Power cord upgrade

@mclinnguy I’m a HiJiri fan. Something magical about them. Rarely do they pop up used. More gushing here on Agon

Having a couple audio buddies that you share the hobby with is a really excellent way of hearing just what a different cable in YOUR system will sound like.  You can try it in several different components.  Be careful not to judge too quickly.  I now have an excellent PC that initially didn't sound that good.  It took a couple days of being in the system to show its real SQ.  If the newer one to you doesn't sound noticeably better, it would be better to keep what you have.  A slight improvement or just different sound in general is not a wise decision to keep.  I have 2-3 good audio buddies and we try stuff and listen to each other's system fairly often.  Having a couple additional sets of ears give their opinion is quite helpful.  All of our systems are now considerably better than when we first became friends. In fact, they're darn good sounding.   Plus it's a lot of fun listening and helping each other with something that really interests us.

Bob

Also Hijiri.

On my "must try list". Along with that other Japanese cable manufacturer Acrolink, which I believe was a division of Hitachi metals; they could be believed to have the true 7N copper, they claim to use it. 

Another vote for Audio Sensibility. Also Hijiri.

@devinplombier

It is certainly not significant to a component’s sound quality

Perhaps not, all it does is prove one particular cable can handle more current than the other. It was just my response to someone who keeps claiming all one needs is "any 14 gauge wire". I am quite sure simply looking on an electrical amperage and wire gauge chart is not the best method for improved hifi, and from most reports an excess of gauge is beneficial.

In choosing cables for my system, I will choose based on the results of the best tool available: my ears.

mclinnguy,

just like anything there's different levels of OCC designed wire It's not just the wire that matters it's everything else as well the design of the cable the materials used for insulation that's why audio sensibility is not that expensive It's the bottom end of OCC single crystal wire, only his speaker wire that uses the rectangular OCC is good enough to challenge the very expensive stuff, if you tried the Neotech Sahara or Amazon you wouldn't be going back to the cables you're using now. but they probably are out of your price range, the copper rectangular speaker wire starts at$4,000 US for 2 m and the silver wire starts at $9,000 US for 2 m.

Well, folks, it gets better.

The unit used in the Shunyata video is an Ideal SureTest circuit analyzer model 161-64. I’m remotely familiar with this unit, which in my world is used by building inspectors to detect bootleg grounds that go undetected by regular circuit testers. It is strictly a power line testing tool that has nothing to do with audio.

In the video Caelin uses the ASCC setting of the 161-64, purportedly to demonstrate the current-carrying superiority of his power cable over a random PC power cord, something that should not necessitate professional testing equipment but I digress.

Here is a quote from the 161-64 manual:

ASCC Measurement The SureTest calculates the Available Short-Circuit Current (ASCC) that the branch circuit can deliver through the breaker during a bolted fault (dead-short) condition. The ASCC is calculated by dividing the line voltage by the circuit’s line impedance (hot + neutral). Depressing the side arrow ( ) displays the worst-case scenario where all three conductors (hot, neutral, ground) are shorted together -- the neutral and ground provide a lower impedance via a parallel return path. Note that this second test will trip a GFCI. See the following equations for clarification. ASCC1 = Line Voltage (VHN)/ (Hot Ω + Neu Ω) ASCC2 = Line Voltage (VHN)/ (Hot Ω + 1/(1/Neu Ω+ 1/ Grd Ω)

Again: "the current that the branch circuit can deliver through the breaker during a bolted fault (dead-short) condition".

In other words, the video experiment tells us that a random PC power cord would fail at 500A in a dead short-circuit situation vs the Shunyata cord’s 1000A or so.

This is without a doubt absolutely true, but here is how Shunyata spins it in its literature:

DTCD (Dynamic Transient Current Delivery) analyzer

DTCD is a method of current analysis that measures instantaneous current delivery in the context of a pulsed current draw. in layman’s terms, it is a way of measuring current performance into typical electronic component power supplies.

Sure! If you happen to weld your hot, neutral and ground wires together, as one does 😂🤣

And then this:

DTCD Current measurement: This measurement depicts the difference in available impulse current between Shunyata’s Venom-3 power cord ($99 retail) and a standard black component power cord. Note the enormous difference in the quantity of current available compared to the stock power cord. The stock power cord delivers only 47% of available current compared to 84% with a Venom-3 power cord. By any standard of measure, this is statistically significant.

