So you think wire conductors in cables are directional? Think again...
Here is a very relevant discussion among physicists about the directionality...the way signal and electrons should flow... based on conductor orientation. Some esoteric, high-end manufacturers say they listen to each conductor to see which way the signal should flow for the best audio quality.
Read this discussion. Will it make you rethink what you’re being told and sold?
I presented an honest query as discussed by physicists. Many commenters twisted the meaning of said query...you being one of them...and in pretty short order, the whole thing has turned into farce.
Apparently asking people their views on something that is seemingly controversial gets interpreted as trolling. And BTW...you're one of the facilitators of denying the science...and when you personally don't like my comments, you simply delete my posts.
And...did you ever answer my query...or just avoid the subject due to conflicts of interest?
@oldhvymec, Thanks for pointing out the hypocrisy of his statement.
Having to twice quote me, first with a "I'm rubber, you're glue" childish retort, and then to be so patently opportunistic and hide behind a holier than thou comeback (probably thought of it right after posting his first) speaks volumes to his character.
That homeless guy I blew off was just a casually dressed, middle aged moocher, hanging around the gas station. Not anything like the ones I see on my morning walks, looking like they belong in an institution. Too well dressed to actually sleep on the sidewalk, but haggardly looking to suggest he likes his vices.
Then we have to deal with someone, here, who's losing an argument and just can't move on.
OP it speaks to anyone’s character when people "TALK". Because I converse with someone is not because I have something to offer or visa versa. It could just be out of mutual courtesy between two human beings in passing.
While being homeless can be a burden to some it is the ONLY way others will live. Being homeless is a temporary situation ANYWHERE in the United States, including all the U.S Territories.
The U.S. is a place where if you choose to be homeless or CHOOSE to be a billionaire, YOU or I have a choice none the less.
What is a "hand up"? A hand out? What’s a hand out? What YOU want to give. That’s right.. What does anyone need at anytime?
99.9% of the people wouldn’t have given a homeless guy a second look but somehow YOU would have changed his world had YOU been there?
I admire your intent if that is what it truly is. You would invite the guy home and give him a bath, feed him, washed his feet, clothed him in the finest duds in town and called him brother? Take him to his next NA/AA meeting and made sure HE was ok because you were looking out for YOU, so you could look out for HIM... Really, are you that person?
You’re a better man than me or are you a mere man? I would have HAD to "AT LEAST" known the guy from somewhere in my past. Yup better man than me.. Angels walk amongst us. I’ve spoken to one a time or two..
BUT I know which direction my cable point, and there is a reason for it.
Just like this thread, we all have choices and it’s not up to others to make or decide for us. Either you know what you know or you don’t. Pretty simple.. BUT I’m just a common man that happens to be a retired heavy equipment mechanic. That and 5.00 dollars will get me a cup of coffee. That's a fact if I leave a 25 cent tip..
nonoise7,066 posts05-19-2021 10:09pmYou still don't get it. That, and you're starting to remind me of some homeless guy I blew off today. Kind of felt sorry for him afterwards. Best to not talk to you anymore.
All the best, Nonoise
How you treat your fellow humans, whether homeless or filthy rich, says quite a bit about your character. Since you simply chose to "blow off" the homeless guy, rather than give him a hand up...tells me all I need to know about you.
nonoise7,066 posts05-19-2021 10:09pmYou still don't get it. That, and you're starting to remind me of some homeless guy I blew off today. Kind of felt sorry for him afterwards. Best to not talk to you anymore.
You still don't get it. That, and you're starting to remind me of some homeless guy I blew off today. Kind of felt sorry for him afterwards. Best to not talk to you anymore.
You love to make assumptions and statements that make zero sense.
Some psychologists are far more competent than others. You think that's incorrect? Or are ALL licensed professionals of the same level of capability and intelligence?
Then forgot all the part of my post about cables manufacturers and psychologist....
Why insulting someone who give a coherent point like many people experience is perceiving this direction in cable?
