Recommendation for a replacement speaker cable

I’ve been set to go AE but I have to confess that the description of the Raven cables has me very curious.

anyone still following

I stuck with the small diameter solid core concept, ended up with CAT8 22 awg x 8 = 13 awg

pasted from the 16 ohm thread:

I ordered everything for new DIY Speaker Cables

COST: $136.44 incl tax & delivery
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CONNECTORS (spades and adapters at speaker’s back panel)

spades, pure copper 2 set screws 8 pcs

https://www.wish.com/product/5f20285d021ca40450e0db12?from_ad=goog_shopping&_display_country_code=US&_force_currency_code=USD&pid=googleadwords_int&c=%7BcampaignId%7D&ad_cid=5f20285d021ca40450e0db12&ad_cc=US&ad_lang=EN&ad_curr=USD&ad_price=25.99&campaign_id=7203534630&gclid=CjwKCAiAirb_BRBNEiwALHlnDzHJI5sHBGgV6SU4SPObQJRDpIRlNlS-YE4jEMoNNitRfQDti9QnlhoCrSoQAvD_BwE&share=web

5 way binding post, pure copper fits 3/4" thick panel

https://www.wish.com/transaction/5fedeb5a8db692f0c1f84c07/product/5f4a22dd64ef860043939722/5f4a22dd64ef860043939723

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CABLE:

I ended up ordering a cat8 s/ftp (shielded, foiled twisted pairs)

When you twist them you lose length, I need 12 ft straight x 2 = 24’ x 2 spkrs = 48lf straight, a roll of 50ft would be short.

Speaker cables l/r should always be the same length (time of travel aligned, hah!).

I chose this cable, ordered 10 m (33ft) red; 10m (33ft) black, each leg 16lf to make 12 ft: red/black twisted.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174307181712

22 awg, 8 solid (not stranded) OFC copper S/FTP construction = 13 awg

This chart shows relative gauges, physical sizes, and resistance.

https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/wire/wire-gauge-chart.html

two basic choices cat gauges: largest 22 awg; smallest 26 awg

22 awg x 8 = 13 awg (+152% area above 26

26 awg x 8 = 17 awg (+152% resistance above 22

22 awg solid = less flexible is not an issue for me.


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CONDUCTIVITY CHART

https://www.bluesea.com/resources/108/Electrical_Conductivity_of_Materials

silver is only a little more conductive than copper

gold and aluminum are only a little less conductive than copper

brass is a lot less conductive than copper

COPPER TYPES (hard to verify true facts)

often text says solid but diagram shows stranded; text says 23 awg, chart shows 26 awg, and seller’s answers are often not clear.

https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/metals-metal-products/types-of-copper-wire/

’Pure Copper’, (99.9% pure) often in text, with or without OFC

is not in the above article, it is in this article,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen-free_copper

C11000 - also known as Electrolytic-Tough-Pitch (ETP). This is the most common copper. It is universal for electrical applications. ETP has a minimum conductivity rating of 100% IACS and is required to be 99.9% pure. It has 0.02% to 0.04% oxygen content (typical).

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L PADS

will be disconnected, new + wire direct from crossover for both horns
(one as a test first)

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WOOFERS, remove, check cones

Picking these suckers up onto a low bench for the work is a job for two masked men. Recent MRI: I now have 4 herniated discs, one tear, pinched nerve.

The PTFE tubing can be found at McMaster-Carr for a good price. 

https://www.mcmaster.com/ptfe-tubing/high-temperature-tube-sleeving/

Thanks for the pointer to get the silver wire. 

- Jay

Hello,
Thats a good idea. Maybe mix in a copper wire. Cool idea with mixed ga. Can you post where you get the supplies?

@ozzy - where did you buy the solid silver wire and the carbon sleeved jacket? 

I do have a great question?
if it is better to use shorter speaker cable say two meters in an unbraided wire. Isn’t it worse to buy a braided wire due to more wire length? Disregard the point of what the braid does to cut down noise. 

Hello,
I actually biwire. I use Analysis 12 ga wire for the bass and the Theater 4 which is four 16 ga wires to the tweeters. For some reason the smaller ga wire on the tweeters sounds better. I know it equates to 11ga wire. I used to have AP solo crystal oval 8 that was biwired. Sounded really, really good. I needed money and sold it. I have Morrow 3 interconnects and they are so clean. I might try that due to the really nice detail. Some times you get 45%-55% off at different times of the year. Individual strands that make up a heavy ga wire. Try before you buy. If I can hear The artist breathing or taping there foot what more do I need. 

Early Goertz cables could run some lesser amps into oscillation and started coming with a Zobel Network. Not any longer though. Nordost makes excellent and Uber expensive speaker cables and most are ribbons. Mapleshade doesn’t make ribbon cables to my knowledge but looking at their speaker cables doesn’t give me much confidence.

