Ok for starters I have never tried a solid core Speaker cable until recently. I was very skeptical of the solids performance but I'm glad I tried it. As a matter of fact I tried it and found it to be the best cable I have ever used to date. After much searching, getting opinions from fellow audio enthusiasts and trial and error I happened upon a seller here on Audiogon, JW Audio who offered a 30 day in home trial period with full money returned, no questions asked and took a shot in the dark. That shot hit the bullseye dead center. After receiving the Cryo Nova 12 foot long cables, I was somewhat stunned when I seen the cable, it was nothing like I expected but I connected it anyway. Holy S....t did it make an immediate difference and it keeps getting better. My entire system (Krell) opened up like peeling the skin off a banana. Highs, lows, detail, soundstage, depth, clarity and details that I was missing were revealed. ( and I thought what I had was really outstanding )
Which brings me to the point of this thread. Not knowing what makes a solid core or a stranded speaker cable more desirable aside from the obvious flexibility issues I'm curious to know what my fellow audiocrazies use and why they prefer one over the other or if they even tried both. Anyone willing to give up their opinions on the pros and cons of solid versus stranded speaker cable? I will start that I am a convert to at least this particular solid core speaker wire and unless someone can better it with the 30 day free trial period I do believe it is here to stay.
I experimented with different kinds of loudspeaker cables, and I found out that copper loudspeaker cable can degrade over time. When I bought Supra Quadrax loudspeaker cable (which are tin plated copper wires) gave for me the best most neutral souding audio quality. Copper always sounded a bit warm for me, Supra Tin plated loudspeaker cableswere the best choice for me.
Later I experimented with using solid copper coax cables for making my own interconnect cables, I made a set of 50cm interconnects for my father audio set, and the quality was impressive, solid wire seems to give the music more foundation, the music sounded more solid, better bass definition, and still de details were very present. the cables are more fragile because of the solid stiff core, but I can recommended Audiophiles to experiment with it, the shielding of the coax cable is a bonus, and the price is with 1 dollar a meter a bargain
After recently acquiring a pair of Von Schweikert VR 22 speakers, I am thinking of going back to solid core copper cables as I believe they will work well. In the past I've been very pleased with JW Audio and DNM. I currently have a pair of JW speaker cables in the closet but the new VS speakers accept biwires so I need jumpers but I think JW Audio is no longer in business. Plus, the JW are too long so the stiffness makes them very difficult to "tuck away" excess.
I have removed almost all stranded wire from my system. For the most part, it’s solid core copper with cotton dielectric. Stranded has a certain sound to it possibly due to strand jumping. The signal may arrive more smeared than compared to solid core since multiple paths exists for the signal to travel down. One of my first experiences with speaker cables was switching from stranded to solid core and being utterly amazed at what happens to the treble. Holy detail, Batman!
chrisr , Usualy manufacturer use the same gauge for internal speaker cable. Some use stranded 12 gauge. Which one would be best solid or strand ? And which gauge would you suggest for a three way speaker.
I read that hardcore engineers and audiophiles agree on the fact that the best gauge to use is between 10 and 14awg for the least amount of resistance. Also because most current tend to flow at the surface of a wire, multi strands are preferable because they offer more surfaces than solid core. And it is more flexible!
chrisr , Usualy manufacturer use the same gauge for internal speaker cable. Some use stranded 12 gauge. Which one would be best solid or strand ? And which gauge would you suggest for a three way speaker.
Luv my homemade 12 gauge solid core copper wire speaker cables - now in the freezer after the forum topic/discussion and the info from geoffkait. They sound great now - reevaluation to follow in a week or so...
@davekayc I believe that speaker wires should be twisted. Twisting reduces inductance (important) and increases capacitance (not important). It is a great way to reduce electrical noise pickup, from electromagnetic and electric fields. Twisting might be a little more difficult with stranded wires.
I wonder if stranded wire is more susceptible to interference ? As noted before the little micro lightning bolts in the skin effect would have a much lesser similarity to an electron tube . Where a solid core has its own path of least resistance like a horse with blinders on.
and I was amazed at the sound impovement when I hooked 'um up... I actually found a further improvement when I tried the wires without connectors - I found further clarity in using a bare wire connection! I am considering sending my home-made speaker cables out to have them cryo-treated (should be about $100 or so including shipping back and forth) or (as I stated above) doing the JW bi-wire without connectors for about $160...
gillatgh: I am considering trying/using the JW wire after your origional comment/recommendation. Presently - I have made my own, twisting 12g solid core copper wire strands together: 4 strands per side (to individually bi-wire
This is a great thread, and a very good time for me to stumble on it. I have been into this hobby for 50 years, and of all the aspects of it, my favorite is cables. Interconnects, speaker cables and to a much lesser extent power cords. I have gone from zip cords, to monsters, AC, Tara labs, Purist Audio, and many more i can't remember, not to mention the home brews.
