OP, are you still in the tread? If so, what are your current thoughts? just curious.
Speaker recomendation
I just bought a second home and the room where the new system will go is quite large (60’x20’) with a wall of windows. I’m looking for a pair of speakers that will be more for listening in position close to the system but that can still move enough air for when we have lots of people over. Budget is about $10-15K for an amp and speakers. I have a Moon 340i but fear it doesn’t have enough power to move the speakers I’ll get. I was thinking about Golden Ear reference but my wife and I are more classical and jazz listeners and these are better for rock? Suggestions appreciated!
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In my mind, there is one Who I know better. So I only recommended you for http://www.chartwellspeakers.com/ Here you can find Adventure Speakers, Keynote Speaker, Government and Political Speakers etc. |
No question. The problem with speaker is that they are soooo difficult to audition in teh home. Too big and bulky and it still takes time to dial them in. If you live near a dealer that you trust and like, then it can be done. That's why I get upset with dealers who don't care bout the acoustics of their rooms. All too many dealers who sell out of their homes, don't have dedicated rooms and their acoustics are just not great. Tons of excuses by some as to why they don't sound good, but everyone I speak with says the same thing. Of course some will say that's not the case, but in reality it is. I have also found store front dealers who's rooms sound terrible and many offer ultra high end gear. I am amazed by this since they can easily solve these problems with only a bit of work. |
Since my last post was removed, I'll repost. I'd go listen to as many speakers as you can of course. That's for anything you purchase as we all know. There are many different sounding speakers in this group. Go listen to some live music and then audition speakers. It's so much easier that way. Listen to YOUR ears and not what we all post. Focal, Vandersteen, Wilson, Legacy, Proac, Maggies, even Harbeth and Magico's could be on that list. Great tone will always shine through. Coherency will too. Sometimes the 'boring' audition is the best one over the long haul. If a speaker 'shines' in one area, then I'd be concerned as that can often be like buying teh 'brightest' TV on the shelf, only to realize that was a bad choice over time. Fatigue is strange as you may not hear it in a 30 minute session in a store, but over time at home, it will make you want to change cables, amps, sources adn then speakers again in two years. I'd also look at resale values over 3 years incase you aren't happy. I knew that I was going to upgrade after two years, so the Vandy's were an easy choice as they were SOOO easy to move onto another great home (Bob loves them and those who know me personally, realize that is important to me). We all espouse our speakers that we own or that some sell, but it's room and system dependent for sure. go find a dealer you can visit and listen. Sometimes you may want to change the whole system to get the sound that you love. I did this and continue to do so, but I have used a road map and budget that I set a few years ago, so it's not just willy nilly. JMHO and others do it differently. |
Quote:aalenik.."The Legacy Focus is a very nice-sounding loudspeaker. However, it is not in the same class as the Acoustic Zen Crescendo, which is an outstanding speaker and one of the few I covet. If your choice is between those two.... well, you should hear them both and make your own decision, but I think I've made my feelings clear. A better comparison would be the Crescendo vs. the Legacy Aeris. THAT would be a tough decision!" End Quote. I'm not sure why you feel Legacy Focus SE's are not in the same class as the Acoustic Zen Crescendo. In MHO (and everybody has an opinion) the Focus SE's are a much better speaker both sound, looks and value for the dollar then the Zen..and a comparison between the Aeris and the Zen would be unfair, it would be like taking a knife to a gun fight...The Aeris are THAT GOOD. |
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Wow, so I come on here to read another 'which speaker to buy' thread and see what folks are listening to. What a surprise, it has turned into another exhaustive Audio Troy is the Wizard in the Wizard of Oz promotional commercial. Highly informative. He does have a ton of gear in his home that he sells, but no dedicated rooms so there is that. I love Vandy's and they continually win best in show awards, but you still can't judge most gear at a show. Too many strange things going on there, including listening in a theater setting etc... It is what it is. Nice to go listen, but to make a lasting decision no that shows inexperience in listening and most knowledgeable folks would agree. You have been given some great choices by many to listen to. The key though is getting to audition somehow. We are all jaded by what we own and listen to daily. If we spend money on a piece of gear, we normally