Ready to move onto next stage of streaming

The NAD M50.2 sounds great and is super well made but support from NAD is virtually non-existent and the manual and instructions are all but useless.  
 

if someone wants it, I’ll be selling mine.  Really soured on NAD’s support but if someone is smarter than I am (most people), it would be a great addition.  Certainly, anyone using Bluesound would do well to upgrade.   

I am guilty of reading parts of this thread a few times but never getting to the end.

The easiest way to get better sound quality with your existing system is to insert an EtherREGEN. I have an Aurender N10 and the ER took my system to a significantly new level. Google "UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions" and read all the very positive results. I've been so happy I took the plunge. Next will be experimenting with network cables and I'm probably also going to take the plunge on a linear power supply too. The ER is just $640 plus shipping. Couldn't give it a higher recommendation.

Hey Uberwaltz
We're sort of in the same boat. My 2170 should be here by the end of the week and it's coming with a MicroRendu to play with, which I have no experience with at all. My only streaming so far has been with my Node2i, which gets used almost daily. I'm also looking to upgrade the Node, but I'm the only one who uses it. So the only concern is cost VS performance. But from what I've been gathering over the last month, is that nothing comes close to the UI of the BS Node. Sad really IMO.
Anyway, I haven't found a legit review of the "Fidelity Audio" BS upgrades. This one I'll link below has a pretty major flaw with the non modded Node being fed over WIFI. But still pretty interesting none the less.
https://www.hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/136359-bluesound-node-2-vs-pimped-node-2i-with-linear-psu/

I am thinking about upgrading the Node and keeping it. My Supra Cat8+ cable just showed up today. These seem to have some pretty good reviews.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supra-CAT-8-ETHERNET-cable-10-meter-Made-In-Sweden-THE-BEST-FOR-NETWORK-AUDIO/153893009377?hash=item23d4bcf7e1:g:7OwAAOSwmmxW1lMz

The lumin app is far behind BluOS.. Usability means alot to me and BluOS is much better...

Reasons:
Lumin app doesn't give top tracks by artist (huge no no to me)
Lumin app does not allow you to add a song to your existing Tidal playlist.

There are a couple more, but these are two big issues with me.

I just went from my PC with ESI Soundcard (for hi res/ripped redbook) and squeezebox (for tidal) to an Aurender N10 and the sound improvement is amazing.  It now beats my cd player (Esoteric K03).  The conductor interface is wonderful as well.  Music on the hard drive and on Tidal are totally seamless.

Easy as pie to simply get one of the NAD integrated amps with either BluOS built in or that have the ability to accept the BluOS expansion card. Way more affordable than Lumin, Aurender, etc, and allows you to play vinyl, stream Tidal, and use your Vault 2.

I do not believe the OP ever stated there was "a problem"
The question was , is there anything better on the market that can achieve the same level of simplicity but with possibly higher sq.
Pretty simple I thought.
If we all just stopped dead with what we have and never looked around the corner to see what the next big thing might be then HEA would truly be absolutely dead as nobody would ever upgrade again!

I I am not sure what the OP problem is here.  He sounds happy with Tidal and his family apparently is with the Vault 2..  At this point I would be working on other issues, such as worrying if Meaghan Markle’s shoes are going to match her handbag at future Buckingham Palace receptions.

Allo DigiOne with dietpi as streamer only or Allo Boss Dac 1.2 as a streamer/Dac combo, for guys with tight budget. Sounds much better then Bluesound. 
PS Audio Direct Stream Dac with Network bridge ll, Roon, Tidal.

@uberwaltz,

I find myself in a similar spot. I, too and using a Lyngdorf 2170, but with a BlueSound Node 2. Also using a digital coax cable between the two. It sounds good, but am wondering what it takes to get to the next level (maybe a lot of $$$)? I am new to the audiophile world and the Agon threads (low experience). With that said I have already read plenty of battles on cabling. I'm not trying to be controversial or looking to start a fight, but have read that the Bluesound equipment responds well to power cords and digital cables. I currently use a Cerious Tech digital IC (sounded better to my ears than my previous BJC) and a Pangea C7 PC. Also, kind of sounded a bit gimmicky, but have read some positive user reviews about the iFi SPDIF iPurifier and am contemplating giving it a test. At $150 and the ability to return if it does nothing are appealing to me. Good luck!

