Preamp/DAC Suggestions

The few times I connected a DAC direct to an amp it was definitely not a good match on my system.   I immediately put a pre back in.  Then last year I bought a really good preamp and it brought my system to the next level.  Amazing upgrade to my entire system.    I’m sure there are a few preamps in that price range that are pretty good. Especially if you buy a used one.  I bought a leftover demo.  It was actually like new for $3500.   It was a $7500 preamp new. Could have never bought that new, that was even a stretch.  Worth every penny

 Buy the best preamp you can with your money, it is the heart of a good system 

“Folks using DACs with volume controls as the best solution are far between. To do this and have great sound is very expensive and requires extreme knowledge and dedication to do it.”  Far from it. What is so hard, it’s actually easier to eliminate a preamp. Set the dac to variable output, use quality xlr cables from dac to the anp(s), and your done. If you get a quality dac, you can set attenuation on or off. I got rid of a top quality preamp and haven’t looked back. 
If you are going all digital, the most important piece in your system is the dac IMO and could stay in your system longer than amps or speakers.

Rose 150b.....it is a fantastic streamer, dac, preamp, and a used unit can be had in the 4k - 4.5k range.  Good luck.

I just saw this combo the other day don't hesitate if its available

I had all 3, but sold the amp due to my big ass room, but the dac/pre + PS5 is top shelf

Audio Alchemy DDP-1/PS-5 and DPA-1 all in $2500 and likely some wiggle room

Folks using DACs with volume controls as the best solution are far between. To do this and have great sound is very expensive and requires extreme knowledge and dedication to do it. In todays world, putting together a DAC and connecting it to an amp ends up with a flat / analytical, non- musical presentation. Most folks that do it, go back to using a preamp. Unless you have lots of money and expertise, get a great preamp…. audio Research, Conrad Johnson, or VAC… then, revisit the issue in 20 years.

Looking for something that will give me a really quiet background and more soundstage.

I owned a Bryston BP6 and it offers these qualities in spades and could save you $$$. I wrote a review on Soundstage and bought the review sample if you want more info.

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/equipment/bryston_bp6_cseries.htm

Here’s one available — they don’t specify if it comes with the remote but that can be purchased from Bryston if needed

https://hifi-sound.com/products/bryston-bp6-999

I think running this with a Pontus ll with their DDC and using an i2s connection would be well under budget and be a huge improvement.  Best of luck.

@soix sorry about that. I should have specified i was looking for solid state. Thanks for taking the time to offer your recommendations. I'm definitely going to check out that Pontus II DAC. Maybe that with the Odyssey @atblackbag20 recommends. I'll go tubes in my office system for sure. 

You will save a few grand to blow on strippers ... and thank me:

https://odysseyaudio.com/tempest-line-and-phono-preamplifier/

Best deal in audio! Promise ...

I'm not really sure I want to use tubes going forward in my main system. My kids and wife use the system for tv and often leave it on, which seems to burn through the tubes.

Well, that would’ve been nice information to have upfront.  Thanks. 

@grateful_dad one thing to consider is that in your $5000 price range (and even above) it’s unlikely you will get a DAC with a built in preamp that will be better than a dedicated preamp. I would focus on a DAC first and not worry too much about the built in preamp. You have few choices, and just to name a few…

Benchmark DAC3 L or HGC (even has analog input)

PS Audio Direct Stream Digital DSD (a bargain now that a new model is anticipated)

Bricasti M3 

You can get PS Audio and Bricasti with a built in network player that would eliminate the need for your Bluesound if you use Roon

@evank I used the amp section of the Rogue for awhile and then went looking for upgrade options. I tried a couple other integrated amplifiers I liked okay but none that I could afford and upgraded the sound of the Sphinx. Then a shop near me had a used Mytek Brooklyn Amp they let me audition at home. I found it really added a lot of detail and improved sound at both lower and higher volumes. Since it was what I could afford at the time, I ran with it and have been happy with the combination for the past couple years. I've rolled a few tubes through the Sphinx and found some better than others to my ears. I'm using Electro-Harmonix ECC82H Golds right now and like them better than the others I've tried. I can't recall offhand if I've tried Mullards, but I think I did for awhile.

I'm not really sure I want to use tubes going forward in my main system. My kids and wife use the system for tv and often leave it on, which seems to burn through the tubes. I do like the tube sound and think I'll end up with a dedicated tube system for my office. But in the main living room system, I'm leaning solid state. The best integrated I've sampled in my home so far is the Atoll IN-200, which may be what I end up with. But I'm thinking I'd rather go with separates just for the fun and variety of being able to upgrade a piece at a time to see how I like the sound. There's an Atoll PR300 preamp available for under $1000 right now that might be a good fit. Then I could upgrade the DAC and eventually the amp. 

@audiotroy I auditioned the ST200 and loved it. But like I wrote above, I'm hesitant to go all in on one piece as it doesn't leave as much room to play with future upgrades. Though I suppose the speakers would be the next upgrade if I went with the ST200. What speakers do you find match best to the Atoll? 

