So damn hard deciding which tube preamp to buy!

Hey there. 

I would recommend 
PreAmp- Primaluna Dialogue
Dac - Playback Designs MPD

Good luck!

25k? I need a new pick em' up truck, can you give me a loan? 

Vtl 7.5 series 3.  Mom likes this.  Seems pricey at $28k.  Has fully functional remote which vac sadly lacks.  Conrad johnson didnt have xlr, lumin x1 likes xlr..  too bad.

What are you looking for in terms of sound, something very colored and syrupy or something that true to the source with speed, musicality and sheer dynamics?


My first recommendation will be Atma-Sphere MP-1 Pre-amp Fully Loaded with all dam options available. Put in the best tubes you can afford. I consider this pre-amp as one of the best around but you must learn to set it up properly with tubes. It is very sensitive pre-amp. I consider this as one of the best in the world. Its fully balanced, follows the AES48 Code, it can drive Long cables and you can set the system up well away from the speakers and amps. I have been using one for many years and no longer feel i need to ever change. 

Other option is VAC, Its colored for sure, but sounds very good and i used to own it. I moved from VAC to Atma with no Regrets but still consider VAC very good pre-amps especially if bought second hand cheap.

Conrad-Johnson's GAT Preamp is a reference for many reviewers.  You should be able to hear it locally and find a discount as well.

Just narrow it down to a couple of prospects then research the hell out of them. Find out which dealer offers a 30 day trial with money back guarantee. We all been through it before. On the other hand it used to be easy to turn over used gear on Audiogon, not so easily done any more.

So you have $10 to $25k

[sorry for my English]
...and you are asking what to do?Very simple, you buy (blindly) the very best preamplifier of the world that money can buy in that price range: Aries Cerat Incito S (approx. $15.000).
I don' like tubes (honey-topping on everything), but this one is totally different. SET tube design, with zero feed-back, and transistor-like figures. Watch out, 5 chokes and 75lb (!!!). Romote control, with relays (no potentiometer, they all suck).
 It replaced favorably a Cello Encore (in an acquaintance's system), and even caught back to active preamp afficionados of passive preamps.

That thing is not of this world, really. Well beyond ALL the big names of high-end.

If you have $25,000  to spend for a tube preamp.You should have no problem picking one out...even if you buy something you don't like just have you chauffeur return it.

Well it isn't actually that hard. Just pick one of these:
https://www.vinylsavor.com/en/products/line/

It will be built to order just for you. You can specify what and how many inputs and outputs, chassis style, finish, choice of wood. Thomas even makes his own world class DHT tubes. Who else does that?

cat renaissance, in current production, has an optional(great) phono stage, outboard power supply, 6922@12ax7 tubes but single ended inputs and outputs only

Nedhoey that's who I would have build a preamp if I was spending $25,000. 

Do you want single-ended or balanced?

Buy a BAT and be happy.

nedhoey,
I never heard of that company, but the amps look absolutely beautiful!

BAT preamp has about 16 tubes and uses 300 watts when in use.  It is a monster preamp.  Not a good fit within ht setup.

VAC, 2 tubes, very nice but remote not fully functional. Not good fit for ht use.

mom very unhappy, wants a new preamp. So hard to find a quality tube preamp for ht use.  Vtl 7.5 iii very nice at $28k, but very overpriced.

The best I have had and heard are the BAT pre amps , Pricey when new 2nd hand better for you.

facten, that may well be true, but you should give him the benefit of the doubt. I wish some one would of made a few suggestions on a tube preamp for myself but in the end I had to experiment with a hand full of them and decide which one worked well to my ears and in my system. That is what happens in the end any way.

Why do some tube preamps have lots of tubes, arc has 8, bat has about 15 for rex, vac has only 2, vlt has 2.  Are they hybrid?

they seem to be located in gain stage.  Why here?

This article explains it pretty well.  
http://www.moxtone.com/Tube_buffer_en.html

BAT uses tubes in the rectification (power supply) vs a SS rectifier.  This is technically a quieter approach.  My experience is that in practice, this is only really critical with highly sensitive speakers.

They then use tubes in the gain/amplifier stage and the buffer.  Alternatively, Conrad Johnson uses two 6922s in the amplifier stage and then MOSFETs in the buffer so yes, this is a hybrid approach.  
Many companies take very different approaches and each designer often has very firm opinions on what does and doesn’t make a good tube circuit.  
I have had one designer tell me a 6922 is not appropriate for audio applications.  I have other designers where it is their preferred tube.  

The important thing is picking a preamp that will marry well with your power amp.  

CAT Renaissance BPX with phono. IME nothing else even comes close.
You can also order it with Balanced inputs/outputs if you so desire.

ANK Mentor would be a dream preamp for me.

if you are really looking for a world class Tube Pre.. 

