Soundsmith's turnaround time?

Ive sent in 3. Im very happy with the work and they took about 5 weeks.

I had a problem with my Soundsmith MMC2 with a loose cantilever. I sent it to him and had it back in about a month.

He charged me nothing although it was over a year out of warranty.

Never heard anything from them.

I FedEx-ed my Dynavector 20XL (damaged cantilver, replaced with ruby cantilever) to Soundsmith on 8-11-10. It was signed for on 8-16-10. I got a phone call from Michelle letting me know it was ready on 9-9-10. So 8-16-10 to 9-9-10 is a 3 week and 3 day turnaround time (including weekends and a holiday).

It took me six months to get my Lyra Clavis back from them. When I sent it in, the backlog was 12-14 weeks. I wasn't that concerned about the timeframe, but the lack of communication, or updates. I started getting concerned that my cart may have been lost, or some other misfortune. I was never contacted until the cartridge was finished.

However, getting it back and using it for the first time, it was well worth it.

Until there is an alternative, we'll live with it.

Note to Peter: Find someone who can make a few calls/emails a day. Let customers know how their stuff is doing.

Hi Raul,

Thank you for the email addresses.

Dear Vegasears: Nice to read that you are enjoying the MM/MI analog source alternative. Normally MM/MI cartridges are stylus removable, a good advantage between other things.

Other that the 2m Bkack you can try too the Nagaoka MP-50 and the Ortofon M20E Super that you can find NOS over the net.

regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

They took eight months to retip an Technics MC 310. After waiting all those months I emailed them and requested my cartridge be returned. The very next day I received a phone call telling me it was done. During the time the cartridge was gone I bought an Audio Technica AT-150MLX. I love the thing and it has a user replaceable stylus and I am current thinking about a Ortofon M2 Black which has the same feature.

Dear No_regrets: I have this email from the boss it self:

Peter@sound-smith.com and this other one:
craig@sound-smith.com

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

For some reason, my computer still won't let me get onto their website. I remeber they had a $250 option and a $350 option, but I can't remember what the differences are between the two.

Does anyone know what the differences are and if it would be worth going for the $350 option?

Thank you for your help and sharing any experiences that you might have.

Sent in a cartridge this past Wednesday and it should arrive I'm Peekskill by Monday. From that point, I was told the turn-around should be ten to twelve weeks. This sounded reasonable to me; I have other cartridges, and I'm willing to wait for craftsmanship.

Thank you Dan_ed for your assistance. It is greatly appreciated!

No Regrets

No_regrets,

Something is blocking the website. There seems to be wide-spread network issues since that McAfee fiasco. Then again, the Chinese Red Army may be playing wargames again. :-)

But, I got into a page from the website and found this at the bottom.

The Soundsmith
8 John Walsh Blvd.
Suite 417
Peekskill, NY 10566 USA
(914) 739-2885
FAX: (914) 739-5204
(800) 942-8009

Thank you Raul, Undertow, Dgarretson, and Dan_ed for all of your very thoughtful replies. You all have given me much to think about.

Does anyone happen to have either Soundsmith's phone number and/or email address that you could share with me. I just tried to get onto their website and for some reason, my computer isn't letting me. Unfortunately, I am not very computer savy.

Thanks to all for your help and sharing your thoughts with me.

No Regrets

To each his own. If you have no plans to change cartridges and want to get your cartridge fixed respectfully and for a great price, Soundsmith is an excellent service. You will still hear the characteristics of the cartridge and you just may even like what you hear even more. After all, that is what matters most. How YOU like it.

Dear No_regrets: +++++ " I wonder how this all would change if the cantiliever was changed from boron to ruby, and the stylus from eliptical to line contact? " +++++

well I can't say for sure IMHO no one can say it. What IMHO is for sure is that you will have a " different " cartridge with those mods.

