Point of diminishing returns for a Network Streamers?

I’ve read to where a nice higher end streamer will even make one’s mid tier Dac sound much more improved. The Lumin may be the way to go

I went from streaming Tidal on an iPad to an Innuos Zen MkIII with Roon.

it was like going from a $100 MM cartridge to a $2000 MC cartridge.

The Gold Note DS 10 looks interesting

@abreryclark, if you like Roon I would stick with using a computer of some kind as your streamer.

First off, a general purpose Mac or laptop is not a ideal source for streaming from Qobuz or Tidal. 

Maybe not ... but a general purpose Mac is an ideal source for streaming from Apple Music. For some (not all) listeners, Apple Music may be preferable to Qobuz or Tidal.  Plus, a general purpose computer offers the option to run digital signal processing applications (such as HQ Player or BACCH4Mac.)  DSP is likely to have a much bigger impact on sound quality than your choice of streamers (assuming your streaming device isn't also performing DAC/preamp/other functions).

I usually prefer Qobuz/Tidal over AM, just because Roon does not  support Apple Music.  However, I still have a USB feed from a Mac Mini in order to run DSP (in addition to other music-related functions).  The Mac (or an Apple TV device) also allows you to display album art on a TV screen.

Without question ,gojng cheap on usb cables and or Ethernet cables you loose a lot of information , the most importantEthernet cable is it’s end point 

theQuality ofthe Ethernet hub is too important ,for a midfield priced hub

the uptone audio Ether Regen, $640, next one a Huge step up in your streaming quality the New Synergistic research around $2k  it all adds up if you want Audiophile quality  sounding Audio . Iam still building and spent over $4k just in digital  cables and hub , and will get the synergistic at some point .

or maybe fight optic with Sonore ,or 2 ether regen they too allow single mode fiber optic and buy good receivers they are at least $40-100 each x2 . Good audio is not cheap , but essential if streaming , if not buy a very good CD player and feed them 1 at a time like a record, having a good dac is also much better then the vast majority of streamers all in 1 box.

The lindemann is the best buy around the 1000€  german quality.

My thoughts on priority 

1. Noise is the enemy -  do every thing tiy can to prevent it

2.  Are you happy with the software interface?  

3. connectivity to other devices

4. Price

My Choice was to purchase an all in one solution  Auralic Altair G series streamer/DAC. 

I've had good results moving from a Raspberry Pi4 to a Sonore Optical Rendu streamer feeding a Chord Cutest Dac.

I then moved from the Macbook Pro to an Antipodes server as the Roon core, this was a significant improvement as well.

"The Lumin alone is a significant upgrade over the iFi Zen..."

"If you are using usb to any dac, you will have inferior sq...."

ahhhh yes... anonymous keyboard bravado at its finest, gotta love it...

grains of salt, many grains of salt recommended...

If you are using usb to any dac, you will have inferior sq.

what is a streamer? A computer running a proprietary OS usually running on hardware with gimmick technology to promote a higher price.

Keep any server out of your audio room and use a better interface to the dac than usb. 
Why would anybody think a pi is a better server than say a Mac mini? You think it’s because of Linux? Think again. Every 3rd party streamer uses some version of linux, some with tainted OS’s because the vendor thinks they have a tweak that performs miracles, I would never run a tainted linux because if anything happens to the streamer or the company goes out of business, who will support this linux version? Good luck

Your Luxman integrated deserves a quality digital front end, if your DAC is on par with the Luxman, purchase as follows:

ADOT MCO1 fiber optic kit

LHY 25A LPS with dual 5v outputs

Uptone Audio EtherREGEN switch

Audioquest Forest ethernet cables

Lumin U2 

The Lumin alone is a significant upgrade over the iFi Zen, but coupled with this chain, the sonic gains can be huge.

How do I know this? Because every single step I mention above I have done in both my home and office systems, with fantastic results.

+1 @soix regarding the excellent performance and value of the ifi zen stream... tremendous value, just a terrific sounding product at a very very modest price, does exactly what it is designed to do, no frills but simply superb in its targeted functionality imo

agree also with other comment that a good linear power supply into the zs is essential for best performance

If you don't need volume control and you use Roon as your interface the Pi4 running Roopie would be fine. The iFi zen is a good choice if you aren't inclined to put a raspberry pi togethe and load an OS. 