will come on here to tell yo about it. I know many of us have owned or do own the Vandy Treo's and love them for their timber, dynamics etc..., but I disagree with some points in this thread. This happens all the time in audio and I personally feel is a fallacy. If a speaker is designed properly, it will play ALL music and not just rock or small jazz or orchestral etc... If your speakers are only good on a few types of music folks, ..... you have THE WRONG SPEAKERS. We all like different things and I get that, but I promise you that my speakers play everyone well in MY room for MY ears (as well as all the others I invite over to listen). Many of you (I wish it was all) feel the same about your speakers. This is why I won't go with a speaker that isn't full range and I HATE speakers that are tipped up in the high end or overly ripe in the bass. I was a drummer and I hate bloated upper bass down, especially if it bleeds into the mids. No, I'm not making a recommendation, just pointing out that any speaker you get in the 8k range or so had better play all types of music properly to your ears as you have too many choices. I auditioned so many speakers before deciding on my Treo's and then upgraded to Quatro's, but not before auditioning even more speakers in the upper ranges down to the 5k range to make sure I was getting what I wanted for my well earned money. i'ms sure you will do the same and will look for YOUR posts in-between the dealer ads. Have fun with this and get out to audition. Many folks will let you come to their houses to listen to gear. I've been to many folks houses to audition as well as folks who sell out of their homes and that even includes Dave's house after he kept telling me that teh speakers I didn't like in a few stores, I'd like at his. (they still weren't good for me as they sounded the exact same as in other stores). Good luck. |
The ATC drivers are custom built and many believe them to be the best in existence as far as engineering goes (Harbeth, Magico, Vivid, and others may disagree). The sheer weight of the magnet is a shock. The weak point used to be the cabinets but they've been upgraded too. The main criticism now seems to be that they might be too good or too honest if you prefer. You may not like how some recordings actually sounded like in the studio as opposed how they were intended to sound like in the home. Upshot is that they are a must listen in this price range. |
shadorn@ i dont see you can sweeten anything, Bacheaudio made compromise , Semi Active Loudspeakers . Low bass 10 : and midbass *8" driver is both active , controlled by 2 separate class D Bash 300 and class AB with 4 orders Linkwitz-Riley electronic crossovers. But midds and highs from 700hz and up you can control by any external amps. Any SAT is good from 10Watts http://bacheaudio.com/bache-audio-002ab-loudspeakers-v2-stereotimes-com |
After reading a review of the current Dynaudio FocusXD and XEO line and that they offer, I feel I would be crazy not to consider actives for use in my home. Does anyone have an opinion based on their own listening experience about Dynaudio’s active line or other similarly priced speakers that are active? In this case, active ATC should be on your auditioning list. In active speakers it really doesn’t get any better than ATC. And the technical advantages to eliminating a passive crossover are significant. However, an active design is not as flexible (no choice of power amp) - so it is critical that the design is done right. ATC have been doing this for more than 30 years (time tested) and used by professionals globally as a reference (highly respected). These aren’t warm sounding (very neutral or clinical) but the mid range is captivating for vocals and everything else - regarded as an industry reference. You can sweeten the sound to your tastes with a tube preamp and choice of DAC - so you still have some flexibility. http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/client-list/ |
Igoler, I would also suggest Tannoy Prestige speakers as already suggested here, but i dont think it fits your budget. You may otherwise want to consider the new Legacy series with the Arden, bearing a full range DC driver of 15" that will produce ample and dynamic sound. In your budget, the best recommendation from my experience that I can make and often make in such forums is the XTZ Divine Alpha. It has power, smoothness, totally full range, balanced, very fine details, high end rivers, incredibly robust and beautiful construction, flexibility of tuning and also going active... it is a marvelous speaker in many ways but not well known in the US where such stuff is often not even looked at for reasons escaping my understanding (I am not from the US). Maybe the representation is not good. Anyway, I own high end and very high end gear, and can tell you this one is sadly missed by many audiophiles that dont even know their existence. As for amps, it is maybe a less personal equipment, so many could do fine, but going XTZ way requires some power. I would go for well preserved second hand amps to have better quality for your budget and still many years of enjoyment. Bryston 7B3 is a dream on them, or some Pass as well, or Benchmark AHB2, or Magtech... they are not fussy of amp nature, but just need some juice when you want to push! All the best |
