I now have about 100 hours on my Raven and fell i caan objectively give a review. First my system; my amps are Quicksilver V4's, my phonostsge is a Modwright PH 9.0 XLT, my preamp is the Raven, my turntable is a VPI HW19 mk4. the tonearm is a Woody Stringe Theory with a Soundsmith MIMC cartridge.
The addition of the Raven has provided an unbelievable sound stage.
The highs are great as is the midrange. Thee bass is much deeper and clearer than ever before. These were the major things I was looking for and got with the Raven>
I also have an Oppo 205 and it also performs with all the positive things I have listed.. To elaborate a little more I was very happy that the soundstage spread out over my listening area. The real plus is the bass improvement. II is tight and quick.
All in all it is very musical and very enjoyable which i can and have listened to for hours at a time. I will say at this time this is the last preamp I will ever buy. I hope this helps in your decision making procees.
Richard
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@fthompson251 No over basseness. (If that’s a word) Uncoloured. Feel no need to tube roll but naturally will someday.
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fthomsom251, you bring up a good point. When Don and I ditched the coupling capacitors, that pretty much got rid of the most obvious way of "tuning" the Raven. You see, nearly all coupling caps have a sound, one way or another. Get rid of them, there isn't much left to twiddle with. The interconnect might be about it.
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@donsachs I'll keep my eyes peeled and update if the opportunity is once more available. There are regular droughts with the supply of PC Triple C, when not paying the high premiums as a asking price that can be seen.
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@jc4659 Thank you for that reply. I may just get the stock tubes as I can use a little warmth and if not then get a set of Linlai tubes later to tube roll. Appreciated.
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@fthompson251 The Raven did not have this effect (more pronounced bass) in my system. I find its frequency range is well balanced top to bottom. I opted for the Linlai tube upgrade to slightly counter a warmer than neutral sound produced by my speakers and amp. I have been totally happy with the Raven and have had no issues with it at all.
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Do the sound characteristics of this preamp enhance or make bass more pronounced? I am not really looking for that. I want tonally neutral but with the tube holographic presentation they are known for and some midrange warmth or fullness. I just read a review of the Aric Audio Motherload XL and the bass description had me concerned. That one was on my list but I really don’t want to spend another $1000 and have wait longer to afford it. I certainly do not want any McIntosh type bass either. I have been saving for this since April 2024! Should have it by April 2025.
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@pindac Sadly, it appears that wire is out of stock..... Might be a fun experiment if some were available
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It is not a secret on the Gon, that I am an advocate of PC Triple C wire used in a Audio System. Today I have heard it used for nearly every role a Wire is to be used, In all the demonstrations had, the use of it has been impressive and without doubt a worthwhile exchange.
Big Brand names are onto it, and the wire as Bulk Purchase is becoming harder to find.
I have also been introducing others to PC Triple C wire, with the result being they have taken to it more intensively than my own practices, hence all the additional uses I have been introduced to.
In the early days of usage, I purchased a Power Cable at approx' £150 per metre length, and terminated it with Pure Copper Connectors. This same cable when introducing the wire to others was loaned out for extended periods.
The users of the Power Cable are by nature experimental, they also produce Audio Equipment as a Cottage Type Industry, where small quantities are the objective.
Comparisons took place as my loaned cable, prompted a few Brands of Cable to be purchased. 1mtr Lengths of Cables were purchased with a Top Value Cable being mine and others being close to £100 and less.
The surprise was, that a Power Cable near the lower end of price range was the one that most impressed across a few systems the Comparisons took place on.
As Power Chords are of interest in this thread, and I am sharing interest in this thread. The Link is the Power Chord with Pure Copper Connections the group of listeners took to the most.
https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/japan/en/special/order/confirm/audio9:10000582/2_1/
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@brbrock I got the Spatial Pre and Mono's. In itself I couldn't say the Ravin is the cat's PJ's as I'm thrilled with the whole system/room the Raven pre is the heart of.
I was able to compare the Spatial suite to 1.) a Lumin Amp w/ Lumin X1 and 2,) a Roger's KWM-88 MK2 Integrated Amplifier with the Lumin X1 and also a Grimm MU1/Weiss 501. Speakers are K horns and REL subs. Power is treated and ethernet is all cleaned up (After rack shows up, will update systems).
The Spatial suite using the Grimm MU1 is the best of the three. It's more musical and there's no listening fatigue. Nothing wrong with the others. May let Lumin stuff go but not the Rodgers.
(After warm up) I can turn up the volume and with nothing playing standing a half and inch away from a speaker I can't hear anything,
The Ravin is tops. If your speakers are efficient enough the Raven Pre and Blackbird Monos are synergistic masterpieces. There's a waiting list for a reason. I got more than I paid for. Happy camper!