It is certainly not significant to a component’s sound quality, if nothing else because it describes an event that has a near-zero chance of happening in a listener’s lifetime (a dead short) and if it did, that component’s sound quality would be the least of its owner’s worries.

I hate to say this and bring more grist to critics’ mill, but it’s probably safe to say that in this particular video at least Caelin shows little respect for his viewers’ / customers’ intelligence.

Here is the 161-64 product page in case yall care to take a delve.

@zuesman I see.  I know all about OCC, I used to use Audio Sensibility products and am aware of the personal relationship Steve Huang has with Dr. Ohno. If there is someone who actually has the real OCC stuff I would wager on him. They are great products for the money, but I now get better sound using other products. Go figure.

@devinplombier 

That's 500A, which should cover pretty much any audio-related use case many times over.

Does it though? I found it surprising also, it is a 20 amp circuit and he is pulling 1000 amps out of it. Apparently audio is not a hair dryer or a toaster- it is not about continuous rather instantaneous current delivery, or in Shunyata's slogan DTCD. But this is perhaps why when one connects an excellent audio cable one often hears more loudness and better dynamics. 

mclinnguy,

There's no such purity as 7N copper, the best purity for OCC single crystal copper is 6N, I think you're getting confused with the OCC silver that's 7N.

mclinnguy,

And I'll keep writing how much better OCC single crystal is than OFC obviously you haven't done much research Let me educate you OFC wire has minimum 500 crystal barriers per foot that's little fractures in the wire that the signal has to jump across which causes all kinds of bad things like coldness hardness brightness edginess any one of those things or all of those things and when a company like transparent has the audacity to charge $70,000 for the cheapest crappy wire on the market that pisses me off, I don't like seeing people get ripped off by scam companies like that, OCC single crystal wire has been proven to be the best wire for audio for about 60 years now and the rectangular OCC single crystal wire is even better than the round OCC single crystal wire, but if some people like to get ripped off that's totally up to them I guess, and I even phoned Transparent and asked them why they're not using single crystal instead of cheap OFC wire and you know what the answer was to me which was full of crap? we tested all kinds of wire and we found OFC the best, well it's the cheapest so they can make more profit and just so you know your prices are way off 14 gauge Teflon coated stranded OCC is$9.50 a foot in Canada right now not much less than the US so it is definitely not cheap, but I've done the comparison myself I rewired my monitor audio gold G4 speakers with single crystal and I got a 15 to 20% improvement right across the board and now that I have the platinum 200 ll I'll be doing the same thing and replacing the silver plated OFC that's in there right now.

@zuesman I have seen you write this a few times in various threads.

I can buy 24ga OCC wire for $2.20 CDN per metre. Given one needs 20 strands of this to make a 10ga power cable, the wire would cost me $44 per metre or $88 CDN for a 2m power cable. Given that a company the size of Transparent or Shunyata could buy large quantities of this and get it for a much better price than I, and subtracting the cost of their "cheap" OFHC or OFE C1010, could we assume it would cost them a maximum of about $50 more per power cable? For a $3000 power cable this is negligible. Common sense tells me if it made a difference they would use it. 

I understand if someone wants to sell cables and doesn't have an excellent decades long reputation of selling exceptional sounding cables, they will turn to marketing to and throw numbers, figures and terms in order to sell it. If someone thinks they can buy a 7N OCC cable for $50 and believes everybody else who pays more for their cable is getting ripped off they are fools. I am sure there are those who bought a cable such as this one and thought it sounded great because they believed it was 7N OCC copper and that is the only part that matters- the mind is a powerful thing.

Who is able to actually confirm the purity of the copper, anyway? Do we trust the seller/supplier? I see dozens of resellers of 7N copper wire, who audits them? 

Or if this 7N copper exists, should we care? is this the same as the amplifier that has 0.001% distortion sounds 100 times better than the one that has 0.1% distortion? 

This article is 10 years old now: Roger Skoff on copper purity

Just watch this and learn something

instantaneous current draw

I like to learn, so I watched.

Besides the fact that wire gauge is never mentioned in the video, I was surprised that that crappy PC power cord had a measured .5kA transient current delivery capability. That's 500A, which should cover pretty much any audio-related use case many times over.

