion, although I note my viewpoint accords with Christiaan Punter who authored the following review for hifi-advice.com - http://hifi-advice.com/Stillpoints-review-2.html In regard to using the thread adaptors attached to the speaker for height adjustment (in lieu of using the Ultra Bases), I don't think that would work as, atleast the thread adaptors I have for my S5's are too short on the speaker end to allow any useful height adjustment, and to do so might compromise the structural integrity of the adaptor. Imho you don't want to push it as for example my S5's are 86kg which is a lot of weight baring down on the adaptor & I know of one other S5 owner who, using the older narrower adaptors, bent an adaptor 'walking' his speakers into place. My newly spec'ed adaptors however have a much larger diameter for the most part which will give the adapter greater strength. Btw, the Ultra bases further improve the sound of the Ultra 5's by allowing the 'technology pocket' to be better isolated, and therefore work more efficiently. I tried the Ultra 5's with Ultra bases under my Vitus SIA-025 and found one foot was not fully in contact with the component with all 4 bases broken a 1/4 of a turn as recommended. A quick adjustment of the Ultra base & problem solved! The easy height adjustment is another positive about that product. Given they are only about $69 each, to me if you're going to invest almost $700 on an Ultra 5, they are a no-brainer. |
08-05-14: Pkoegz
Melbguy1,
I installed two sets of four ultra 5's under my Q5's. No bases though. Did not see the point(no pun intended). I also bought 8 of the Stillpoints adapters 1/4 20 to 3/8 16 which you will need as well. I love the look and solid foundation they give the Q5's. As far as vibration control goes, under the loudest volumes the speaker housings remain quiet with no vibration. What else can you ask for? I hated their original STAINLESS STEEL spikes. Wrote magico about my view never heard back. Can't do better. My experience anyway. Expensive though, but I guessing you know that.
Thanks for your f'back on the Ultra 5's Pkoegz. I'm glad you've had success using them under your Q5's. Given the weight of the Q5's the U5's would be working optimally in terms of their weight range. In regard to the Ultra bases, have a read of my above post, and in particular Christiaan Punter's review which is quite interesting. Cheers. |
Melbguy1
I find that the footers function better tightly attached to the body of the speaker. The weight of the speaker then settles the ultra 5's to the floor making for an extremely stable, level set up. The adapters, as far as I can tell, are not for any type of adjustment. Christiaan Punter seems to use the bases under amps and such. Stillpoint suggest you will get the same result used in either direction, which makes sense to me. I prefer the threaded. I have the ultra 5's under my turntable and threaded to it. If I were you I would also order the adapters, then try both and decide for yourself. On an unrelated matter I too own the Vitus SIA-025 and love it. |
Melbguy1, I got my information directly from Paul Wakeen owner of Stillpoints but it was before there were the Ultra bases. I was doing a review of them, I did a comparison one time of Ultra SSs as they do allow some height adjustment. They definitely sounded better with the taper toward speakers as the technology is at the hard hat (tapered) end.
Since three points define a plain, anytime you use four, one will typically not in contact, so you would need some method to get contact. Incidentally, in my experience, four Ultra on everything are much better than three. And this is not subtle. |
Nvp
I enjoyed your above post. Some find it difficult to read things that fly in the face of what they believe. This is the basic problem with society in general. Facts don't matter, just opinions. To each their own. Fortunately, opinions don't change the out come. Keep reading and posting, maybe they will learn from you. |
(These devices are unable to get rid of the real elephant on ones room, i.e. excited room modes - the most critical type of rezonance in one's system. Consequently, I am of the opinion that one should take care of those type or resonances first before starting to debate the benefits and superiority of various fine tuning devices.) That's a fairly profound and perceptive statement. That is the reason why I worked with SS technology on designing a room with mechanically grounding in mind so as to "manage" room energies. The walls were treated with their proprietary technology and not viscoelastics from the 80s....:/ More information will be available with a formal system thread of mine and a subsequent review in the not too distant future.... |
Agear, I guess I've heard about your room from Star Sound. Apparently there will be others soon and I think I will get to hear them. Thus far I have never liked room treatments, although at first I can hear their impact. At some point, I hear their wrong sound and enjoy removing them.