+++++ " In summary, rather than what is better or worse, these stylus profiles were designed with different philosophies and priorities, and different styli may be preferred depending on what the cartridge designer wants to achieve for a specific model. " +++++

this was posted by J.Carr ( Lyra cartridge designer. ) in other thread and his point is very important: cartridge design is executed with the cartridge " parts " that can achieve the cartridge designer targets.
So if we change the stock/original cartridge build " parts " ( cantilever and stylus shape. ) then we are changing its quality performance. Btw, Dgarretson point out that with a line contact stylus shape we need additional care on the set up, if not what we gain is more distortions that normally we can hear it like a more high frequency false shine and brigtness.

Who can asure you that a different cantilever/stylus in that Benz Micro M0.9 cartridge motor works at its best. Undertow can say it? certainly not, only Benz Micro can.

What you posted as the cartridge quality performance tell me that that cartridge is really good overall. If you want to change that then IMHO maybe is better to buy a new and diffrent cartridge but seems to me that you are really satisfied with what you have on that cartridge.

A line contact stylus shape could give/change ( mainly ) the cartridge high frequency range, could this affect the cartridge tonal balance?, sure it can.

Now and along my audio experiences with 200+ different cartridges not always the line contact stylus shape cartridges shows better quality performance many times the cartridges with elipthical stylus are far better performers even in the same model cartridges where exist both stylus shape for the same cartridge.

In a cartridge design and in a cartridge quality performance IMHO the cantilever/stylus shape are important characteristics for the cartridge performance but there are other very important build/parts that contribute to the cartridge signature.

IMHO there are very low know how on the subject by the audio people and that's why you can read opinions/post like this: """ when my cartridge comeback from SS or VdH ( with a non VdH cartridge. ) performs better than ever, better than original """"

the majority of the time that re-tipped cartridge was not better but only different.

I posted that when I really like the cartridge quality performance always send it to fix it to the original designer/manufacturer if still exist.

This give us several advantages not only that the cartridge signature ( that's what I like/enjoy ) prevail but that that original cartridge manufacturer ( in your case Benz Micro. ) fix the cartridge where he do it with all the up-dates that that cartridge had over time and that only the original cartridge manufacturer knows. Many times the cartridge manufacturer makes changes/parts in the original cartridge design and even they don't tell to anybody but when we send our cartridge you can be sure that will return with the up-dates. This for me has an additional cartridge value and only the original cartridge manufacturer can do it.

A non original re-tipper has lower price to fix a cartridge but can't give us what is really important for us: to preserve what we like it and the cartridge up-dates.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

FWIW, Peter put his best "optimized line-contact diamond" on the stock boron cantilever of my Lyra Helikon. To the best of my recollection the cartridge sounds better than new. It looks quite different from the stock Lyra LC tip. However with this one you do need to take special care with azimuth.

No_regrets, you will have no regret going with a line contact. It is a superior way to read the groove so it just is over an eliptical is the point(literally), that has nothing to do with the original cartridge design or tone. Cheaper stylus, less efficient is still a cheaper stylus and less efficient in your original, it will just make the details of your cartridge and its true potential come that much closer putting the better stylus on it, change the sound, almost likely no matter what to the up side if anything.

Don't worry about it trust me, go with the better line contact, the 250 version is fine and will NOT be a negative effect over the original that much is for sure in most cartridges, but making a miracle or sounding a whole lot better is not guaranteed either.

Don't worry about the downside is the point, there will not be one from everybody that has had the soundsmith treatment I am sure will tell you over and over. If this risk was built into a 2500 dollar investment getting a retip vs. a 250 then you might want to second guess, and the original at a cheaper price would be fine, but get the better stylus no doubt in this case.

Hello Raul,

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, I do like how the Benz MO.9 sounded when it was new very much. However, I notice that the newer wood bodied Benz's have switched to the line contact stylus instead of the eliptical stylus. I'm sure that this has changed the sound, but does that really mean it's better? I don't know.

I understand that switching to the Ruby cantiliever and line contact stylus would change the sound from how it originally was, but I do not know how it would change. Do you have any idea of how the character of the sound would change? What it's sonic attributes may be?