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Just checking to see if anyone has any reviews on their newly purchased Raven preamp in their system.
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Hello Don,
Thank you very much for your advice.
I will ask David (Spatial Audio).
Regards.
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@phono2024
I stopped shipping cords with my builds as people always tossed the cheapo one and used something better, and I was tired of the waste. I suspect Spatial has the same policy, so you probably should enquire. I know Lampizator doesn't ship cords with their DACs. Honestly, any of the $50+ entry level "audiophile" cords will be far better than the cheap computer grade ones that come with most gear. It is the standard N American 3 prong male connector. I would just order some half decent cord. You don't need to go crazy. Many of us have a bit of a collection of them, so you may already have something to use in your stash.
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Hello Don and Lynn,
Thank you for your additional info regarding the Raven and Blackbirds.
I have placed an order for the Raven preamp, with Linlai 6SN7 tubes, cherry finish. It will be build in the next manufacturing cycle and delivery date is expected in November/December.
I am looking forward to listening to the Raven in my set-up. The Caladans is 93dB sensitivity into 4 ohms. I can only imagine it is very very good sounding, given all that has been said about it.
BTW, given that the Raven has such good noise rejection components, is it necessary to use audiophile grade power cord in place of the stock power cord that is supplied with it? Just curious.
Thanks.
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Kind of expected because:
1) the specialized damper diode rectifiers have very soft switching compared to solid-state diodes, thus much less 50/60 Hz switching noise radiated into the rest of the circuit and out the AC power cord
2) the regulated high voltage B+ power supplies have an astounding 130 dB of noise rejection from AC line noise
3) there is an another layer of VR-tube shunt regulation for the B+ power of each channel, good for about 20 to 30 dB of added isolation
4) All heaters are fed with 6.3 volts of regulated DC
5) last but not least, balanced operation of the 6SN7 circuit provides an additional 30 to 35 dB of noise and distortion rejection, without requiring feedback.
That’s why the Raven (and Blackbird) cost a bit more than other preamps and power amps. Each Blackbird power amp does all this rigamarole three times, with KT88 and 300B power tubes, which is why it’s priced where it is.
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@phono2024
sure, I am biased because I designed them, but in my system with 95 dB speakers,
the Raven and Blackbird combo is dead silent idling away. I can put my ear to any of the drivers on the speaker and barely tell the system is on. Hiss will not be an issue unless a tube is failing.
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wsrrsw,
I have been following this thread for a while and the reviews of the Raven and Blackbirds are very good or excellent. It will pair with Clayton's Caladan.
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@phono2024 Upon retiring and finally being able to put together a room/system (and after many years of research and trials) I knew I wanted 300B Mono blocks. The Blackbirds and Ravin are world class. If your speakers are efficient enough, then the Blackbird mono's have terrific synergy w/ the pre.
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wsrrsw and terrapin77,
Thank you.
That's assuring. That is one Raven for me.
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@phono2024 No hiss.
No hiss with past other units. (Macintosh 275, PrimaLuna, and Rogers High Fidelity) Way back a Fisher 400 did hiss, growl and bite.
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@phono2024 Perhaps you could share how other experiences had of 'Poking the Bee Hive' turned out for you.
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Hello,
Perhaps new owners of the Raven preamp can share this information?
Thanks.
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Hello,
It is known that tube amplifier hisses. Wonder if the Raven is dead silent?
Thanks.
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Hello,
It is known that tube amplifier hisses. Wonder if the Raven is dead silent?
Thanks.
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“I noticed today they raised the price from $5495 to $5895”
Damn. I was saving up to order one. It was really pricey for me before, now it’s just too much, I’m out. I guess I figure out what’s the second best choice. Oh well.
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Hi, Theophile!
I’ve written a lot of stuff over the last thirty years, both in print and many different Internet forums (going back to "rec.audio.high-end" in the days of the Arpanet). That’s when I was still at Tektronix in Beaverton, Oregon, and had access to lots of test equipment.
One thing to note is the first capacitor in a classical CR or CLC supply is not actually a filter, and making this cap too large can create very large current pulses in the power supply, which then radiate out through the power cord and into adjacent equipment. Big transistor amps with more than 40,000 uF in the power supply are the worst offenders here. A bridge rectifier can "snubbed" to smooth out the worst of the current pulses, but the snubbing circuits must be tuned for the exact brand of power transformer. A mistuned snubber will actually make the ringing worse, so it’s not a one-size-all solution.