Why are you not using the amp in the Rogue? and what tubes are you using in the pre section. I roll Mullards and NOS Brimars in my Sphinx 3 depending on my mood. The sound is warm and detailed. Maybe better tubes would help, I stream from Tidal via Bluesound Node with an MHDT Orchid DAC Sell the Mytek and look into a better DAC and try some new tubes. 

I would purchase a preamp 1st. Listen to your system with it for awhile and then consider the DAC upgrade. 

If interested in a tube preamp check out Aric Audio. He has a good website, and is easy to talk to. He makes preamps at several price points. His preamps have low output impedance and variable output so can be matched to most any solid state amplifier. 

Lots of really good recommendations here and I don’t envy you having to weed through them all. I’ll just chime in that it seems to me by and large many people find benefit by using an active preamp in their system. While I know there are also lots of people who are very happy using their DAC as a volume control, that can be very system dependent, and I’ve read lots of posts where people using their DACs for volume control then realizing big performance gains by inserting an active preamp. I can’t remember one where someone removed their active preamp and using their DAC as a volume control was an improvement. My point, this is very system dependent but the odds seem to favor using an active preamp, but obviously you should try both ways in your system. FWIW.

Be aware that some dacs buffer signals so syncing with TV picture can be problematic. 

rs507 the m3 is not a true preamp It has no analog inputs

If the op wants a preamp,  the M3 does not have any analog inputs. 

we are a bricasti dealer the m3 is an excellent dac, in fact it is an excetional  Dac for the money.

so you must understand as with everything in audio there is a product for each user we appreciate you love Bricasti but the M3 is not a preamp it is a dac that can be ordered with a volume control option.

so for this reason we recommended the Atoll which is a dac/preamp

Dave and Troy

audio intellect NJ

Atoll and Bricasti dealers

Look at a Bricasti M3. You can find them used or even *New with a good discount that will keep you within your budget.

Thanks for all the suggestions! I'm trying to figure out whether there's a benefit to the sound of using a separate preamp rather than just going DAC with volume control straight to my amp. I think I'll have to do some listening comparisons and see what I hear. I'm inclined to go separates as it'll give more flexibility. Am I wrong in thinking that DAC technology improves pretty quickly such that older models are improved more regularly than with olther components? My instinct is that it makes more sense to put more money into devices like preamps and amps with longer life spans and then upgrade DACs more frequently. But maybe I'm overthinking it. Sounds like plenty of folks are using high-end DACs with volume control and really liking them. 

You didn't mention a price range.  I use my Chord Dave DAC is a preamp/volume control. Excellent results. 

I think a lot of your responses are from the most-recommended-components-on-the-internet list.  I own and use the Dave every day.

Jerry

I use a LinnenberG Satie DAC / Pre-amp going directly into my power amplifiers and I am very happy with the performance.

sorry, just noting that the May L2 does not have a pre amp however, the Holo Spring 3 DAC does have pre amp and is close to the May L2 in terms of SQ. 

it's also a bit cheaper! 

Holo May DAC L2.

Check out reviews from Golden Sound and others.

One of the most highly praised DAC's in the last few years.

I don't own and have not heard this DAC but when you research, it is clear this is the one to buy!

Good luck.

@grateful_dad The T+A DAC 200 that @gasnsteering mentions is exceptional for its price as a DAC preamp combo. In full disclosure, I am an authorized T+A dealer as of April, but I have compared this unit amongst many others even prior to becoming a dealer. In my opinion it is very difficult to beat for any DAC $10K and under, and I highly preferred it over the acclaimed Mola Mola Tambaqui (which is also excellent, but completely different sonically). I have gone into this on other threads if you search this forum for T+A DAC 200.

Definitely consider any DACs you want, but should you consider the DAC 200, just keep in mind that I consider trades at times, and for any items I accept, I’ll offer a generous trade in value towards new equipment. If you have any questions, I’ll also be honest about it’s strengths and weaknesses at its price point.

Lots of possibilities. It would be helpful to see your setup. There is a place to put photos and your components under your user ID. It would be very helpful to see.

But some random thoughts. First, the preamp is critical… it really sets the tone / magic of your system. If you have a Schiit Gungnir multibit… the Yggdrasil would be better… but I would look for the best used tubed preamp… my first choice would be the best used Audio Research preamp you can get your hands on. A REF3 or higher… if you could find a REF 5… could be one you keep for decades. At some later date you could upgrade your DAC to Yggdrasil or a better one.

I’d be all over this like a cheap suit if I were you...

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649880165-linear-tube-audio-microzotl-preamplifier-with-level-2-upgrade/

With the money left over and selling the Sphinx you can probably swing a Denafrips Pontus ll DAC.  These would both be huge upgrades and will take you in the direction you’re looking to go — quiet background with larger 3D soundstage.  That’s what I’d do FWIW.  Best of luck.

Looks like all your sources are digital so why not get a Dac with source switching and variable output (volume control) to drive your power amp. There are many in your price range. The Dac essentially becomes the preamp.

I have a T&A Dac 200 but new it’s beyond you price range.  Probably not available used but the previous generationDac 8 might be.