There are a ton of speakers out there that charge a whole bunch of money for a box of nothin.... or very little. Legacy Signature, Focus or Aeris are all 3 excellent and would take care of that area quite well. Peter chimed in from PBN... I have studied Peter's designs and can tell you that he is beyond a competent designer, his speakers are well thought out, crossover slopes, phasing, time alignment, parts quality etc. I have zero reservation in recommending PBN. In fact, the 2 model below the model that Peter posted would also do a good job. PBN is certainly worth a phone call as well as Legacy. |
Steve you miss the point, of course we are saslesman, we run an active retail shop that is not the point. There are really two kinds of dealers, one that sticks to a particular brand year in and year out because they believe in that brand, and they may or may not be actively pursuing new and immerging brands, and other dealers that have a staple of products that they identify with and endorse, but who are also actively pursuing new products to be able to offer their clients, what they feel is the best possible performance for the price. In the last few years we added, ATC, Quad S and Z series dynamic loudspeakers, Elac, Legacy and Rethem to our longstanding brands Kef, Dali, Paradigm, and PSB. We moved into those brands because in each of their price ranges these products were bringing some unique attributes to the table. As per $15k being value shopping depends on your perspective, if a $15k speaker blows away a $25k one then it is a value. The man has a huge room which requires large high output speakers. You also miss the point that yes there are older good speakers like the Conincidents but where can the OP hear them? Many people do not like to buy and sell and pack and ship it is time consuming and not fun. Not to mention shipping large and heavy speakers is expensive and a complete pain, and you also forgot that sometimes older drivers are not availible and an older speaker may be diffiult to get serviced. Unless you are going really old most of the much less expensive speakers systems will not play loud enough to pressurize that size of room. Like it or not the Legacy’s Focus model is one of the few under $20k sets of speakers that will do the job, same thing with Tekton and Golden Ear which is why we mentioned all of those brands and other then Tekton you may be able to demo a Legacy and Golden Ear has many dealers. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
WOW, SOIX I feel you bro. I used to sell chevy but started selling ford because IMO they're a better value. Unless Dave and Troy really aren't salesmen and devote their time as a mission of mercy saving audiophiles from the perils of disenchantment <(whatever that means). I for 1 will probably never listen to legacy or tekton speakers after all the trouble those two brands have caused here. I may be missing the best sound in the world, don't care! just drop it. OP $15k for speakers is not value shopping! In fact $5k spent wisely might be enough. Coincident Super Eclipse towers are ancient but very efficient and for jazz will put you in the room! google Holm audio. I bought a pair of Salon2's used so if they didn't work in my room I could resell at minimal loss and for a few weeks I thought they were going to go, but the cardis website speaker placement page saved the day and I think these have a home here. Sonus Faber and Vienna Acoustics also do jazz exceptionally well. Legacy, VMPS, Golden ear, Tekton D all boast value for the money and deliver it which is why at $15k I would step away from the budget table and look around because there's soo many no compromise speakers at 5 figures to choose from and I love Dynaudio's sound but i've read others complain about the bass? sounds like a room issue to me but you won't know til they're in your room. If you can spread the speakers wide apart some used Raidho's would be on my short list, I find Kef to be a bit conservative in the bass for my taste unless you go all the way. I thought i'd dislike Wilson at Azpona but they, the Sasha and Wamm sounded really, really good. Buying speakers without an 'in home' audition is like throwing darts blindfolded and throwing more money at the speakers will probably make it worse as they will just be that much more finicky to get the best out of. Threads like this tend to go like this because we all prefer different things from our system and nobody likes to be wrong, especially in this hobby where mistakes can cost thousands. Good luck, audition as much as you can regardless of price, give yourself at least 6 months to decide and ENJOY. Steve |
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For what its worth, I just completed an extensive in home double blind a/b test of the Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers with RAAL against the Bowers and Wilkins 702 S2. My results can be seen in full on AVS forum. I chose the B and W in the end. For Jazz and all the B and W would really be good but sounds like your budget can accomodate something better than this 3-5K range. |
