At least in the aesthetic department-SF is beautiful to look at. They sound as good as they look, but that's simply a personal, subjective call. I have only heard "pre SF corporate" Amati. Assuming current Amati has retained the SF "sound." I have a soft spot for the SF Stradavarius https://www.nisel.sk/wp-content/uploads/SONUS-FABER-Stradivari-Homage-Red-Violin-one.jpgAny type of music should sound good thru your choice of speaker. I never agreed with the genre specific speaker or amp discussions. |
I have demo'd the K6 and the Amati Tradition. To me, the Proac was the 'clear' winner. The Tradition was smooth but dull by comparison. |
IMO it's a toss between the Proacs (as mentioned above) and the Kharma.
The Kharma look much nicer, but in my book the Proacs will rock better. They are also slightly more sensitive -- an important consideration as you only have 60W on tap.Good luck!
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….....thank you all so far as it is appreciated. My only concern with Proac at the expense of being insensitive, is that the chief engineer and designer Stuart Tyler just passed on and who knows what the future holds for Proac. |
Of your list, Proac or Kharma. With your musical taste, Proac. |
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Talk to Thomas R. Ratushny at New York Sound and Vision. He stocks three of those brands. |
Hello twoleftears…..thank you and much appreciated. Thomas is a special and honest individual and very knowledgeable in this hobby. However, I do not want a dealers perspective otherwise I would have called him. What I am looking for is ''us '' Audiogoners who have listened to those speakers that I have listed and to have them give me their thoughts as dealers will give you theirs. |
+another one for ProAcs
@garebear as a ProAc owner, I am obviously biased. All the speakers you mentioned are highly desirable ones. If you get a chance, try to audition them. Yes, Thomas is a genuine and honest dealer. And the sound that I envisioned matches the ProAcs that I have. And it was what Thomas had also recommended to me. You should try to demo the K6 sigs.
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...thank you milpai but as I had noted earlier my concern now is what is going to happen to ProAc as Stuart Tyler has passed ? I don't want spend that much money and have ProAc close it door's the way Thiel did after Jim passed on. |
valid concern. But it looks like his daughter and her husband are taking over. The future remains to be seen. Hoping the ProAcs thrive the way Spendors are doing after Spencer and Dorothy.
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Focal Sopra 3 is a Great speaker and is one speaker thst should
be included. |
Try to find a pair of older ProAc Studio Twos. I was very fond of mine |
Verity Audio, I have the Parsifal Anniversary and it's my endgame. Amadis are more efficient and would fill easily your room with their bigger woofers. If you take good care of positioning them well they may be your endagme too. Verity are great for extended listening sessions because they are fatigue free, they are also great at imaging and do the disappearing act perfectly. |
iF the list is that narrow, Verity…i have never heard them sound bad…and on more than a few occasions sing. i also have not heard latest Proac or SF offerings. i owned a small pair of SF i used for nearfield recording monitor work, lush, romantic…warm….but imaged super well.
have fun
since we appear to be voting for dealers, Johnny Rutan :-) |
Why those 4 speakers for your shortlist? |
……...thank you all again for your responses as I am the original OP : audioman58 - If wanted to know about Focal I would have included them on my list and if you had looked and read at my thread you would have not seen them listed - I have listened to them and do not like them and they look well ; ugly infection - thank you and just because those are the ones I like ! robbeyedwards - thank you and I owned a pair of those 25 years ago and agree that are great but as noted looking for floor standers and not stand mounts - but agree with you milpai - thank you and good point and much appreciated. I was looking into the Spendor Classic 200 but no dealer here in the US carries them ..... from what I '' heard '' they do not possess the same sound as the older Spendor's …...but I still researching them and they are now up to ohhhhh $27,000 USD ! tomic610 - thank you but my thread did not note that we were voting for any dealers - but agree on the Verity's …...but their dealer net work here in the US has considerably shrunk over the past 5 years which tells me something. practikl - thank you and congratulations on your purchase of the Parsifal Anniversary's …….they are magical. One question to you ; can they rock and roll - not head bang - but can they boogie to the bands and songwriters that I have noted ? Great speakers ….. |
@garebear I understand your concern about S Tyler’s sad passing, but the speaker design is already completed and PROAC, the company, seems here to stay. More importantly, and no disrespect to Proac design, the K6 are not rocket science and you should be able to service them easily if needed -- which is unlikely!
As to the Verity Audio* model mentioned above (which i like) I don’t think they will take you to Fillmore East to listen to the Allmans as well as the Proacs:) or the Kharma for that matter.
That said, however, IIRC the Verities you like are much more efficient than the rest, so will play louder with your set-up. And they never disappoint -- but, I would add, they never enthralled (me) either!
*(The Verity model above yours (Lohengrin?) *will*, however, transport you to the Royal Albert Hall to hear Sir John Barbirollli conduct at the Proms in the 60s, AND take you to Montreux to listen to the Stones, Allmans at Fillmore, etc. They are fantastic speakers!)