Why did Shunyata choose to highlight such a useless metric rather than real-world ones like resistance and temperature increase and voltage drop under sustained high-current use? Unless I'm missing something, it's almost as if they're going out of their way to give critics more ammunition by creating the impression that a crappy PC power cord is more than capable of doing the job, even though we know that overall it is not.

skids

2nd- Transparent or Wire World Silver Electra (PC).

Happy Listening!

I wouldn't go with either transparent or nordost, both those companies use the cheapest wire which is OFC which has 500 crystal barriers per foot with your little fractures in the wire that the signal has to jump across, if you really want to make a big improvement in your system get any power cords made with OCC single crystal wire and if you really want to take it even to the next level after that the rectangular OCC single crystal wire is even better than the round OCC single crystal wire.

@dougthebiker 

I think your speakers may have contributed a little. :) 

Hey there 1971gto455ho, I'm hoping that my detailed response based on experience and with sources will supply other forum readers an option rather than spending serious coin on high end-high mark up power cables.  I cannot overstate how easy and satisfying it is to DIY.  Have a good week.

@vetsc5  

That sir has been my path and as said very rewarding not to mention cost effective. Research replicate, science as we know will definitively assist. It’s staggering the markup of readily available bulk product. With a little finesse it can look pretty as well, winner winner chicken dinner. Nothing snide or inappropriate here, simply an opinion. No connection to that childish derogatory labelling “The Church of Naysayers” Do expect many a manufacturing marketer will hate this sort of recommendation…Tough !

@hce1 

Well said, you write well. 

The irony is those who profess science are usually the ones without any formal education in science, and attempt to "inform" those of us with science degrees how it all works, because they have "all the answers".

There are millions of music fans such as the OP who have overcome their pre-conceived barriers and experimented, perhaps using guidance from experienced audiophiles, then using common sense arrived a reasonable understanding of how different cables affect the sound of their system, and as a result enjoy their music even more. ie: they became audiophiles. I am also one of them. 

And then there are the hardened ones who refuse to wander beyond their belief system for fear of falling off the edge of the planet. 

PS: to my previous response.  Have you considered assembling you own DIY audiophile A/C power cable(s)?  With very basic tools, (wire strippers, Phillips screwdriver, wire cutters. heat shrink tubing and a heat gun for setting the heat shrink (and a beer) you can produce top quality audiophile power cables.  Rather than spend several hundred dollars, or thousands if you are so inclined you can assemble DIY cables equivalent to that high dollar ready-made cable.  Here are some suggestions for raw cable from high quality "economy" cable to high end audiophile cable.

Economy -Coleman Cable Royal 12AWG 3Conductor SJOOO Power cable.  This cable runs $1.80 per foot from www.douglasconnection.com 

As to terminal ends the Wattgate5266i economy power plug connector at $16 is an excellent power plug for the 12AWG mentioned above.  For the source end I suggest the Wattgate 320i economy IEC power connector at $24.  The math indicates that an average 6-foot power cable would cost about $40.  That $40 investment would produce the equivalent of a $250/$300 off the shelf cable.  The next step up would be the Lapp OLFLRX190 CY Shielded 12AWG 3 conductor power cable at $10.40 per foot.  This is a German engineered product made in the USA.  Visit the Douglasconnection.com website above for more detail on any items mentioned here.  Oh, BTW I have no connection with Douglas i just like and use their products.  Finally, if you are Jones'n for that $2000/3000 power cable you can go with the Furutech FTP-3TS20 14AWG power cable at about $90 per meter (3.28 feet).  The 12AWG version of the cable is Furutech FP-TCS31 PC Triple C 12 AWG power cable at about $147 per meter (3.28 feet.  There is a selection of high end Furutech IEC and Power plug connectors that will facilitate nicely with 12 AMG cable.  If you choose diy power cables using any of the Coleman. Wattgate or Furutech products mentioned your efforts will produce power cables that will perform as good if not better that off the shelf cables costing 10 times more than the parts, you'd use to assemble you own.  And you have the satisfaction of doing it yourself not to mention you have saved bank that you can invest i other aspects of your audio rig.  You can do this. Enjoy!

@hce1 

@tkrtrb125

@mclinnguy

I have no problem with the church of the naysayers contributing to discussions initiated by questions about whether a cable replacement will improve the sound of the OP’s system. The question invites their perspective. But, it disturbs me a bit when they chime in on threads initiated by a question in which the OP reports he already is convinced by experience that cables make a difference. In those situations, and this is one of them, their comments are snide and inappropriate, merely self-aggrandizing and self-satisfied.

