was it not shipped with insurance? if insured, there should be no cost to you...
Question Regarding New Item Damaged in Shipping
It's been a while since I've been active on this forum, and in audio. I will not name names, will not provide additional information, my goal is not to sling mud, merely to understand if the practices of the "maker" and the "dealer" I am about to describe are, as the dealer is telling me, common in audio sales.
Facts:
I spent low 5 digits on a pair of mono block amplifiers. Shipped, they are 2 boxes of identical size and weight, about 85 lbs each.
I did not use a credit card.
It appears that one of the boxes was damaged in shipping, however from the outside, it didn't / doesn't look like much of anything, however once the item is opened, you can see a little damage to the box, a little damage to the foam packing "clamshell", but not much.
A speaker terminal was contacted by something sufficient to bend the chassis, and it isn't thin. There's no marks of impact anywhere, it just looks as if pressure was applied to the terminal and the frame bent.
All of my contact has been with the dealer. The dealer obtained a RMA, and asked me to ship the damaged mono back to the maker, at my expense, who will rebuild on a new chassis and send back to me at their expense.
I am being told that, despite the fact that the item was new when shipped to me "this is the way its done" in audio. In other words, it is common practice among dealers and makers of high end audio to handle items damaged in shipping this way, and the buyer would bear the expense of getting the item to the maker for inspection and/or repair.
Is this accurate?
I appreciate any input you can provide.
25 responses Add your response
A new item which is damaged should be replaced by the seller working through the mfg. They should also provide return shipping because this was NOT your fault. You contracted for a new item at an agreed price. You should never have to pay more for anything which was damaged.. Since you did not use a credit card, you have lost some ability to force the issue. It can be forced but it will probably take a state agency or lawyer. Maybe start with consumer protection in the sellers state and yours too.You may be able to appeal to I just ran into this situation with a tube seller. |
insurance is irrelevant. That is something that the seller decides if he want's to minimize his risk. The seller is responsible for delivering an item to you that is not damaged. Until that happens, it is his responsibility in full. I would politely tell him that it is his responsibility. Otherwise, you would be willing to accept a full refund. Jerry |
@carlsbad +1! |
Read your sales contract especially the part of shipping. No, it is not the sellers responsibility to get it to you, not unless that was part of the contract. Now they may be negligent w.r.t. packaging, which I think you have a case for here, but unless your contract specifically includes shipping (of their choice), you may be on the hook once it leaves their dock. |
@deludedaudiophile really a sales contract regarding shipping? Over 35 years of having equipment shipped to me and me shipming to others I've NEVER had a separate contract just for shipping unless taking out extra insurance from fedex or ups which is usually a joke anyway. |
Dealer should take full responsibility. Absolutely no repair. A new unit should be supplied at absolutely no cost to you. You should divulge the companies involved. This is unacceptable.
When I have had an issue… he takes care of it… never any effort required on my part. He will deliver a replacement for me to use (of equal or greater value) while the issue is resolved. I am never left without a fully operational system or do I need to communicate with the manufacturer. |
I'm positive shipping has nothing to do with packing. A lot of people think otherwise. If there's no outside damage and no inside damage, that's not packing or shipping it's a mater of inspecting a product before it ships. You have the proof it was damaged, the seller can't prove it wasn't shipped that way. The seller is responsible for the packing. The shipper is responsible to deliver the package to the buyer's agreed location, in one piece without visible damage. The transaction is over when the buyer receives his property in the condition he agreed too, NOT the seller. "AS IS" does not mean you get to throw a 65lb amp in a cardboard box with peanuts and say "Good By". I learned that 10 years ago on EBay. I instruct people how to pack, my equipment. If they say anything that would lead me to believe they wouldn't pack the equipment correctly. I put them and Ebay on notice before they even ship the product. I recommend they take pics as they pack. With no pics it better be a perfect packing job and sent freight strapped to a pallet in a bubble. Cary pulled that with me. I got the whole 10.5K back. They actually sent the two boxes ground. My FedEx driver knew I would reject it.. |