Soix why you are on to something. Actually the ATC SCM 100 would do it, however this pair is as old as the hills. The ATC actives play loud as hell they are used in recording studios. and the 100 sound pretty big, this pair would have 10 year old amplifers or older which are not as good as the current versions, also I think the current ATC SCM 100 ASL use an in house tweeter. However even considering the size of the woofer I don't think the 100's go that deep. Logoler should listen to the active Dynaudio's and see for himself. They are very nice loudspeakers. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
@Igoler Actives??? This oughtta gitt’er done... https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8i1h0-atc-scm-100aslt-full-range?refsource=hifishark These things poop active Dynaudios. |
@Igoler I’m truly sorry that this has sidetracked your thread, and no I have no desire to continue this argument. In fact, I hate that I have to do it but some things are just worth fighting for. You call it unrelated, but you’ve got 28 posts here so maybe it doesn’t mean as much to you as it does to many of us who have participated on and benefitted from this site for many years. But I do find it somewhat ironic you’re singling me out when I’m the one trying to preserve the integrity of this site while others seek to shamelessly turn it into a marketing vehicle for their own business. BTW, people recommend things they don’t or haven’t owned here all the time, and I have heard the Crescendos, like audiotroy, at shows and also in a friend’s system. I have no vested interest in whether you buy the Crescendos or not -- I was just trying to potentially help you by recommending something maybe you hadn’t thought of that sounded like it could meet all your stated needs. And I’m not defending the speakers as much as I am my ability to make honest recommendations here without some retailer coming in and undermining it to push his own products. If you don’t see the problem or danger in that, then maybe I was just wasting my (and other people’s) time here. Guess we’ll see. Anyway, best of luck in finding what you’re looking for. Peace out. |
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Igoler An active can play loud which is a good thing. The Dynaudio loudspeakers are excellent. You are pressurizing a very large room which requries large speakers. Go to a concert you will see a large stack of loudspeakers as you lose 3db output for every 12 feet of distance. In our opinion the Dynaudio is still not going to sound big enough for that space. Innovative Audio sells Dynaudio so you should be able to demo a pair. Gee Soix thanks for your coaching you seem out of date Absolute Sound reviewed the Zens in 2013 are they in the current recomended list now I dont think so. Again you miss our point where is the Op going to hear a pair? Last point if the companies cables werent competitive with Nordost or Wireworld and the AZ Addagio wasnt competive with the other speakers we sold dont you think we had valid points about the AZ line? Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
bumping my last question since my post was once again co-opted by bickering. My question was about active floorstanders, which I'll re-quote. "After reading a review of the current Dynaudio Focus XD 60 and XEO line, I would be crazy not to consider actives for use in my home. Does anyone have an opinion based on their own listening experience about Dynaudio's active line or other similarly priced speakers that are active?" |
@soix maybe you and Dave could agree to meet up and duke it out. I'm trying to get opinions on my post. You seem like you want to have a personal argument that I would call unrelated. Furthermore, does anyone on this thread really care anymore about your defense of the speakers you don't own? Jeez man. You must not work for a living with the amount of time you are spending on this argument. |
@audiotroy I unfortunately do not own Crescendos and I’m neither hurt nor offended, but thanks for your concern. They were, however, a TAS Top Pick in Loudspeakers over $10,000, right next to the Legacy Aeris BTW. So let’s get our alternative facts straight, shall we? "We mentioned that the AZ products were okay, not good not bad" Exactly! But what you’re also saying is that IN YOUR SUBJECTIVE OPINION they are inferior to what you are recommending here AND SELL!!! Why does this continue to not penetrate? This is not fact, but you using your own inherently biased opinion to belittle another recommendation in favor of one that YOU SELL. "What we said about the Zen products WE WERE DEALERS! So we actually have first hand knowlege of how their products sound and in all areas as well AS HOW THEY ACTUALLY COMPARE TO THE COMPETITION" But as you said previously, you didn’t carry the Crescendos and that your opinion of them was from hearing them at shows. Not