I look forward to reading your description of the techniques and their impact. |
08-06-14: Tbg
Agear, I guess I've heard about your room from Star Sound. Apparently there will be others soon and I think I will get to hear them. Thus far I have never liked room treatments, although at first I can hear their impact. At some point, I hear their wrong sound and enjoy removing them.
I look forward to reading your description of the techniques and their impact. I share those sentiments and thus the absence of "treatments" in my room. All the operative elements in my "energy room" are internal. IMO, standard paradigms of room treatment tend to be parasitic of ambient energy and thus lack the plausibility of a good auditory illusion. SS shared this sentiment and thus the reason we danced the dance with this crazy prototype of a room. It all started as idle daydreaming and chatter between Robert and myself over three years ago. I had audiophile friends telling me it was a crazy and expensive experiment. Indeed, but my intuition was correct and it worked. |
Agear's room is not treated, no it is birthed from the ground up. I have heard his room and my voice has never sounded so wonderful. I had no idea I sounded so incredible! Simple conversation was startling and so alive. An experience I will never forget.
I know this about that room. I have no doubt a set of decent used $100 speakers and a receiver would sound better in his room than many high end systems in typical rooms. No joke fellow Aphiles. A revelation to be sure. |
08-06-14: Tbg
Incidentally, in my experience, four Ultra on everything are much better than three. And this is not subtle. + 1. I was blown away by the improvement using 4 Ultra 5's under my Vitus! |
08-06-14: Pkoegz
Melbguy1
I find that the footers function better tightly attached to the body of the speaker. The weight of the speaker then settles the ultra 5's to the floor making for an extremely stable, level set up. The adapters, as far as I can tell, are not for any type of adjustment. Christiaan Punter seems to use the bases under amps and such. Stillpoint suggest you will get the same result used in either direction, which makes sense to me. I prefer the threaded. I have the ultra 5's under my turntable and threaded to it. If I were you I would also order the adapters, then try both and decide for yourself. On an unrelated matter I too own the Vitus SIA-025 and love it. Thanks for your advice Pkoegz regarding connecting the Ultra 5's under Magico speakers. That makes sense because you apply the same principle under an amp for example. In regard to Stillpoints claim the Ultra 5's sound the same sloped side up or down, I don't agree with that. And there is enough forum & review feedback to suggest so. You don't really need to thread the U5's to front end components or amps since they don't generate the same energy as speakers, and aren't at risk of being bumped like speakers. And screwing them into the component limits where you can place the feet. In the case of my SIA-025 Hans Ole Vitus experimented with Ultra 5's under his own SIA-025 and got the best results placing the feet under the screw locations for the psu (which generates the most vibration). Makes sense & works a treat! Try it and post an update :) ps: great amp! |
Melbguy1
No more Stillpoints for me I am done at twelve. I have an sra craz rack for my electronics to sit on. Getting ready to retire. I am as close to done as you can get. Just repeating what I read on the Stillpoints web site. I will have to take your word on the subject. Enjoy p.kogan |
Pkoegz, SRA rack, wow! Do you find any benefit of using StillPoints on the SRA? If so, I would suggest the Ultra Minis which are exception and cheap. You need to be careful with them, however, as you can shatter the ceramic balls, I'm told.
I am retired now and find that I'm unwilling to miss out on developments at this point in my life. Since my retirement five years ago, my realism has greatly improved making me wish I had it fifty years ago. |
Agear, I suggest the following easy experiment. Place on a normal office table a component that has a fan (which is neither very quiet not very noisy), e.g. a computer or an external hard-drive. After turning on the component, place your elbows on the table and a finger in each of your ear and listen to the vibrations generated by the fan that travel through the table. Then, place a cushion between your elbow and the table and listen again.