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So do you have a shortlist from your shortlist...?! |
...thank you gregm and appreciated but the next model is the Sarasto's and they have a ribbon tweeter which you have to be careful with those and the next model you noted the ; Lohengrins are beautiful and big and out of my price range. I would give up some loudness as you noted for musicality as that is my end pursuit. Please let me know what ; IIRC means and agreed that the Amadis speaker can be as well as all of Verity can be and for a lack of any better word ; reticent I their sound. The speaker has to be musical and have a little '' guts '' …..these 4 speakers noted can. I also do like some of the Marten's …..but I am confused enough as is. Ultimately, I am looking for that set next to the sound board that sounds like a 25 year single malt Scotch....very smooth but with a little bite ! |
OP, given my (small to medium) room I have no problem to rock the Parsifal. As other Verity speakers, they are magic with natural instruments, but can also do amplified and electronic as well.
I suggest that you call Julien Pelchat of Verity to advise you regarding your room and placement, he and Bruno are gentlemen. The positioning of the Verity is very important and so much rewarding when you nail it. |
@garebear IIRC: if I remember correctly
So you’re looking for a Lagavulin 25 years in a speaker... or similar!
Single malt wise, the Proac would be on the smooth side, but as they have lots of dynamics, they can bite. The Kharma are dryer and very elegant tasting, not as smooth and lush.The SF taste lush, plush, with the most elegant upper palate -- so much so they can become... unobtrusive
The Verities: it is the Lohengrin I was thinking of, I disctinctly remember three drivers in front. By the way, ribbon tweeters are nothing to worry about (the Proac has one too), at a mere 30W power (an easy load for modern drivers) you will be hitting around 105 dB which is very, very loud!
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Of the four mentioned i would go with the Proac but i would also consider a large classic british monitor like the large harbeth or spendor to fill that large of space. You need a speaker with a large woofer and a bigger cabinet face to project the sound in a room of that size. You may even want to listen to some very good vintage systems in that size room, what you hear may really surprise you.
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Hello speakermaster - thank you and I did research on Spendor's largest floor stander the ; Classic 200 but no dealer carries that speaker and it does not seem to be a speaker that is well coveted over here in the US. The spec's do indicate that it very well may be a veyt good speaker but is little to no information it. It really looked at that one for a long. Not a big Harbeth fan. |
Have you listened to the Spendor Classic 100? I imagine the 200 will have a very similar sonic signature, just with a bit more bass extension and power handling. The Classic 100 already goes lower than some of your listed options. |
Hello two leftears and I have listened to the older version the ; SP 100 R2 and loved them but what I am '' hearing '' that ever since Dorothy and Spencer Hughes left it is not the same company or sound. I don't know what to believe at this point but the classic 200's are north of $25,000. So there is a lot of competition at that price point and the reviews of the classic 200 have been marginal at best ; stating that they sounded very ; soft. |
If british sound, etc, you might consider ATC 100s or even 200s. More bite than big Spendors (I had those). Subjectively speaking, Jimi Hendrix on big Proacs or big ATCs will sound like Jimi Hendrix, on (say) a Harbeth it will sound like the LSO is out of tune... (I actually like the big Harbeths)
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ProAc. Can really rock, great bass extension great midrange and smooth highs without fatigue….and will play your favorite non- rick with vocals that are right there….
Have fun!! |
Verity then Kharma. Your choice of music has no bearing on which speaker will be best.
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Hello schubnel - thank for your vote on Proac and the K6 Signatures are I my cross hairs. Audition_Audio - thank you and I agree with you up to a point as I have owned Harbeth 40.1 and well as Sonus Faber Olympica III's and really did not do the genres of music that I had mentioned well. The both of them are beautifully made speakers from great companies but at times - just did not get the music right. That is my concern with the Verity......thank you both again. |
Proac…. But you’ve already been told this 6 or so times in this thread and keep pushing back so… |
…….thank you b_limo so much and it is appreciated and I will get them based solely on your recommendation and the information you provided here on why I should get Proac in your response. |
The Sonus Faber for sure.
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@garebear what speakers did you end up going with? Looks like ProAC was in the lead on this thread.
It happens to be on my list to listen to. The dealer has ProAC k6 Sig on demo, however, I may go with something lower in the line like the D48R or K3. My other options include the Spendor Classic 100, SF Olympica Nova 3, used Amati Tradition.
My preferences align with this thread very well, except that I wasn't crazy about the new beryllium Kharmas. Too forward for my taste. I preferred the older titanium tweeters.
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.......Hello Irave and interestingly enough, I went went with the new Verity Audio Arindals and very happy. The Verity's just hit everything on my check list. I hope this helps and enjoy.....
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Greetings - how are you enjoying the Verity Audio Arindal?
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…….beautiful speaker , musically engaging but looking to sell . I only have 420 hours on them and they break in at 600 hours . I am not personally happy that a well respected company like Verity had closed their doors and I just purchased Avery expensive speaker from them ….. so looking to move them .
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@garebear
I wonder if that is the right move. If you are happy with them, and take good care of them, they will likely give you many years of trouble free service; so why sell them and lose a lot of money and have to start the search for new speakers all over again? Of course, if money isn't a big consideration and you would enjoy the process of choosing a new set, then I guess it makes sense.
