Primare/ Vincent Adio /NAD /Rogue/ AVA /Hegel...- need a simple and reliable integrated
I came up with this list based on price and functions but all I know is that they are (mostly) boutique brands, cherished by audiophiles. I have heard NAD and Vincent and none of the rest.
Vincent SV-500
Primare I2*
Rogue Sphinx v2
Audio by Van Alstine Vision SLR
Hegel H160/ H120
NAD C368
Simaudio Moon I-5
I don't stream, I have a turntable and CD player. I am good with 50Watts per channel, and I would like to avoid tubes for no-fuss maintenance. I have Klipsch RP8000F speakers. I prefer sound on the warm side, I mostly listen to 60s and 70s rock and some soul/jazz/blues. I have decent hearing, I enjoy a nice soundstage but I nothing as critical and analytical as some of you/the typical audiophile.
I am a bit shallow, looks are important :) My budget would allow me to buy one of these used 5-10 years old (stretched... price is key, I would prefer a cheaper model with less functions)
If you own or have heard any of them and can tell me what the best choice/value is based on sound and reliability, that would be a great help.
@stanleylockeThanks! NAD is still on my list. So is Cambridge Audio.
@g2the2ndI can’t get onboard with the look. Must be good value though
@tkrtrb125 yes Simaudio is winning. Virtually (and virtually only, I can’t buy it if I don’t have a return option as I have never heard one). I might drive a few hours this weekend to hear one.
Until a good match comes up in my area, I am left with a few brands I can try from BestBuy and Crutchfield. Kind of ampless in the meantime, but time is on my side :)
The ad is for a NAD C340 for $165. I know it's still listed. Not sure why the link doesn't work. The seller is in Katonah, NY. I looks to be in really good shape. Search FBMP in ZIP 10536.
@freediver maybe it was the specific item/something off, they sounded flat, lifeless, boring. I had big expectations, I wasn't biased. Could just be synergy too.
Take a look at the Rotel, A12 is 60WPC and A14 is 80WPC, Used you can pick up in your price range. ( from $400 to $700 ) I have an A12 that I’ve enjoyed for a few years until I upgraded to the Micromega M-100. I now have it in my 3rd system feeding vintage Advent 5012’s which I use sparingly but I still enjoy. They are quality made products at a reasonable price.
long story short, as much as the AVA seemed the best deal, the lack of pre-amp removed it from my list. The next steps are a process of elimination
Rogue, Simaudio, Primare and Hegel have met my criteria and received a lof of positive feedback. Rogue and Primare have newer items in my price range, Hegel does not and Simaudio models are 20 year old for this price vs the 2-5 years Rogue and Primare model's age. I just have to figure out how and where to listen to these before pulling the trigger.
The Heed website is while very slick unusable for me. That's a hard start to get excited about a product (and my expectations for an audio web site are low).
I wish I could listen to all these amps at dealers. I wouldn't take a dealers time though unless I know I would buy the product if I liked it. (Ideally they would lend it for a home trial but they don't and I don't blame them.)
If they carried at least 3 brands on my list, I might try it. Unfortunately many of these are direct sales. Yet, it's a good idea, thank you!
There is one dealer in a 100 miles that would actually "be there" for me, and two others - one wouldn't lift a finger for a customer like me and the other one would just pitch whatever he wanted to get rid of, these old-timers can be unique characters.
I know this sounds a little counter productive but given all the recommendations you have received, if I were in your shoes I would begin to make a list of retail stores that carry the brands on my short list. I would find a city or town within driving distance… whereby I could listen to a few or even a couple of my choices, that would be ideal. I would call ahead to these dealers and setup listening sessions with my media, my familiar music. I say that because my money has always been tight and once upon a time I thought I liked a brand and bought several components that turned out bad, very bad by shopping online and through forum research. I ended up losing more money than my pride allows me to say. I should have taken the time to really research and listen to brands, get more info from dealers and ultimately make a better choice. It’s unfortunate that much of the dealer’s experience and knowledge gets lost in the mix. I am not saying you should buy from them but in my experience of owing used and new gear, often listening first has been the most revealing factor in making my decision.
@drmusicI have zero reasons not to buy this. Other than I am waiting if my offer was accepted for a Sim I-5.
@agwca I am sold on Sim or Rogue or Ava. I just don't see how Hegel or Primare could have any advantages, they might be just as good but not better. If I streamed, it would be a different story.