I had very expensive (to me) speaker cables and the Canare 4S11 I use now sounds better then the expensive ones I was using. You really do need to run them in though and Canare even says the cables sound their best after being run in. I burned mine in for 17 days straight for 24 hours a day. I used the Isotek system enhancer and burn in CD when I wasn’t listening to the system. Once the cables were burned in I put the treble back to flat on my preamp and it sounds fantastic. Member “Johnto” heard them on my system and bought a set for himself.

Question: Is there any merit to what @drbarney1  said about ribbon cables (like Alpha Core, Mapleshade, and some others) NOT improving the sound?

Kimber Kable 8TC.

Be suspicious of any cable manufacturer who sells any remedy for skin effect attenuating treble. 10 Feet of solid 8 gauge cable changes resistance on the order of hundredths of an Ohm from DC to 20 kHz. In series with a 4 Ohm speaker, skin effect makes 20 kHz 1/00 of a decibel. For stranded cable this effect is even less. Ribbon cables or litz construction do not improve the sound. You may be susceptible to placebo effect costing you thousands of dollars.

@mitchellman1 -- How would you describe their presence to the sound as compared to other cables you've tried?

I am very pleased with my Transparent Audio MusicWave speaker cables.

@mitch2 I'm hoping the Pro 9's err on the warm side of neutral and a little rolled off on the highs.

@pdreher Let us know what you think about the Harmonic Tech Pro 9's.  I suspect you will like them better than the Duelund cables but would be interested to hear how it works out.  I have both here.  I actually like older NOS Western Electric 10 awg speaker cables better than similar cables made from the Duelund wire.  I mostly continue to go back to the HT cables.

@simao I have a pair of Duelund 12 gage you can borrow to see if you like them.  I have a pair of Harmonic Tech Pro 9's due to arrive next Thursday... so anytime after they arrive is fine.  Let me know.

BTW, they are not for sale.  I use them in both of my systems and find them to be a tremendous value.

Ozzy, as the only guy I’ve heard that didn’t like Fidelium, you’ve got me intrigued to really give Cerious a go.

Kimber 8TC is an undisputed "great cable, excellent value" proposition.

I enjoyed Canare 4S11 in my system for years. Then I decided to pull out my old Goertz Alpha Core MI-2 Veracity speaker cables. As a long term Canare user I can tell you the Alpha Core improved the sonics across the board. A search here on Alpha Core will attest to their performance. They cost in the $150-$300 range new, now sold by the Cable Company.

Alpha Core Goertz | Speaker Cables, Adapters | The Cable Company

The only thing to be aware of is that they are such low inductance that they have been known to, in rare cases, cause some amps to oscillate, and back in the day were sold with a simple Zobel network to prevent it.

"" Solution: small diameter solid core strands, individually insulated, twisted, within exterior jacket "  I know a couple of electrical engineers that tried this and seemed pleased with results. Problem is with real life practical solutions there is no fancy set of $$$ name tags you can spout to prove your golden ear critical listening creds with. You were seeking an answer and these guys are seeking peer reviews and accolades.

  It's a funny world. I have people stop in to listen to what I am doing lately pretty often and there are some who look at my 12g zip cord and tell me fancy cables would work better. OK I say, bring your fancy cables here and lets have a listen. They come back but somehow the cables never come with them.

AQ Type 8 has served me well for years...very high quality copper solid core and relatively inexpensive.

+1 on the Kimber Kable 12 TC.  I also have the biwire version.  Love the sound, and seems very resistant to noise.   I have them mixed up with all my power and interconnect cables, but never seem to pick up any interference.

My personal experience is that DH Labs punches way above its price point. It would not be the weak link in a lot of high end systems. imho

J have to agree with Schubert.  I’m anAnalysis Plus fan.  The oval9’s are great for the $ as are used Solo Crystal Oval 8’s.  I use the oval 8’s and they are fantastic.

And Paul was an awesome guy.  Only talked with him a few times but he was an outstanding guy.  Some say death is just when God can’t stand to be without you a second longer... not hard to believe in Pauls case.  

I'm very fond of Grover Huffman Cables.  They seem to just get it right without limiting dynamics.

Interesting you mention you had used Clear Day I am looking for a pair right now.

Yes, it was Paul simao, He would send your wire before you sent the money .A strong Christian as well .

Duelund Speaker Cable12awg, Tin-Plated Stranded Copper Cotton Oil (DCA12GA), Hook-up Wire
 This is the cable that I used to replace my Silent Source speaker cables which I had been using for a couple of years. I heard about this cable out of Norway and decided to try it. I ran four six foot lengths between my Krell Mono Blocks and my Focal Aria 948’s. These are bare wire, no connectors getting in the way. All they do is give you what is on the record, if there is bass, you hear it. Incredibly satisfied and in my humble opinion the biggest bang for your buck out there. Cost, currently $15.95 a meter, just google and go for it.

