The tech who loaned me his UX250 (aka 50 Tube) amp, with a 12AU7 in front + a 6BH7 (??) , has incredible pure Cobalt out trans. ($1k+ each back in 2000, now no longer in production). . he will help me set up the 2A3.
Has a AX+AU my 2 fav front tubes anda quad of 2A3's.
My speakers are pure neutrality, no coloration, no distortion,.
So whatever amp/ source you plug in, will register the nuances inherent in the circuit.
Will be very interesting.
USA has pure cobalt out trans which gives the edge in power, but the china 2A3 has a 2 tubes per channel.
Gonna be interesting and will post a YT upload with comments,
Then make a critique, or insulting comment. Not til you actually heard them live.
Hearing something live has never stopped you from critiquing other speakers such as Vandersteen, Wilson, Dali, Zu, Tekton, etal. In fact, you have made that pronouncement over and over and over. The same thing is good for you too. Besides, you continuously remind everyone that your videos capture the sound in your room. It is fair game. And as many have said, your system does not come close to sounding good in your videos.
seems rather bright. If you don’t mind answering, what’s on your back wall?
Tracy Chapman - New Beginning, is a spectacular recorded & well written album btw
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Was thinking this same thing last night late. Some sort of wall treatment would not hurt. back wall awkward has a closet door and door and 2 book cases along side wall rear.
How about this
I get attic insultaion, and ghang 2 strips from ceiling to fllor, just in front of 2 bookcases,
this will prevent some waves from bouncing along back corners and such.
Will do this treatment today,, I think it will dampen some echos and such.
Thanks for the tip. And yes will order Tracy Chapman today.
Thanks
Hearing something live has never stopped you from critiquing other speakers such as Vandersteen, Wilson, Dali, Zu, Tekton
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dont need to hear Teks, Zu’s. I can look at the design, cone materials. Not for me, There are resonances and spikes in both designs, I can easily spot it. The YT vids only confirm what I suspect. My DL’s are pure neutral like the Seas Excel. Zu’s have no xovers, a good tghing, but the cones are some sort of paper composite, I avoid anything paper.
has to be wood fibers, or banana/Kanuf leaf fibers in my FR cones.
Because the DIY FR Committee has banned such a design. After I showed THE FR Club my design was a stunning success, ( I told them I really believe I have the best midrange sound in the world..,, they promptly booted me off the DIY forum,,no big deal, I did not learn even 1 thing over there about FR systems)) , Ever heard of Thinking OUTSIDE the box. Creativity is something that can make NEW things happen. I never ever follow the crowd in things audio. In 10 yrs you will see my idea take off. Just BECAUSE no one has tried a dual FR system, why equate this with *not doable*. I follow my own ideas.
@mozartfanMan, you're all over the place, too many bold pronouncements about this or that being best. I love SET, and have two actual SET amps and one pp. Own or have owned two 845, one 300B, one 2a3 for SET. For pp, EL34, 6550, KT88, KT120, 6CA7. To say any of these tubes or amp topology is best simply untrue. I've enjoyed both pp and SET and all these tubes at one time or another.
I'm Verstappen and Red Bull fan, not into Hamilton or MB, but I'd have to say Hamilton and MB got ripped. Hamilton increasing his lead with worn out hard compound tires, he was cream of crop that day. What officials did was NASCAR shenanigans, fake competition.
If this is Yaqin MS-2A3, makes no claim of being SET. states its PP, I see claims of 10-14wpc.
Whatever Yaqin model it is, likely combo of decent parts and others needing upgrading. That's been my experience with chifi relatively lower price equipment. Hopefully, they have decent design, in looking at Chinese 845 amps a few years ago, some were grenades just waiting to explode.
I can understand race control wanting the race and the season championship to be decided by actual racing, hence the bending of the rules and conventional practice. What they should have done, to be fair to all the drivers, and to conclude the race with a lot of green flag racing to the end, is red flag the race and let everyone pit and get fresh tires. Hamilton would have been in the lead, as he should be, and Verstappen, if he stayed close enough, would have DRS after two laps would have been able to attempt a pass. I think Masi botched the call by not doing this.
