Great start !!!
Specific Pre-Amp advice
I would really like to get some help from the Forum. Late 2017 early 2018 I am getting a new pre-amp. My options to hear gear are low (common issue). Probably be buying blind which I have done in the past in conjunction with research. Here is the run down.
Budget: 2500 possibly pushed to 3k. Looking for used gear (pretty much ruling out new).
1. I am leaning heavily toward a tube pre.
2. I would like a remote but its not a deal breaker if it gets me better SQ
3. Line stage only. Don't really need a phono stage as I have a stand alone
4. It needs to be active.
5. Feeding SS amp with 100k input impedance
6. Primary used with Vinyl front end. Would like it to handle three sources. (Radio, Dac/CD and Input for TT)
7. 2 channel only no pass through needed or wanted.
8. Single Ended RCA Connection. My amp does not have true balance connections
Current System
VPI Prime
SS Aida Cart
MS Nova Phomoma
Exposure 17
Exposure Dual Reg 4
Vienna Acoustic Mozart Grands
I am looking to get more resolution. A more liquid sound. Bigger soundstage and get more of the recording space into my room.
My preference is for an open/transparent neutral sound slightly tipped to the warm side in the highs. Slight roll off maybe. I like a fast quick musical sound with tight quick bass. Not looking for tube romance or rounded bass. I absolutely would like to stay away from bright sounding gear. Also super etched is not to my thing. I fall in the musicality camp.
Any suggestions that would help me achieve this sound would be appreciated. These qualities defiantly take system matching into account. Pretty happy right now but I think I can do better.
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Well I was going to recommend a really good upgrade which is to get your ears professionally cleaned. Considering the unexpected turn of events and with considerable knowledge of this situation I would strongly recommend never cleaning your ears. Ever. Your marriage will benefit significantly. Just kidding. Congratualtions. |
Well I did a ton of research..... A lot of the pre-amps mentioned here were definitely on my list. I started at looking at having my Exposure amp re -done with new caps and transistors And actually I was also very torn about the Ultraverse. I was interested in the Don Sach preamps as well. Then I got a real good offer for VPI HW-17 record cleaner. Like a price I would never see again and no shipping. I was not thrilled about buying a record cleaner but I knew that it was something I really really needed so I jumped on it. Then I got sucked into a reel to reel project and now have a Pioneer 707 and Crown 700 sitting in my living room. Then the Fiancee landed a very good job and off to New York we go. Getting Married next May. So things have been crazy and I don't see myself moving into a new preamp till after the wedding and the move. Crazy turn of events but I still catch myself wanting to research but I am thinking in New York I will be able to listen to more gear than I had ever before. |
Darkstar didn't mean to scare you with that last post, although after reading that just now I think it might be time to check in for treatments or get back on my medication. Just curious what are you thinking. I must tell you that as a dealer, seems like years ago, I was totally smitten with the Ultraverve. It bested my sophia-electric LA 150 easily as well as my Art Audio. This is such a bargain I can't even begin to describe it. Best Jim |
foes Buying blind is not a mistake. I can attest to that. I got my last wife "blind" from Russian. She wasn't blind so no need to feel sorry for her. But I went to a Russian website and paid $$$$ for her, no blow up for me. So no mistake there. Actually she was my next to the last wife I had. Sometimes I get confused about them. |
I did hear the Don Sachs SP14 pre in my system mentioned earlier in this thread and it is the most open sounding pre I have ever heard. I would go to Don’s web site and also Audio Circle and read all of the reviews. He custom builds them for you and I’m told he is a great guy. I read somewhere in the reviews that someone compared the SP14 to I believe the ARC LS-25 Mk II pre mentioned above and they said it was no comparison. I have not heard Arc gear myself so can’t comment on the differences. Here’s a link, the great thing about buying from a small company owner is you don’t pay the at least 50% mark up the big names charge, so you get way better parts and custom products you just can’t get from the big guys. http://www.dsachsconsulting.com/custom%20line%20stage.html good luck with your purchase whatever you decide. Greg |
I am familiar with Ayre. My closest friend has the K-1x5 pre into 5 series amp. He has the Ayre Phono and VPI Classic with similar cart into Golden Ear Triton 1s. I respect it. I am trying to get that type off resolution and added smoothness. A little too rich and warm for my taste. I also like more typical SS bass. |
Still taking suggestions. Foey it may be a mistake but I have basically bought my whole system blind and at the right price. Its failed me 1 time and I sold the gear for a very small loss. 2nd I have made trips to San Francisco and tired to hear gear and was treated terribly. So I would Never schedule a trip to a dealer as they are hit or miss. I would do an audio show. Right now I am looking looking at: Lienaer Tube Audio MZ2 - 2. I would buy new with 15 day trial The other is not tubed. Seriously considering going with a Pass Labs XP-10 or just getting the INT 60 and hopefully calling it a day. |