I have a network connection at my system. So the streamer would not be connected to the computer. The mac would, for now, be the Roon Core only and be discoverable on my netwrok. 

@erik_squires, yea a Pi running Roon + iFi power supply makes for a good sounding streamer for the $ at least.   I have two in the house with SPDIF boards on them.    I did swap out the one in my main system for a more expensive Bricasti M5 and have to admit the difference in sound quality was more than I expected when also using SPDIF.   Relatively speaking I thought it was well worth the difference in cost.    The iFi Zen would be interesting to compare with the Pi.

I just purchased a Meitner MA3 with an integrated Ethernet/Roon streamer and I unfortunately still prefer the M5 running Roon using AES into the DAC.   I was assuming I could sell the M5 when I purchased the MA3, so it screws up my planned net purchase price :(    I really DO wish all the streamers sound the same...

+1 @lalitk 

@aberyclark what DAC are you using?

Having tried every portable device, PC, and Mac I can say with certainty, depending on your other components, the returns are exceptional to at or above your average component cost. [I do not mean blindly using cost as a proxy for sound quality and compatibility at any given cost level… you must due the work to find the very best component]. So, for instance $5K streamer is probably going to be well worth it if your DAC is $5K and you preamp is worth around $5K…etc. This is a generality to point out how very important they are. I could easily see a $12K streamer very appropriate for some systems with an average $5K component level.  Anyway, they are really important.

My most expensive (other than speakers) is my streamer (it does not have a DAC). It cost $22K and I feel was one of the best investments/ value for the money in my system. I have not tried and more expensive streamers, I can confirm no diminishing returns up to here. My streamer produces sound quality at the same level as my analog end and CD player.

First off, a general purpose Mac or laptop is not a ideal source for streaming from Qobuz or Tidal. Couple of things when considering a streaming source,

1) Whole system holistic approach

2) How far you’re willing to go with Ethernet optimization

What DAC you’re currently using?

A good streaming system is not plug n play. There are plenty of threads here that speaks to end users positive experiences with getting the best sound out of streaming by way of employing some sort of noise filtering devices between your router and streaming box.

To answer your question, one glaring difference between Project / iFI Zen and Lumin Mini is with Project / iFI you would need a good outboard Linear Power Supply. I don’t like to clutter my space with multiple boxes (that’s just me). So if you love your current DAC then go with Lumin U1 Mini. If you subscribe to clean and fewer boxes in the signal chain approach then something like Lumin D2 or T2 would be a worthy companion to your Luxman Integrated. Another major consideration is app interface, Lumin app is very good, it certainly not as fancy and complexed as Roon but quite good enough to perform all the basic functions of searching and curating your favorite music with ease thus eliminating your dependency on Roon app and the need for separate server to run Roon Core (more boxes, filters and linear power supplies).

Will you hear a difference in SQ between Project and Lumin, I believe if you set it up correctly, your Luxman Integrated is perfectly capable of conveying the nuances between the two aforementioned streamers.

If streaming is going to be your only source, then don’t monkey around with interm solutions. A properly setup streaming system is capable of transcending both CD and Vinyl playback. I have done it (my system is listed here in virtual systems).

Once you sort out your choice of streamer, give it a go for Network Acoustics passive filters, they come with no questions asked 30 days return policy.

Enjoy the ride!

I've built mine out of a Pi / Ubuntu / Roon with a case the size of a deck of cards plus iFi low noise power supplies for the streamer and DAC.  I'd consider upgrading but I have not yet heard a reason to.

I think the iFi Zen Stream offers a lot of performance/$, and it also incorporates iFi’s noise reduction technology that, especially in your case using an old computer as a source, may be particularly beneficial. If you go to Hifi Shark and search for the Zen Stream there was a guy selling new units for $325 — I just bought mine from him and transaction was great (hooking it up today and will follow up with first impressions vs. streaming Qobuz direct from my iPad/iPhone). FWIW and best of luck.