I never paid any attention to the solid core or stranded aspect until about ten years ago when I bought a set of Gallo Acoustics Micros for a small system. I noticed they came with their own 18g solid core speaker wires that was the recommended wires to use. I found this very interesting, as I had never seen a simple solid core wire used for speaker wire before, much less recommended by a manufacturer. So I decided to try it in my other systems, and like others have said, a fog was lifted. Since that I have stuck with mostly solid core speaker cables, I have used AQ Rocket 88, then to Tara Labs RSC Prime cables for the past couple years witch I find really nice, very open, detailed and well balanced. The AQ was ok, but much darker and heavier in the bass.
I tried some 12g magnet wire in biwire config, it was good but just too hard to manage. I also have solid core and stranded interconnects witch I swap out from time to time, but I fine that speaker cables make a bigger difference. Sometimes I just feel like giving my old Monster Reference 2s a try with a different amp or preamp. For the past few months I been on this Kimber trial again, but this time with the cheaper stuff. I have had Monocles and Heroes, but I have never tried PBJ or 8TC, so I started with the PBJ, from source to amp. Really nice for such a simple basic clean design. Now , last week I saw Kimber place a demo pair of 8ft, 8TC on Ebay at a great price and I just had to try them. I am still burning them in some more, they are not solid core, but they do sound nice so far. This is what makes this hobby fun.
I recently decided to replace my Rocket 33 bi-wire cables with single wire just to see the difference between single and bi-wire with my Klipsch Heresy IIIs...already owned an excellent pair of Type 8 single wire, and the 8s sound better so they're staying. Note for Kaitty, AQ power cables are solid core.
I'm happily using SSB AIRCOM PLUS coaxial cables as speaker wires (2 each, just the core connected), but "someone" told me that OCCs are - mutch ? - better than OFCs... Since I LOVE coax geometry in audio field, does anyone knows
thick OCC coax cables ? Thanks in advice !
For those of you who like solid core wire, try 14g Romex. Really! Tie the center ground wire to the black and connect those to your speaker black terminal. Connect the white wire to the speaker red terminal. Romex cable is designed so that the fields of the white and black wire don't interact. It's a cheap experiment.
The key to my experience with solid core conductors are several factors for instance , I use the purest occ-0 Crystal Copper much less grain structure in the metal higher purity, 2. - dielectric thin Teflon is the closest to air which would’ve the best dielectric , multiples of Individually wrapped conductors. in my case 8-21awg Teflon- occ Copper strands which = a awg 12 per legg , twisted together then tinned with a top Cardas ,WBT,Mundorf ,or Johnson’s 5% Silver solder crimp then done . and use High purity Gold over high purity Copper, or Silver, mo brass many cheaper bananas ,and spades use brass which defeats all your hard work it is 4x less conductive then Copper. follow these guide lines and enjoy the musical results.
don’t be offendedbut sound is a very subjective thingwhy the obsession with objectifying itorhow something sounds depends on the subject, the situationwhy go for one specificif you guys have a preferred type of cable, you surely have a preferred setting for everything elsewhy does that need to be so?i’m not like that, i don’t understand it, for me sound can make an experiance better, like music that fits the mood, because at that moment in time and space, it harmonises with the rest that specific sound to me is the perfect sound then and there i think i can’t force that by looking for the "best" this or that equipment/setting so i don’t bother at all **** happens...or not mail me if you have something to say
Here's a link to Tempo Electric : Pure Silver Cables. Just scroll down a bit to see the chart. I've seen this chart on other sites as well (but they don't come to mind).
Is there a relationship of size (of wire used) and the distance to the speaker from the amplifier, the "size" of the speakers, (badly put but) from big floor standers that require a lot to be driven, to satellite type speakers?
I have 2 systems in the music/HT room. They are independent of each other except for power (coming from the same mains breaker source) and the ethernet hardwire.
The HT has 7.2.4 configuration fed from an Anthem AV60 to 2x525 and 1x325 amps (13 channels). There are obviously different lengths of cable feeding different sizes of speaker.
My music system is stereo only and is a different matter.