In stock form, I felt that the cartridge sounded very balanced from top to bottom, not highlighting any one area of the frequency. It had detail, but not "hyper-detail". It had warmth, but not bloated. It's dynamics sounded natural to me, not exagerated. I wonder how this all would change if the cantiliever was changed from boron to ruby, and the stylus from eliptical to line contact?

I guess if there is no way of knowing, then to be safe I should ask Soundsmith to retip as close to the original as possible, as you have suggested.

Thank you for your comments.
No Regrets

Dear No_regrets: That depend of what you want. Do you like the MO.9 stock signature sound?, if yes then ask Soundsmith for a re-tipping the nearest to original cartridge status.

A change in cantilever build material and/or stylus shape means a different cartridge than the original/stock one.

When for any reason I don't send the cartridge to be fix it by the original manufacturer/designer and make/made it through Soundsmith or through VdH I ask always to be as near is possible to stock/original cartridge status. Other people likes to change that cartridge status.

So, what do you want?, your call.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

I've got an older wood bodied Benz called the MO.9 It has a boron cantiliever and a nude elliptical stylus. I'd like to send it to Soundsmith to be refurbished but not sure of which service to use.

Do you think I should stay with the elliptical or go with one of the line contacts? I don't mind paying either the $250 or $350 fee if it means it will be substantially better.

Any recommendations?

This will be mounted on a Naim ARO tone arm, in case that matters at all.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me.

Don't forget, Raul, I'm a mere 250 miles from Soundsmith. :-)

Dear Dan_end: +++++ " But then there is that added shipping cost, " +++++

I ask VdH ship my cartridges by registered air mail service and this shipping service cost to México ( higher than USA ) around 23.00.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

A lot of folks in the UK use Expert Stylus. Most seem to indicate they do a fine job; there's a lot of testimony over at pink fish media. Alas, I don't think they have a website.

Expert Stylus Company
PO Box 3
Ashtead
Surrey
KT21 2QD

Tel: 01372 276 604
Fax: 01372 276 147

Correction.I meant to day " you are not making apple to apple comparison..." with my earlier post.

04-19-10: Ebm
I only upgrade my cardridge when its time no retip . I guess thats the only company.

You are making an apple to apple comparison with your earlier derogatory comment. Soundsmith helps to revive many current and some old wonderful much cherished cartridges like Grace F9, B&O, etc and all this for a real world price. The company is an real asset for many vinylphiles at home and abroaad.

How is this comparable to you sending your Transfiguration Orpheus to your dealer/importer for a replacement/refreshment/retip or whatever..

Thanks Raul. I did know about VdH. But then there is that added shipping cost, etc. ;-) Fortunately, I don't need such service as often as you most likely do since I only have 3 carts, so a few weeks doesn't matter to me.

Dear Dan_end: +++++ " However, if there is another cartridge repair service of excellent quality available it would be good to know. " +++++

I already try with two different cartridge repair sources, Soundsmith and VdH.

Soundsmith fixed two of my cartridges and other that the time he takes about the job in both cartridges were fine.

In the past I use VdH repair cartridge service with several LOMC cartridges: four times the Colibri, Koetsu Onyx, Goldbug, Highphonic, Ortofon, etc, etc. Every time with fine/first rate quality job and every time fixed job in no more than a week.

In the last year I send to VdH around 10 MM/MI cartridges with the same time response and with the same first rate quality job. I never had any single problem with VdH.

I'm an advocate/support the profesional VdH great skills/tools and responsability about.

Well, another option as you ask.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.

Now you have me bewildered. Perhaps there is a language barrier at play?

4/18

I always get my cartdridge retip Transfiguration Orpheus through

4/19

I only upgrade my cardridge when its time no retip

Smoffatt, Peter is involved in a charity organization:

Direct Grace
If he will not accept payment in the case of failure, I'm sure a donation to the charity would be much appreciated.

BTW - the recordings available for purchase are well recorded and quite enjoyable.