I predict the following outcome:
1) When resting on the table using your elbows you will hear very clearly and loudly these vibrations. (There is a decently strong coupling between our ears and the medium conducting the vibrations.)
2) When placing a cushion between your elbows and the table you will hear these vibrations significantly less. (The coupling has been significantly reduce in this situation.)
3) When removing your elbows from the table you will hear the fan but not the vibration generated by the fan that travel through the table. (There is no coupling in this situation).
Obviously, in the experiment suggested above the elbows play the same role the spikes play in an audio system.
The simple experiment suggested above should illustrate to everyone that spikes do not isolate. On the contrary, spikes increase the coupling between the spiked audio component and the surface on which this audio component rests. (In fact, even poor spikes like our elbows provide a decent amount of coupling!)
It is important to note, however, that this is not necessarily a bad thing. For example, increasing the coupling can be beneficial for subwoofers or speakers with large bass drivers. The large mass of the floor and the strong coupling between the floor and speaker provides a very strong foundation for the bass drivers, viz. the movements of the driver are less likely to induce movements of the cabinet of the speaker/subwoofer. (The strong coupling between floor and speaker will also change the spectrum of resonant frequencies of the floor and also of the speaker - because of the added mass and the change in geometry. Depending on the situation and also on the listener this may affect the sound positively, negatively or not at all.)
The problem with most spikes is that they allow vibrations to go in both directions. That is, not only from the speakers into the floor but also from the floor into the speakers. This effect is not desirable. The reason is that one wants to hear the music reproduced by the speakers, i.e. not the music produced by the speaker and modulated by spectrum of resonant frequencies of the floor. |
The problem with most spikes is that they allow vibrations to go in both directions. That is, not only from the speakers into the floor but also from the floor into the speakers. This effect is not desirable. The easiest way to test that hypothesis would be to do what John Atkinson at Stereophile did many moons ago. Attach an accelerometer to the speaker cabinet and see what happens with and without your grounding device of choice. |
Nvp, When you have a sharp spike, you have many foot pounds per square inch from the weight of the component focused on that point. Mass means great inertia resisting motion. The expectation is that the component will be coupled to the shelf and then ultimately to earth. But that the floor's vibrations will have a hard time inducing vibrations in the component.
But as alway the proof is in the pudding-does it sound better. Brass spikes differ in sound from steel ones, etc. Clearly resonant frequencies of the coupling also matter.
Would you recommend only putting components on cushions? That might be taken as nonsense by some. |
"Would you recommend only putting components on cushions?"
Not a bad idea, but only if really high quality high build expensive ones from an audio boutique type company.
Pier One just will not do. :^) |
Would you recommend only putting components on cushions? That might be taken as nonsense by some. Ha! Cloud 9 cushions are the brand to look for.... |
Guys, you are missing the point. The goal of the little experiment above was to illustrate that in order to isolate a component one has to minimize as much as possible couplings. I did not recommended placing speakers on pillows nor did I recommended to isolate them from the floor. I merely suggested a simple experiment that should provide some insight into the physics involved. (This experiment can be done by anyone that is not completely deaf, has a hand with at least one finger and a computer with a fan that is not completely silent, i.e. a significant amount of the audiogoners. How many people here have an accelerometer Agear?)
Regarding the two companies discussed here, I should point out that their philosophy and goals are basically the same. (In fact all top companies in this field tell about the same stories.) Both types of footers discussed here aim at draining out into the floor unwanted vibrations from the component resting on them, i.e. neither is trying to isolate the component. What is different is the way these devices are trying to achieve this. That is, one is increasing coupling to the floor while the other one is attempting to make the flow of energy unidirectional.
About the resonance phenomenon Tbg, any 2 or 3 dimensional structure has characteristic frequencies called normal modes of vibrations (or eigen modes or resonant frequencies). The normal modes of vibrations of a structure represent the frequencies for which the transfer of energies between a structure and a source of vibration is maximum. Now, the normal modes of a structure are determined by the geometry of the structure and the distribution of mass in the structure (i.e. they are specific to each structure). Consequently, when placing a heavy speaker on the floor the resonant frequencies of the floor and also of the speaker will be affected. How significantly the normal modes change will be and which of normal modes will be affected depends on: the type of floor, how heavy the speaker, were you place the speakers in the room, where your room is situated in the building (e.g. ground floor, 1st floor, floor 100). As such, one (i.e. user or manufacturer) cannot know before hand which of these devices will provide the best result. One simply has to try them in his/her system.
