Single driver, no crossovers all the way. I'm open to adding supertweeters and subwoofers bit without a crossover to the single driver.
Single driver vs traditional 3 way loudspeakers
What you prefer , single driver , no crossover, full range loudspeakers powered by low power SAT or traditional 2-3 way design ?
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i certainly second omegas with tube amplification. My 3xrs are very musical, have tuneful bass, and are lighting fast. Very dynamic at low listening levels. If your jam is LOUD! that’s not what they are about. After listening sessions w multi-driver speakers, i am always happy to be back home in the sweet spot. |
All speakers have specific limitations and strengths. Single driver speakers do some things very well that (not many) multi-driver speakers can mimic; namely aligned, cohesive midrange magic. Which is what most flea-watt SET guys are seeking. Good match. I've had good luck with Omegas and Coherent speakers with mid-powered PP amps like the McIntosh MC225. Great sound. In my rooms they worked best in smaller rooms and at lower listening levels. Speaking of Omega, Louis Chochos claims that his most uncolored speaker models are those using his 4.5" drivers without whizzer cone. I have heard these but not had one in house so I can't really compare it to the Omega Alnico 6s I used to own. But it was a very nice sounding speaker as I recall. But as others have commented, it was rolled off at the extreme highs and limited on the bottom. If were doing single driver again I would strongly consider these, mated it to a pair of Rel T5is subs. |
My Merrill Zigmahornets are amazing! Yes, no bass below 50hz and no highs above 15khz with these 4" drivers. I don't care! The rest of the range is so natural and open that I never miss it. 10 watts is plenty to make them sing. These are lousy for theater but that's not the idea of them. Any doubters are welcome to come hear for yourselves how sweet it is. |
Only a preliminary assessment can be conducted based on one comparison of two different systems. If the speakers are similar enough in terms of efficiency and impedance curve, one could theoretically swap them and have the preference shift to the other speaker. That is how difficult it is to draw a firm conclusion in regard to assessing two different speakers at a show. Still, it's better than never hearing. The big draw, as should be expected, of a single driver speaker is coherence and very tight center imaging. Full range speakers do this exceptionally well as a lot. Expecting them to do other things as well as other technologies in speakers is unrealistic. They may, or they may not. Full range are often lauded for such wonderful midrange, but I find that one can get that with nearly any genre of speaker - if you work at it and optimize the system. It's easy to say the midrange is all that when there is no bass worth commenting because a swath of frequencies went bye-bye. Full range better than other technologies? No, not at all. It's just garnishing a different set of performance highlights in keeping with the design. It's to be expected. Switch to another genre of speaker and hear things that a full range can't touch. For example, a very well built multi-way can be superior in terms of resolution/definition. It's all part of the game, as with low/high power. |
can you compare Charney with Tektone or Volti ? I have never listened to Tektons but Volti yes at the 2015 NY show. Volti was exhibiting a few rooms down and across the hall from Charney. Volti had his large horns and bass unit, the name escapes me at the moment. All electronics were Vinnie Rossi’s Lio preamp and 200w amp with what I think was a Palmer TT. We listened to ZZ Top LaGrange at loud and clear volumes felt like I was riding a Harley. I felt the sound in my bones but wasn’t drawn into the record like the Charney Concerto does. Sounded somewhat flat in comparison and uninvolving. The Voltis rocked out and delivered clean clear sound no question but lacked the X factor for me. Just my opinion... |
I prefer a single full range driver to multiple drivers. I have a pair of Charney Audio horns and love what they do. Over the years I’ve had multiple driver towers, 2-way bookshelf’s, open baffle, etc... None have ever come close to the intimacy of a single driver horn. Charney Concerto and Lumaca with the 8” Voxativ and AER drivers will do exceptional full range sound. |
In my opinion a good "fullrange" driver can do many things well, but the frequency extremes are generally not among them. I'd be inclined to keep bass frequencies out of it and use a dedicated woofer, and to add a tweeter to improve the top-end dispersion (and extension if needed). There's a speaker company in New York that does this. I think their name is Bache Audio, or something like that. ;^) My first commercial effort fifteen years ago was almost that (6" Fostex + powered bass section + tweeter), but I made the fatal mistake of not high-pass-filtering the "fullrange" driver. Might give it another go some day. The best single-driver, truly fullrange speakers I've heard are the big SoundLab electrostats. Duke disclaimer: I'm a SoundLab dealer |
I’ve listened to several full range driver speakers and all have compromises. Either they are soft, or lack bass, or have whizzer cone artifacts. The Cube Audio Nenuphar look interesting with a 10" woofer and 3 whizzers.PHY has introduced a 6" driver that has no whizzer cone and yet is extended and smooth at high frequencies. Its hard to get it to go below about 60-70 Hz, but at that point you can use a sub with it quite successfully. I recommend keeping the deep bass out of that driver- to make the highs right it has a very lightweight voice coil that simply does not handle a lot of power. But it is 96dB at 1 watt, so you don’t need a lot of power to make it work in most rooms. |
@grinnell Single driver crossover less design assuming no any coil or capacitor involve, for 2 way like monitor DE Capo the woofer may connect direct with no crossover network, but tweeter using capacitor that meaning first order crossover design involve for tweeter only, They must using capacitor to avoid blow up tweeter . Most of 2 way design using one High quality coil ( Inductor ) for woofer also to get off cone break frequency. If De Capo dont using any coil i dont know is good or no . @auxinput Agree for 100 % , in all my design i am simply remove whizzer cones |
Single fullrange speakers suffer from bad distortion in the highs because the cones are not high quality enough to do high frequencies. You would never use a 4 inch dome as a tweeter in a 2 way speaker would you? Most tweeters are one inch. They need to be small and light to work well. Secondly small fullrange speakers cant do bass. Not just 50hz but even 150hz. What you need is at least two drivers. Each handles one half of the frequency range. A crossover device is then used to split the signal in half. Speaker design is not rocket science. |
Full range single drivers do have their following. That being said, it's incredibly difficult to engineer a single driver that will do a wide range (from low 50 Hz all the way up to high 20 kHz). Some can do this, but with compromises. I think the Mark Audio paper drivers are some of the most natural sounding full range, but they don't have good low bass response and the highs are soft and rolled off. I've listened to several full range driver speakers and all have compromises. Either they are soft, or lack bass, or have whizzer cone artifacts. The Cube Audio Nenuphar look interesting with a 10" woofer and 3 whizzers. I have not heard them directly, but youtube videos seem to reveal the typical whizzer cone effect. It's a type of echo or resonance or shouty effect. It's not perfect and is not going to be as transparent or clean as a traditional tweeter, but it provides a single driver full range scenario. The Seas Exotic 8 is another possibly decent full range solution. |
@grinnell you wrong , look stereophile specification Description: Two-way reflex-loaded loudspeaker for use with stands 26-28" high (not included). Drive-units: 1" impregnated fabric-dome tweeter, 7" woven carbon-fiber cone woofer. Impedance: 8 ohms. Sensitivity: 92dB/W/m. Frequency response: 44Hz-20kHz, ±3dB. Crossover frequency: 3kHz. ( that mean you got crossover ) |
Very good , but for my experience and design, if you choose Single driver , the baffle need big size
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/wide-baffles-and-baffle-step?highlight=baffle
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