sure how this makes you an expert on how they compare to the competition that -- what was that again? -- oh yes, YOU SELL. "So Soix, you think we are bashing them because we don’t sell their products you are wrong. WHAT MAKES OUR OPINIONS VALUABLE is actual experience." I never said you were bashing them, those were the words of the OP. Opinions are not facts no matter how much experience they’re based on, so using yours to marginalize other recommendations or products to influence others to make products YOU SELL sound better is dirty pool. Full stop. But yes, we can certainly agree that your opinions can be valuable -- especially for YOU. "Again answer the question if most people here had $25k to purchase a set of speakers, how many would be seeking out a set of Crecendo’s to audition, vs Wilson, Focal, Rockport, Paradigm, Martin Logan etc." That’s precisely why people come here to get supposedly honest and unbiased feedback. They don’t come here to have a biased retailer tell them a recommendation from another member is not worth $25k. Incidentally, my original recommendation was (and continues to be) for a nice demo pair of Crescendo mklls selling (on US Audio Mart) for about $12k because they are in his price range and seem to meet all his needs. . "If you think that we are China bashers we are not" Rrrrrriiiiiiiiight. I never said anything about China (or "Jighna" either). "Your comment on the Aeris being a contender for a shootout is valid from a price perspective but sonically, a well set up set of Focus come really close to the magic of a much more expensive set of speakers" Again, I never said anything about the Aeris. Another nice plug though. "Again ask yourself the question, if you were going to purchase at full retail would that product be on your radar, if the answer is yes, then we humbly beg for your forgiveness, if the answer is no for $25k that speaker wouldn’t be on my short list than lets see who is right?" The answer is yes, and apology accepted -- no begging necessary. We already know your short list since you keep pushing it here. It’s not about you or me being "right," which is just a stupid concept here. It’s about helping the OP make the best decision possible for his situation and tastes and not discouraging the exploration of other honest recommendations to your potential benefit. I’ll just leave with a bit of honest advice for YOU audiotroy. There’s no problem with you expressing your positive opinions about your products here (although it is quite tiresome), and if your products are really that good people will seek them out and buy them. But using your inherently biased opinions to further say less than positive things about other recommendations or products THAT YOU DON’T SELL is at the very least fishy and likely unethical (and it just looks bad bad BAD), and if you continue to do so you’ll get even more pushback here and possibly irreparably damage your reputation and credibility here. It sounds like you try hard to honestly help people at your shop, so don’t undermine that by unnecessarily shooting yourself in the foot here. Happy Friday all. |
Ebm issue with Magico I doubt they would be able to play loud enough to fill up such a big room add in 88db efficiency and the speaker is doomed to sound physically small in such a huge space. Sure you can augment with subs but that still doesnt change the fact that the A3 is a compact small sized Magico. Now for a more conventionally sized room you would have a contender. Hence our recommendations Golden Ear, Tektons or Legacy, used Kef Blades are awesome if you can find em. Our demo room is half the size 26 by 20 10 ft ceiling we can hit 105 db with a 300 watt amp with the Blades. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
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After reading a review of the current Dynaudio FocusXD and XEO line and that they offer, I feel I would be crazy not to consider actives for use in my home. Does anyone have an opinion based on their own listening experience about Dynaudio's active line or other similarly priced speakers that are active? |
Soix, you sound like just another hurt audiophile whose product missed the Absolute Sound or Stereophile’s recommended components list and is now offended. We mentioned that the AZ products were okay, not good not bad. sure there will always be some mention on some show or in a review of how good that product is. However, the point we were making is the market speaks volumes. Your Postitive Feedback mention was old from 2012 the current price of the speakers is $25k. What we said about the Zen products WE WERE DEALERS! So we actually have first hand knowlege of how their products sound and in all areas as well AS HOW THEY ACTUALLY COMPARE TO THE COMPETITION, the Zen’s were beaten as both a cable company and as a speaker vendor, which is WHY WE DON"T SELL THEM any more. So Soix, you think we are bashing them because we don’t sell their products you are wrong. WHAT MAKES OUR OPINIONS VALUABLE is actual experience. Sure you may think that never mentioning the areas where product x