Stillpoints and reference-level speakers

My experience is that it is next to impossible to have an intelligent conversation with Mr. Bobby Kingma, i.e. Bo1972. It is like talking with Forrest Gump or with a talking parrot. Irrespective of the topic discussed, he will invariably start preaching about one of the following topics:

1) "2d and 3d sound”
2) “qualities" of electronics
3) The fact that he has an identical sound memory.
4) How almost all subwoofers are slower then the Monitor Audio subs he is selling
5) The fact the the editor of a dutch magazine has call him to tell him that he has had the best sound at a dutch show that was organised in 2012.

He is doing the same thing also on the dutch forums, and to me (not a native dutch speaker) he sound somewhat illiterate also when writing in dutch (his native language). Thus, my advice is to simply ignore him. I hope Audiogon will some day introduce an ignore button.

In my opinion the article "Speaker Spikes and Cones – What’s the point" by Dr. Jim Lesurf is very well written.

The ones here who have criticized it should realize that this article was intended for non-expert readers (e.g. audiophiles and audiophile journalists) and not for a speciality journal. The goal of the article was to explain to non-experts that spikes do not isolate (as it is often believed or claimed) but increase the coupling e.g. between speakers and floor. The analogy given for explaining this (i.e. spikes on running shoes) is as simple and clear as it gets. The ones who do not understand this analogy are simply in no position to criticize the article or understand it for that matter.

As other have already mentioned, all these vibration management devices (e.g. footers, spikes, etc.) are fine tuning devices which depending on the situation may work or may not work.

(These devices are unable to get rid of the real elephant on ones room, i.e. excited room modes - the most critical type of rezonance in one's system. Consequently, I am of the opinion that one should take care of those type or resonances first before starting to debate the benefits and superiority of various fine tuning devices.)

I apologies if I sound condescending, but I lost my patience with some of the silly arguments above. I have started to read this thread in the hope of learning something from people with first hand experience with these products ...

Agear, I suggest the following easy experiment. Place on a normal office table a component that has a fan (which is neither very quiet not very noisy), e.g. a computer or an external hard-drive. After turning on the component, place your elbows on the table and a finger in each of your ear and listen to the vibrations generated by the fan that travel through the table. Then, place a cushion between your elbow and the table and listen again.

I predict the following outcome:

1) When resting on the table using your elbows you will hear very clearly and loudly these vibrations. (There is a decently strong coupling between our ears and the medium conducting the vibrations.)

2) When placing a cushion between your elbows and the table you will hear these vibrations significantly less. (The coupling has been significantly reduce in this situation.)

3) When removing your elbows from the table you will hear the fan but not the vibration generated by the fan that travel through the table. (There is no coupling in this situation).

Obviously, in the experiment suggested above the elbows play the same role the spikes play in an audio system.

The simple experiment suggested above should illustrate to everyone that spikes do not isolate. On the contrary, spikes increase the coupling between the spiked audio component and the surface on which this audio component rests. (In fact, even poor spikes like our elbows provide a decent amount of coupling!)

It is important to note, however, that this is not necessarily a bad thing. For example, increasing the coupling can be beneficial for subwoofers or speakers with large bass drivers. The large mass of the floor and the strong coupling between the floor and speaker provides a very strong foundation for the bass drivers, viz. the movements of the driver are less likely to induce movements of the cabinet of the speaker/subwoofer. (The strong coupling between floor and speaker will also change the spectrum of resonant frequencies of the floor and also of the speaker - because of the added mass and the change in geometry. Depending on the situation and also on the listener this may affect the sound positively, negatively or not at all.)

The problem with most spikes is that they allow vibrations to go in both directions. That is, not only from the speakers into the floor but also from the floor into the speakers. This effect is not desirable. The reason is that one wants to hear the music reproduced by the speakers, i.e. not the music produced by the speaker and modulated by spectrum of resonant frequencies of the floor.

Guys, you are missing the point. The goal of the little experiment above was to illustrate that in order to isolate a component one has to minimize as much as possible couplings. I did not recommended placing speakers on pillows nor did I recommended to isolate them from the floor. I merely suggested a simple experiment that should provide some insight into the physics involved. (This experiment can be done by anyone that is not completely deaf, has a hand with at least one finger and a computer with a fan that is not completely silent, i.e. a significant amount of the audiogoners. How many people here have an accelerometer Agear?)

Regarding the two companies discussed here, I should point out that their philosophy and goals are basically the same. (In fact all top companies in this field tell about the same stories.) Both types of footers discussed here aim at draining out into the floor unwanted vibrations from the component resting on them, i.e. neither is trying to isolate the component. What is different is the way these devices are trying to achieve this. That is, one is increasing coupling to the floor while the other one is attempting to make the flow of energy unidirectional.

About the resonance phenomenon Tbg, any 2 or 3 dimensional structure has characteristic frequencies called normal modes of vibrations (or eigen modes or resonant frequencies). The normal modes of vibrations of a structure represent the frequencies for which the transfer of energies between a structure and a source of vibration is maximum. Now, the normal modes of a structure are determined by the geometry of the structure and the distribution of mass in the structure (i.e. they are specific to each structure). Consequently, when placing a heavy speaker on the floor the resonant frequencies of the floor and also of the speaker will be affected. How significantly the normal modes change will be and which of normal modes will be affected depends on: the type of floor, how heavy the speaker, were you place the speakers in the room, where your room is situated in the building (e.g. ground floor, 1st floor, floor 100). As such, one (i.e. user or manufacturer) cannot know before hand which of these devices will provide the best result. One simply has to try them in his/her system.

I hope I made it clear that I am not saying that one device/approach/company is better than the other one. I also hope it is now clear that I am not trying to provide a solution - there isn't a general one. Like Dr. Lesurf, I have merely tried to provide logical arguments that show why some reviewers, manufacturer, sale persons and audiogoners make silly claims when the say that spikes actually isolate.

Nvp, you are wrong that Stillpoints and Star Sound Tech. use the same technology.

Tbg, please take the time to read and think at what I have written. Philosophy and technology are two very different things. Both products aim at draining out unwanted vibrations from the audio components - that is the common philosophy. The fact that ceramic balls and spikes represent different "technologies" is common sense. Nobody has claimed otherwise. In fact, I have made it very clear in the 2nd paragraph of my previous post that the approach used by the two companies is very different.