1) upper end of the Shindo line.  Voshnee Romanee from Shindo is sublime.  Includes an amazing phono section.  At slightly lower price, the Shindo Masseto.  The Shindo Giscours is also great.

2) upper end of Air Tight.  yummy

3) Conrad Johnson GAT

imho

Concert Fidelity Cf-070LSX

Most of us have 10-20K to blow.
   Shop smart, buy used gear, 

   10-25K just laying around.  Need a room mate?

   Do you absolutely NEED tubes?
check out SMCaudio VR preamps, 

 conrad johnson

 save some cash and check out AVA or Vincent makes very nice gear. 
 Enjoy the hunt,.....

So how best do you match a preamp to an amp?  You hear u should match, but exactly how do u do this?

I think you should have your mommy make the cal since she is footing the bill

 Mommy gone away.  I need to make decision myself. Am a big boy.

And so it (t)rolls on.

Sorry for taking time to get back to you on this.  Was with family at the beach.  
You want to have the right amount of gain, output impedance.  Get those right and the amp will sound great.  If you have too little or too much gain, sound will be bloated or thin respectively.  If the impedance is wrong, then you will issues.

this is a great write up.  
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/how-to-match-preamp-and-power-amp

I would stick in the mid teens, 12-18dB of gain with your power amp.  200/100ohm balanced/unbalance impedance range should be good for your amp.  This doesn’t need to be exact and some deviation is allowable.  

...uh, that 24 hr. 'drop the $ or Drop It' time limit blew away awhile ago....

Oh, I get it....she's off to the muther-in-law.....and you're about to die.

(You could go Real SOTA, and play with this:

https://korgnutube.com/en/

Best of both whirl'ds'?   Mmmaybe....;)...)

...oh, Stop.  Even Spock wouldn't make a face like That....;(

...it might 'stick'.

Oh, pardon....That 'is' Normal....my bad.....*snicker*

Take a look at this.
Has remote.
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649764944-joule-electra-la300me-fully-upgraded/

I owned the LA 100 mk II, fully upgraded NOS tubes etc., and it was very disappointing.

yeah right a  10k pre amp will sound sooooo much better than a  1500 preamp (cayin))  yeah right, 
what a waste of money

The cayin will perform equally as good as any preamp,, for alot lotTTTT less cash

The cayin will perform equally as good as any preamp,, for alot lotTTTT less cash

Have you compared the Cayin to every preamp? There is always something better.

Sad there is no spec compilation matching guide to aid preamp decisions.  So i will prepare my own grid listing specs for amps/preamps/speakers for my top picks.

maybe this will help me.  Make sense?

trying to make mom happy. 

Have you compared the Cayin to every preamp? There is always something better.

I made a  experiement witha   Jadis clone, 12AT7, with Mundorf caps, vs a  Jadis 20 yr old DPL, Mundorf Caps, Takman Resistors Reys.
Sure Jadis has the  finest power caps, Philips the blue ones, but really the improvement was only **miniscule**.
To me a  amp = amp\
DAC = DAC
Line Stage = line stage.
Minisclue gains here N there, Now as for 
Speakers = speakers
HUge gaps there. Each will sound completely totally differebnt from the next. 
Spaekers are everything, the rest is only minisclue gains. 
Speakers 90%++ of  the sound ina  system
the other less than 10% is split between 
DAC/CDP /Line Stage/ Amplificatrion. 

I'll bet that this Cayin sounds pretty good.
cayin sc 10 | eBay

Again, balanced or single-ended?

Bal and single ended, prefer balanced.

preamps are 20% of sound impact, very important.

Yes,I agree,preamps are very important to the overall sound. No two ways about it. 

Simple, PrimaLuna Evolution 400 Integrated from UpscaleAudio.com.  The amp is fantastic and Upscale is amazing. 

C2700, fantastic pre-amp, great built in DAC.  Done.  Love mine.  Bought it with a MC462, was more worried about the pre-amp, than the amp.  

The pre-amp made a bigger difference.  It’s excellent.

@twoleftears

And so it (t)rolls on.

amen

the stupidity is astounding

Jjss49. U seem unhappy.  So sad.  U r loved by someone somewhere.

@emergingsoul

i am quite well, thanks

your posts, however, simply evoke an unavoidable reaction

you can do better than continually post this abject nonsense, or can you?

consider it a challenge... make this place better for all of us...

Bal and single ended, prefer balanced.

If running balanced, you have the opportunity to eliminate interconnect cable interaction with your system, which otherwise can lead to expensive interconnect cables to get the system to sound right.


The only thing is, with balanced lines there is a standard which must be supported to allow this to happen. Most high end audio preamps that are balanced do not support the standard, which is also known as AES48. When looking into balanced preamps its a good idea to ask if the preamp supports this standard; if not you may find that single-end sounds just as good. But if the preamp does support the standard, there won't be any going back to single-ended.