I only upgrade my cardridge when its time no retip . I guess thats the only company.

Ebm, does Profundo do cartridge repairs? I don't see any mention of that service on their website? Could it be that you are trading in your cartridge for a rebuilt one? There is nothing wrong with that, most cartridge makers work that way. However, if there is another cartridge repair service of excellent quality available it would be good to know. It appears from the website that they only carry one cartridge.

Update, today is Sunday and Peter called me at home around noon. I had left a message Saturday to call me but he had a charity tuner/turntable set up day. He did send me an email though.

Long story short, he explained in length the challenges he's had with the 2 cartridges i have sent him. Badly damaged and flawed right from the manufacturer (one of them). We have agreed on a couple of options for both and he will proceed. Should hear back from him in a week or so.

I insisted that i wanted to pay for his time in the event that both can not get repaired. He insisted that per his policy, if he fails during the repair process, nothing is charged to the customer but appreciated the fact that i wanted to pay him. I think i will still send him a check if all fails. The guy is behind the microscope on a Sunday afternoon. WOW!!!!

I always get my cartdridge retip Transfiguration Orpheus through Bob Clark of Profundo. I get it back in a few weeks. Great service!!

I'm curious about Ebm's comment. Please care to elaborate a bit more.

I'm also curious Ebm....What do you mean "real company"??

Thanks Tjnif. Ok, Ebm. I'll bite. What's a real company, in your opinion?

dan_ed, as soon as my new Graham phantom armwand arrives I will mount and let you know. Right now I'm Enjoyng my Van Den Hull Colibri XGP, stellar cartridge right out of the box!

Wake up get a real company!!

Well said, l2red! Tknif, Peter fixed my XV1s a few years back. Please post back on your thoughts of how it performs and how you think it has changed. TIA

My amp and preamp took nine months to complete after an original estimate of six-eight weeks at Soundsmith.The resulting sound of the equipment is fantastic.The staff is not just a staff,it's more like a club of enthusiasts and curators.Peter is a hi-fi legend and very generous of spirit.He befriended my son and entertained him with a demonstration of tricks he has trained his dog to do.Then he gave us a tour of his showroom,dispite the fact that he was hosting an industry luncheon.We audio enthusiasts(spoiled children)are not buying mass produced products.We are purchasing limited production,mostly handmade,gizmos that are very specialized.We should be a bit more patient and Soundsmith should provide a little more realistic turnaround time and we'll all meet in the middle and enjoy the experience.

I sent out my Dynavector XV1S to soundsmith in mid February for his $350 replacement "needle" (mine was broken off right at the base, amazingly my wife and kids DON"T KNOW how it happened.....I guess it was magic....) anyway..., They said the turnaround time was in 12 to 14 weeks, Recieved AS STATED April 12th!! THANK YOU SOUNDSMITH!!!

I have had many dealings with Peter and yes, things do sometimes take longer then expected, which is a good thing.

Soundsmith does not have an assembly line of low paid workers toiling away, it’s not a company run by bean counters looking to squeak out every ounce of profit from a limited range of products and services. It’s a company run by a man with real passion for what he does and the industry.

Peter contributes more to furthering truth and understanding in an industry full of snake oil then anyone I’ve met.

Try calling Koetsu and asking for the head designer!

in my humble opinion this is certainly one of the most interesting and perspective-giving threads I have read on Audiogon thus far. Thank you everyone,

:) listening,

Ed

Thanks Peter. Your time is very valuable and i would not want you to spend additional time on cartridges that are not repairable. Those 2 cartridges were actually sent from Canada not England. I was not aware of the problem you have encountered with UPS on duties. There should be no duties between Canada and the USA under The North American Free Trade Agreement. I can understand duties if they had come to you from England. I am somewhat puzzled by this.

Whatever time you have invested in those 2 cartridges is valuable to you and me and i will pay for your time whether they are repairable or not. I do not expect you to do all this investigative work for free and no one should. Just let me know how much i owe you.