Pre-out, Remote, SS or hyrbid, I could even see the Billie, but that's too expensive. I am pleased to say, I'd be fine with any of these mostly entry level integrated amps (that cost less many of the cables discussed here )
Just saw the CA-1 too. Although the rave reviews, not having pre-outs is an issue, not a large one though. Its getting rave reviews but there's alot out there. I was tempted but the Keces is really good. Even if the CA-1 is better and more powerful as it was stated to sound better than a Exposure amp and someone stated it had better tonality than a hegel, its still opinion and they all play in a similar league, perhaps small differences here and there but that's what some of us pick up.
as to the Keces E40, I bought it from readings a SOundnews review, and I was looking for a small form factor amp. It's built well, sounds great and is sufficient for my needs. There are two RCA inputs open for a source as well as a mm input (which I do not use) and a usb basic input for desktop uo to CD quality. It also has variable pre outs which works well enough for me.
Power Holdings Audio in NJ has them and while Arthur may no longer be the distributor, he can order them. The 1st one I bought from him on sale Black Friday. He does from time to time sell demo units for around 20% off or so. These are setup for US/Canada voltage whether 110 or 115 or 120 not sure. There are overseas distributors/sellers in Europe and the East. Alot of written reviews.
Measured to put out 61/75 watts 2 channel at 1K Hz but another site measured 34/61 watts 8/4 ohms probably along the lines of 20hz to 20Khz but not specifically stated. Some sites sell it as 50 watts, a few 40 watts. On my Dali Opticon 1s I usually listen at 10pm to 12:30pm position on the dial.
Take your time unless you want to jump on the CA-1. can't go wrong there as to SQ per what others state. A Hegel can be gotten used for reasonable. Galion is raising interests but they are new. There's a bunch of others as well but I can't comment on much more as I don't have any experience with those. Alot with small speakers.
Hope it helps. That CA-1 does look sweet though. Ask if transferable warranty if you do. Still a nice form factor...but no preouts. I think SVS sells some kind of kit regarding these kind of amps to bettter connect with a sub.
I use both a Hegel h160 and a small Keces E40. For my speakers the Hegel is definitely overkill. The biggest difference I hear between these 2 amps are on my Dali speakers. The voices have a bit more pop and sometimes glare in movie soundtracks where I think sound is processed differently than music, perhaps better resolution and the piano strikes a bit more livliness, adding to the weight and speed of notes whereas the Keces rounds the sharpness, it's smooth, warmer side of neutral by a hair and adds bass heft, enough speed and texture that alot of inexpensive amps do not. It shows in the damping factor measured from a site I found. The hegel is the better amp by power, specs, etc., but the little Keces E40 does not fall far behind in SQ in my systems.
Enough so that I may sell the Hegel h160 in the coming weeks as I do not plan on upgrading my speakers at this time. I wanted mini systems that perform and I now have 2 Keces E40s using decent under a grand dacs. The 2 systems offer a bit of a different flavor, using Dali and Triangle speakers. Even if I upgrade my speakers, they will still be small standmounts such as Closer OGY or a few other small ones which the Keces should still drive well.
Can't say enough good things about the little amp and prefer it over Rega and a few others in its category I have heard but there are alot of decent and reasonably priced amps out there. The Van Alstine CA/NP amps are getting attention , there's Galion, among some others that should hold value over time. But if you find a used Keces for cheap, grab one. Even at retail I think its worth it. Looking at the power and caps you wouldn't think it could sound this good. Just stay at or above 4 ohms. Going below that I think produces too much heat. Hard to drive low sensitivity speakers won't get loud. But it will drive them within its power band.
@ganoCheers and Happy hunting. This is honestly the best time since the excitement and anticipation is almost priceless. Don’t keep us hanging and let us know what you decide on!
I would advise to audition the amps you’re interested in. If from a local seller, try to go to their place and listen there. I know synergy and space along with equipment is different but at least you checked it out. Also keep in mind to be ready to leave and not purchase. This is the hardest part. Time and control. Happy hunting.
oh and the Prologue Premium from PrimaLuna has a remote. Cheers
I have a Musical Fidelity M6500i integrated amp and a Rogue Atlas Magnum III. The first is a solid state beast but yet very refined, the second is a tube integrated that is clear and warm. I really like both. Very well built and quiet. I can’t speak about the other brands.
thanks @chrshanl37that very much matches my wish list - what the Primare does. I don't think I will be able to try 15 amps but 2 or 3 would be a good start :)
I can only speak on the I30 and it is one of my favorite amps. I too listen to a lot of old rock, punk, blues, jazz and lo fi indie. The I30 has a really lush warm sound that makes even poor recordings sound fantastic. It sounds much bigger and more powerful than a lot of other amps I’ve owned. During covid I got on an integrated amp kick and must of tried 10-15 amps in the 1-2k price range. I think I paid about $350 for it from a seller on another audio site because it had a wonky input selector. At the time I had a Kinki Studio and the Sim I3.3. I preferred it over the Kinki and was right up there with the Simaudio. The sound is very similar to my much more expensive Audia Flight. For the price a used Primare is a heck of deal. I gave mine to my daughter. Hegel is another great suggestion but as you said, it’s price prohibitive as is Simaudio unless you can get lucky and find an I5.