Even in cases where the OP invites their comments, they offer no value as they build their case on a profoundly flawed (mis)understanding of the relationship between science and reality. The subjects in question are far more complex than their reasonings acknowledge. So, their contributions to any discussion of audio cabling are irrelevant. It is an open forum, though, and they are welcome to comment, however misguided they may be. Hopefully, their persistent jabbing has not dissuaded anyone from experimenting for themselves.

@mclinnguy 100% Correct.

I believe the naysayers systems just are not resolving enough to hear the differences. I know I started out that way. Proof was in the pudding once I made a major jump in equipment.

@1971gto455ho 

@jasonbourne71 

@classicrockfan 

You guys read that above? 

Again appreciate everyone's input, and am surprised at how long this thread stayed alive.

You can thank the guys above for keeping the cables threads alive. I think they must all be cable bi-curious. 

Rather Presumptuous Slightly insulting that aside for one I’m not impressed at all with your Status.  Bragging rights can be commendable I for one comparably don’t see you there. Bells and whistles empty cases and cable risers… It is what it is.

Cheers 

I believe the naysayers systems just are not resolving enough to hear the differences. I know I started out that way. Proof was in the pudding once I made a major jump in equipment.

@1971gto455ho 

@jasonbourne71 

@classicrockfan 

You guys read that above? 

Again appreciate everyone's input, and am surprised at how long this thread stayed alive.

You can thank the guys above for keeping the cables threads alive. I think they must all be cable bi-curious. 

@pindac Well said.

I believe the naysayers systems just are not resolving enough to hear the differences. I know I started out that way. Proof was in the pudding once I made a major jump in equipment.

Again appreciate everyone's input, and am surprised at how long this thread stayed alive.

How many who swap out a Cable and report back immediately about noticeable change, actually revisit the comparisons between the Older in use > Newer in use cable to learn where the real differences are to be found. The more a Cable Signal, Solder and the selected Connector 'Burn In', is the only time the final analysis of the differences are going to be found.

Under the guidance of @slaw  statement " Personal experience is everything ".

My own experiences of exchanging a Cable/Signal Path Wire, is that depending on the Audio System in use. The very noticeable changes that may have been detected are diminished following comparisons where a period of 'Burn In' has been able to occur. The outcome during the comparison, is where personal preference for a particular trait the cable is able to produce will be the attraction. A Bass Note might be a little bit tidier and decay with more realism, a Vocal might push out with a little more forwardness in the Mid Range, either of these will/will not be an attractor to all, each are unique in the end sound and structure of the sound they like. 

Different Cables, when becoming a 'Burnt In' Cable, that is used for a comparison.  Do become much closer in their end sound when heard side by side using the same devices being coupled with the Cables and same Tracks replayed.

I am having access to devices with different resolving capabilities and can say with certainty, relying on the use of my ears only, the less the detail resolving capability of a device or system, will put in place difficulties for detecting a difference between differing cables end sound. The detection of end sound differences remains difficult, even when a single device which is poor at resolving detail, is in use in a system that has supporting devices that are extremely good at resolving detail.

For somebody on a tight budget and using a Audio System that does not resolve the intricate detail from a recording, the idea of making a Cable change will in my view  be premature and not too rewarding/not rewarding at all. The monies considered being used, might be better put aside towards devices that can resolve intricate details better. 

The good thing is that there are very cheap methods out there to experience Cables in use, to learn if monies are worth parting with. Loaners,  30 Day Money Back Guarantees, Used sale Items, especially a good option if a vendor agrees to a trial period as part of the sale, don't ask, don't get. Any of these options will get Cables in ones possession with little risk to their monies, enabling one to gather experiences and underpin the idea of whether a purchase is worthwhile being  made.     

Personal experience is everything 

@1971gto455ho the sole responsibility of science is to produce theories and in best case scenarios the results that the scientists themselves will need to challenge to prove beyond reasonable doubt.
Until we have the means to measure what we hear with an oscilloscope and have it rendered on the screen as measurements, you have an argument but it isn’t a very valid one. I’m totally cool with it though, as I said before, if you osciloscopians, “measurements only” crowd, want claim you have a scientific proof and stick to your guns. Just know there’s more to it.