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……I will of course put an add up here on Audiogon as I do not want to be in violation of any rules or regulations
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I am not sure that selling them is the right move as there are demo units selling at about 40% off retail, and a used pair will go for even less. The Arindal is supposed to be a magnificent speaker. It was launched in 2022 and I doubt they made very many of them, so you are fortunate to own what is now a relatively rare speaker.
Verity Audio have a reputation of being very reliable, and the American distributor has said that he would be able to help support any problems such as replacing drivers etc.
I remember reading that one longstanding retailer had sold many pairs over 1 to 2 decades and had never had a service issue.
I have had my Verity Audio Parsifal Ovation speakers for 14 years and they have performed flawlessly. I am in the process of looking for Verity speakers higher up the line, and have no hesitation doing so even though VA have gone out of business.
Enjoy the Arindals!
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……I appreciate the input only if I never had the thought of upgrading my speakers . The used / second hand market on these now as well as say a few years from now , I will get the price of two used large book ends ! You know how this market is especially on this site . I am laughing now at the stupid offers I would receive …..I can hear them now ; “ I can take them off your hands now for say …..$1,000 and you pick up shipping and any Pay-Pal fees ….” I am sure that I am not far off . Looking at the Serbio Franco Ktema’s and the irony is that I did not previously chose them because Franco had sadly passed on and they are such a smaller company . I also was concerned over the future of Pro-Ac after Mr. Tyler passed . Boy was I wrong on all of those companies as those two still have their doors open.
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I have had the Verity Audio Arindal in my system since yesterday. They are spectacular - very musically engaging, detailed, and transparent with a livelier sound than the Verity Audio Parsifal Ovation and with a bigger more expansive soundstage. They are more sensitive than the Parsifals (93 vs. 89 dB) which could partly explain their livelier sound. They also have very few hours on them and need to break in.
Apparently only around 65-70 pairs were made sine the Arindal was launched in 2022, and so they are a unique speaker. They are the successor to the Amadis.
I am very pleased with this purchase and plan to enjoy them for many years to come. This is a speaker for music lovers, and Verity Audio has left an incredible legacy for music lovers.
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……hello Totonto416 and agree with you 110%. I am still angry that I looked at many brands and the ones that I noted that are still open for business. I visited Verity in June of last year and the distributor never knew anything about their future plans . The value of these Verity’s have tanked and will be difficult to sell. However, I am glad that you are enjoying them as they are good …..real good. I hope that I haven’t rained on your musical experience but it doesn’t sound like I have and I am glad. I guess that I am still upset over the money that I did spend on the Verity’s only to have them close 9 months later .
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@garebear
If you lose money on them that will be all on you. If you love them, keep them. The chances of catastrophic failure are miniscule. Even if something did go wrong, like a driver failure, it is probably replaceable. I'm still not sure of your reason for wanting to get rid of them. Could it be that you don't like the idea of owning a speaker by a defunct company just because they are defunct?
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People collect vintage cars, camera equipment, and audio gear from companies that are no longer in business - yet those items are prized and sought after.
Verity was a small company with 5 to 8 employees in addition to the owner and CEO. They made high quality speakers that were built to last and were aimed at music lovers. They were not a high volume producer but more of an artisanal workshop. Their two founders, - Julien and Bruno - are very knowledgeable and passionate about music reproduction. Anyone who has spent time with them will tell you that they are true gentlemen. They were very dedicated to making high quality speakers and left us with a tremendous legacy. That they closed is sad and a loss to the audio world, but it does not diminish the value of what they have achieved and created. Those of us who own and appreciate their speakers know that we have something special.
Musicians such as Keith Jarrett, Norah Jones and David Chesky have owned Verity speakers. Chesky Records has used Verity Parsifal's as their reference speakers for many years.
I will enjoy my Verity Audio Parsifal and Arindal speakers for many years to come. Let the music play!
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@toronto416
I didn't know that information about the company, thanks. I also agree with your comments about their value despite the company having closed.
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That they closed is sad and a loss to the audio world, but it does not diminish the value of what they have achieved and created.
+1 @toronto416
Speakers can generally go on for a couple of decade before needing to re-foaming or other issues, provided you take good care of them. I am not worried about my ProAcs, even if Mr. Tyler is not around. Just because the company is not around, does not mean the speakers will become lazy and stop making the good music that the owner has come to love.
But, we are not in OP's shoes. So good luck to OP in whatever he chooses to do.
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I somewhat agree with Toronto416. I've also heard that the speakers are relatively indestructible (blowing) as far as the drivers are concerned.
My concern would be if someone put a broomstick or something through a driver. Who will fix it? Are there parts available out there?
Nora Jones will just have her property manager deliver something else.
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……does Thiel ring a bell with anyone here ?
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Of course I sold Jim’s time and phase correct speakers and met him many times. Sad - RIP.
I think you are being way to hard on yourself… You rolled the bones and the universe threw you a curve ball… so far without any musical impact….
Grace n peace….
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