Dark: I enjoyed my time with both the Modwright (LS100 and 36.5) and ARC (SP16, LS26) preamps but for me the Herron had a better mix of features and sonic attributes. The sound of the Herron is very clean yet musical. Not at all colored, sterile or smeared. It is the quietest linestage I've ever used, has some very useful features yet is very simple and reliable in operation. It never inserts itself but rather allows the essence of what makes music enjoyable to come through in a very emotionally engaging manner. With regard to the LTA equipment, I would not venture any type of comparison since I did not hear it in my own system/room. I am very reluctant to make any kind of specific claims about a piece of equipment unless I try it for an extended period of time in my own system/room or in a system/room with which I am very familiar. That said, the LTA gear has unique design characteristics that merit consideration and Mark and the folks at Urban HiFi are stand up gentlemen who are very passionate about bringing David Berning's work to a broader market. If you are serious, they may let you try a linestage at home so you can see for yourself how it sounds. Best.... |
The ARC gear I had was much warmer sounding than the ss pre's. The BAT I have is very neutral since changing interconnects to the amp (the mids were actually slightly forward with the cables I had been using for the ARC gear). I can understand how some describe BAT as warm since it never seems to "strain" regardless of volume (great headroom). |
I made the jump from solid state to tube pres with ARC gear (SP6B then LS17) years ago driving ss amplification. I liked the tube "laid back presentation" with silky highs but the mids were slightly masked and I lived with the low end bloom. The channel separation and resulting imaging was not what I was used to having had dual mono ss pre's (ML and Krell). Tube rolling improved the sound overall and it was fun to listen to (albeit with "euphonic coloration"). Last year I went out and listened to an LS25 and some of the latest ARC gear... I heard a friend's dual mono Balanced Audio Technology tube pre (with full access remote control) and bought it on the spot (VK-31SE can be found used for under $2K now). The pre offers balanced XLR and unbalanced RCA ins/outs. For me, it offers the most realistic sound I've heard yet with the best attributes of tubes/solid state combined to reproduce music for under $2K. The build quality is outstanding. The downside; this unit uses (4) 6H30 "super tubes" - sources are extremely limited so no tube rolling (and they're expensive). I'm told to expect five year tube life so the life cost is manageable. |
Dodgealum What great input. I know you can't exactly know where the Micro Z2s stands because you were not familiar with the room or system but please elaborate as much as you can or can take and educated guess on the differences between the sonic signatures between the Herron and the Mirco. Any input on sonic signatures/presentations styles and differences Between the Herron, Modwright, Arc and the Micro would be very helpful. I know not perfect but I am doubtfully there are to many here with the insight you have as you heard all of them. This is the exact info I was after and you are familiar with top choices including the ARC. Any info greatly appreciated. |
I concur with those extolling the Herron VTSP-3A. I have owned several preamps from ARC and Modwright and while each had virtues the Herron is a far superior linestage. Keith is a pleasure to deal with and builds intelligently designed, reliable equipment and then supports his products in the field with unmatched integrity. While Herron is perhaps better known for the VTPH-2 phono stage, the VTSP-3A is an equally spectacular find. I'm driving a solid state Modwright KWA-150SE with mine (50K input impedance) and together they always make great music. At a lower price point I would look into the Linear Tube Audio MicroZ2s. I heard this with the ZOTL40 at Urban HiFi a few months back and though the system and room were unfamiliar they made very good sound. Mark and his team at LTA are great folks and are producing innovative, world class Berning designs at real world prices. Definitely worth checking them out! |
Well I like the idea of the MicroZ-s 15 day trial Within budget new Remote Tube options Added benefit of Headphone amp Light Weight... could be moved upstairs for headphone listening easily I just was forced to pick up a clean Technics 1200mk2 due to a unbeatable craiglist price. Let me just say its way better than I even imaged it could be. Hell I could use it for a headphone setup by the bed after using down stairs in the main setup. |
+1 on the Linear Tube MicroZotl2. It is amazing sounding piece that sells for less than 2K!! My wife who is a professional musician actually noticed when it was in my system (on demo) About to pick up mine!I Put NOS. tunes in it and it is sublime. I have had the CJ Art3 and it is in that class. The Backert, the Heron, and the Modwright are all excellent. |
@darkstar1 Have you read about Backert Labs preamps? They are in your wheelhouse and if a smaller newer company is okay for you, their sound quality is pretty great. Tube rolling is easy, allowing you to adjust the forward/laidback perspective that you are interested in. I've heard them in about 5-6 systems and they have all been winners. Cheers, Spencer |
Yeah I am going with active. I don't really roll much gear. I think I am 3 pieces of gear from maintaining my system for a long time. Premamp, Record cleaner and possibly a phono pre. Yeah I agree I don't really want to take a chance on a fully passive amp. I don't like selling at all. So yeah I totally agree with you. I really am leaning towards a Used Modwright 36.5. I also like the idea of Herron or Aesthetix but it would be pushing my budget. I also have a rare dark horse pre that someone is selling now that I doubt will be there when I am ready to buy. I am fighting the urge to buy now but the would create a war zone of the home front and honestly it would be justified. |
If it were me, and i were wanting to improve on the same qualities you stated in your OP, and knowing that your speakers tend somewhat to the warm side, I would be looking for a newer all tube active preamp know to be neutral (as in not the classic warm sound). At your used budget there are many to consider. Like you I would have to do my homework prior to finding the 'one' |