Recently replaced my Zavfino Fina -OCC with a AQ Tornado Constant Current source PC on my Herron 360 Ref. Instant improvement....more detail along with a sense of refinement.

I’ve posted on this forum based solely on my personally purchased products that intrigued me.

@audphile1   +1       Not everyone is blessed with a sense of refinement.

Grover Huffman Pharoah power cable.  You will thank me later 

I have worked with for many many years different Cables and today it is wire types that are the point of interest for the Signal Path. 

I am yet to invest like the Guy in the Video Link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDVoRBjqdek&t=3s 

+1

Science cannot explain how old the universe is. That number changes every 20-25 years. Oscilloscopes can’t tell me what my system sounds like. Nobody knows 💩. So that’s that for science. 

So there it is without any of the Animosity, Science cannot yet explain it ! Get better ears because one doesn’t hear what an another does? Get a better system because they’ve been able to ‘substantiate’ sight unseen the quality of others. Wow ‘Heap’ 💩 of faith to be sure. 

Thanks @audphile1 , you just saved me the time. If you can't hear the difference, you need a better system, or better ears. The only point I can agree on with the naysayers is that science cannot yet explain it.

That in-itself is a whole lot of opinion with a little sour to boot. You know the old Christmas Carol ‘Do you hear what I hear’ lol 

There’s no 40 year debate here. This is thousands year old debate of random gimps entering conversations they should be no part of to share opinions they can’t substantiate.
 

The OP had asked for a power cord recommendation for a specific component within context of a specific system. And the opinions of those who never even stood within a distance to be able to read the make and model of these components and cables are pouring in. Hoarders of vintage low-fi stereos that retailed for $50 brand new 50 years ago that have captive power cords telling you there’s no difference in cables. Others with DIY garbage kits and low resolution speakers that have been listening to their systems at 115db levels for 30 years share their thoughts on how it’s impossible to hear differences between cables.
 

Gotta love the forums on the internet where you can obtain a legit qualified opinions on everything from cables to marriage counseling from people who have no experience in either. 
Keep it coming! Entertainment is awesome here!

NONBELIEVERS:  Hear me.

I'm an EE since 1980. I would never fall for this noise people emit about cables making any difference -- audible or measurable. In the 80s and 90s I worked designing custom integrated circuits at a couple of the big-name manufacturers here in the US.

BUT THEN IN 1989, working through a pair of Mc60s, after recap, metal film, tube rolling, etc, I heard a *definite* difference in current-adequate power cables. Imagine my hard head being forced to believe. But there it was. A clear difference in clarity of bass, mids, and highs.

So now I am converted. I know less, but I have heard more, and I now believe. You should too.

Crap !!!! Daaa no mentioning of the cable size no mentioning of how it can affect sound just another BS story. Absolutely amazing how a 40 year debate can be explained with $100 analyzer what a joke.

@jasonbourne71 

@1971gto455ho 

Just watch this and learn something

instantaneous current draw

Here is an example of utter sales rubbish, MSRP $9000+

“ REFERENCE Speaker Cable is an essential building block for a Connoisseur Level music or film system. It delivers extended and well-defined bass energy while creating a quiet interface between some of the most challenging speaker and amplifier combinations. Custom machined, highly polished gold-plated, tellurium copper spade lugs transfer power effortlessly through heavy, precision wound OFHC stranding “

The whole of the Wire Business has all the Scientific Backing that is needed.

Attempt to run a Audio System with out Wire of some type in use?

Science or any other level of knowledge will supply a very good explanation for the need of wire. 

I will not suggest a Cable, but will suggest a Wire Type, being a PC Triple C Wire.

This wire is the Wire Manufacturers Furukawa replacement for the OCC Wire.

It is a the Wire Type that has superseded my usage of OCC wire as the Signal Path wire in my own system. I also own this as a wire used in Power Cable.

As a pun, if the PC Triple C wire is experienced in use, the response might be one that encourages one to exclaim " Oh No Dr "     

@squared80 +1! The whole wire business is without scientific backing. It functions as a religion. 

I use all Shunyata. Alpha NR V.2 on my Mimas, and Dave. The new Shunyata Theta NR on Auralic G2.2 streamer. Alpha XC V.2 on Denali 6000 V.2