@2pinacolada
The room is 50% of the sound, make sure part of your budget goes into treating your room.
The Rotel 1585 has 5 channels I think. That means you will be able to bi-amp whatever you choose. I would get a second SVS pb4000 for better bass response.
Finally if you have a local dealer try comparing an electrostaic like the Martin Logan Classic ESP 9, a classic like the Klipsch Cornwall, and then something known for extreme accuracy like the ATC SCM40.
When you compare speakers that are very different you will hopefully learn which is suited for your taste.
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Happy owner here. If you can find an Ultima Salon 2 for less than 60k it’s a bargain. Perfect to complement it with a SVS 4000 to even the bass modes in your room. You need to control it all with a fine eq like you find in Roon. Not sure the Rotel has power enough. End game.
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I second @kota1 ’s advice above although I’d hold off on the 2nd sub for now.
The room is, indeed, a major player in the sound, check out Grimani , an expert in the matter.
Trying out several speakres is also mandatory in my book as well as great fun. 8k entitles you to having fun before you spend!
Finally the F228b: they have very good FR characteristics, I can’t say how much of a value for money they are. When it comes to Revel I much prefer the Salons.
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B&W CM10 is the equivalent of the current series 702 S3, which retail for $7,000 a pair right now. I used to own both CM10 S1 then the Revel F228Be. Yes, I think the Revel sounded a bit better overall, certainly different, but not sure if it is a big upgrade from your CM10, assuming they are still in good working condition. IMO
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The room is 50% of the sound, make sure part of your budget goes into treating your room.
Agreed.
Finally if you have a local dealer try comparing an electrostaic like the Martin Logan Classic ESP 9, a classic like the Klipsch Cornwall, and then something known for extreme accuracy like the ATC SCM40.
I would take the Revel over any of the above but..........................
When you compare speakers that are very different you will hopefully learn which is suited for your taste.
............ this is good advice.
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I personally would buy something better than the Rotel. You already have nice speakers, work on your electronics for better system synergy.
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I am a proud owner of a pair of Revel Performa F228be, and while I haven’t heard the variety of speakers that many on this board have, I can tell you they are a wonderful pair of speakers----crystal clear mid-range and highs, great imaging/soundstage, and great grip. I added a Rythmik F12se sub to improve the low-end, but I can predict with confidence that you’ll be impressed with the Revels.
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I don't know much about the 7-8K range 9 (used). A lot of incredible speakers under 5K. Revel is a great value, high quality low-ish price but far from the most musical.
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So you guys think maybe it’s better if I get a second subwoofer or better amplifier. Parasound a21+ or Rotel 1590?
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Really depends on what improvements you’re looking for and what sound characteristics are most important to you. Making speaker recommendations before knowing these things is nothing more than a random crapshoot and you’ll just get a lot of what other people like, which may have nothing to do with your tastes. Just my $0.02 FWIW.
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@soix +1
randomly suggesting brands may be more confusing than helpful. You know what you like, what you want to improve, replace your weakest link first. What's your source, room size, preferred music?
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I spent almost a year looking, learning, and listening where I could. I ended up with a pair of Revel Ultima 2, Studio 2’s, I bought used, and couldn’t be happier. I paired the Revels with (2) Rythmik F12SE subwoofers. I really like what they deliver. I’m all 2-channel in this, and am now finding myself mostly streaming, no vinyl. Odyssey Kismet power amp and Hegel preamp.
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Buy the best Luxman Integrated you can swing.
Speakers are not your anchor.
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mr pina colada
don’t ask here, go listen to different speakers
you haven’t given enough info for anyone here to really help you
revels are fine -- as are dozens of other expensive speakers -- which one will please you? we haven't a clue based on what little you have said
i do agree, though, with real nice speakers, your rotel is just not good enough
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Heard the Revel Salon 2. Really good but kinda boring if that makes any sense just like my Pioneer (tad) S-1ex were. I hear they are a bitch to drive but I heard them on some big expensive monoblocks if I remember correctly. The new 228be are supposed to be fairly easy to drive I think and would probably serve you better without drastically upgrading your amp/front end. Top floor on the Salon with some heavy duty electronics I’m guessing is higher but that’s just a guess. Also again don’t know but the 228be “may” be ammendable to tubes if you ever want to go there.
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Rotel is the weak link. Revel speakers need good quality power. If you can find a pair of Revel Studio 2’s used for a similar price, I would get the studios plus you will need a quality amp but you won’t be disappointed
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A year in to the pandemic and what became working from home I moved my system that consisted of a McIntosh MA352 int amp and a pair of Klipsch Forte IVs From my family room in to my home office.