I fund some inexpensive (relatively, certainly not cheap) but new 10' Rocket 33s (33s are the ones Uncle Bill recommended) on Ebay...double biwire on the speaker end, nice bananas, and a really great sounding cable. I understand people like the more pricey 44s and 88s but meh...these are great! I'm also having great results from Morrow cables...1s and 1.1s...made with simply less runs of the same stuff they put in more costly cables, and again, a great sound (replaced some AQ ICs), and a very quiet cable.
I started using Audioquest speaker cables back when they were stranded (!), and those looked sort of like Kimber cables do now (late 80s I think, and I still have those in my basement Cable Museum). That was the first time I'd actually heard speaker cables sound better than whatever I was using before those. I ran into Bill Low last year at an audio shop nearby and asked him about using a set of Type 8s I have as a simple biwire solution, and he suggested some Rockets and explained why...bought the Rockets, he was right.
@digiman14. I am so with you. I used 14 gauge solid core mains Romex as speaker wire and it saw off Clear Day solid silver wire among others which sounded muted by comparison. I have since splashed out on $20 per foot pair 14 gauge OCC copper wire in Teflon which brings a snap into focus quality to the music along with more detail, insight and sweetness.
I saw it mentioned about gauge vs skin effect in signal cables. Our 2 sets of signal wires are solid core silver 10 gauge, all I can say is no skin effect.
I also remember reading a few years back that skin effect does not come into play until a certain footage comes into play, I think it was somewhere between 15-20 feet.
Then AQ is using the term more as a marketing technique for employing cable strands of various gauges in their higher end speaker cables implying that in doing so, the varying gauges will more effectively propagate signals of different frequencies.
They are not invoking the true meaning of "spread spectrum" unless they are implying that by using the varied strand gauges technique that their cables can transmit information that would otherwise be hidden in the noise??
The Geoff Kait and the real definition of spread spectrum is a special communications technique for hiding information in Noise, requiring a coder on send end and decoder on receive end. It’s what the big boys use. You know, so the info will be uh, secret. Spread spectrum is also a very effective method for any type of communications. You can spread it, you can hop it, you can fast hop it.
Audioquest controls directionality of all of their cables, stranded, solid core, whatever. Audioquest also controls directionality of their power cords which, as far as I know, are always stranded. Audioquest’s choice of the term spread spectrum is rather odd given what spread spectrum actually is.
I can't say I ever used completely solid cable, but I would suppose solid cable is actually *single strand* cable. Point is, there isn't just two choices of solid and stranded. Cable which is "stranded" is available in many extremely thin and frail strands to few and relatively thicker stands, which in a sense is a compromise between "solid" and "stranded".
Wow I'm impressed by all the discussion on this subject and with the objective responses. I must say I'm pleased with the education I'm getting. It looks like there is an equal representation of enthusiasts in both camps. Very recently I aquired a new amp and processor and for change of pace went back to stranded cables. Although pleased with the experience I'm now thinking of going back to solid just to see how it interacts with the new equipment. This is a mixed bag of exitement as I am looking forward to audition the solid but dread the effort required to attain it. Solid is really difficult to work with. Thank you all for keeping this thread alive. Keep your experiences coming as it will help all audio crazies
Solid core here. Tried it 20 years ago, never went back. For clarification iI should mention that my setup consists of -lots of electronics-->a Tact/lyngdorf 300w power amp --> Fostex FE204 fullrange open baffle speakers. The fostex drivers are 25w max/95db/1w drivers. It folllows that these are immensly revealing speakers. Any,even the faintest noise, like hum, switching noise etc are magnified. The "try shouting at your tube amplifier"-phenomena is real indeed.
Anyway, as an old audiophile, i’ve tried them all. The reasonably available anyway. I find that solid core copper cable (2,5mm2) brings a shine, a light in dark areas, a higher resolution, to the sound. Stranded cable sounds grainy, gray, matted etc. I guess part of the reason that Cardas, Litz etc dont market this kind of cable is that that it's too simple. Nothing fancy can be said or done about a simple solid wire. Did I mention that my cable cost about $1 pr metre, (30c pr ft)? Now I did. Not much profit potential in that.