@simao

i think i will change my username to slimebucket... 🤣

on a slightly more serious note, fyi...

i use mapleshades helix when running my harbeths and spendors, which benefit from a little more forwardness/drive and zing on leading transients

conversely, i use the 4s11 or tuneful/belden for my proacs and spatials (esp. w solid state amps) where the job is maintain the incredible soundstage while taming the treble a touch and/or add a lil more body/weight to music (bear in mind my spatials are the m3 sapphires, where clayton dialed up the 'transparency' with the new wide dispersion broad range tweeter)

Have you looked at Duelund wire? 

Meatwad was already taken. 

For some reason, taking the advice of someone who's named dorkwad is really troublesome. However, I will try to look past the name.

Under $600, you should at least try Speltz Anticables in your system.  They were the cable that beat all others tried in my system until I hit on a couple that were new like Cerious Graphene Extreme $640 that you can get well under $400 used and Amadi Maddie Signature at $625 new or under $400 used.  

Bob

At under $100, the Speltz Anticables are WAY beyond the others.  I had a hard time beating their sound until I spent $700 on a couple speaker cables.  Even then, parts of the sound were no better with the $700 cables.  Beyond that, you'd have to go to speaker cables above $1000 to get a serious jump and they are still very system dependent on which is better sounding.  

Kimber Kable 12 TC, have around 30 hrs in biwire configuration with my Monitor Audio PL300 ii and Krell K300i, so far very detailed and lots of depth, very nice speaker cable.  

I do remember talking to one of the lead guys at Maple shade back in 2003 or so when I installed the double helix cables into my then- ARC VS 110 and Maggie 3.6R system. Those cables had shrunk the Maggies expansive soundstage but had also deepened it. When I explained that to the gentleman, he said, "So what? Now you can hear further into the music."


He was right. I remember this because it's one of the few times i recall speaker cables making a palpable difference in sound. The other times were with Lee's Satori's and Paul's Clear Days. 

I'm not a mettalurgist, but I appreciate those who work with the elements to help my sonic cone bliss ever closer. 

Acoustic Zen Hologram II  is a great choice.

I run satori

@schubert are you talking Paul Ladauti? He was indeed a good guy. Great to talk with about the hobby. 

Best thing out there for that money ( and a lot more) is the Analysis PlusOval 9 , perfect for your amp .



With your outfit I would not buy anything else posted on here.I use Clear Days on a single driver 96 db Omega and it is very good in clarity but Oval9 is better in bass and slighty more neutral .
Beside the person who made then has passed . He was a great guy and is much missed. May He RIP .

Another vote for Morrow. Lots of options and they are well built. 

@simao Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the Maple Shade/Canare comparison. I am using Kimber 8tc, also have Canare 4S11, and Audioquest Rocket 33s.  Recently purchased Tannoy Sterling speakers. Once I get really familiar with them using the 8TCS I am going to replace the 8TCs with the Canares see what I think. 

Try 

KAB Electro Acoustics

Preserving The Sounds Of A Lifetime

www.kabusa.com

He is not boutique but a true audio lovers fabricator and reseller.

I purchased some of his interconnects and amazing. Ask for his suggestion on speaker wire.

Bluejeans Canare 4S11. Way under $600 for 2x8'.

Owned Clear Days Double Shotgun w/CD Jumpers, Canare, Kimber 4TC and 8TC and of those the Clear Days are more resolving, darker background - lower noise floor. Later ended with WyWires Silver Series. Difference between WyWires and the Clear Days is pretty big. The WyWIres are more open with a wider and deeper stage, more organic where comparing the Clear Days have a closed in stage although not bad but not as open as the WyWires. The WyWires don’t draw attention to themselves - speakers disappear where comparing back to the Clear Days, they do not disappear. The Clear Days are great cables so if you can find a pair they are hard to be beat. The Canare is great for the money, does nothing wrong but not the most revealing but musical and no fatigue so what’s not to like? If your system is a little too forward or hot, the Canare will help to tame things a bit. The Kimber TC series is fine but agree there’s a bit of grain or hardness compared to the others mentioned. From Kimber TC I went to Clear Days and the improvement was drastic. Never tried the cotton rope inside the Kimber TC to open or spread the braid but I have no doubt it could change the sound for the better. I have some 8TC laying about I should try.

I have tried the following cables in my system ...

Acoustic Zen Satori
Clear Day Double Shotgun
Audio Envy SP9

In my system, Audio Envy sounds the best. Very balanced, transparent, adds a nice weight to instruments. I found AZ Satori just a tad bit forward for my taste. It’s better than Clear Day though. I sold AZs at the same price (bought them used) I paid for them.