As for pricing, Spatial is clearing a profit, but it’s not particularly large. Vacuum tube equipment is expensive to make compared to solid-state. Audio transformers are labor-intensive and the steels in the core are quite specialized and only made in small production runs. Vacuum tubes are not made by robots, but by experienced labor, in small production lots. Spatial uses hand-soldered point-to-point circuitry with exotic wire, instead of circuit boards, and switched-resistor volume controls are several times the price of conventional rotary controls. They are not made on a production line; one tech sits down and builds the whole thing, another checks his work, it goes on a burn-in rack, and gets thoroughly re-checked before final approval.
By contrast, the most expensive part in solid-state gear is often the custom-machined front panel and case, followed by the power transformer. Transistors range from a few cents to a few dollars, and op-amps are rarely more than ten dollars each. Circuit boards are not that expensive if you buy them in lots of a hundred or more. So the actual working circuitry is surprisingly cheap, often less than 5% to 10% of the retail price.
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I noticed today they raised the price from $5495 to $5895.
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Lynn,
Off topic. You once wrote in a blog page about rectification radio frequency noise being exacerbated by the tank circuit formed by the power supply. Or something to that effect.
I'd love it if you could start a thread on the topic and give us your further thoughts.
Apologies for interrupting the conversation.
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Spatial is ramping up production; the units going out now are part of the first production run. As they make more, production processes will be streamlined, along with parts ordering (this is typical of all manufacturing, not just Spatial).
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@fthompson251 Thanks for this information. I have a BAT VK-80 preamp on order, but it's been on backorder for 2 months now. Not sure I want to wait much longer and am looking at other options.
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I asked Spatial about the deposit, it is $2500 down, remainder at shipping. It was 5-6 weeks timeline then.
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@lynn_olson Obviously but I was asking people who recently ordered the preamp. Not looking for exact timelines.
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Good questions to ask Spatial, who are building the preamps (and the Blackbird power amps).
Spatial Audio Lab
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From the time of the order how long does it take to receive the Raven Preamp? Also is the credit card immediately charged the full amount if there is a backorder?
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Actually, I am very curious which phono preamps are a good match with the Raven. As mentioned earlier, the Raven sounds equally good with RCA or XLR inputs, so it caters to all kinds of phono preamps ... solid-state, vacuum tube, or hybrid.
Not going to touch the "which streamer is best" discussion ... there are other fora that go into that rabbit hole.
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@rav6258
Congradulation on your new preamp. I’m also 72.
It sounds like you are getting amazingly good sound out of that OPPO. It is great that you have such a large vinyl collection. But thinking ahead, you might think about streaming. You can get the same sound quality and not be confined to vinyl as getting up and changing records is not going to get easier. I’ve got 2,000 pristine albums which I never listen to any more. I now spend my time exploring new music. Just something to think about.
George
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Hello All,
I received my Raven preamp early last week and have about 20 hours listening to the unit. My CD player is an Oppo 205. I am not into cd's only having 250 - 300 cds. My favorite media is LP's having about 4150 of all genres. Unfortunately my phono stage (Modwright PH 9.0 XT) is out for repair. So I have been listening to nothing but CD's. And all I can say is wow. I can't wait to get my phono stage back so i can listen to LP's again.
The soundstage is wide and extremely clear. The instruments and voices are well separated and very musical, plus the sound stage is really deep. It is now very easy to listen to, no fatigue. The sound of cd's, for me anyway, is approaching LP quality. My whole system consist of the following: A VPI HW19 Mk IV with many modifications, tonearm is a Woody String Theory with a Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC cartridge, my DVD/CD Player is an OPPO 205, my phono stage is a Modwright PH 9.0 XT, my amps are V4 QuickSilver mono blocks. my speakers are Watt Puppy clones.
So, I am 72 and believe this is my final system it ticks all my boxes. It is not too pricey, it is very detailed and still extremely musical. Now I can concentrate on collecting LP's specifically jazz and classical. I think i will get many hours of pleasure from my system in the future. I will post a review on how the LP's sound when I get my phono stage back.
Richard
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No adjustments are necessary. The only requirement is the sections within the 6SN7 are internally matched, which is true for any good-quality tube. Each channel has its own 6SN7, and it is preferable the stereo pair are matched, although not essential.
(This is a roundabout way of saying don’t just use random pairs of old tubes pulled out of a junk box. The ones we ship with the Raven are the best modern tubes available. Before you try old-stock, make sure they are tested and known to be good.)
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Do these preamp tubes have auto biasing or do they have to be done manually?
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@jc4659 So glad the anticables worked out for you. Same setup I am running, with xlr from my Lampi Pacific 2 to the Raven and xlr to the Blackbirds from the Raven. I am going to get Paul to make me speaker cables eventually when I get around to it.
