Primare/ Vincent Adio /NAD /Rogue/ AVA /Hegel...- need a simple and reliable integrated

Just saw the CA-1 too.  Although the rave reviews, not having pre-outs is an issue, not a large one though. Its getting rave reviews but there's alot out there. I was tempted but the Keces is really good. Even if the CA-1 is better and more powerful as it was stated to sound better than a Exposure amp and someone stated it had better tonality than a hegel, its still opinion and they all play in a similar league, perhaps small differences here and there but that's what some of us pick up.

as to the Keces E40, I bought it from readings a SOundnews review, and I was looking for a small form factor amp. It's built well, sounds great and is sufficient for my needs.  There are two RCA inputs open for a source as well as a mm input (which I do not use) and a usb basic input for desktop uo to CD quality.  It also has variable pre outs which works well enough for me. 

Power Holdings Audio in NJ has them and while Arthur may no longer be the distributor, he can order them. The 1st one I bought from him on sale Black Friday.  He does from time to time sell demo units for around 20% off or so.  These are setup for US/Canada voltage whether 110 or 115 or 120 not sure.  There are overseas distributors/sellers in Europe and the East.  Alot of written reviews.

Measured to put out 61/75 watts 2 channel at 1K Hz but another site measured 34/61 watts 8/4 ohms probably along the lines of 20hz to 20Khz but not specifically stated. Some sites sell it as 50 watts, a few 40 watts.  On my Dali Opticon 1s I usually listen at 10pm to 12:30pm position on the dial. 

Take your time unless you want to jump on the CA-1.  can't go wrong there as to SQ per what others state.  A Hegel can be gotten used for reasonable.  Galion is raising interests but they are new.  There's a bunch of others as well but I can't comment on much more as I don't have any experience with those.  Alot with small speakers.

Hope it helps.  That CA-1 does look sweet though.  Ask if transferable warranty if you do. Still a nice form factor...but no preouts.  I think SVS sells some kind of kit regarding these kind of amps to bettter connect with a sub.

@drmusic I have zero reasons not to buy this. Other than I am waiting if my offer was accepted for a Sim I-5.

@agwca I am sold on Sim or Rogue or Ava. I just don't see how Hegel or Primare could have any advantages, they might be just as good but not better. If I streamed, it would be a different story. 

Pre-out, Remote, SS or hyrbid, I could even see the Billie, but that's too expensive. I am pleased to say, I'd be fine with any of these mostly entry level integrated amps (that cost less many of the cables discussed here )

@adrmi sent you a note

Looking at the CA-1 ad again, look at the history. A second CA-1 he's selling seems odd. 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1189331865648647

Might also want to look out for a pre-owned, Heed Elixir. You can find something wothwile for $800-ish. Be patient

I know this sounds a little counter productive but given all the recommendations you have received, if I were in your shoes I would begin to make a list of retail stores that carry the brands on my short list. I would find a city or town within driving distance… whereby I could listen to a few or even a couple of my choices, that would be ideal. I would call ahead to these dealers and setup listening sessions with my media, my familiar music. I say that because my money has always been tight and once upon a time I thought I liked a brand and bought several components that turned out bad, very bad by shopping online and through forum research. I ended up losing more money than my pride allows me to say. I should have taken the time to really research and listen to brands, get more info from dealers and ultimately make a better choice. It’s unfortunate that much of the dealer’s experience and knowledge gets lost in the mix. I am not saying you should buy from them but in my experience of owing used and new gear, often listening first has been the most revealing factor in making my decision.

@bgross

The Heed website is while very slick unusable for me. That's a hard start to get excited about a product (and my expectations for an audio web site are low).

@2psyop 

I wish I could listen to all these amps at dealers. I wouldn't take a dealers time though unless I know I would buy the product if I liked it. (Ideally they would lend it for a home trial but they don't and I don't blame them.) 

If they carried at least 3 brands on my list, I might try it. Unfortunately many of these are direct sales. Yet, it's a good idea, thank you!