Plangent technology uses (IIRC) the bias signal to remove wow & flutter on old tapes. Downloads of the hallowed Cornell show from the Betty board should be out soon, tho the discs are sold out. I've heard the better Rogue amps when auditioning 3.7i Maggie speakers and they sounded nice, tho I did not compare them with other amps. I have an ARC LS-25 Mk II pre with a Sunfire amp. I may audition the Benchmark amp to see if it sounds much better. I am likely to stay with a SS amp and tube pre - there is an entire thread on here about amps for Magneplanars (my speaker choice). I can post my short list form that thread if you want. LMK |
darkstar1 OPThat's a much higher input sensitivity than what your manual states at 1.2v. It's 50% higher. Cheers George |
Randy 11 Keeping up with GD release seems like a full time job. I love a lot of the Dicks Picks. I have a few orginals and several of the MOFI releases plus some bootleg shows off the board on vinyl. I have never heard of Plangent technology. Might need to check that out. My musical tastes are very diverse more so than many people. Ebm I know CJ used to have a romantic/rich house sound and then it was changed. Is CJ really slightly warm to neutral now? Just another brand I want to hear but have not. My speakers add a bit of warmth and bloom. Trying not to go to far with a good thing. Bpolleti You pretty much made me aware of Herron in the analog forum. Yes I am interested in their gear. I was in St. Louis and talked to the owner and even though he was located in St. Louis there was no place to here his gear. Same situation with Well Tempered. Disturbed with dynavector out of St. Louis but you have to drive a good ways into IL country to hear that table???? They do make is hard for you to audition gear. I just assume buy blind then chase products around the country. A year or two ago I was in Berkeley and literal could not get the salesman to play the Nova phono stage. He wanted me to buy blind in an empty store. So I just went ahead and bought one blind for half the cost here. I have no ideal what many dealers are thinking theses days. I know it was not a make or break sale but dear lord I was the only soul in the store. That is pure laziness. |
I will +1 on the Rogue Audio RP -5 piece. I only have the RP-1 but it is built on the same technology with less features. The RP-1 create nice space and air in my system civilized my class D amp. The RP-5 utilizes 12AU7 tubes. It also has a user configurable phono stage which is pretty cool ( maybe you current unit already has that). My RP-1 has been performing flawlessly for months now so I am really happy with it. I called Rogue before I bought the piece from my local dealer and chatted on the phone. Very nice helpful conversation. Lots of reviews on RP-5 out there as well. I primarily stream Deezer at redbook quality and also spin vinyl. Really love how Mofi vinyl sounds through the system. My next move will be upgrading to an MC cartridge to see how the Rogue controls that. Here is a quote from one of the reviews: "I did not hear any vintage “tubiness” through the RP-5 — especially in the bass; the piano’s lower register was spot on. The hybrid design keeps the low end fast and clean. For a combo preamp’s phono stage housed in a full-featured preamp, the Rogue RP-5’s phono circuit sure is worthy of separate status. " Here is the summary from Stereophile review on the RP-1 and again I agree totally with the "spacious" comment. " In summary However, the RP-1 was more effective than any of those classics at preserving a recording’s vital energies. I believe that the RP-1 is not necessarily a stepping stone on the way to something better: I see it as a fully worthy final destination. Compared to any preamplifier I know of at anywhere near its price, the RP-1 reaches deeper into the music to excavate a stronger, more precise, more spacious musical presentation. Most important, it delivers music that lives. Highly recommended." |
Modwright was on my list. The 36.5. Yeah the phono stage could and will be better someday but I need a preamp and a better record cleaner first. I also was trying to add the tubes in the pre and trying to keep the phono section with higher gain SS to reduce noise. I Have compared a 3k Sutherland to Nova and it really didn't impress me. Way on the warm side. Bass was to bloated. It did bring vocals a bit more out of the mix but I didn't see it as a upgrade as much a sideways change. Also heard Ayre phono stage. I honnestly think the Nova is pretty good for 500 bucks used. I actually think my pre-amp is the noise maker. It really is amazing for the price but compared to higher end stuff it does a have higher floor noise. Its also older and could use some maintenance. My amp has been recapped with high quality capps 3 or years ago. |
Darkstar, you might want to check out Manley Labs Jumbo Shrimp ($2500 used with remote $3800 new) would be an incredible addition to your system then you can get rid of that Nova for a Chinook( do your Prime justice) ,down the road (night and day difference). Talk about adding tubes! I use this front end and the results are sublime indeed. Also, I like the Modwright SWL 9.0 I heard they made a new updated one? The original sounds very nice. They make one of the best Phono stages as well. Matt M |
nordicnorm
Wow those like nice. I am not really into amps for looks but those look amazing. Starting to see a trend in my research and your suggestion for preamps based of the 6SN7 tubes. I also am looking for and upfront presentation. I prefer first 10 row vantage point. My speakers are laid back so I want to overcome it with gear that has a more forward prospective. With my current setup I have achieved this and would like to continue it. |