I hope I made it clear that I am not saying that one device/approach/company is better than the other one. I also hope it is now clear that I am not trying to provide a solution - there isn't a general one. Like Dr. Lesurf, I have merely tried to provide logical arguments that show why some reviewers, manufacturer, sale persons and audiogoners make silly claims when the say that spikes actually isolate.
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Nvp, you are wrong that Stillpoints and Star Sound Tech. use the same technology. The Star Sound Apprentices seek to get vibration within the components to ground quickly. They don't favor the "absorption" which is what Stillpoints employs. With Stillpoints all vertical movement in the devices is converted into horizontal movement and converted into heat. Not surprisingly they sound quite different.
If the Stillpoints are 100% effective, they alone provide isolation. Everything else absorbs somewhat down to its resonant frequency. |
Nvp, you are wrong that Stillpoints and Star Sound Tech. use the same technology. Tbg, please take the time to read and think at what I have written. Philosophy and technology are two very different things. Both products aim at draining out unwanted vibrations from the audio components - that is the common philosophy. The fact that ceramic balls and spikes represent different "technologies" is common sense. Nobody has claimed otherwise. In fact, I have made it very clear in the 2nd paragraph of my previous post that the approach used by the two companies is very different. |
How many people here have an accelerometer Agear? Not exactly an exotic device (http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1-1001220-0/MSP1001-ND/279641). DIY speakers boys often use them Like Dr. Lesurf, I have merely tried to provide logical arguments that show why some reviewers, manufacturer, sale persons and audiogoners make silly claims when the say that spikes actually isolate. No one on this thread is making that claim. This is merely a game of semantics, and yes the term is often misused in audio. I cannot deny that... |
Nvp, i'm not familiar with the other product mentioned, but my understanding of your explanation of Stillpoints technology is correct. Wonderful products...I should know, I have 18 so far (incuding 14 Ultra 5's) and growing! |
Melbguy1, The component when using the Stillpoints sits on ceramic balls. Each of these balls sits on other balls that almost allow the top one to fall through. It tries to force the balls below outward, but they cannot move. That outward pressure is only horizontal. This is how vibrations are converted largely into horizontal vibrations and ultimately converted into heat in the Stillpoints.
Thus the Stillpoints absorb the vibrations and convert them into heat. This is quite at odds with the Star Sounds Technology Apprentices which seek to get the vibration to earth with speed and not absorption until it is in the earth, which tends to unperturbed by this tiny force. |
Why are they using th gold colour? Personally I think it looks ugly. They should have made them just in silver! |
Bo1972, yes we heard that before but I'm confused or you are. Stillpoint are made of stainless steel. |
Tbg,
He's complaining about the color of Starsound audio points...again. |
Roxy54, Yes, I know but apparently he doesn't seek to communicate and doesn't pay any attention to answers he gets. |
Charles,
I certainly understand color preferences, but when there is no choice because it must be made of a certain alloy that has a golden color, it's a whole different story. At that point, you just have to accept it for what it must be, and appreciate it for what it is. Grass is green and the sky is blue for a reason, and wishing otherwise is not going to change them either, even if we don't find green or blue attractive. |
Hi Roxy54,
Was that reply for me? I have no issues with the choice of brass if its been deemed the best material for the chosen application. Bo is the one who's concerned about the color.
Charles, |
Hi Charles,
No, of course it wasn't for you. I was commenting on why I can't make sense of Bol1972's strong objection to the color of the brass. Sorry for the confusion buddy.
John |
will painting the star sound audio points change the sound?, maybe the designer can answer?, personally, I do not care what color they are. |
