Snake oil of the year?

have you tried one? if not just go away 

things are always being discovered that are new and if people hear an improvement that should be enough

naysayerslaughed at speakerspikes now everyon uses them isoacouhas proven their products do indeed work

My dog pooping projects a more professional image than the wankers ripping this switch apart verbally and physically in this video. If you want to have a fun and productive discussion going, come up with a bit more interesting topic than this or go to ASR forum where you’ll be a star for posting something as stupid as this video.

i actually have one, it works well, makes the music seem calmer, more analog, less hashy, compared to a basic commidity switch - this unit is upstream of my etherregen and/or eno

have you tried one? if not just go away 

If the only people that purchase them are those that believe that it will work, then we have a skewed population. And that population would likely believe that they help in a sighted test.

Much the same as people who do not believe that they work would likely hear a difference in a sighted test, and also may not want to hear it in a blind test.

Audiophile Network switches? There are prior threads dissecting  this. Here is a sample of the  “audiophile” network switches assessments from some our fellow forum members 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/do-i-really-need-an-audio-grade-network-switch?highlight=Network%2Bswitches

djones51 4,473 posts

01-17-2022 6:20pm

“…There is no such thing as an audio grade switch …”

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/ ... i%20router.

" ... No, I have not, nor will I ever. Having been a network technician for over 30 years I know that a network switch’s job is to faithfully receive packets and transmit them to their intended target. If it doesn’t do that it will be replaced as defective.

Implying that these devices can color audio signals is patently ridiculous, but I knew at some point some one would try it and some one would buy it...."

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/ ... t=ethernet

" ...Well, I just tried using a wifi repeater and noticed no improvement (or degradation) of sound quality. ... "

Eh.  I was unimpressed with it.  (Scroll down a bit to AQVox.)

Judging by the tone of your OP, you never tried an Ethernet Switch? They may or may not impact SQ depending on your own system, and your listening skills / preference. I don't know your system. But, judging by the picture on your profile, with the (right or wrong) assumptions that that picture depicts your system, I don't think an Ethernet Switch should be your top priority right now. 

Linus Tech Tips is a reputable YouTube tech channel. They’re currently investing a lot of money in a new facility so they can test different electronics / accessories.

It’s no surprise that a blind test showed that the claims AQVOX makes about improvements to sound quality are without merit. As the video states, we’re dealing with digital data. If there were audible changes in the sound, then the data must be different when received by the DAC.

You can test this yourself. Connect a PC to your audiophile switch. Select a music file to copy. Create a SHA-512 hash of the file (see below for some tips). Copy that music file to another PC on the switch, network attached storage, or even Google Drive (if you can reach the internet through the switch). Then copy that file back to a different location on the PC. Create a SHA-512 hash of the copy. Compare the SHA-512 ’fingerprints’. If they match, then you know the switch isn’t the source of the change in sound quality.

Generating a SHA-512 hash...

on Windows (at command prompt):

certutil -hashfile [file] sha512

on macOS (using Terminal):

shasum -a 512 [file]

on Linux

sha512sum [file]

I have the M12 switch from JCAT.  It is hugely better than the standard switch I replaced.  If you have not heard a good switch you should.  So tired of network experts who know without listening.

It is important to be clear that not all network switches are being made fun of, just this one (AQVOK Switch SE) when Linus Sebastian open up the box to investigate.  Linus employs 80 people in his company, and is hiring 14 more according to his job posting, he is known to be reputable in the hardware circles.  I believe he has 22M subscribers in all his channels/distributions. 

On the advice of someone in a position to know I use a D-Link DGS105 with an ifi power wall wart  The advice was that this would give what "audiophile" devices at about $600 will give.  You can buy and try on Amazon.  Be sure to ground the switch--there is a grounding screw.

It made a noticeable improvement in my system for very little money.

While the dude in the YT video comes across as a very pretentious prick, he does IMO point out that this switch is a bunch of hooey. Seriously a glued on crystal makes it a "crystal oscillator"? That is hilarious. Folks couldn’t tell a difference in blind test listening either versus the D-Link the AQVOX is based on.  Most everything in the AQVOX is just glued on.  For ~800 Euro? Best to spend your money elsewhere where a difference could be made in your digital chain.

I don't know about this being "snake oil".

I've found that judiciously placed Illuminati Stickers do increase my performance.

DeKay

$2,500 Ethernet Switch Effectively Isolates Audiophiles From Cash

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ethernet-switch-for-audiophiles

Key quote on this switch effect metaphor:

”… However, the reviewer says, "This review is based on my subjective requirements, my subjective ears, my specific system configuration, and my specific listening room."

This means there are no actual measurements of sound quality, so you’ll need to take his observations with a grain of salt. ,,,”

…hmmm .,, more like exaggeration requiring a boatload full of salt….ergo … horse hooey.

I wonder if he tests fuses?

Nothing fun about watching stupid commercials.

I do not care. 

Period, Linus or whatever his name is, is a gaming geek. 

better grounding, or cleaner grounds can fix a lot of the impression of 'grunge' in some digital based audio systems. Not always, but it can happen.

same for purely analog systems. the ground and it's qualities can be and is important. This can be a problem in apartments, high rises, places with bad grounding dry grounds around the house in situ, or dried out oxidized ground rods, etc.