@rsf507 , When you buy something, there are clear terms of service. When I buy on Amazon, Amazon takes total responsibility for delivery. It is right in their terms of service. When you buy on Ebay, the seller is ONLY responsible for what they have stated, no more, no less. We have no idea what the sales terms were the dealer (and buyer) agreed to. I have no seen the sales order. Have you? If shipping was included in the price, then that is pretty much always on the dealer. If shipping was extra, then the dealers responsibility may end with good packing, which as I noted, is not clear hear. It is all in the fine print, and the buyer (op) has not provided that detail. |
Regarding EBay, that is 100% incorrect. If an item is damaging during shipping it is ALWAYS on the seller to make good. Even with insurance. Regardless what the seller “says” or otherwise. EBay and PayPal have the means to enforce that if required. Regarding the OP, as previously mentioned the dealer should be on the hook for this one. It is possible there is a “damaged in shipping” clause of some sort on their “policies” page, but unlikely. Let’s be clear, it is simply the right thing to do for the dealer to make good. So many companies these days have garbage customer service. There is still a Golden Rule. It’s depressing to see it abused by so many… |
Customer service is not what it used to be and the dealer could certainly have done better from the sound of it. With that said, the place to start is a careful reading of the sales documents. After forty years in the law business I've seen many circumstances when the contract assigned responsibility in an unexpected manner. For an expensive piece of equipment I would expect the sales document to address shipping and related issues but without knowing what is in the documents it's guesswork. |
Speaking purely hypothetcailly, one of 3 things could have happened here. 1. it was boxed and shipped that way (by the manufacturer, in essence) 2 It was damaged in shipment, ini spite of there being no visible outer damage, and the shipment being signed-for/acceoted by the recipient 3,. it arrived in perfect condition, and was damaged post-shipment. Interestingly, no one took the dealer's or the manufacturer's 'side' on this one. I was not party to any part of this transaction or series of events, so I cannot really speak to the facts. Outside of the OP, none of you can either. As to the notion that 'this is how it is done...' I would ask what the terms of sale were, and whether and what sort of return policy was in place, and who paid for shippng in the first place.When you return something in general, you have to 'bring it back' to the store. They don;t come and get it, and you don;t get reimbursed for your gas or time for the return trip. Shipping was a service, and was provided. 2 85LB boxes are usually best sent via freight, strapped to a pallet, but that costs a lot more than the usual carrier's ground service. I am not takins sides here, and hope the OP gets his amp taken care of, but i think we need to know way more detail about this transaction to make more specific claims about who should pay for what. |
Did you ask the dealer if it was insured before they shipped it? Was it shipped direct from the manufacturer. Would it have made sense to check with the seller if he or the manufacturer insured this item against damage? Did you call the seller before you opened the box and sent them a picture of outside damage? Did you ask the seller if he shipped these with insurance protection? Why would you ever pay by check in the first place? Weren't you aware credit card purchases are protected by the credit card company? If you could cover the expense by writing a check, you could have paid for this purchase in full when your credit card statement came in the mail. I buy most everything by credit card for this reason. We simply pay off our credit car balance to incur zero interest using the purchase protection a credit card offers. Why anyone would pay by check these days is beyond my comprehension. |
Lots of good questions have been asked but no response from the OP! Hello @gthirteen |
A few additional facts:
The invoice contains a line item for shipping. The seller and I discussed alternatives for shipping. I made it clear that I was using the Seller or makers shipping service of choice and paying for it, because in the unlikely event that there was a problem, it needed to be someone else’s problem, versus my problem. The purchase was made over the phone, after emails and text messages. I appreciate all of the comments, input, etc., however please see my original post for the one question that I am trying to answer.
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I'm not sure if there's a "usual way things are done' anymore, given the new state of the world. It is a great question to ask, and I am not sure whether either party should have involced 'standard practice' in such a case. Wht was promised and agreed on is, to me, the more relevant consideration. That said, ih the old days, you wwne to the local tore, bought what you wanted, and if it was defective/damaged when you got it home, you drove back to the store, and they pulled another one off the shelf --maybe you opened it there to make sure it was not the entie batch--then went on your merry way. Things are very different now. Not sure how else to respond, without knowing way more of the specifics of the case. |