There are quite a few commenters in this thread that didn’t pay attention to the question/idea/premise of my thread on conductor directionality. It was either avoided, or the subject changed to how the cable is terminated, or have been led down the primrose path by the cable manufacturer’s "claims" that the conductor is directional by the way the wire was drawn.
It’s just not possible...especially at audio frequencies.
Then forgot all the part of my post about cables manufacturers and psychologist.... i can aknowledge when i am wrong easily and i am wrong here .... I react to speedily to your rant....😊
Why insulting someone who give a coherent point like the past poster pointing to the fact that many people are perceiving this direction in cable?
Insults and arrogance are not good points in a debate...
LOL...We ALL practice psychology everyday. Professional, licensed psychologists are just like every other paid profession. Some are very good...Some are not, and shouldn’t be in the profession...because they're in it simply for the money, and to practice control of the needy. Just like some cable manufacturers.
Some of those very good psychologists you seem to have "scientifically" qualified with that statement would have a field day with you. Maybe even write a thesis on their time interviewing you.
But wait, would you demand a double blind interview, with you and a ringer behind a curtain, speaking through some form of Autotune to mask your voices so as to sound the same?
All the best, Nonoise
You love to make assumptions and statements that make zero sense.
Some psychologists are far more competent than others. You think that's incorrect? Or are ALL licensed professionals of the same level of capability and intelligence?
because they’re in it simply for the money, and to practice control of the needy. Just like some cable manufacturers.
Your vision of the world mimic the one of self appointed crusader or a paranoical one...
The number of psychologists which practise from the beginning for MONEY is not the majority at all.... Why? because if the money is your principal motivation you dont study psychology to begin with...
And manipulating the needy is more easy in law profession and political one.... Or big corporation....Instead of field day to day clinical psychology...
Your analysis is a projection of your own motivation perhaps or experience with a psychologist you antagonized?
Anyway your observation is completely "irrational"....
By the way most cables manufacturers are no more no less thiefs than usual commercial companies... If you think otherwise you are very inexperimented in life experience to say the least...
And answering to a perfectly logical argument like in the preceding post by an insult is more an indication of your own mental state than a description of the antagonized poster you answered to....
I am not a psychologist by the way..... But even a children can analyse your answer illogical rant....
Then i must conclude that your thread is NOT a truthful question but only a question to provoke antagonisn.... You owned already the truth and you are not interested to look for it...On the contrary you have fun mocking people of so called " poor" understanding....It is not a sign of high level intelligence sorry...
Nice attempt to cherry pick from my comments to bolster your rambling incoherent ramble. I said "some"...not "all". And...I'm old enough to have had enough life experience to know shysters when I see them.
We won't get into levels of intelligence...nor failings at your written prose. Maybe English is not your first language, but you shouldn't lecture if you can't get coherent thoughts across. Deal?
We all know silver sounds brighter compared to copper.
That's as far as I got. You're beginning with an unverified premise. Where's the evidence silver sounds "brighter" than copper? What does "brighter" mean and how is it quantified?
Here is an concrete example why if you believe in equation, you're can be so wrong. Let's take an example of silver vs. copper. We all know silver sounds brighter compared to copper. But it's not so obvious if you believe in the equation. See below for the DC resistance of silver and copper which is a mere 2ohm per 1000 ft for 24-gauge. For a typical 6ft speaker cables, the resistance difference is a miniscule .012 ohm. For thicker 12AWG wire, that difference may even be smaller. The objectivists looking at the equation would state that 0.012 ohm is well below the threshold of human hearing. But it's not that simple since we can all hear the difference in silver vs. copper.
But here a curve ball. I build my own speaker. Now if I use a 2.0Ohm resistor on my tweeter, or a 2.012ohm I probably won't be able to hear a difference. Why is that? To be honest, I don't know. But I can clearly hear the difference between silver vs. copper.
OK, now you may say skin affect is what makes a difference. But if you use Maxwell equation to solve for skin affect, at 20KHz, the difference between silver vs. copper going to be even more miniscule. Objectively skin affect should only affect RF frequency. Looking at the equation you will conclude that it's all below the threshold of human hearing. But again we can all hear difference in silver vs. copper.