I tend to encourage show runners (the people putting on audio shows) at hotels, in hotel rooms, to hire an electrician and to go around and check  all the connections in all the panels in the rooms, to re-screw all wire connections (loosen and re-tighten), to flip all the breakers, etc. This will generally make the entire show sound just a hair better, and makes some rooms go from disasters to OK.

 

better grounding, or cleaner grounds can fix a lot of the impression of ’grunge’ in some digital based audio systems. Not always, but it can happen.

same for purely analog systems. the ground and it’s qualities can be and is important. This can be a problem in apartments, high rises, places with bad grounding dry grounds around the house in situ, or dried out oxidized ground rods, etc.

@teo_audio How do planes and satellites work then?
They do not have access to ground rods, and many seem to use use digital systems.

Nope.

Snake oil of the century is 6 feet of mains cable costing $5k that does nothing that a 20amp stock cable can't do.

Nope.

Snake oil of the century is 6 feet of mains cable costing $5k that does nothing that a 20amp stock cable can’t do.

@clearthinker And another $5k box to hook the grounds up to?

I might start a company and call it “hallowed ground.”

Or 'shallow ground'?

A good network switch can and does make a Audible improvement 

for example the Uptone Audio Ether regen  at $630  it absolutely works with many reviews , much better still is the Synergistic research Ethernet switch and power cord $2k. Is pretty steep  but makes Avery nice improvement in fidelity 

I currently have the uptone I may go with a Quality Ethernet to fiber optic like Sonore .very good digital cost $$ ,just as a good turntable does.

I think you should jump over to ASR for your fun nyc_ben. Tired of people dissing kit they haven’t tried.

I have a friend who recommended this switch to me. I went a slightly different direction (but along the same track).

I have an Aqvox 5v USB linear power supply which was beneficial, to power the Halide Bridge I was using at the time.

I’m using a power line adapter so I doubt it will help me much. To bad my internet comes into a bedroom and not my family room.

Nope.

Snake oil of the century is 6 feet of mains cable costing $5k that does nothing that a 20amp stock cable can’t do.

 

I refuse to pay more than $4K for a power cable.

Early this year, my Internet service provider came to my house to remove their old wifi router and put a pair of wifi mesh instead. When I tested my streaming, I am shock to notice a significant improvement in Sound Quality. Instanteously I love my internet service provider..LOL. It does not cost me any $$$$$. I also started to store music into Asustor NAS. And I do not listen to music via Tidal that much anymore (as before) as the music coming from my NAS are just awesomely sound wwith better dynamic, more open, loving the top end, more detail, vocals are warmer, liquid,  etc...I love it.

Recently I purchased an audiophile switch just to try out. And I noticed it did make my streaming sound a little bit better. Music are more focus and bass tighter. But a great improvement I see are my video quality from my cable TV and Android Box going into that audiophile switch. Not an expensive switch but made by those people who create ’Jay Audio" .

Any power cord under $8500.00 for 5 meters is garbage. 

The Fidelizer Etherstream network switch, which I have, definitely improves TV resolution-Its easy to see the difference .So it does "something" As far as audio is concerned I doubt if I could tell the difference.

Every component in the chain must change something -Its never benign 

All the switches are snake oil imo... if you have a good newtwork player that s all...

Sure there are 1s and 0s.  If somebody buys something and it works good for them.  Aqvox must sell enough to stay in business, for example.

But, good streaming requires proper streamer design, filtering for EMI/RF,,  linear power supplies anything to lower the noise floor.  You will here better sound. 

As it’s been written over and over here, there snd everywhere there are many variables in systems/rooms. 

With my gear I found the EtherRegen made a difference and the Jcat M12 more so.

Some of these “snake oil” solutions are actual tonics. 

I find it hard to take seroiuly folks who haven’t tried equipment they excoriate but haven’t used or been around. Ah the internet. 

“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”

Isaac Asimov

Many modern high-end digital processors or DACs take advantage of the XMOS xCORE-200 digital receiver. The xCORE-200 massively over samples all incoming digital streams and transfers them on to the I2S bus with absolute jitter free certainty. This technology has rendered most re-clocking and jitter reducing accessories obsolete.

Tech Blog: Using technology to upgrade Digital Signal Processing without added complexity or expense

Deer Creek Audio is an authorized miniDSP dealer

@ilkeresmer 

All the switches are snake oil imo... if you have a good newtwork player that s all...

True that you can end up with a satisfying sound with ethernet to a good network player. But that 'satisfying sound,' can be improved upon.

In small increments with differing additions these (you call them snake oil) pieces add to a greater whole. I have lifted my system performance in this way, one effective piece being a reclocked network switch.

There's no such thing as an audio grade switch. 

This butchered TP Link  that is marketed as one is a bit more snake oily than most. 

actually audioTroy,

people are still laughing at speaker spikes because they don't isolate anything, the vibration is going to the floor and then from the floor they go back to the spikes and into the speaker shaking them, those spikes are useless, decoupling speakers is the only way to go not coupling and the best isolation product for that is the Townshend podiums, maybe you should go look them up.