What they should have done, to be fair to all the drivers, and to conclude the race with a lot of green flag racing to the end, is red flag the race and let everyone pit and get fresh tires. Hamilton would have been in the lead, as he should be, and Verstappen, if he stayed close enough, would have DRS after two laps would have been able to attempt a pass. I think Masi botched the call by not doing this.
Toto was wrong for asking Masi not to send out a safety car when Latifi crashed but Christian was screaming at Masi to let the lapped cars pass the safety car. The very same cars that Lewis had to pass to get that 12 second lead. Past races always finished in the order they were in prior to a crash with the lead driver put at a disadvantage from allowing all the trailing cars to close any gaps.
If the race ended on a safety car, so be it. Done all the time, until now. Look at Max winning that race in the pouring rain with only 2 laps completed and getting points for it. That was a joke.
Masi changed his decision after being screamed at by Red Bull to let the lapped cars pass out of the way letting Max drag race Lewis on much fresher tires without the 12 second lead Lewis had before the crash.
Max's teammate, Perez, apologized to Hamilton. Russell said it was unacceptable. Riccardo said it was a f*cked up thing to do. Other drivers said it was done for TV to make it more exciting and likening it to NASCAR (which is the ultimate insult).
From now on, no one can talk directly to the Race Control but to an intermediary instead, who will relay the gist of the complaint to Masi, who's been doing some odd things all season. Not the way to run a race.
I agree. Of all the possible alternatives, the one chosen by Masi made the least sense. If there was not enough time for ALL the backmarkers to come around the leaders before the restart, he could have left them all in place, including the four between Verstappen and Hamilton. That would have made for an interesting race because Verstappen would be able to clear them relatively quickly, which would have given him a chance to pass, but not given him such an easy path to a victory that was unearned.
I still think red flag and either a standing restart or a safety car restart with more than one racing lap remaining would have made the most sense.
Why settle for a wimpy 2 to 6 watt SET tube amp, when you can buy a nice Sugden A21se signature solid state SINGLE ENDED CLASS A...@30 watts 8 ohm/40 watts 4 ohm. One word can describe how it sounds....sweeeeeeet......
My problem with single ended amps is that evn using a triode they are inherently non linear due to single ended topolgy. They compress the bottom half of a signal relative to the top half.
I heard that amplifier years ago at CES. It’s a good sounding amplifier. I don’t believe that it extracts the best that a SET can provide because fthe output transformers are not exclusively committed to the SET circuit. There’s some inevitable compromise in order to accommodate the push-pull circuit needs. Still a worthy effort.
Being happy on here is an uphill battle, be strong!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ AS you know, and we all know.
This is a **Cancel Culture Epoch*** Translate,, **If you are sasying, believing something that does not agree with what I believe,, you are offically canceled, deleted, voided..** The DIY FR discussion forum, has canceled me , banned me from THEIR chat forum, I can not post on DIY any longer,, Why?? I did something against their rules, regulations, their beliefs. Its a longgg story how I got banned. But trust me, Cancel Culture is all over this earth right now. I aplogize if I am stepping on some audiophiles toes around here. My speaker has beena life long pursuit and I found it just after my last confrontal with death,
Seems I did not pass away in the emergency room operation, not just yet, until I found what I was always looking for Near perfect midrange.
This is part of my desire to remain alive,,, to complete my task of findinf, discovering if need be via a DIY design, a near perfect midrange speaker.
Death almost cheated me of my dreams.
Sorry if I am offending folks opinions here. But I am what I am. Nice day everyone. I will be back with more news on the 2A3 + FR system performance. Ice bucket me all you want, the mods here know I have not once snided nor offended any member in my 20+ years stink here in Audiogon. I practice civility as modus operandi.
I know what you guys are thinking,,, how is it even remotely possible a DIY speaker, dual FR has a midrange that can match,, no wait, SURPASS the mids of a Wilson, Dali, Sonus Faber, or Rockport,, all in the mega $$$ price tag???
Impossible!!!
WEll believe what you wish to believe.
I know what I hear.
There is no xover/low sens speaker gonna match a higher end FR in the complete midrange band width.