There is one dealer in a 100 miles that would actually "be there" for me, and two others - one wouldn't lift a finger for a customer like me and the other one would just pitch whatever he wanted to get rid of, these old-timers can be unique characters.

long story short, as much as the AVA seemed the best deal, the lack of pre-amp removed it from my list. The next steps are a process of elimination

Rogue, Simaudio, Primare and Hegel have met my criteria and received a lof of positive feedback. Rogue and Primare have newer items in my price range, Hegel does not and Simaudio models are 20 year old for this price vs the 2-5 years Rogue and Primare model's age. I just have to figure out how and where to listen to these before pulling the trigger. 

Take a look at the Rotel, A12 is 60WPC and A14 is 80WPC, Used you can pick up in your price range. ( from $400 to $700 ) I have an A12 that I’ve enjoyed for a few years until I upgraded to the Micromega M-100. I now have it in my 3rd system feeding vintage Advent 5012’s which I use sparingly but I still enjoy. They are quality made products at a reasonable price.

thanks @rbull11 it's one of the easiest ones to try and I probably will (e.g. BestBuy)

It's hard to beat the Rogue Sphinx V3 with Gold Lyon tubes, even with separate components. It is that good.

thanks @russ69 it's on top of my list

@drmusic that is a nice integrated amplifier.  Tube preamp and solid state amp side is a great idea.  

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/818177427186815

@stanleylocke I missed it, what was it?

little update, I tried the Rogue Sphynx and an older Creek. Rogue was not a good match in my system. Creek was OK but not too exciting. 

I am exploring my options to try used Sims and a Billie but I may not be able to return them so my purchase would final. 

Hard to believe the Sphynx wasn't a good match..What were it's issues with your system?

@freediver maybe it was the specific item/something off, they sounded flat, lifeless, boring. I had big expectations, I wasn't biased. Could just be synergy too. 

The ad is for a NAD C340 for $165. I know it's still listed. Not sure why the link doesn't work. The seller is in Katonah, NY. I looks to be in really good shape. Search FBMP in ZIP 10536. 

Some Schiit in your system might be worth considering.

https://www.schiit.com/products/ragnarok-1

Find a Heed Elixir or Simaudio 240 they are real inexpensive new as they are discontinued. 

@stanleylocke Thanks! NAD is still on my list. So is Cambridge Audio.

@g2the2nd I can’t get onboard with the look. Must be good value though

@tkrtrb125 yes Simaudio is winning. Virtually (and virtually only, I can’t buy it if I don’t have a return option as I have never heard one). I might drive a few hours this weekend to hear one.

Until a good match comes up in my area, I am left with a few brands I can try from BestBuy and Crutchfield. Kind of ampless in the meantime, but time is on my side :)

The seller also has the NAD on Ebay. 

@stanleylocke the logistics part of it is iffy: If I buy something used from someone, that will be it. If it’s not working out, I will be stuck with it or I can resell it at a significant loss - 2-400 dollars, practically a third of my budget, which will put me in a forced downgrade situation. (Happened a few times) So I have to tread carefully. I bought a lot of used equipment that went to electronic recycling because apparently no one wanted it but me at one point.

My sense is that there a lot of sellers and very few buyers and the prices are not coming down still. But I can try NAD from a few places to try and keep if it’s a good fit. And then I am not even accounting for unused equipment, it’s probably similar to yachts in the harbor. People buy expensive hifi gear, use it a few times and then put a tablecloth over it.

@gano Look into the Belles Aria integrated. American made, 75wpc, phono stage, headphone amp. It's a great amp---lots of positive reviews on AG. Cost is $2500 but you can get a demo at a good deal. Good luck!

I’ve been very impressed with Vincent value. If I were looking 👀, I’d seriously consider Vincent. FWIW, Their PHO 700/701 is a giant killer.

@bluorion I have heard great things about Belles, I never had success contacting them. Is it a hobby company that doesn't like to sell? ::)

@ml8764ag You are right. I am looking onto Vincent Audio used and demos, they are under a $1000!

@gano  I purchased mine (demo) from Audio Connection in NJ. Ask for Johnny Rutan---excellent dealer. https://www.audioconnect.com 

Hope this helps!

thanks @bluorion !

I will reach out to them.

@gano 

Don't know whether anyone has mentioned TMR (The Music Room). They offer trial period/returns on their used gear and are reputable. 

I believe Audio Connection offers these options on new gear -- not sure about used. Ask them. 

