Primare/ Vincent Adio /NAD /Rogue/ AVA /Hegel...- need a simple and reliable integrated

@freediver 

thanks! 

My oversight about AVA

I have a phono preamp, I don't need it in the integrated, so I should have mentioned it.

My budget is around $800. These are all around 12-1400 so I would have to keep saving or get lucky.

I am very interested in the Rogue as well in the Primare. I am lukewarm on the Vincent and the NAD but they seem to be good mid-fi amps. The Hegel is at the higher end, price-wise, so I should probably get it out of my head.

I will read up about the Rogue! 
I would also add Sugden but it's way out of my budget.

I should add Audio by Van Alstine ca1

@freediver The Rega came up in my search and I have a Rega TT. But I can't get over the look of the Brio

@ricmech23 thank you, I am considering Peachtree too, little hesitant about its looks

@mike4597 good to hear, I haven’t heard/read any complaints about Rogue

@corelli that’s a very good deal, and sells as new so that I could try risk free

@blackbag20 Classe checks all the boxes, a bit higher end/higher priced (most Canadians are) I will keep my eye open for it

@mesch Onkyo-C-7030 and Simaudio Moon lp 110 v2

@mgw thank you, I will look it up!

@boxcarman I actually like the Hegel looks (not initially) I would love to hear them.

@yogiboy very true. Yamaha has been well reviewed. That would leave me money for a new cartridge too

@mashif and it sells on Crutchfield, easy trial!

Lots of good suggestions, thank you!

@lanx0003 

thanks for the CA link! I made a list of about 20 brands and crossed 4 or 5 for the looks. I am very intrigued by CA but the older models looks better,

thanks @2psyop I like Rogue on paper, haven't heard it yet. Your system(s) is amazing!

@mdalton it looks like a quality amp, I will put it on my list

One thing that would be nice is a remote - for the volume. I used to have an integrated with a remote and it makes a difference, for small adjustment I wouldn’t get up.

@pangeek I have heard the Primaluna and once seller even wanted to throw it into the deal for Monitor Audio speakers. It seems to be a very popular choice. As shallow as it sounds, it looks bulky to me. But if the sound was magical, I would definitely consider it.

$1500 is the magic pricepoint. new AVA C2, new Rotels, used Primares, used Hegels, a lot of good deals. I might get there someday, I am posting a lot of vintage items that I have a hard time parting with. It could be 5 months to a year, I can wait....

@mesch thanks for the feedback on Audio Refinement, was it detailed "enough" yet warm? Again, I don’t have the most discerning ears. My test for details is ELO that can easily fail to lay out the Orchestra’s instruments (let alone Liszt - I will never have a system that reproduces the nuances correctly)

Generally I find audiomart and tmr more reasonably priced (sellers don’t have to make up for the fees) but I am looking everywhere

@mdalton with the CAD-USD rate, if it's in top condition, it's a fair price. 

@mbmi  I do not know* how to get in touch with Belles or any listed nearby dealers. That's a very outdated list. I highly value his work but he doesn't seem to care about selling. 

* I mean I do know, I message them many times, zero response. 

@mashif It's hard to beat the Rotel. I am close to pulling the trigger on Crutchfield. Or Denon PMA-1600NE on Amazon. They are both handsome and similar specs.

@mesch Yes, the SET 120 is another good one, I am just too hyped up about the C2 it got such great reviews.

@irjones I agree but I am also worried I can be just as disappointed in a $2000 amp than in a $500 one, it's a risky game. My only safety would be if I can try it first. When I buy used, I have to call it final, as re-selling would come at a loss.

On the plus side my budget is modest enough that I am not rolling the dice with 1000s just 100s.

@freediver It looks like a sweet deal. If I had $1500 (which I may just wait to save up) I would choose between the Simaudio,

AVA and Rogue.

The Hegel and the NAD C 3050 are also attractive amps but I prefer less features and power in general and digital stuff and I see fewer compelling reasons to pursue those. 

The Denon PMA-1600NE and the Rotel A11 have been sitting in my  online shopping for a couple days now, I probably couldn't go wrong with either of them, aside from my mental defect that I need an "audiophile" amp. 

Thank you all for the awesome feedback!

@chrshanl37 your experience may be key to my decision, you had Hegel and Primare too. Hegel used is still expensive, what did you like about the Primare that stood out?

thanks @chrshanl37 that very much matches my wish list - what the Primare does. I don't think I will be able to try 15 amps but 2 or 3 would be a good start :)

thanks @2psyop I am a fan of tube preamp with SS amp.combo, some day  

thanks @pangeek! I am an impulsive buyer but my budget keeps me careful .I am sure some day I will grow up to appreciate tubes like the PrimaLuna :)

@agwca The Keces look great. Very reasonably priced too. I don't see a US distributor though. I wonder if they have a 110v version

@drmusic I have zero reasons not to buy this. Other than I am waiting if my offer was accepted for a Sim I-5.

@agwca I am sold on Sim or Rogue or Ava. I just don't see how Hegel or Primare could have any advantages, they might be just as good but not better. If I streamed, it would be a different story. 

Pre-out, Remote, SS or hyrbid, I could even see the Billie, but that's too expensive. I am pleased to say, I'd be fine with any of these mostly entry level integrated amps (that cost less many of the cables discussed here )

@tkrtrb125 still above my current budget but it's a great deal, thank you! My only concern with AVA is the lack of pre out. 