I've gone over this more than a dozens x's here on audiogon and I aint gonna repeat myself.
A couple of quick observations but first, congratulations on your health and congratulations on finding what you were looking for.
I have a pair of single driver, set driven full range speakers and they are extraordinary. So, I agree with you in principle. They are not, however, the pinnacle nor are yours. Full stop. They are what they are and on certain types of music I can see how some, maybe even you or I, might believe they have found the holy grail. What they do well, they do well. They are not the best overall speaker that I have in my home, those are two way with an exquisite crossover in an exquisite, well thought out cabinet developed by a respected designer using tried and true principles with exceptional parts quality.
It's awesome that you love your setup but your credibility wanes as your hyperbole rises when you discuss the absolutes of your belief that your home grown speakers exceed the capabilities of all comers. It's cool the like what you like, as well you should. You should be very proud of your accomplishments and leave it at that. Just enjoy your system and leave the crowning of a champion to those who have the chops. Nobody has the best but for many of us, we have WHAT's best for each of us. Warm regards.
Thank you for pointing out the Manley PSET-PP amp that can operate both topologies,. I do wonder, however, if it can really deliver optimal performance for both types, particularly because of the specific demands for a good SET transformer. Because the full DC current drawn by the output tube must flow through the primary of the output transformer, the transformer must be designed to handle this current without core saturation. This requirement is usually met by an air gap in the magnetic circuit, which results in reduced inductance which can be compensated for with more iron and more turns in the primary. These compensatory measures would not be as desirable for PP operation.
I do wonder if this type of convertible amp is somewhat like an amphibious car--it can be both a car and a boat, but it does neither very well.
You make salient points. The amphibious vehicle is a good analogy. However as I noted above, that amplifier was a good sounding unit. So I must give Manley Labs credit for this unique achievement.
I had a pair of Cary PP 2A3 monos back in the mid 90’s that were great sounding and fairly energetic.. Too bad the reliability/quality wasn’t a priority with them.
I found Cary had some real gems in their product lineup.. but I had problems with almost everything I owned by them.. They rushed one design out the door and started on another.. Just the opposite of what a fine company like Pass would do..
I went through 3 Cary 306 SACD players before I found one that was half way reliable.. even that one skipped and stopped loading properly a year later.. They’re just up the street from me, but I got tired of their lack of quality control and never looked back..
With the Manley, which sounded better in the setup you heard--the pushpull or single-ended setting?
I am pretty much agnostic when it comes to best topology. I've heard quite a number of very good amps employing all sorts of approaches. Between my pushpull 45, pushpull 349 and parallel single-ended 2a3 amps, my favorite is the pushpull 349. There are things I do like about the parallel SET amp, but the fullness of the 349 amp carries the day.
Among all the amps I've listened to in a familiar system, my favorite is a custom-built output transformerless amp--the sound was extremely vivid and lively, without having an unnatural edginess to it. My next favorite is a pushpull 252 amp (a real Western Electric 59A amp) that was also extremely lively and full sounding. I heard the 252 amp side by side with the Audio Note Kageki (the parallel SET amp that I own), and by comparison, the Kageki sounded thin and drab. The best SET amp I heard was an Audio Note Gaku-On. The Gaku-On sounds good with just about any speaker I heard it playing; .
@larryiI'm jealous of all the amps you've heard and own! I also never knew there was a 349 tube until your last post. I've heard a pushpull 45 amp sounding great as well as my own pushpull 2a3 amp, also loved a Cary pushpull 2a3 integrated I was loaned for a week once. @charles1dadGlad you had a chance to hear that Manley it sounds like a cool amp.
The 349 is now quite rare and expensive, although there is a reasonably priced drop in alternative (6V6?). The amp also runs 348 as input and driver tubes. Both types now sell for somewhere around $1600 each for used tubes that test “strong.” My stereo amp runs four of each type. The only good news is that the tubes are run gently so they seem to last forever. The amp is essentially a stereo rebuild of a Western Electric 133 amp. It has the correct input and output transformers for that amp type as well as some other vintage parts.