Good luck!

@stuartk absolutely

TMR charges for shipping and 5% restocking fee. It adds up to around $100 on a $1000 gear. Which is ok but when my budget is $800 it is a cut. 

There are about 5 companies that do accept returns and charge very little, mainly the shipping for new gear. 

Where I am out of ideas is about 4 different private seller items that meet my criteria. I have never heard those makes and models, and my only option to buy and resell in other words take on the risk that it may not work. 

If only there was a "dating app" for audiophiles that would facilitate people with various gear to visit each other and listen to what they are interested in.... and might buy, it could be even more fun.

Again, I am not complaining just brainstorming.

@gano

If only there was a "dating app" for audiophiles that would facilitate people with various gear to visit each other and listen to what they are interested in.... and might buy, it could be even more fun.

This is one benefit of joining a local audio club... if you can find one in your area. But given that it’s not likely you’ll find someone with all the same gear as you have in a similar sounding room, it comes down to how experienced you are and how well you can assess the sonic impact of a particular component within a system. You might be able to borrow something but I wouldn’t count on it.

Where I am out of ideas is about 4 different private seller items that meet my criteria. I have never heard those makes and models, and my only option to buy and resell in other words take on the risk that it may not work.

Yes. I get it. Personally, I’ve done this only rarely. I try to minimize the risk by buying from shops that offer returns but the reality is, you can only afford what you can afford, and when you don’t have much to spend to begin with, the prospect of paying shipping and restock charges isn’t feasible.

There are certain realities of the market that cannot be gotten around and trying to do so can result in considerable stress. I know. I’ve been there. This suggestion isn’t going to make your day but sometimes the best move is to simply wait and save up more.

@stuartk very sensible and wise feedback, thank you. I don’t have to have a ~$1000 integrated. It would be a nice to have. All the things I must have, I do so I am taking baby steps.

I will look up if there is an audio club around me. I think most audiophiles are introverts so less likely than a book club....

btw your house is stunning, from your profile photos. 

@gano

You’re welcome.

The way I see it, there’s no point in banging your head against the wall. I’ve tried it and all it does is generate frustration. ;o)

Have you played with speaker positioning much? This can definitely make a difference and it’s free !

@stuartk yes I played with speaker positions. Now that I don't have an amp, all positions sound the same to my ear though :)

But I totally understand, and I am not frustrated.  I will make the best with what I have.

@gano 

Oh... somehow, reading through the thread, I missed that fact. 

I am not 100% I am done (who is ever) but at least I am not chasing 6 different amps.

I tried

• Vincent SV-500
• Rogue Sphinx v3
• Yamaha S801
• Creek Evolution 100A

I could not try Hegel, Simaudio, Billie. etc. Through the process I learned that the amp is really the heart of the system. Maybe for the simple reason that swapping speakers is easier than swapping amps. (More steps)

As the wording suggests, I did not keep any of the above. I liked the Creek the most and it's still a contender. I conceded to that Hegel and Simaudio is outside my budget even used.  But there are other choices, the AVA and NAD for instance. 

Still chasing that sweet, warm, liquid and detailed sound 

Why do you need a phonostage? I believe you said you have one. You are also using a CD player. Have i missed something?

@mesch  I do not need a phono stage. Was I confusing about it?

@gano the confusion was probably mine.  Maybe it was an issue abut amp having preamp outputs?

Since you remain interested in NAD I would look for a used C326BEE or C356BEE integrated amplifier. I have owned both  and find them excellent for the $.  

thanks @mesch I am interested in those. Since they are no longer made, my only option is used, which is what kept me on the fence until now. (well.... and the looks, is a bit of an issue with NAD in general)

Yes, NAD appears somewhat 'plain Jane'.  However i ave always found the sonics to be to my liking given the price point. I like the fact that the preamp and amp sections can be separated. They also have a second pre output for powered subwoofer. 

@mesch what do you think of the newer NADs? The 3050s seem to enter the used market and obviously must be a great combination of features and quality?

Not heard any of the new NAD products. 

@gano There is a like new Rega Elex integrated for sale on AG. It is up for 

$995,  retail was ~$1700. 

Thanks @mesch I will check it out!