It is always a bit of a stretch recommending cables because we all have our taste. There are lots of very good cables in the world and people recommend them to me regularly. I just tell folks what I am using that works for me. I heard Paul's cables when Spatial used them in our demo in Seattle and I was impressed, so I bought some. The Raven is very transparent and will certainly show you what your cables sound like. I don't think Paul's cables really sound like anything, which is the best praise I can give anything. They are just transparent without any trace of brightness in my system. Glad they worked out for you.
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@lynn_olson I’m a believer! The Speltz level 5.3 XLR Anticables are very reasonably priced in my opinion and seem to be a perfect match for the Raven. Talking with Paul Speltz about his cables and pickleball among other things was a pleasure. Many thanks to Don for pointing me in the right direction.
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What you’re hearing is the Less Is More approach. A ultra-simple signal path, including the very straightforward cables.
Wires, a switched resistor volume control, transformers, and triodes.
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I have owned the Raven preamp now for about 6-7 weeks feeding a Pass X350.5 solid state amp. Compared to my previous solid state preamp, a quite capable Ayre K-1xe, the Raven was better at everything but mostly in the areas of soundstage depth, image stability, 3-dimensionality, focus, clarity and tonal colors. However, I suspected that I wasn't getting everything the Raven was capable of due to my interconnect cables which are a good value for their price but after having owned the much better Nordost Tyr 2 in the past, had certain limitations. At the suggestion of Don Sachs I ordered up the top level 5.3 XLR anti cables from Paul Speltz and had them cryo'ed and burned in for 150 hours. They are used between my DAC and Raven, and from the Raven to the Pass amp. Speaker cables are from Triode Wire Labs. OMG! The gains in clarity, transparency, speed, dynamics and image focus are off the charts. Vocals are so clear that I can now understand certain words that I used to have to struggle to understand. My system now sounds leaps and bounds better than ever. Even the wife agrees but don't tell her I have my eye on the Spatial Blackbird amps. With a daughter getting married in the fall those will have to wait a while.
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Hi
The Raven gain is about 13.9 dB (5X voltage gain). The RCA and XLR inputs have the same gain. The Khozmo volume control has a very nice log taper and you should have good adjustability in most systems. Not touchy.
I would run XLR from DAC to Raven if you can, but it is not required. It will generally sound better with most DACs. Also, if you ever change amplifiers you can run XLR out to an amp with balanced connections. The RCA output of the Raven will by definition have less gain. That said, there is plenty of gain to drive almost any amplifier. I believe Spatial has a return policy if it doesn't work in your system, but honestly, it will work well with most anything, single ended or balanced.
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Interesting thread. I recently demoed a budget preamp in my system and was surprised by how much more dynamic and alive it sounded compared to using the volume control from my dac. If there was any loss in resolution, I couldn’t hear it, and the improvements were dramatic, so I am now in the market. A couple of questions:
1) how much gain does the raven have, and is it the same balanced and single-minded? I don’t want to have so much gain that the volume control is touchy.
2) I’m currently using single engine connections from my dac to my amp. I’m going to need to buy a new set of interconnects. Any recommendations regarding whether I should stay single ended, run balance connections into the raven and single ended out, or sell my single interconnects and buy two balanced ones. I really like the iconoclast cables I have and they will add to the cost.
Thanks.
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UK is now linked to Mainland Europe with a Trainline one service for high speed Pedestrian Transportation and another to replace the use of a Ferry Crossing for Vehicles.
The idea of Plane to Paris is not the commonly used idea anymore, the Train is very popular.
The Ferry suits those with additional time and on a tighter budget to transport a Vehicle.
I was listening to a Tim de Paravicini designed 300b Power Amp' yesterday, was using E88CC Input Tubes and had undergone modifications to utilise Interstage Tranx's in the circuit.
Very enjoyable it was too as an experience.
The Pre Amp' was a DIY Built Pass design using a Khozmo VC.
I made all who were at the audition aware of this Thread and the other, the Raven is further spoken off within the UK.
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Imagine high speed levitating electric trains down the insterstate medians..... They would be far more efficient than planes for the 500 mile or less journey. They have trains that go 199 mph in Japan. Imagine just 120 mph..... a few hours and you are across a couple of states and you can walk around, go down to the club car for a beer, etc... Contrasted with spending 2 hours in airports on either side of a 90 minute flight in a tuna can. Sure, for cross country flights the plane is better, but for the 300 - 500 mile journey... I would love a train.
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Wash your hands often! Seriously, it's the single most effective way to ward off bugs from the mass transit petri dishes. Wish I still lived in Portland, I would have loved to meet you guys.
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