The sound of my 349 amp is similar to a 6L6 amp. I generally like that tube and KT 66 tubes as well.
The listening experience was quite some years ago at CES. At that time I actually felt the push-pull was the better sounding choice. I just don't believe you can serve 2 masters equally due to inevitable compromise design and implementation decisions to do both. Could be SET was more affected by the dual purpose/circuit design.
I'm a SET amplifier guy but without any question push pull (Particularly with DHT tubes) can sound superb. I heard a Jadis amplifier using the very common el 34 and it was exceedingly good sounding. Talent level of the builder is such a huge factor.
Of course you will mozartfan, you always do.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Boiled down,
I despise xoverlowsens box speakers,
Lets just all get along here, eh?
Nothing wrong with strong opinions.
So long as we keep civil.
If you hate FR, go ahead and explain.
tubes) can sound superb. I heard a Jadis amplifier using the very common el 34 and it was exceedingly good sounding.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I wished the Defy had
1) individual Bias pots for each tube
2) accepted EL34’s
3) 4 tubes per channel, not the 6. ,
Back to reality, I really did not note much dif between my techs EL34 (something like the Dynaco design), his Allen Organ KT120 mono blocks, and the Kt88;s. ’Blind testing, you’d be lucky which is which. Readinga DIYers offerings on Aliexpress, His dual 300B amp and dual 2A3, your choice, he went on to say, **both the pure SET and this dual tube per channel PP design, one can not say, either is superior to the other...** Paraphrase mine. After reading his comments on his amps, I’ve altered my opinion about PP in both SET tube designs and KT designs. . The initial emotions of experiencing the super linear, magical midrange on certain recordings, , has to be considered as just 1 option for high fidelity. Should be monday when I have the 2A3 PP amp, up N running/biased properly. I*f I find its a keeper, I’ll order the TJ Full Music *mesh*,, Although my tech is not buying the tube is a true mesh. At least not like the mesh plates made back in the early days of tube manufacturing.
I thought I was buying a SET, when in fact turned out to be a PP ,,hahaha, toss of the dice, as no one had any youtube or online review of the amp,,, hahaha,
1st
I plan to make about 10-20 YT vids over the comming year.
Proclamations are difficult to back up. I will say however that DHT tubes such as the 2A3 are terrific sounding when well implemented in an amplifier, be it SET or push pull topology. Congratulations!
Catching up, what a surprise this turned out to be, whole bunch here actually seem to understand Lewis Hamilton was robbed, and Verstappen handed a world championship. All the drivers knew it was a cluster in real time as it was happening, as their live radio shows and the more experienced (Vettel, Alonso, etc) the more they knew it. Which being so obvious makes me all the more pleasantly surprised, and credit where credit's due. May be hope for some of you guys yet.
Proclamations are difficult to back up.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
True
'I've nor heard
every EL34,88,120,150 tube amp ever made. based on a few models,, these tubes **pretty much** all sounded the same.At least to me ears.
hardlya nuance difference.
THe pre tubes in each design responded much more to preference.
I'm a Tele fan.
So like yeah,,here I am thinking 2A3 wow doube tubes,, read the descript,, now that i think about it, it might have added the one word PP, but also thought it did say, SET...The Inet only mentioned the 2A3 in a SET design,, so I'm thinking its a SET tube.
Someone here on Audiogon, noted it may be a PP,, My tech confirmed and brought the ad up on his computer,,anyway, he said, **you might like this chinese budget amp,,then again...**.
Yaquin has always been in my mind like Ming Da, Dared, the low budget end of chinese gear..
WEll turns out I much prefer this 2A3 in a PP vs all KT varieties, (exception is Jadis' new KT170, which looks promising but at 10x's the price of this lil Yaquin..).
Anyway, listening to a classical cd recorded poorly from Russian Archives, sounded fantastic on the 2A3.
Faith Hill never sounded as good.
There is no doubt, this 2A3 out performa s , all KT designs.
I've yet to hear Full Music Mesh plates (my tech mentioned its nota true mesh, more like perforated metal..), still from what I've read the Mesh offer nice resolutions.
The Jadis Defy7 will be great in more comples symphonic orch,,but for all other music, this 2A3 will beat out the Defy.