has issues, is classy, we don’t and if you are honest when compariing two or more products you will have an opinion, and guess what on doing a comparison you will weigh both products, in the good side and the bad side your opinion formed would be something, like I love the Mercedes x class, good fuel economy, great engine and styling, but compared to the BMW 5 series the BMW has a better engine, nearly as good styling, but has a bigger trunk and better fuel economy so even though I really like the Mercedes, I think ultimately I will go for the BMW. Soix this is how actually people make up their minds, strengths vs weakness on all products, and the one that is selected wins the most points. People learn about a product by comparision, and unfortunatly in this country it may be impossible to find someone who has experience with that product, and as mentioned AZ has a decent amount of dealers how many pairs of AZ speakers are actually available to listen to throughout the country? We are willing to bet there are very few AZ speaker dealers currently displaying speakers, also how many $25k 100% made in China speakers are currently actually selling in the market? You may ask what is the relevancy? If a product sells you may actually be able to audition it and not be flying or buying blindly, also this affects resale and your ability to ultimately move the product if you decide to. Again answer the question if most people here had $25k to purchase a set of speakers, how many would be seeking out a set of Crecendo’s to audition, vs Wilson, Focal, Rockport, Paradigm, Martin Logan etc. If you think that we are China bashers we are not, we had a good run with Usher loudspeakers which are also 100% made in China, the difference was that Usher makes 100% of their own parts in house and at the time whose speakers like the BE 10 were selling for a lot less then a compariable high end American made speaker. The BE 10 offered a Beryillium tweeter and Beryillium midrange driver plus an Eaton woofer in a 230lb cabinet for $14k that was for a brand new set of loudspeakers. No Soix we are not bashing AZ, as you seem to think we are disagreeing with your recommendation, that they are a great contender. We will say that the AZ will accomplish serveral of the requirements for a large space so sonically they would do the job and we can at least agree with you that in terms of filling up a large room they are both somewhat efficient and have good low bass capabliity however, are they worth that $25k that is the question or would possibly a pair of Legacy Focus do the job for brand new set of speakers for $11k? Your comment on the Aeris being a contender for a shootout is valid from a price perspective but sonically, a well set up set of Focus come really close to the magic of a much more expensive set of speakers. If you heard the sound that Legacy was getting at the NY Audio show you would have though the Focus was a $25k speaker not a $11k one. Again ask yourself the question, if you were going to purchase at full retail would that product be on your radar, if the answer is yes, then we humbly beg for your forgiveness, if the answer is no for $25k that speaker wouldn’t be on my short list than lets see who is right? Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
@Igoler "However, @soix was probably right to call Dave out for bashing his recommendation, maybe that wasn't cool, but I can also respect that Dave feels that the AZ's aren't offering as much value as what he's recommending." THIS IS PRECISELY THE CRUX OF THE PROBLEM HERE. I really don't mean to prolong this, but the main problem keeps getting swept aside under the guise of audiotroy's "advice." It's NOT that he's pushing his own brands, which as others noted he's free to do here (although I'll note he does it much more frequently and forcefully than any other manufacturers or retailers here). It's specifically that they also berate or marginalize other recommendations and/or competitive products. Whether it's altruistic or not is completely irrelevant. Look at your case right here: "but I can also respect that Dave feels that the AZ's aren't offering as much value as what he's recommending." BINGO. RIGHT THERE IS THE PROBLEM. When Dave is pushing his products here he shouldn't be sharing what he "FEELS" (or anything else for that matter) about another recommendation or product if he doesn't sell it. Look how he just potentially affected your perception of my recommendation versus the product HE SELLS. It's a pure conflict of interest. And in this case his "FEELINGS" were based on hearing the Crescendos in a show setting. What??? Tell you what, here's what a couple respected and veteran reviewers said of these speakers when auditioned in their own systems with their own equipment: Dick Olsher from Absolute Sound "The Crescendo comes about as close to being an ideal resistive load as one can expect from a box speaker. It’s the sort of dream load every pentode amp would appreciate. Acoustic Zen’s Robert Lee has crafted a magnificent transmission-line speaker, truly a perfectionist labor of love. The