Having heard the revel F208’s and liking them i purchased a new system for my family room that features the F228be’s powered by a McIntosh MA8900 and this system is wonderful in a completely new way. I can only describe the sound is that it doesn’t excel at the extremes of highs and low frequencies but fills the middle frequencies in a way I have never noticed. So the balance of real instruments and vocals sounds like the “instrument” being played. Like it get are in my room.
I listen to music across a lot of genres w an emphasis on Jazz, electronic, indie and the F228’s are just great to sit in front of for more time than I have in a long time.
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You're ready to drop an amount that certainly warrants getting the room prepared to exploit whatever you decide on.
It will be a waste if you can't get them out into the room 4-6ft from the front wall along with diffusion/damping. Fancy speaker cables and footers will NOT compensate for not being unable to meet this requirement.
Your amp and whatever linestage in use will be fine until can plug in a "proper" 2 channel amp and linestage.
Demo highly recommended.
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With a $7-8K budget you could probably buy the Revel F226's and a Coda CSiB integrated amp (and keep your SVS sub).
With a $10K budget you could probably buy the Revel F226 BE's and a Coda CSiB integrated amp (and keep your SVS sub).
The biggest issue with either scenario is how rarely the CSiB hits the used market; and, they sell very quickly when they do.
Bottom line, upgrading from the Rotel amp is good advice; so, expanding your speaker and/or amp choices might be necessary. Have fun and good luck!
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My philosophy on a system is different than most peoples. You can make cheaper speakers sound amazing with better electronics, but the opposite is not true! Also, speakers are harder to sell than other stereo components mainly because many are large/heavy and expensive to ship. The exception to this rule for me is if I can find an end game speaker that I will have for 10+ years!
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Used Focal Kanta 2 would be a nice one to audition. Good luck !
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I’d actually suggest selling the Rotel and the sub a just starting from scratch. Buying a better amp and two smaller sealed subs, even if that means spending a little less on speakers, will yield you much better and more balanced overall sound. FWIW.
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@mofojo In room they have a giant bass which must be controlled not to hide the dynamics. Well set up fantastic sounding. On everything. Keep on rocking :)
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Well I can help.
I own the Revel 228be (which I am selling but think they are amazing, sad but true more on this in a minute). I have owned B&W 703s (kind of like the CM10) and I own a Rotel class D amp and also have a McIntosh Mc462.
the short answer is the Revel is a great speaker. They do nothing wrong and almost everything right. Their major lack is deep bass, they have none. They roll off quickly after 50hz. I highpassed mine with subs at 60hz and as a total system it is really great. The best thing about the Revels is everything sounds good. Old crappy grunge, crappy metal, perfect audiophile tracks, everything. They are soft on the highs (but detailed), never bright or harsh. But without subs they suck imo and have no life. With subs wow, really great speaker. As you can see bass matters a lot to me. Because of the bass roll off you can put them within 3’ of the front wall and they are fine. Moving them out into the room is marginal improvement imo. I have tried many locations and they almost seem immune to location?!?
now I have never run my Rotel on the Revels. But know them both well. The Rotel is a little lean and mean and the silky sound of the Revel should handle this better than the B&Ws. The revel is very easy to drive BUT it is only 4 ohm. So not a lot of power needed but you need stable current.
As of value? They are better value than say B&W and Focal but at $11,000 I am not sure. There are good $5k speaker, there are bad $20k speakers. At used prices it is a 100% safe buy. I domed the B&W 802D4 without subs on Mac gear and came home and listened to my Revels with subs on Mac gear and though my system was objectively better (flatter more accurate) and subjectively more enjoyable due to being far less bright and peaky. The revels are so smooth even at 100db they are not harsh.
I bought mine as demos and was 100% content with them for two years, I still am actually. I am selling because I bought a pair of JBL 4367s and something has to go. The JBLs have a similar frequency response to the revels but bring more resolution. They also just have a lot more dynamics. I honestly feel that the JBL 4367 is end game type of quality (I should start a new thread about them). I am really surprised and impressed. While the revel is great and compares more to Focal Sopra, and Sonus Faber olympica in sound signature and quality.
If you are going to high pass your subs you could get away with the 226be as they sound about the same as the 228be. The 228be will just have lower distortion at high volume. Use their prices are pretty close though, New less so.
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Do you have the space for open baffle speakers? The Qualio IQ speakers from Poland appear to be an amazing value for $5500.
If you want something more mainstream, check out Perlisten. They are using state of the art design and materials. IMHO the Revels are getting a bit long in the tooth (the original Performa series is a decade old) .
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