I've yet to hear Full Music Mesh plates (my tech mentioned its nota true mesh, more like perforated metal..), still from what I've read the Mesh offer nice resolutions. The Jadis Defy7 will be great in more comples symphonic orch,,but for all other music, this 2A3 will beat out the Defy.
Your tech is correct, perforated metal plate rather than a true mesh design. EML makes a genuine mesh tube, they are costly. You could still really appreciate the sound of the Full Music perforated plate tube once acquired. I can understand why you are attracted to DHT tubes (101D in my preamplifier and 300b amplifiers). Pure musical beauty if implementation is done well. I feel that you're on a good path.
^^^+1 Totally agree! I also prefer the 2A3 over a 300B in a pure SET amp.^^^
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yet how often do I see 300B and 2A3 mentioned as options offered in a design. AS though they were closely matched in terms of performance.
My tech urges me to avoid the 300B in any part of a design, (845 w 300B as driver). He has no issues with the 2A3.
Then again there are fans of the 300B that love their pure linear SET soundstage. My tech mentioned the 300B original intent for the tube was telecom usage. Meaning fq cut off in both ends of the band width spectrum. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
^^^^Your tech is correct, perforated metal plate rather than a true mesh design. EML makes a genuine mesh tube, they are costly. You could still really appreciate the sound of the Full Music perforated plate tube once acquired.^^^^
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes I’ve seen the EML’s , out my budget. The TJ FM *mesh* is definetly a different material, and will offer a different soundstage vs his NOS RCA’s 1940’s he is offering me. great price at $100 each. But is the TJ FM pseudo mesh plates that interest me most. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I should also mention, last time I heard the KT88 was in the Thors and also a single FR speaker. Which makes the testing imbalanced/skewed. Adding a 2nd 6 inch FR with the 2A3 alters the testing. IOW the only way to properly test a KT88 PP to a @a# PP, is with same exact speakers. This may be 6 months before I retube the KT88 amplifier. Preliminary guess is that the 88 will perform better in a Dual FR /double tweeter system vs the previous Single FR/and Thor system. Yet I strongly suspect the 2A3 to come out nuances superior vs the KT88. How each perform in complex symphonic, is anyones guess. Stay tuned.,,,plenty more to come....
@mozartfanwhich flavor of ice cream does your tech tell you to eat? The 300b in the right circuit, just like the 2a3, can be exceptional…but not all of them. Full range drivers can sound exceptional…but not all of them. This is from a happy 300b, full range single driver speaker owner. Its just not my only system.
My tech urges me to avoid the 300B in any part of a design, (845 w 300B as driver). He has no issues with the 2A3.
Then again there are fans of the 300B that love their pure linear SET soundstage. My tech mentioned the 300B original intent for the tube was telecom usage. Meaning fq cut off in both ends of the band width spectrum. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have no doubt that you have a very competent and experienced tech who has earned your trust and admiration. As you know opinions abound in the audio world. Everyone likes something and dislikes something else. 300b is no exception to this.
There are so many different 300b amplifier choices from multiple builders at prices ranging from 500.00 to 100,000.00. There are easily a dozen different 300b tube choices to place in an amplifier. I would very kindly encourage you find an opportunity to hear a good quality 300b amplifier and decide for yourself.
We all hear differently and certainly possess varying preferences and desires. My 300b SET mono blocks provide sublime sound quality. Sometimes generalizations can be too broad brushed. In my opinion you can't go wrong with either the 2A3 or 300b (Or 845, 211, 45 etc.). Builder /designer talent and successful execution are the major determinants of component sound quality.
My preference for the 2A3 SET has more to do with horns/lowthers . In my experiences, these “shouty” type sensitive speakers can often be too bright and harsh. The 2A3 seems a bit more unforgiving, albeit with less drive too.
On cans, they both show their strong points. the 300B sounds faster with more drive, the 2A3 is less energetic with more mid bloom..
for years I tried to scale out the SET sound of these tubes, to achieve their sound on a more conventional speaker/setup. They are magical indeed.. it’s their simplicity that makes them so special.
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