The NAD M50.2 does look like a very nice piece of kit although full msrp of $4k is a bit steep. Seen refurb ones closer to $2500 which is a lot better.

uberwaltz,

Thanks for the response.  While I'm looking forward to making incremental improvements towards my version of a "perfect" sound, at my age, I've learned that somethings just have to be good enough.  

I like what I have so far.  The only other piece I may buy is the NAD 50.2 so I can put my Mac CD changer back with its brothers & sisters in my man cave :-)

I can concur that not all MQA&FLAC files seem to be created equal as far as Tidal is concerned.
I am not sure anything inherently wrong in your system, I experience the same at times although does not seem to be rampant in my area of predominantly rock and modern rock music.

You will likely notice a decent drop in the noise floor with the addition of your Furman and a good pc never hurts!

Nothing too much wrong with Audioquest stuff, even the budget stuff is fair.

Welcome to the world of ever decreasing circles on tweaks!

I'm new to digital and am building my first dedicated listening room.  I purchased a NAD M12 w/ BluOS module and M22 v2 combo.  Connected to the M12 is a Mac CD player, Techniques SL-1600 MK turntable, and Squeezebox Duet,  I stream Tidal using BluOS from a laptop and sometimes via the Duet.  My CD collection is ripped to a Synology NAS, I use Logitech Media Server to access my digital library via the Duet.

With Tidal, I've noticed that not all MQA & FLAC music sounds that great with my setup.  Most jazz which is what I care the most about, sounds very good to awesome.  I'm an oldschool R&B guy, and most 60's - 80's music sounds pretty good, but not as good as more recent jazz music.  

I've noticed that some transitions regardless of genre, are rather "explosive" or bright, by that I mean get too loud at their peak or the highs just appear to be too high.  I can play the same music on my analog Mac system and different speakers and don't get that same effect.

I don't know if its the NAD DAC not being able to handle that well, or just digital in general.  My NAD gear is only a couple of weeks old, so I'm hoping things will improve over time.  I also have to add acoustic treatment, which I know will help.  I've budgeted ~ $1500 for that.

I'm retired, and trying to stay within my budget.  I just ordered a Furman Elite 15PFI power conditioner and I will order a better power cable.  I use AudioQuest mid-priced interconnects.

Any advice would be appreciated.  

Has anyone tried the Cocktail/Novatron products?  I have the Cocktail X50D and am pleased with the sound. I also have an Aries Femto clock unit to compare it to. Any comments would be appreciated. 

+1 on BlueSound Node 2 to Lumin for MQA (and other streaming).  I got a used T-1 at a very reasonable price.

Wise choice.

The more I have investigated, the more I have come to the conclusion that my first choice ,the Vault was as good as I need for my situation.
The Bluos app on both droid and iPad are near flawless and just about idiot proof. In fact imho the Tidal interface via Bluos is quite superior to the actual Tidal app interface.
In my system I am streaming 24/96 MQA into the 2170 and it sounds pretty darn good to my ears.
Right now listening to Tidal via the Vault on my second system where it is connected by a 50 ft toslink cable from its digital out feature.
Sometimes you just have to know when you already have a good thing and its time to just enjoy the music!

X2 on the Lumin D2

I have been down the paths of using a computer with an external dac and then replacing the computer with a dedicated streamer (auralic Aries) with a separate dac. Why do you want to use 2 boxes linked with an inferior usb cable when you can use an internal network card in a highly rated dac? I use the bridge ii card in my ps audio ds dac with roon and sounds so much better than any external streaming box that I have auditioned and the dac is highly rated too. Check out the review of the dcs network card in stereophile  couple months back. IMO, this is the best way to go in removing all the unnecessary pieces to get the best SQ of streaming music

I do not see me changing the 2170 anytime soon tbh so yes it maybe that right now the Vault is as good as I need.
I do not relish change just for the sake of change, if no realistic upside then why bother.
Imho of course....

Room Perfect is a game changer, plus the DAC in the 2170 is far superior to that in the H160.  IMHO.

If you're going to keep the 2170 for long term, maybe best to stay with the Bluesound.  But, If you're keen on upgrading your streamer, I would not purchase anything that is a DAC/streamer combo.  You don't need a 2nd DAC.

Darn it
I sold my h160 to help buy the 2170!
Still I think in my situation the room correction helps tremendously.

