Raven celeste competitors/alternatives

I haven't heard the Celeste so can't comment on them. I have a Raven Blackhawk LE with Reference 3A MM de Capo i speakers on the matching stands in a small living room and couldn't be happier. I, too, listen to a very wide range of music, everything except full-scale orchestral works, and the de Capos work extremely well. I've owned several dozen  combinations of amp and speakers over 50 years of serious listening and this is the most satisfying. 

Thank you Sfar!  Do you use a sub or are you able to get sufficient bass from the De capo? Also, how long do you have to warm up the amp before listening?

I have a new Raven Nighthawk 3.1.My first experience with tubes. If you don't count my first car, a '61 Plymouth with a tube radio. My speakers are KEF R3's on stands. Mid sized room. I am very happy with the combo! And they look great!  

If you can’t get past the looks of the Celeste another potential option would be the LSA-20 that may be more palatable.  The other option would be to keep your speakers and try a hybrid integrated like Unison Research with a tube input and robust SS amp section.  Best of luck. 

Wish you could hear my Moabs with my Melody tube amp. You would know you are done! Either a Nighthawk or Blackhawk with either Moab or Double Impacts and you will be in heaven! I would go Moab if you have the room, and Blackhawk if you have the money.  

The Celeste are pretty good but they are more in the old-school audiophile realm of being "polite" and soft. Without going into too much detail this is due to the same problem they all face of trying to get a large driver to do the work. Eric by using a lot of tweeters to do the work of one 9" midrange has solved the problem of how to get electrostatic fast response without the hard edge problem everyone still has going the old school route. 

It is not even close, but people get triggered when told it is a $40k speaker for $4k. Actually not a good example anyway, as I am unaware of any speaker at any price that does what his MTM does.  

I go on a nightly basis from Dire Straits to Tchaikovsky and back to Roxy Music and Sinatra-Basie. Moabs do it all, and do it all exceptionally well. Easy to drive. You will find yourself enjoying rock concert levels more than you ever thought possible, while at the same time realize they still are wonderful at low to moderate level. You do not need to crank them up, not at all. But when you do- wow! 

And do not worry about power. Raven will be plenty. Plenty! Just a fabulous combo. Highly recommended!!

I don't have a sub with the Blackhawk and de Capos and have never felt the need for one but my listening space is fairly small. There is some information about their frequency response in the Stereophile review but my affection for them is based on listening to them compared to other speakers I've owned in the same general price range from Merlin, Devore, Nola, ProAc and others.
I don't find it necessary to let the Blackhawk warm up before I begin listening but perhaps I'm not as analytical a listener as some.
https://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1203reference3a/index.html

It is not even close, but people get triggered when told it is a $40k speaker for $4k.

Because it isn’t.
It is a $4k speaker for $4k.

You could try the BlackHawk with your Revel's and see how it works. Then there is a Don Sachs Integrated now with 35 wpc using 6L6 tubes. Don's preamp is always sold within 2 days of arriving on the used mkt. And his amp is great. I have one. The waiting list will be 6-8 weeks though, which is the down side. But I suspect his integrated gets great reviews also. Then there's also CJ & other integrateds. I'd love to hear the Blackhawk myself but understand your hesitancy

I agree with artemus_5 about trying a Raven Blackhawk or Nighthawk with your Revel's, especially since Raven offers an in-home trial. If you switched out both at once you'd always wonder whether it was the amp or the speakers making the difference. Call or write Raven with your questions, I've found Dave Thomson to be extremely approachable and helpful.

A friend of mine has the CeLest Blackhawk combo and it sounds simply wonderful.

I would consider it but if I put a system in one more room in this house I may be all alone, have 5 now.

Imaging is great you can sit for hours listening to it. Much like my Moon 340i and Sf Olympica III’s

Thanks everyone for all the replies so far! Millercarbon, no way I can fit speakers that large in my small room. I often think the revels overpower it, however, switching to monitors and not having enough bass would be equally bad imo.
Trying a Raven amp with the Revel is not a bad idea since I could return it in 45 days (I'd just hate to be that guy). Unless others are more convinced than I am (and voice it strongly here), I feel it's just a guess if a hybrid like Pathos, Vincent, Unison Research etc. would yield better sound with the Revels than just getting the nighthawk/Celeste combo. I really don't want to waste time and $$ doing a bunch of random guessing that can't be evaluated side by side. Hence my "toying with" the idea of the Raven matched combo. Oh well, what I have now isn't terrible, but I know it can be better... and once it is, I'll want to get a new dac Chord Qutest or denafrips ares etc. Ugh! I'm never satisfied but too broke to try it all. Sometimes I wish I'd just enjoy the music more rather than thinking about better sound, but I guess my sound still isn't where I want it. That's why I suspect my gear isn't as synergistic as it should be and I am inclined to try a more "manufacturer matched combo" rather than randomly attempting to create sonic euphoria a la carte and failing. Jeez this stuff is harder than you'd think. Simply buying good gear doesn't necessarily guarantee good sound. I mean it helps obviously, but it doesn't guarantee it..  cuz the room doesn't care... and the equipment doesn't know what you want from it. 😉

This is what all direct sellers hoping to cut out normal retailers hope for with their potential customers. There is no problem returning it and you are not "that guy" if you return it. Returns are built into their business model.

Brick and mortar dealers offer home trials and loaners as well. 

I would not use either type of seller for a home trial unless I was serious, but it sounds like you are serious so try it out.

labguy OP"Trying a Raven amp with the Revel is not a bad idea since I could return it in 45 days (I'd just hate to be that guy)."

I suspect if most people returned the Raven amp after the home trial Raven Audio would no longer be offering the trial.

I don't think they get many returns. That said, there used to be no restocking fee, only shipping both ways if you were unsatisfied. Now they have a 7% restocking fee which is likely to dissuade some tire kickers.

Oz

I heard the Raven Celest at the 2020 Florida Audio Show...not sure which Raven amp they were driven by....the show rooms are not great rooms...maybe 15x25....speakers set up on the long wall, seating position maybe 9’ back....they were not polite and soft....To me, they were outstanding, musical, compelling...I went back to the room three times I was so surprised.


I currently have Salk Veracity ST...and if I were looking to change, the Celest would definitely be on my short list.

Why these amplifier come with towel racks on them?

Because they are so heavy those handles are needed to be able to safely pick them up. If you own one you'll appreciate them.

It weigh 15 kg. I can curl two of these with one arm.

What a stud! 

Labguy,

I would suggest trying the amp with your current speakers.  I am not familiar with the Raven line of gear, nor am I familiar with your particular speakers.  But, I generally find that most people grossly overestimate the amount of power they really need and undervalue the importance of the amp being able to deliver good sound at normal listening levels (vs. when you want to crank it up).  

I am a big fan of the 6L6 output tube used in the Raven amp.  I  prefer that tube over other tetrode/pentode tubes that deliver more power.  

As for alternative speakers, the suggestion of the Tekton Double Impacts is pretty good, assuming the size and looks are not a deal breaker.  I have heard them in a small room and they can be made to work in a small space.  There is not much that competes at that price that are also reasonably efficient.  Another decent sounding alternative that is efficient and low-cost is the Rethm Bhaava.  Perhaps you could squeeze into the budget something like the Audio Note AN-J or AN-K speaker.  I am also a fan of the ProAc D2 stand-mounted speaker.  At a lower price point, the Warfedale Linton is a nice sounding speaker.