Crescendo is eminently musical and supremely well-integrated from top to bottom. It certainly pushed of all my emotional buttons and is currently my favorite box speaker under $30k. Make no mistake about it: The Crescendo is a fantastic value at its asking price. An enthusiastic five-star recommendation!" Or Dave Clark from Positive Feedback: "As a side note, the Crescendos did arrive with a complete set of measurements that are rather stunningly flat and overall quite excellent in all respects being very reminiscent of how the Tetons measure after the DEQX 'treatment'. Of which all points to Robert having done it right. The Crescendos are a speaker that will open a door to what is in your music. They are a true audio "tool" to not only hear and see how the music was recorded, but to realize what is going on in your system. They will reveal things about your music and system that you might not want to know—they are honest and pure. For the $16000 you get an amazingly well-thought and a beautiful loudspeaker (fit and finish are superb) that competes with other designs costing several times their more 'affordable' price. How Robert does it, I have no idea as these are a true assault in defining a full-range SOTA loudspeaker. I loved my short time with the speakers and found them a wonderful window into my music. Kudos to Robert and the AZ team." But then there's that DaveTroy "FEELS" the Crescendos aren't offering as much value as what he's recommending due to his hearing them at a couple audio shows. That'd be suspect enough as a response from any regular member, but that HE'S SELLING what he's recommending in these circumstances MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE HERE. Look at other reputable manufacturers and retailers here such as atmasphere, pbnaudio, audioconnection, and note how they NEVER, EVER, downplay another product or recommendation in favor of one of their own products despite undoubtedly having strong opinions. They know better. They have class. They respect the mission of this site and they do it right. So here's the thing -- that I at all felt the need to have to come back on here and defend and support my prior recommendation AGAINST THE WORDS OF A RETAILER pushing his own product while detracting from mine is what makes audiotroy's behavior detrimental and a serious threat to this site. (Your own statement shows that his words affected your opinion of my recommendation). They may try to cloak their sales tactics under the guise of providing "honest" opinions, but the damage is still being done. Last thought. Some people may still be willing to sweep audiotroy's tactics under the rug because they sometimes provide some seemingly unbiased information and help. But if they can continue to get away with criticizing and undermining other's recommendations here, what will this site become when other retailers start doing the same thing here? Will it still seem helpful then? It's a slippery slope, and I for one sincerely hope this stops here and now before it gets further out of hand and significantly undermines the usefulness and purpose of this site. Once again -- Peace out. |
And finally as a 2nd home owner where music is also hyper important, I purposefully ( and with a lot of guidance from my mentors ) set out on a somewhat different path than my main system. i chose one button iPad controlled streaming and NAS drive access for spouse and her family and sweet pure analog for me, trying to not duplicate TT rigs in two places.... everybody has a different flavor you seem like you are spending a lot of time thinking first :-) |
I thought I would post separate about Made in USA... again a bit of bias explained: for 35 years I made a living working for global corporations with customers and supply chains stretching the globe... indeed most of it at America’s largest exporter. Trained as an economist in the Chicago school I am pretty confident in a few basics... finding an American Made speaker , 100% neigh impossibe... in the case of Vandersteen, RV tries to source USA but he also sells globally, certainly a balance to be sought there...but in the end super high value finds a home in the product: SEAS drivers, Vishay and WIMA, cabinets built in house, Aerospace grade CF, veneer from HighTek, etc... anyway.... just something to consider... |
Igoler- well thank God and some of the sweeter words and notes have not put you off.... some thoughts.... again with my known bias... great sound at the 15’ mark is certainly doable - using Jim Smith setup rule of 83%, that would put your speakers about 12.5’ apart... you could get new Quattro with powered integral sub but as you say significant $ going into the cabinet - explaining the quarter million pair seller Vandersteen model 2 and 3, the $$$ goes into the sound not fancy veneers and a pretty cabinet. as Stringreen so aptly points out you could also get a pair of used 5a which come with IMO a world class subwoofer... and a switchable rear firing tweeter for when you want more room fill, 10% distortion but pleasing in the right situations.... glad you are having fun!!!!! |