You see how the objectivists can be fooled if all they look at is the equation. That's why they believe in these so called "measurement website". They look at thing at only one dimension and make their own conclusion. But there too many variables. Too many that can be counted.
Silver and copper are the two most conductive metals known to mankind, with gold following behind in third place. The conductivity of silver clocks in at 63 x 10^6 siemens/meter, roughly seven percent higher than the conductivity of annealed copper, which stands at 59 x 10^6 siemens/meter. Measured in ohms, the difference in the resistance (the amount of electricity lost as a current travels from point A to point B through a material) of 24-gauge, 1000-foot-long silver and copper wire is minor. The resistance of the copper wire is a mere 2 ohms higher.
LOL...We ALL practice psychology everyday. Professional, licensed psychologists are just like every other paid profession. Some are very good...Some are not, and shouldn’t be in the profession...because they're in it simply for the money, and to practice control of the needy. Just like some cable manufacturers.
Some of those very good psychologists you seem to have "scientifically" qualified with that statement would have a field day with you. Maybe even write a thesis on their time interviewing you.
But wait, would you demand a double blind interview, with you and a ringer behind a curtain, speaking through some form of Autotune to mask your voices so as to sound the same?
because they’re in it simply for the money, and to practice control of the needy. Just like some cable manufacturers.
Your vision of the world mimic the one of self appointed crusader or a paranoical one...
The number of psychologists which practise from the beginning for MONEY is not the majority at all.... Why? because if the money is your principal motivation you dont study psychology to begin with...
And manipulating the needy is more easy in law profession and political one.... Or big corporation....Instead of field day to day clinical psychology...
Your analysis is a projection of your own motivation perhaps or experience with a psychologist you antagonized?
Anyway your observation is completely "irrational"....
By the way most cables manufacturers are no more no less thiefs than usual commercial companies... If you think otherwise you are very inexperimented in life experience to say the least...
And answering to a perfectly logical argument like in the preceding post by an insult is more an indication of your own mental state than a description of the antagonized poster you answered to....
I am not a psychologist by the way..... But even a children can analyse your answer illogical rant....
Then i must conclude that your thread is NOT a truthful question but only a question to provoke antagonisn.... You owned already the truth and you are not interested to look for it...On the contrary you have fun mocking people of so called " poor" understanding....It is not a sign of high level intelligence sorry...
" If cable direction caused audible differences then the measurements would vary depending on the way it was measured."
And the day we discover the device or method that can measure the audible differences a human can discern, your comment would be correct. Until then your comment is non sequitur
For the record, I have not heard a difference in the orientation of a cable. But there is no science known to man that tells us it’s not possible. Given the overwhelming amount of individuals who have experienced the phenomenon, I’m inclined to keep an open mind.
Keeping an open mind should be easy for you, since you lack grey matter. Plenty of empty space to fill up.
nonoise7,062 posts05-19-2021 3:52pmThank goodness none of the objectivists here are practicing psychologists or there’d be way too many misdiagnosed people running around, questioning their very existence, high on anti psychotic drugs.
All the best, Nonoise
LOL...We ALL practice psychology everyday. Professional, licensed psychologists are just like every other paid profession. Some are very good...Some are not, and shouldn’t be in the profession...because they're in it simply for the money, and to practice control of the needy. Just like some cable manufacturers.
Thank goodness none of the objectivists here are practicing psychologists or there'd be way too many misdiagnosed people running around, questioning their very existence, high on anti psychotic drugs.
Perceptions are one thing. Biased by many factors.
The problem is that your use of the concept of "bias" is simplistic...
A bias is not only something to be eliminated in a statistical experiment using blindstest for example, it is also a positive constitutive aspect of perception to be used and developed in a controlled user environment ...
You used this concept of bias in an ideological stance....
Actual technical specs are a baseline to making a purchasing choice.
This last affirmation made no sense for me...
