Should people with no turntable or reel to reel be considered audiophiles?

What is the advantage of a balanced input or output for phono stages?

Good question. When you find one let us know.

"Glupson said only an audiophile can be deluded into thinking directional wire and wire elevators work, but before that said they don’t get sucked into that thinking. Which is it?"

I would like to clarify, but I am fully lost with that sentence. I somehow do not remember it. I would think that, overall, other people ("non-audiophiles") may be more prone to believing in whatever "audiophiles" say, cable elevators included, than audiophiles. Audiophiles waste more time thinking about these kinds of things. Normal people just shrug their shoulders.

Separate question that I haven't been able to get answered in another discussion about phono stages (not sure why). What is the advantage of a balanced input or output for phono stages? Is that feature only available on very expensive models? Is there a special MC voltage where this feature is helpful?

Sorry for the divergence, but this discussion seems to be getting a larger audience.

Glupson said only an audiophile can be deluded into thinking directional wire and wire elevators work, but before that said they don't get sucked into that thinking. Which is it?

French Fries is right on the money.

Vonharaland - people come to PCA meetings with all kinds of cars, especially if it's raining. I think the only technical requirement for actual PCA membership is if you own or once owned a Porsche. Nobody has ever been kicked out of a meeting for any reason. We're nice. I'm sure that includes former members who didn't pay their renewal dues.

Nicola - you ARE definitely an Audiophile, but not a Porschephile (or not even a car guy).

Who is barring the doors to the masses as far as Audiophiledom? The problem is most people in our society don't care about getting the highest quality - they care about the most convenience (and cost - maybe). It takes time to place a record on the platter, brush it for lint, take the albums into sleeves and then into their jacket, and then keep them perfectly vertical on the shelf. Twice as often for 45s, which sound better (another discussion). I think any Audiophile is at least a little OCD (as I'm sure I am) or else their albums probably sound like crap. As I said many times - it is a self defining term.

And yes 928 owners are certainly welcomed in with open arms. We like rare cars and they have mostly been covered to parts cars.

"...just as Fiat Dino and Lancia Stratos owners are embraced by Ferrari owners."

You mean Lancia Stratos owners actually accept to mingle with Ferrari owners? Now, that is what you call not being snobbish and letting mundane ones rub the shoulders with you.

What is next? Delta HF Integrale asking for approval at some beauty contest?

YES.

It is snobbish attitudes like this that keep our hobby from growing. We need less elitism and certainly less arrogance. We are not and should not be a chummy little club barring the door against the masses.

Given the current political environment, attitudes that created unspoken barriers to entry are what led to restricted communities, clubs, and employers.   

As as for the auto reference, 928 owners are embraced as Porschefiles, just as Fiat Dino and Lancia Stratos owners are embraced by Ferrari owners.

Absolutely yes. I can’t afford a Porsche, can’t drive a stick because of my knees, and don’t have a sports car because it’s not practical, but it doesn’t mean I’m not a car guy with an interest in higher performance vehicles. Likewise, with audio. My system is vintage mid-fi because I have to provide for my family and pay my mortgage, but that doesn’t keep me from reading everything I can about high end equipment and dreaming of the system I would buy if I hit lotto. As it turns out, I do own a turntable, but that’s mostly due to my age and the amount of LP’s I’ve carried around with me from my youth. I enjoy listening to my vinyl, but truth be told, I mostly listen to digital music because of the variety I can access online. And yes, I do consider myself an Audiophile.

Yes, of course.

Beating the Porsche Club metaphor a bit: If I drive my VW Bug to the meeting, will I be accepted. Yes again, if I brought beer..

Be it sight, sound, the smell, the touch.
There’s something,
Inside that we need so much,
The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sound,
Or the strength of an arquebus deep in the ground.
The wonder of flowers, to be covered, and then to burst up,
through tarmack, to the sun again,
Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing,
To lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing,
To have all these things in our memories hoard,
And to use them,
To help us,

To find...

Audiophile what does the WORD mean?

Audio, what is it?
sound, especially when recorded, transmitted, or reproduced.


Phile, what is it?
denoting fondness for a specified thing.


Now I know what a Audiophile(r) is. DO YOU?

A person who has a fondness for sound, especially, when recorded, transmitted, or reproduced.

It does NOT include or exclude, ANYTHING.

There is only one requirement, YOU, ME, Him or Her. One person!
No one can exclude you. No one can include you.

YOU and only you, can say whether you are, or are not a Audiofiler.

It's very Simple...

Regards...

An Audiophile is a Gearhead who also loves to listen to music. He/She will often spend more than they can comfortably afford in order to get a great sounding system. It's fine as long as they're enjoying the hobby. 

A Music Lover can listen to a Sony Walkman and be perfectly happy.
But they could also get curious about a shop that carries a pair of incredible sounding speakers, and then trying to decide if it's worth it to buy something like that.

sokogear,
Read it again, there is no contradiction as he is saying non audiophiles do not get sucked in....

boxer12,

Land Rover (short) used to be my dream car. It never became the reality. I only got as far as to be chauffeured in the back of the white ambulance-converted one (looked like it was from the 1960s-1970s, I guess). For a good reason.