@urbie you are right the podiums or at least the isoAcoustics products should be used  to decouple speakers.

@ilkeresmer I am going to say you are wrong All the switches are snake oil imo... if you have a good newtwork player that s all...

I have an Innuos Statement and upgraded to fiber using the Gtek Media Converters (a switch) and it was a marked improvement. I also have a LessLoss Echo’s End DAC equipped with the LessLoss Firewall 640X and I added the Gtek based on peoples experiences here on Agon.

Open your third eye, mind and ears to what can be for cheap sometimes.

Now lets talk about $8500 power cords.

@wsrrsw 

I find it hard to take seroiuly folks who haven’t tried equipment they excoriate but haven’t used or been around. Ah the internet.

Well that's good news because In the video, they compared the AQVOX vs. the standard D-Link switch with blind listening tests. Out of two rounds of testing with 10 participants, the AQVOX was selected as the better sounding option once, the standard D-Link switch was selected 4 times, and the rest of the times there was no difference heard. You watched the video, right?

There's no reason why a network switch whose only purpose is to move data without error from point A to point B should change the sound. This is the beauty of digital data. No matter how many times data is moved through the switch, a perfect copy is made on the receiving end. This is fundamental to how digital audio and systems (i.e. PCs, streamers, the internet, etc.) work. Otherwise, none of these things would be usable.

So with that fact in mind, the only way the sound would be different is if somehow the data payload bits were being changed by the switch. That means if you copied a file from one device to another using that switch, it would be different on the receiving end. You can test this yourself with tools built into all the major operating systems in use today. No measurements needed.

Try it with your JCAT switch vs. a normal switch (perhaps on the cable modem or wi-fi router supplied by your ISP).

@yage

With apologies to Paul Simon and Mose Allison

“It’s really not my habit to intrude
Furthermore, I hope my meaning
Won’t be lost or misconstrued
But I’ll repeat myself
At the risk of being crude” your gotcha moment ain’t got me dude.

In one word, forgetaboutit.

I watched untill it was clear this was a test of a COMPUTER based signal into a snazzy headphone amp.

Having converted years back from computer streaming to using a streamer, I’ll stay with a streamer, roubust PSU and ethernet cleanup with no switch (filter’s yes).

I’m willing to admit that I don’t know about high end computer audio.

On my rig the JCat is top dog. Naturally I have listened with and without it.

I’m also willing to admit of possible bais with new grear but this snake oil is non toxic and delicious.

“Please don’t talk about me when I’m gone
Though our love has ended from now on
If you can’t say anything real nice
Just don’t talk at all, that’s my advice

You’ll go your way, I’ll go mine
It’s better that we do
Here’s a kiss I hope that this
Brings lots of love to you

Makes no difference how I carry on
Please don’t talk about me when I’m gone.”

Hope you know I’m kidding.

I’m not kidding that better liniear power into a swich, filter, Roon Nucleus, makes a difference to all (2) of my test subjects who I pay to agree with me by the trap of marriage (I digress). If that educational video had fitted either switch maybe with a great PSU that would have cured my ADD rather than caused it

@yage : it’s not about the “data”. Everyone knows that. Basic stuff Sherlock. It’s about other stuff that travels on the Ethernet transmission line for a ride and straight into you equipment. Mainly leakage—both high-impedance and low-impedance—and clock phase-noise.

 Either the data gets to it's destination recoverable or not . If there is to much "other stuff" then the data isn't recoverable. This applies to emails, bill pay through your bank, accessing medical records or music streams all of which go through dozens if not  hundreds of nodes. In audio if the DAC can read the data you're good to go but of course this is all basic stuff Mycroft. 

@thyname 

I'm not sure I follow what you mean by 'leakage'. Do you mean noise?

If so, the minds behind the Ethernet spec thought of this. That's why the cables use twisted pairs of wires and the physical connections are transformer coupled. Additionally, signalling is differential. This is all to reduce noise and ensure error-free data transmission.

Clock phase noise (i.e. jitter) will cause bit errors if at a high enough level. Fortunately, you can check for errors by using the 'netstat -e' command on Windows or the 'netstat -i' command on macOS. On my Macbook Pro, it currently shows zero errors out of ~3.8 M frames received.

@wsrrsw 

I'd like to believe you, but I'm afraid it just doesn't make any sense. If a PSU could improve the performance of a switch, don't you think the Cisco Systems of the world would advertise PSU upgrades for all their switches to get the 'best performance' and sell more product? I'm sure they wouldn't mind the additional revenue.

Here's a test you should try if your family is game - have someone switch out (see what I did there?) your JCAT one day without you knowing. Let them keep track of whether or not you heard a difference over ten trials. Could be fun.

@yage I have done an A/B test. I’m in N Cal and if you are too you are welcome to hear for yourself.

@wsrrsw 

If I'm ever in your neck of the woods, I'll be sure to take you up on the offer!

$800 for an unmanged 8-port switch?  I'm in the wrong business.  That's borderline criminal.