For sure i want an amplifier with good specs, but among the immense crowds of those measuring well, are they equal? No like everybody with 2 ears can know....
But djones is ready to pass this audible phenomenon over to bias. Perhaps also imagination. How would you like to live in that type of world? Tidy but dismal.
So according to his last post, he allows for a variation in how individuals hear? Could he also be allowing for a variation in the process of hearing? Is it physical/mechanical or is it chemical or both? If he allows for variation he has dug himself a very deep hole.
" If cable direction caused audible differences then the measurements would vary depending on the way it was measured."
And the day we discover the device or method that can measure the audible differences a human can discern, your comment would be correct. Until then your comment is non sequitur
For the record, I have not heard a difference in the orientation of a cable. But there is no science known to man that tells us it’s not possible. Given the overwhelming amount of individuals who have experienced the phenomenon, I’m inclined to keep an open mind.
Perception of sound happens in the brain. I know there are some instruments being used to measure things like emotional response to music but no we can't measure all aspects of human perception to sound. This thread isn't about that but measuring the physical devices carrying the signals to the reproduction of the sound waves before they hit the ear.
If cable direction caused audible differences then the measurements would vary depending on the way it was measured. If those measurements show no difference but audible differences are still claimed then listening could be used to see if there is something the measurements are not picking up.
Measurement of sound does not equal perception of sound.
Then why arguing about or against cable directivity?
By faith or superstition?
oups! i forget....
You claimed that all perception not reducible to measures are placebos for sure....
But wait a minute if some perception are not illusion or placebos , even being non measurable this way by a voltmeter or a frequencies meter , psychoacoustic made sense anyway....And perhaps for the cable, changing his direction is a particular "measure instruction" to experiment with by listening to it? A way to CORRELATE a physical information to an audible perception...
And perhaps cable direction made sense being an instruction to experiment with....
Then is all perception of sound reducible to known measurements or not? Say yes or no....
If like you just said measuring and listening are different why do you ridiculize those who experiment with it in the affirmative?
They dont know that psychoacoustic is not psychology but a rigorous science CORRELATING two factors that cannot be reduced: one is physical acoustic for example and the other is the way the brain/body in a non computer way created the sound qualities experienced by humans...
They dont know this correlation process....They reduced psychacoustic to acoustic, like idiot reduce science to one if his subfield or to technology...
Asking the right question in science is more important than an answer...
An answer can be wrong, a rightly asked question is never wrong....
I understand, on the other hand your comprehension is rather suspect.
I’ll help you out. Measurement of sound does not equal perception of sound. Quit putting words in my mouth. I have never mentioned perception that’s an entirely different thing.
Everything a human can hear can be measured, no ifs, ands or buts. There is no equivocation, no in principle, it's a simple fact. Plain and simple everything we hear is a physical phenomena transferred via the air around us.
Something tells me you don't fully understand what you wrote.
There is a difference between measuring sound pressure which anybody can measure.
But it's difference from measuring how human perceive music. No instrument on earth that I know of can do that.
Third confusing science with technology and reality with technological power is directly linked to the stupid affirmation that all what we can hear, see, touch, or think can be measured...A.I. replacing human is the next welcoming "faith"....
Cultism zealot in audio or transhumanist are near each other...
And speaking of babbling you outreach me by far with your posting...No arguments save superstitious trust in materialism instead of science precisely...
Plain and simple everything we hear is a physical phenomena transferred via the air around us.
I am pretty sure your brain will be unable to understand it but for example music is not just sound, but a perceived meaning through sound or in spite of the sound, that cannot be measured by a mechanical clock but can be measured by the body....Ask a maestro...
Then in the same way that music is not reducible to sound, some others perceived qualities perceived by the ears/body/brain cannot be reduced to frequencies modelling...
We do not even have a clear scientific description of pitch perception with complex frequencies modelling this way....
And some pretend against real science playing with their toy/tools that anything we hear can be reduced to measuring gear? Any objectivist must ask the Nobel prize for science, able to prove that.... I will vote for him if he can....
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