Note: Those 2 cartridges had been purchased "used" here on Audiogon as i did not have the means to purchase new. Never again will i do this. Live and learn!!!
Thanks again......

Peter,
I have to say I appreciate your time, experience, and pricing! Like I stated above(more or less in nicer words) many get caught up in these very expensive exotic carts. that ultimately many of us know they are in no way better or worse than one at 200 bucks in some cases(not all), and is exactly why you will continue getting many trying to give you a shot hoping to find that perfect deal and save them time and money.

This is exactly why many of these carts are only worth a "500.00 credit" from the manufacture but originally costs 5000! That has to tell somebody something when they get that deep into this hobby.

And by the way you should not feel to much guilt over this, fact of the matter these people took a shot, so A) they keep a cart. that is garbage anyway, no way to move forward, or B) they give you a shot and hope within the year they save it, and save them a lot of money. Your service is a difficult position to be in I am sure. Not saying this is an excuse for communication problems, separate issue.

Thank you for your responses and good luck with future business.

It is now Monday morning,and I have looked into Mr. Moffitt's cartridge issues. It was delayed due to:

1) The manner in which he sent it from England caused us to pay import duties for these two high end cartridges. They were held by UPS while we fought with them over this issue, which was never resolved. We finally had to pay to receive them.

2) One had been worked on by VDH, and has serious issues - I cannot tell when the serious damage to the suspension occurred. Repair is risky; it may fail completely during the attempt, at which point I do not get paid anything.
3) The other cartridge has some very serious manufacturing flaws. VERY serious. Then it was damaged by the customer. I have repaired the customer damage aspect, but need to see if there is a simpler way to resolve the GLARING manufacturing error. This cartridge NEVER worked properly, and it is a very, very high end cartridge.

As these were both seriously damaged and flawed units, I bypassed them to think about new ways of resolving their issues BEFORE contacting Mr. Moffatt above. I will now contact him with the rather limited possbilities. It may well be that I will lose all the time I have into BOTH these cartrdiges, and even more time lost if I attempt and fail.

I am constantly stretched between stopping what I am doing at the microscope and contacting customers. If I interrupted myself more, my throughput would be far less, and my rates would go up. Also, like your doctor, I might be forced to charge you whether I succeed or not.

I do stop from time to time, sit at my desk and make a series of calls. That is the most efficient way to work for me at this time. What I *should* put on our retipping/rebuilding page is that if you don't hear from me in the allotted time frame, your cartridge has more serious propblems than normally found, and I am trying to either be creative about how to rebuild it with new techniques for less cost to you, or find a VERY quiet evening to spend on it without interruption.

Unlike my verbal responses, I often fix tough problems by first thinking extensively.

Peter Ledermann/Soundsmith

I sent in mine in May 2009 and I didn’t get it back till mid-Dec 2009 (Christmas present?); after listening to it for few hours, all my frustration and discomfit has varnished.

Peter Ledermann is one of the good guys in the industry. He is helpful and generous with his knowledge and his re-tipping service is extremely competitively priced. Remember too that if your cart is unrepairable there is no charge made for his time spent investigating/working on it. I don't think you can get a fairer deal than that.

From my experience Soundsmith operate a first-in first out system where carts are held in line and worked on in order. With one pair of hands and eyes the time before your cart gets looked at can vary depending on what else has come in before yours.

Some of you guys need to get real - no business is going to turn work away when the economy is like it is right now. And as others have said, all the other companies that do rebuilds are no faster but are more expensive. You've just got to accept that this is highly specialized work and you can't just go out and hire temporary help to increase throughput.

I had Peter retip a Shelter 901 and a Phase Tech P3-G recently. Wait time was 16 weeks, which was a few weeks more than I was initially quoted, but I didn't mind. The work is wonderful. The Phase Tech sounds better than factory and tracks *much* better. I'm enjoying it so much I haven't even mounted the Shelter yet!

What about the possibility of simply not accepting any more cartridges until the current backlog is taken care of?

Many musical instrument makers have to do this, for one example.