I did ride in the Police 911, too. For no good reason.

Quick, no cheating on Google (although it will take you a little there, too), what files and to what resolution does a Burmester system in 911GTS play?

Audiophilic Porschephiles, you know it for sure. If you do not, you are neither.

asvjerry,
I think I dislike "bi-phile" even more than "double audiophile". How about "audiophile overachiever"?

glupson,
I’ve never owned a Porsche either. Have owned a Mercedes, BMW (car & bikes), & an old Land Rover which made me realize I had to suffer to enjoy the automobile hobby.

You said only an audiophile deludes themself after saying they wouldn’t get sucked into directional wire or Cable elevators.

Where is the contradiction?

You contradicted yourself saying an audiophile likes old equipment and tries to keep it if it sounds good to them, then you say audiophiles are tweakers who delude themselves with useless stuff (which is true much of the time).

Nothing wrong with old equipment fleschler. My speakers were made in 1981. I still have them because nothing better has come along that I like better. My original amps finally blew so they have been changed. Preamp and phono amp are 25 years old and I have no inclination to change them. It is time for a new turntable as the wow and flutter after cleaning is a not so hot 0.30 % . I've got a new belt coming but I have a feeling that won't fix it. It owes me nothing. 
I believe an audiophile is a music lover that manages his own system. A lot of people buy a system and use it. They never try new equipment or play with their gear. If something breaks they call the shop who deals with it. They are not about to care about their turntables wow and flutter and probably have no idea what that means. They also don't get sucked into directional wire and cable elevators. Only an audiophile can delude themselves into thinking that stuff works. 
Boom🎆

"Accuse" you of being an Audiophile? I didn't know it was a crime. I think the older the gear that you know about and appreciate (and hopefully some new stuff), the more serious of an Audiophile you are.

Same as with Porsches - the guys who know every model ever made (not counting SUVs) - their options and configurations by year, how many were produced/sold in US, etc. are the most knowledgeable/serious Porschephiles.

They typically drive an air cooled 911 of some flavor between 1968 and 1998 (or have one or more in the garage on a trickle charger) and spend a good deal of time (or used to) driving at the track, optimally as an instructor at Driver's Education events. Dr. Porsche would tell them to get the cars out of the garage and enjoy them.

I'm a lightweight - no track (too expensive and risky) and a water cooled engine daily driver, although I know a lot about 1999-2020 models of 911s, Boxsters and Caymans. Some about the older models, but never owned one.

My definition of an audiophile is someone who tries to achieve higher fidelity sound than an appliance type (Iphone and headphones, a built-in computer speaker, etc).  This definition permits a wide variety of attempts, whether successful or not, at attaining high fidelity to music (or sound in many cases).  People accuse me of being an audiophile because I have a higher end audio system but most of my equipment is 15 to 30 years old.   My tweaks are recent as are my latest cabling so, yes I am an audiophile but my primary concern is with music and it's reproduction to enhance my enjoyment.

"...I think the best is just waving the flag and listening to XM/Sirius "

Not many of those stock car stereo cassette players came with Sirius or XM.

In another car, I found Sirius/XM so bad that even news were unlistenable. Partly due to sound quality and partly due to content.

Burmester in Mercedes S Coupe is quite good.

Speaking of Burmester in this thread, check them out in non-Porsches like Cayenne, too.

So, you can be a Porschephile and audiophile at the same time. They put them in the little ones, too. How will you fit in it is another question and what your body will do to first, second, third, and eighteenth reflections is yet another question only audiophilic Porrschephiles may be able to answer.

Why do you have 350 records? Since you admittedly don’t care about sound quality, I would not consider you an audiophile.

Car or lack thereof has no impact. Probably are lots of audiophiles in NYC and other cities without cars.

I, for one, don't own a Porsche (Or a Merc, or a BMW, or what have you). I do have a collection of some 350LP's, but no TT...Does this mean I am not an Audiophile? That 'I am too lazy' to spin Vinyl? Not by a long shot. I enjoy my 400 CD's collection, and I have arranged myself a very modestly-priced set-up, which consists of a $25 USB Splitter, connected to a USB port at the back of my PC, from which a (cheap and cheerful!) RCA cable is connected to an (equally cheap!) USB cable. The entire setup cost me about $90. Now, before anybody feels the need to ridicule me, all I have to do is type, in Cortana, the name of any concert/album/song I wish to listen to, and I stream YouTube files (Yes,  I know, some of them are compressed, lossy, blah blah...) Truth is, most of the time, I enjoy an SQ that equals that of a modestly-priced TT, and often-times equal that of my (admittedly dated) CD Player. 

That people haVE NOT NOTHING BETTER TO DO.

lewm, almost all is worthless, not all.

R.

Nobody wants to listen to a bunch of mediocre crap. So, cut me some slack, Jack! 

These worthless threads get the most responses.  I wonder what that means.

Yes.  That like asking a McLaren owner if a Porsche is a sports car.