Best of luck, looking forward to hearing about your decision.
@chrshanl37your experience may be key to my decision, you had Hegel and Primare too. Hegel used is still expensive, what did you like about the Primare that stood out?
Within the 1k-1.5k price range i’ve owned a Yamaha A S2100 and RN 803, Vincent sv236 mkll, 237mk, and the sv 236 as well as Hegel H160, Primare I30, Sim i3.3, I5 and a few others I probably forgot about. For your speakers and musical taste I’d opt for an older Primare, you might find an I20 or I30 in or around your budget.
@freediverIt looks like a sweet deal. If I had $1500 (which I may just wait to save up) I would choose between the Simaudio,
AVA and Rogue.
The Hegel and the NAD C 3050 are also attractive amps but I prefer less features and power in general and digital stuff and I see fewer compelling reasons to pursue those.
The Denon PMA-1600NE and the Rotel A11 have been sitting in my online shopping for a couple days now, I probably couldn't go wrong with either of them, aside from my mental defect that I need an "audiophile" amp.
@irjonesI agree but I am also worried I can be just as disappointed in a $2000 amp than in a $500 one, it's a risky game. My only safety would be if I can try it first. When I buy used, I have to call it final, as re-selling would come at a loss.
On the plus side my budget is modest enough that I am not rolling the dice with 1000s just 100s.
HI, I purchased the YAMAHA a-s 701, on a tight budget. And I am truly sorry. Wait until you have saved up for something that will please you for years, not leave you contiually searching for it's replacement.
The guys here are really helpfull, and are all genuine.
@mdalton with the CAD-USD rate, if it's in top condition, it's a fair price.
@mbmi I do not know* how to get in touch with Belles or any listed nearby dealers. That's a very outdated list. I highly value his work but he doesn't seem to care about selling.
* I mean I do know, I message them many times, zero response.
Yes, though couple points. $1000 20+ years ago is $1800 in today’s dollars, and $750 Canadian is $573 U.S. I agree though that if OP interested he might want to offer less. I still have my old Complete, though it’s boxed and in storage now - I’d offer it to the OP but it has a crackly sound in left channel when adjusting volume; would require service. Re OP question re detail, I would think it would be a nice match for the Klipsch. I originally paired mine with JMLabs Cobalt 816 speakers, which lean towards analytical. The combo was nicely balanced.
@mashif It's hard to beat the Rotel. I am close to pulling the trigger on Crutchfield. Or Denon PMA-1600NE on Amazon. They are both handsome and similar specs.
@meschYes, the SET 120 is another good one, I am just too hyped up about the C2 it got such great reviews.
I agree that if you can increase your budget to the $1500 point better options become available. If I was looking for a SS integrated at that price point I would be looking at AVA . Their Control amplifier is now the C1, and was the SET 120 . They have a used SET 120 that is a little over 1 year old for sale listed on their website.
One feature of the Rotel line is the remote. It controls everything including tone controls. If you use them, you can adjust settings from your listening position. I believe they also have Bluetooth is you want to audition something from an online source.
@mdaltonit looks like a quality amp, I will put it on my list
One thing that would be nice is a remote - for the volume. I used to have an integrated with a remote and it makes a difference, for small adjustment I wouldn’t get up.
@pangeekI have heard the Primaluna and once seller even wanted to throw it into the deal for Monitor Audio speakers. It seems to be a very popular choice. As shallow as it sounds, it looks bulky to me. But if the sound was magical, I would definitely consider it.
$1500 is the magic pricepoint. new AVA C2, new Rotels, used Primares, used Hegels, a lot of good deals. I might get there someday, I am posting a lot of vintage items that I have a hard time parting with. It could be 5 months to a year, I can wait....
@mesch thanks for the feedback on Audio Refinement, was it detailed "enough" yet warm? Again, I don’t have the most discerning ears. My test for details is ELO that can easily fail to lay out the Orchestra’s instruments (let alone Liszt - I will never have a system that reproduces the nuances correctly)
Generally I find audiomart and tmr more reasonably priced (sellers don’t have to make up for the fees) but I am looking everywhere
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