I had a very inexpensive Definitive Technologies Streamer and knew I needed to upgrade. I tried the all in one Lyngdorf and the sound quality was slightly less than the discrete components I had at the time. I tried a Border Patrol DAC with the Definitive streamer and didn’t hear an improvement. I came across Lumin and thats where things began to take the sound to a much higher level. I was still auditioning the BP DAC and tried it with the A1 LUMIN and found the DAC in the LUMIN carried a bit more weight. I’m very happy with the A1 feeding my SET 300b amp!

My guess is that the Mytek would produce  similar results regarding MQA as the Aries Mini.  Although the Mytek is a much better DAC, but you would need to pair the Mytek with a different amp unfortunately.

Uberwaltz,

The 2170 will read the correct incoming sample rate, so if you click "info" on a 24/192 (MQA) is will indeed say 24/192, but the 2170 will then resample the MQA to PWM (24/96) before the final output, as it does with any incoming signal.  So you're getting resampled MQA.

My Aries Mini, which had a BETA firmware installed, was MQA capable with it's internal DAC and would do a full MQA unfolding.  I'd send MQA to the Mini, and then singled ended out into the Lyngdorf's unbalanced input.  I did not like the sound at all.  I'd send the same MQA file through the Mini's digital out into the Lyngdorf and the sound was a bit better, although there was no MQA unfolding, since I was using the Lyngdorf's DAC.  So I ended up just playing the FLAC files (Mini digital out to 2170), and to me that sounded better than MQA

Before the Lyngdorf, I had a Hegel H160 and did the same test.  This time, using the Mini's DAC and playing MQA, going into the Hegel's unbalanced analog input, the sound was always superb.  I always preferred the MQA version, over the normal FLAC.

Hope that makes sense.  ramble ramble

Robert
Are you saying that even if the Mytek unfolds to full 24/192 and I send to the 2170 via xlr analog for instance the 2170 will resample back to 24/96?

I think as long as you’re using the Lyngdorf, you need not worry about MQA. It’s not possible to play full MQA with the 2170 in the chain anyways, as it will always convert/resample all sources feeding it.

That was the main reason I reluctantly parted ways with the Brooklyn DAC+. There was no need for it and the 2170 in the same system.

After owning a Bluesound Node 2 for a year I moved it to another system in another part of the house.  I replaced it with a Lumin T-1 Streamer.  The T-1 does sound better but not by a huge margin.  This is not a knock against the Lumin, rather a testament to how good the Bluesound unit is.  I am glad I am able to use it in my second system.  The law of diminishing returns is invoked rather severely when it comes to upgrading from the Node.  Yes there are better, but at what cost?

Have some thinking ahead.
Aurilac, Mytek, Lumin.
All look like excellent products.
Thank you for suggestions so far.

I had the chance to listen to the Lumin D1 and the Bluesound Node 2 streaming Tidal side-by-side a few months ago. For MQA, the Lumin was the better of the two but not by anywhere near as much as it bested the Node 2 on non-MQA files. The Lumin when upsampling CD quality files to DSD was a revelation to a former non-believer in upsampling. I heard the D1 without the SBooster power supply upgrade. I was told by a fairly reliable source that an upgraded power supply was essentially the only change in the Lumin D2 from the D1 so a comparison of the D1 with SBooster vs. the D2 might be relevant.

uberwaltz,

No, the Ayre Codex is not MQA compatible. I believe the Node 2 and Vault have the same Dac. What I do know is the Codex even with standard redbook CD still sounds superior to the Node's or the Vault's on board MQA Dac. Even when they are decoding MQA.

I am very happy with the Lumin D-1: which allows you to upgrade to a much better power supply which makes a Huge difference .
Using the New Mojo audio Illuminati-2 which is one of the best 
Without question. $1,000 FOR A POWER SUPPLY? Absolutely 
It takes this $2k player using Wolfson best dacs 1 per channel
Which hos very good reviews and with upgraded power supply it can compete with dacs 3x that Without any problem and Sounds rich  and detailed, 
Also, Lumin has a Great App and auto firmwhere upgrades. 

You can give the Lumin D2 a look... I noticed a nice upgrade going from my node 2 to my Lumin D1 with upgraded power supply. I’ve since moved up the Lumin line but I believe you’d be very happy with a D2

@gdnrbob. 
I am currently using the DAC in my Lyngdorf 2170 which is pretty superb although not MQA compliant.
I was more along the lines of looking at a superior streamer to my vault but is looking increasingly like I may be at a point where I will need to spend a LOT more money for a disproportionate increase in sq.