I see that there are a lot of pseudo-metallurgists in this thread. I have nothing to contribute in that direction, and i dare to say that neither has most of these other contributors as well. In other forums that i frequently visit, an assertion requires sources. A psysicist would indeed be very interested in the theories about the movement of electrons in and between the crystals of copper mentioned in this thread
Strands don’t have to be 26awg since 18awg copper has 100% skin depth at 20kHz, as I mentioned in previous post. When they are stranded insulated then you will still have skin effect since they are in magnetic field of each other. That’s why they arrange them on hollow tube or flat tape, so that any particular wire is mostly in magnetic field of neighboring strands only, reducing skin effect.
As for purity of the copper - OFC has thousand of crystals per ft while zero crystal copper has one. Impurities reside between crystals. Zero crystal copper has one crystal not because of perfect purity, but because copper is cooled slowly in hot forms preventing crystal formation.
Took a quick look at the Jenving stuff. They are just using tinned copper (which can actually be cheaper than OFC copper). It's a plated coating on the copper to prevent oxidation. It's true that tin is not as conductive as copper, but it is still conductive. Look at the following:
Copper conductivity is 59,77. Many products (such as terminations) using different types of plating to affect the sound. They may be less conductive, but they still work well. For example, Gold plating (at 42,55) gives you more of a laid back sound. While Rhodium (at 22,17) which is much less conductive will actually give you faster more detailed sound. Brass at a very low 14,94 will transfer a lot of current and be very strong/forward. You'll also see Nickel plating used in a lot of industrial connectors.
I still think there is some cross-conductivity in the Jenving tin-plated strands. It's my opinion that they are just giving you a marketing statement to get you to buy their cheap tinned copper cable.
If you really want true coated strands, look at Cardas Litz wire. Each Cardas strand is actually coated with enamel, which completely prevents any conductivity between the strands. This is good and does exactly the same thing as solid-core. The strands are typically much thinner at 26awg or smaller.
I have also noticed that the terminations that some of these manufacturers put on speaker cable really degrade the sound. I have found that, on some cable, chopping off the termination and stripping to bare wire improved the sound tremendously!!!.
My experience parallels that statement. I'm in the middle of trying a few different speaker cables for my new Focal 1008be2's. I didn't have the same connectors on one pair and noticed that I had to use the balance control to center the image. I changed the connectors to the same style and make and voila. Rock steady center image with the balance control centered.
@stringreen - sorry, I am still using double-runs of 12awg stranded OFC copper for speaker wire (basic monster cable or stuff from Monoprice - or any equivalent source). I find this excellent and neutral speaker wire. It is actually much better than some lower end exotics (like some Nordost Blue Heavens and other "under $1k" cables). It’s also much better than silver-plated, in my opinion. In fact, I avoid anything silver. Just one tiny element like putting in a silver-plated fuse clip or a silver based fuse will change the sound -- silver will push the upper mids/highs and make the sound more artificial. The ultra-high frequencies will be smoothed out and everything else is smoother too. Not neutral, in my opinion.
I have put all my R&D in power cable and interconnect for the last few years. I have just converted everything I have over to Rhodium plated Furutech (all power cord connectors, fuses, and XLR connectors). My 20awg solid-core braided interconnects used to have gold-plated XLR connectors. Moving these to Rhodium made them the best interconnects I have ever heard. These are absolutely amazing!!!
Speaker cable R&D is on my list, but I won’t get to it for a while. However, I will start with the Neotech NES-3002. It will probably be raw copper wire at the amp end and I will probably use Furutech Rhdium spades at the speaker end (they are all bi-wire and some of my speakers do not have a "wire hole" for raw wire).
I have also noticed that the terminations that some of these manufacturers put on speaker cable really degrade the sound. I have found that, on some cable, chopping off the termination and stripping to bare wire improved the sound tremendously!!!. Not that I am telling you to chop off the ends of several-hundred dollar cables (resale value), but it may make a difference if you choose to.
stringreen - I have Treo CTs with two 2wq subs. Bet your 5A’s are sweet. You certainly tried some high-priced spreads from the AQ stable. Glad to hear you found cables you like (ClearDay) I have never heard a system wired with ClearDay. Good to know there are other brands out there that mate synergistically with Vandys.
HiFiman5.....you didn't say what Vandersteens you have ....mine are 5A's and found Audioquest Everest/MontBlanc to be excellent, but to these ears, ClearDay cables work better for me. (WmLowe versions were not good at all in my system)
audiofreak...boy am I with you.... I got ClearDay double shotgun bi-wire for my Vandersteens, and my word....a jaw dropping clearing of fog. I’m very pleased with it...tried very many cables, but ClearDay (top of the line Wireworld sounds just about identical, but with a bit more ease) is nearly at the top for me.
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