Seeking to Upgrade Subwoofer from SVS SB2000

I using Raven Audio Reflection Amp with their Corvus Speakers and was using two SVS SB2000 in living room and talked to SVS about my siting position and room and they suggested one SVS SB16 and I was so sure I wanted Dual Sub Woofers in room and after setting up the Single SB16 I am so glad went this direction and the sub produces some nice punch and really fills in were the Corvus speakers lack..

How big is the room?

My upgrade sub budget for 2 subs are $1000.00 total. The Martin Logan is adjusted properly and I find the bass a bit weak. The current 2 subs help, but I would like to do better.

Budget is too weak for a sub upgrade. You can’t do any better than your current SB2000s with such a budget (i.e., there’s nothing wrong with your subs).

I would wager that it has everything to with incorrect sub placement and incorrect integration with your mains.....because those 2 subs should give you enough bass to hit the brown-note (better than miralax) if you cranked it all the way up.

Without knowing anything about your room dimensions and whether you have a measurement mic or not....try as follows.

If you have them on the front stage, move them on both side walls behind your listening position (not too far behind). It should cancel out some key modal nulls and give you a feeling of envelopment. You probably have the crossover setting very low because you saw the printed frequency response spec from the manufacturer perhaps. Turn the crossover up fairly high, 100 hz or so (you won’t localize a whole lot with the dual subs in such a position). Last but not the least, fine tune that phase knob. Last i recall, SVS gave you a continuously variable rotary phase knob, not a rudimentary 0/180 flip switch like Rel or something...

My room size is 12 x 18.

I was considering SVS SB 4000 which is on sale for $1299.00 each.

I would buy 2, get a $200.00 discount for the second. I am very close to my $2000.00 budget.   

Thank you. 

This could be your luck day. I had 2 SVS subs tried all kinds of trick tweaks to integrate them. Go to VeraFi Audio >speakers as subwoofers>Vanguard Caldera 12" @ $399. Extremely well built and designed. Lots of great products at down to earth prices

@deep_333 +1 The OP can buy two more SB-1000 subs and place them behind him as you suggest. This is the sub swarm concept. Spending $2K is a waste of money when the OP already has a capable pair of subs. A swarm of four or six subs will give smoother and more enveloping bass.

@deep_333 @jasonbourne71 +1  The swarm or distributed bass array of at least four subwoofers will essentially mitigate the rooms standing waves. No need for critical bass mode positioning while lessoning the load for each of the subs. 

Once I got my dissimilar subs gain balanced I found the room lock simply stunning.

Nice system selection by the way.

I recently added two F12 Rythmik subs to my system: Rogue RP-7 tube preamp, Odyssey monobloc power amps, Fyne -702 speakers.  The improvement was huge. total was just under $2500, close to your price for the two SVS 4000 subs.  And, they made here in he USA.

Hi, what I did recently I researched the top subs on the market and found my interest with the Rel. I contacted the Rel company and I sent Jacob the list of all my components and pictures and dimensions of my room from every angle. He got back to me promptly and suggested the best model from my specs and where to position the Rel S510 in the room. The service was excellent and quick. I bought the S510,was so impressed on how it upgraded my SQ that six days later I went out to buy a second one.With one, I was 80 % near the gates of heaven but with the second one I entered 100%.The coherence with everything together just took my system to another level. The Rels are a fantastic subwoofer company with lots of different models to suit one’s needs.

Your current subs should deliver plenty of bass.  Bass in a room is very dependent on sub placement.  In your room the most likely best placement is on the short 12' wall.  Place each sub up against the wall and 4' away from the front corners.  Give that a try.  Depending on where your main speakers are located in the room, you may have to play with Phase to deal with the time delay between the mains and subs.  Also make sure you don't have the two subs out of phase from one another, if they are they can be cancelling each other out.   Also don't cross your subs over too low.  My experience has been the crossover points typically need to be between 50 and 80 Hz.  Below 50 Hz, output can drop way off and above 80 Hz you can start audibly hearing where the subs are located, which is undesirable most times.

Recommend you take a look at Hsu subwoofers.

@deep_333 +1 The OP can buy two more SB-1000 subs and place them behind him as you suggest. This is the sub swarm concept. Spending $2K is a waste of money when the OP already has a capable pair of subs. A swarm of four or six subs will give smoother and more enveloping bass.