I use an Ayre Codex with my Bluesound Node.
It is a considerable upgrade from the internal Bluesound DAC and is very reasonably priced on the used market.
Another company I would recommend would be Schiit. A Gungnir or Yggy would be comparable to the Codex.
I haven't joined the MQA bandwagon, yet, as I feel it is more akin to Dolby (which I think is more a sonic degradation than improvement).
B

I can vouch for Mytek. I’ve used the Brooklyn DAC+ and it’s sound is spectacular. Especially with MQA.

Equally as good as the Lyngdorf, with maybe a slight edge for the better. But, once I bought the Lyngdorf, there was no need for a second DAC.

Always a compromise.

Robert
I use my android phone to control right now, however I do have an older iPad 3 lying around that could be pressed into service.
I will research the Aries.

Latik
I did look at the Mytek products, mighty fine seeming units.

@uberwaltz,

I get that, 2170 has a very high quality DAC so it should sound better.

“To get full MQA benefit right now I would likely need to insert another MQA capable DAC between the Vault and the 2170”

You can try Mytek Brooklyn, I heard it’s pretty good.

Uber,

What are you using to control the Vault?  Tablet, phone?

I'm using an Auralic Aries w/ Femto clock, and control it with my iPad via Roon.  Auralic has it's own app, Lightning DS which I only use for setup, which I believe you can only do via an iPad at the moment.

Anyways - the Aries has USB, Toslink, Coax, AES out (pick your poison) and is only a streaming transport - which of course is all you need, since you're using the Lyngdorf's fantastic DAC.

I believe Auralic and Bluesound are neck & neck with each other regarding internal circuitry processor blah blah, but the Aries does have the Femto clock, and no DAC (extra hoopla inside), plus a very nice linear power supply, which should be an upgrade to your Vault.

I haven't used any Bluesound products, but I had the Aries Mini (no Femto/Built in DAC) and the Aries I have now sounds noticeably better.

To get full MQA benefit right now I would likely need to insert another MQA capable DAC between the Vault and the 2170.
At least that would be my take on it?

@mr_m
Is the ayre codex MQA capable?

@lalitk 
Actually I have the Vault hooked up right now with both dig coax and single ended rca into the 2170.
Unfortunately the DAC in the Vault is of quite a lesser caliber imho and even MQA via analog is noticeably inferior to MQA via digital even though it only gets unfolded to 24/96.

Aside from potential differences in DACs (which can be handled outboard anyway) why would there be any difference in the sound quality of any streaming box vs any other?  They’re all getting the same digital stream from Tidal, they should all pass a bit-perfect reproduction of that along to whatever is next in the chain via digital out.  

@uberwaltz

If you’re already using an external DAC, I would sit tight. However, you’re missing out on full MQA decoding by using Digi Coax output.

You may not care about MQA but I am curious if you have compared the analog vs digital into 2170 DAC to see if MQA files sounds better?

My N10 / ARC DAC9 via AES/EBU easily trumps Vault2 / ARC LS28 via analog RCA (sorry, I know it’s not a fair comparison).

I have heard that Lyngdorf is of very high quality, but have never had any of their stuff in my system. Just wondering how an Ayre Codex would sound hooked up to your Bluesound Vault. Good used prices out there if you were interested in trying one.

I think you could be right Latik.
It does seem a lot of extra for possibly a small incremental increase in sq, although not that uncommon as you rise up the hifi chain.
Also looked over the NAD M50.2 which looks like it would basically do only the same as my present vault does right now.
I already stream from the Vault via digital coax and use the Lyngdorf2170 DAC which eliminates the lesser DAC in the Vault.
Ho hum, maybe I get to keep my money.... Lol

You could consider Aurender A10, but how much improvement you would yield by spending 4x is contingent upon your system and your ears. 

A10 is pretty amazing for all it does at $5K price point.

It could well be that there is not much better available at a reasonable price point over what I already have and with my self imposed limitations.
And if not so be it and I will carry in enjoying music via the Vault.

Be careful what you wish for.  You could try adding an external dac and see how that sounds.  However, I find the Vault reproduces piano very well which to me is an indication of digital quality.  You may need to spend a lot for a minor improvement.
You could also investigate the higher end NAD streamers which will also retain the BluOS system.