@adrmi sent you a note

long story short, as much as the AVA seemed the best deal, the lack of pre-amp removed it from my list. The next steps are a process of elimination

Rogue, Simaudio, Primare and Hegel have met my criteria and received a lof of positive feedback. Rogue and Primare have newer items in my price range, Hegel does not and Simaudio models are 20 year old for this price vs the 2-5 years Rogue and Primare model's age. I just have to figure out how and where to listen to these before pulling the trigger. 

@bgross

The Heed website is while very slick unusable for me. That's a hard start to get excited about a product (and my expectations for an audio web site are low).

@2psyop 

I wish I could listen to all these amps at dealers. I wouldn't take a dealers time though unless I know I would buy the product if I liked it. (Ideally they would lend it for a home trial but they don't and I don't blame them.) 

If they carried at least 3 brands on my list, I might try it. Unfortunately many of these are direct sales. Yet, it's a good idea, thank you!

There is one dealer in a 100 miles that would actually "be there" for me, and two others - one wouldn't lift a finger for a customer like me and the other one would just pitch whatever he wanted to get rid of, these old-timers can be unique characters.

thanks @rbull11 it's one of the easiest ones to try and I probably will (e.g. BestBuy)

thanks @russ69 it's on top of my list

thanks @bluorion !

I will reach out to them.

@stanleylocke I missed it, what was it?

little update, I tried the Rogue Sphynx and an older Creek. Rogue was not a good match in my system. Creek was OK but not too exciting. 

I am exploring my options to try used Sims and a Billie but I may not be able to return them so my purchase would final. 

@freediver maybe it was the specific item/something off, they sounded flat, lifeless, boring. I had big expectations, I wasn't biased. Could just be synergy too. 

@stanleylocke Thanks! NAD is still on my list. So is Cambridge Audio.

@g2the2nd I can’t get onboard with the look. Must be good value though

@tkrtrb125 yes Simaudio is winning. Virtually (and virtually only, I can’t buy it if I don’t have a return option as I have never heard one). I might drive a few hours this weekend to hear one.

Until a good match comes up in my area, I am left with a few brands I can try from BestBuy and Crutchfield. Kind of ampless in the meantime, but time is on my side :)

@stanleylocke the logistics part of it is iffy: If I buy something used from someone, that will be it. If it’s not working out, I will be stuck with it or I can resell it at a significant loss - 2-400 dollars, practically a third of my budget, which will put me in a forced downgrade situation. (Happened a few times) So I have to tread carefully. I bought a lot of used equipment that went to electronic recycling because apparently no one wanted it but me at one point.

My sense is that there a lot of sellers and very few buyers and the prices are not coming down still. But I can try NAD from a few places to try and keep if it’s a good fit. And then I am not even accounting for unused equipment, it’s probably similar to yachts in the harbor. People buy expensive hifi gear, use it a few times and then put a tablecloth over it.

@bluorion I have heard great things about Belles, I never had success contacting them. Is it a hobby company that doesn't like to sell? ::)

@ml8764ag You are right. I am looking onto Vincent Audio used and demos, they are under a $1000!

@stuartk absolutely

TMR charges for shipping and 5% restocking fee. It adds up to around $100 on a $1000 gear. Which is ok but when my budget is $800 it is a cut. 

There are about 5 companies that do accept returns and charge very little, mainly the shipping for new gear. 

Where I am out of ideas is about 4 different private seller items that meet my criteria. I have never heard those makes and models, and my only option to buy and resell in other words take on the risk that it may not work. 

If only there was a "dating app" for audiophiles that would facilitate people with various gear to visit each other and listen to what they are interested in.... and might buy, it could be even more fun.

Again, I am not complaining just brainstorming.

@stuartk very sensible and wise feedback, thank you. I don’t have to have a ~$1000 integrated. It would be a nice to have. All the things I must have, I do so I am taking baby steps.

I will look up if there is an audio club around me. I think most audiophiles are introverts so less likely than a book club....

btw your house is stunning, from your profile photos. 

@stuartk yes I played with speaker positions. Now that I don't have an amp, all positions sound the same to my ear though :)

But I totally understand, and I am not frustrated.  I will make the best with what I have.

I am not 100% I am done (who is ever) but at least I am not chasing 6 different amps.

I tried

• Vincent SV-500
• Rogue Sphinx v3
• Yamaha S801
• Creek Evolution 100A

I could not try Hegel, Simaudio, Billie. etc. Through the process I learned that the amp is really the heart of the system. Maybe for the simple reason that swapping speakers is easier than swapping amps. (More steps)

As the wording suggests, I did not keep any of the above. I liked the Creek the most and it's still a contender. I conceded to that Hegel and Simaudio is outside my budget even used.  But there are other choices, the AVA and NAD for instance. 

Still chasing that sweet, warm, liquid and detailed sound 

@mesch  I do not need a phono stage. Was I confusing about it?

thanks @mesch I am interested in those. Since they are no longer made, my only option is used, which is what kept me on the fence until now. (well.... and the looks, is a bit of an issue with NAD in general)

@mesch what do you think of the newer NADs? The 3050s seem to enter the used market and obviously must be a great combination of features and quality?

Thanks @mesch I will check it out!

I have improved my budget to about $1500. I tried different amps (all of the above except AVA and Primare) and I added Simaudio to my list. Also the Heaven Billie but there are nearly zero on the used market. 

Does anyone know if Simaudio is better than the above. Any British amps that would beat these? Sugden?

thank you @freediver the Simaudio is the one I am still after, hard to find one used, maybe because they are endgame. Sugden checks out too but outside my price range.