We want as good as possible for a given amount of $$ investment.

Just fine is not good enough for many of us.

Of course. It's a ridiculous, snob-driven question. The satisfaction for the audiophile is the sound of his or her best liking, not the media he or she plays to achieve it. Having been through and gotten rid of many tables and one hundred times as many albums, I find good quality digital sources played through with my S.E.T. or Push-Pull amps to suit just fine. This coming from the previous owner of a very high end salon that carried both analog and digital.

Perhaps sound quality in cars is underrated. Modern automobiles should have a reasonably good signal to noise ratio with the windows up 🔝 ROLLS ROYCE would be even better, especially with the oil-filled suspension system for mechanical isolation. Battery power, good acoustic space and crossover-less speakers - Voila! Audiophile grade SQ.

Rconk - its not about the brand - its about the car (says a self described Porschephile- although not a serious one-those guys only drive air cooled). I had an M3 (and other BMWs before that). I loved that car, but when it was time to change, BMW didn't offer the M3 and then blew it with the replacement that was a disaster.

Once I tried a 911, I said I would drive it until I couldn't get out of it. New Vette looks pretty good....but I have to have a sunroof, so that doesn't;t quallfy (TTop and Cab only). Thankfully I still can, can't say that about the NSX unfortunately which is better handling/more fun than the 911 in handling but nobody thinks about it because Acura can't market it.

I thought the comedy shows start at 9PM on Saturdays...

Nobody has called me too young for anything lately (thanks asvjerry), but I sure would like to see the turntable in a car contraption.

Audio in the car is the worst possible noise scenario imaginable. I don't even try to improve whatever branded system is installed by the car manufacturer (I am sure JBL or Bose or Mark Levinson of Bang and Olufson's best engineers had nothing to do with that crap).

Cheers to Glupson for trying with cassettes. Certainly continuous, but I think the best is just waving the flag and listening to XM/Sirius and getting some exposure to new things. It has spurred many an album purchase over the last 6 years or so.

No.  Are you kidding.  No No No No No...A TT is required period, even if you have a RR.  Your car comparison stinks.  Any real  Porsche  owner knows only 911 series cars counts.
(just kidding, don't really care what anyone thinks, just enjoy the music)
Cheers!

"...on each of two serious systems..."

I have no serious system. All of mine are there for entertainment.

No!

Anybody with 1 ear and a 'transistor radio' with an ear piece stuck on a 28 AWG wire who can snap their fingers to rock and roll is now an "audiophile" if they got a AAA battery.  And a real audiophile would drive a BMW, not a Porsche.  The "ultimate" machine!  And if side-by-side comparison of turntable to CD is not enough, I play a new vinyl record on each of two serious systems with two different turntables.  Each has it's own charm.  And I have good CD equipment too and we all know the best thing about CDs is that you don't have to get up and turn the record over!   
And if you think this is all a load, well, you are not an audiophile, so it does not matter.

Yes.

Am I being tusk shamed? 😩

geoffkait,

Shame on you for wondering the same as I did.

One wonders when tusks doesn’t mean tusks? 😛 Well someone had to say it.

looscannon,

A and B was referring to your example of pain. Anyway, to cut it short, it might have been a clumsy analogy.

I have been around the world, nobody ate me. I also have no friends who are looking forward to kill people. Maybe we are not typical crowd, that is true.

"Here she comes walkin, lookin like a zoo, Hi Ella, high Ella Guru."

Avs jerry, "His excited eyes from within the dark interior glazed
                  Watered in appreciation of his thoughtful cleveration.

Glupson, There is no A or B. It is a continuum from dead to shrieking. 
Wrong crowd? Have a look around. The Captain was right. The problem with being globalist is that most of the rest of the world is Localist. And if you step into their locality they will eat you alive.

jji666, what you have correctly stumbled over is typical human male behavior. Like baboons they shriek at each other. The last one to get hoarse gets the girl. Mike L said it himself, something like "chicks dig cool turntables." They love those 12 inch tonearms.

pcrhkr "yes" what?  Everybody here started out by loving music. I think that is a given. The rest is typical human male behavior. 

looscannon,

:Glupson, and anything in between. There is no A or B. It is a continuum from dead to shrieking."

That is a new development in pain transfer. You shattered it all. No more A, B, and C fibers with their different structure?

"...miller, soko, and robert all waiving their tusks around at each other."

jji666 wins the award for the most imaginative post of the week on an ever increasingly bizarre forum site.

I report that I am not trying to ascend anyone in this forum.

Avsjerry, "His excited eyes from within the dark interior glazed
                Watered in appreciation of his thoughtful cleveration."

Glupson, and anything in between. There is no A or B. It is a continuum from dead to shrieking. 
Wrong crowd? Have a look around. The Captain was quite right. 

jji666, what you have correctly stumbled over is typical human male behavior. Like baboons they scream at each other. The last one to get hoarse gets the girl. Mike even said it himself, something like," chicks dig cool turntables." 

"Here she comes walkin, lookin like a zoo. Hi Ella, high Ella Guru."   

YES!