4 is better, of course... but, not many guys go the 4 sub route, if they’re relatively frazzled by the thought of even using a single subwoofer. I am assuming his speakers are set up on the 12 ft dimension and he’s sitting right in the widthwise center of the room, which would imply that he’s sitting right on top of a big ~47hz modal null and probably the ~63 hz modal null lengthwise...with some coupling going on to the heightwise nulls......which made him wonder where all the bass went.

Assuming that his mains woofers extend relatively low with some room gain (serve as ’lackluster subwoofers’ at the least... i.e. he has 2 proper subwoofers + 2 lackluster subwoofers for a total of 4), he could atleast cancel some of these problematic nulls by side wall placement (cancel out the widthwise null entirely). Depending on where the subs went behind his seat, he would cancel out a couple of lengthwise modes as well.

The whole cosmetic scenario (because that’s what everyone does on the forum pictures) of subs sitting on the front stage next to the mains didn’t do him any favors, it would seem. Last, but not the least, he does have full variable phase control on his SVS subs to faciliitate the removal of such modal nulls when placed in favorable locations.

Hopefully, at the end of this exercise, he realizes that subs are not just for "adding some bottom end", but, are very effective room treatment devices instead.

I agree that placement, integration and a properly treated room make all the difference in subwoofer impact. If you haven’t already, your best $ spent is on a Umik1 and downloading REW to get a baseline of what your room is doing, the in-room response of your speakers without subs, and then bump in your subs and integrate from there. As previously stated, you likely have a phase issue making the subs cancel out the speakers. That could be just at your listening position, but possibly across the whole room. Spend most of your attention here to get best results with whatever sub used.

All that being said, I recently went from using two SB2000 which were very well integrated over to a single GR Research sealed sub. I did lose the tiniest bit of stereo separation (higher crossover point and small listening room) but the sub is SO much more tactful punch, articulate and musical. The notes come through worlds better and the punch of a kick drum has snap to it instead of a thud, especially through heavy repeated hit passages like double bass metal drumming. Having now heard it, servo subs are so much more controlled and punchy that I can’t go back. Also having a PEQ built into the plate amp really helps control any room modes and integrate EASILY into your system. If you watch the used market, they do come up for a real bargain from time to time.

Just my $0.02.

-Lloyd

There are a lot of different opinions regard SVS subwoofers. I own a SB3000 which I have low pass filter set at 33hz with my Dynaudio Emit 50s. I had tried several crossover settings from 50hz as recommended by SVS down to 40-42hz as recommended by my dealer. After an enjoyable afternoon of experimenting, when I settled on 33hz, the speakers disappeared. My room is 12 x 22 with 8 ft ceiling. I also have four GIK Soffit Bass Traps in the front corners. The volume level on the sub is set at -20. The soundstage is deep and wide with great clarity. Everything sounds so much better. I think the subs you have now could achieve similar results with a little tweaking on placement and settings.

servo subs are so much more controlled and punchy

Is a servo different from a regular plate amp? Or is it just a holdover term from the days of Apogee and IRS-V?

Just curious. Thanks! 

HSU Research.

My apologies for my request. I originally said in my post that I wanted to spend $1000.00 in total. The number was $2000.00 for 2 subs.  I am willing to spend $1000.00 per subwoofer and as of now I am interested in the SVS SB-4000, which is on sale for $1299.00 each with a $200.00 discount if you buy two.

Your idea of a pair of SB-4000 is a very good one. As an owner of six SB16Ultras (2 stacks of 3 each) I'd say if you can stretch your budget, the SB16Ultras would be an even better choice and they are on discount now too, since the release of SVS' new 17" flagship sub.

I've used my SVS "six-pack" with Sonus Faber Aidas, Wilson Audio Alexx and now Avantgarde Duo SD G3 and I can guarantee you will not run out of quality, musical bass regardless of your main speaker choices in the future, even with a single pair of SB16Ultras

I am unaware of any other high-end brand of subwoofer at the budget you want to stay within that would compete with SVS.

I use 2 Rel 510s with my Martin Logan 11A Impressions. You might get some used nearer your budget? I have also had great success with diy subs.