Pro-ject has them on Amazon. |
Thanks @pindac @noromance but I specifically want the mats I specified because I have a JVC ql10/ tt101 . JVC made a pigskin mat and they are either unobtainable or silly priced - almost as much as the deck @halcro is a seasoned JVC user having tried all sorts of mats and he has given that recommendation- others such as @lewm too. trust me I have considered many options and have settled on those specific options |
I have never tried a leather or pigskin mat on my Victor TT101, or on any other turntables, so I am not among those who recommend them. However, I am sure that such mats might be excellent. I use an SAEC SS300 mat on my TT101. Considering the very high cost you quote for pre-fabricated leather mats, wouldn't it be a simple matter to buy a piece of leather or pigskin and make your own? |
The job of the mat is to control vinyl resonance while the cartridge is tracking the groove, thus preventing the vinyl from talking back to the cartridge. This results in measurably and audibly superior performance. To do this, the platter pad has to have the same durometer as the vinyl itself. To know if the pad is doing its job, turn down the volume all the way. Play an LP and listen to the sound emanating from the cartridge itself. If you can hear it from more than a foot away the platter pad is falling short of its goal. |
Just not true. This again is where intuitive/rational/objective/measurement based talk diverges from something called "listening". A platter pad with the same durometer as vinyl (is there such a thing as "the vinyl"?) may sound best with one turntable/arm/cartridge combination while a copper, cf, or bare aluminum (as Harry Weisfeld advocated for years with his turntables) may sound best with others. I prefer the sound of no platter mat with my two decks. Go with the leather is my advice. If nothing else, it looks sexy. |
Halcro uses the pigskin mat in conjunction with the Victor Glass mat. The Jico pigskin was a limited run some years ago. The key is the thickness - the Victor and Jico are much thinner than most leather mats. Best place to find the Vitor mat is on Yahoo Japan - they usually sell for around $50USD and come up from time to time. Topclassaudio has an original Victor Glass mat and pigskin leather mat set for sale currently. |
@fsonicsmith FWIW, when I first heard a proper platter pad designed around the points I previously mentioned, measurements didn’t come into it for many years- it was all about the listening as you say! To your point: every turntable we tried the mat on sounded better than every turntable that didn’t have the mat; it was making a bigger difference than the cartridge, arm or turntable itself! IMO its a real shame its not made any more! The designer (Warren Gehl of ARC who spent many years designing it) of the mat once told me that the hardness of the mat is a key factor. This suggests that one could make a reasonably good mat if it were simply pressed of vinyl and otherwise had materials embedded (as his mat did) that also provided damping properties. |
@fsonicsmith Thanks! And don't worry about it- The key to dealing with argument on the 'net is to not take it personally, and in the long run you make more friends! 😀 |
Wouldn't you want the mat to isolate the record from the turntable motor and bearing noise? I have a Hexmat eclipse mat (admittedly on the expensive side) but it only touches the record with about 1 square millimeter total area from 13 tiny nubs embedded (minimally touching) within a hexagonal mat of unknown material. I guess he doesn't want copy cats. When playing it looks like it is floating, and is about the same height as my standard issue Rega mat 2-3mm. I agree with the theory behind it and I have tried a bunch of different mats and haven't heard much of a difference but this one has great anti static/dust properties and never lifts up when removing a record like the Rega felt mat did at times. FWIW it is the Audiophile Man's favorite and he claims it reduces the noise floor. |
Hi guys Top class - 500 usd for a mat and glass - sorry but that's more than i spent on the deck with the arm plus the service (no kidding) I want to be as close to the original mat as possible - i am just told the Jico is the closest. I am reasonably open minded about other options - just I am told that the closest is the Jico. I would consider other options - ie. 47 labs mats appear to be sold by company in HK - unfortunately no email response to my enquiries... |
Soko, Your mat represents the "other" school of thought around mats, the idea that you want to hold the LP away from the platter and from any noise or vibrations that might enter into it from the platter. The Resomat, sold by Vic of Trans-Fi, I think, is another example of such an approach, as was the old Transcriptors platter per se, that held the LP on little pedestals topped with tiny pieces of felt. The up- or downside of that approach, depending upon one's point of view, is that the LP is free to resonate secondary to the energy imparted into the LP by the action of the stylus tracing the groove, and also any warp in the LP is uncorrected in any way. I can imagine how that might sound, both in a good way and in a less good way. |
Lew - it makes sense to me, moreso with the Rega philosophy of light plinths and arms, not so much with the heavy platters and clamps, etc., as long as the table is isolated well (mine is on top of a Townshend platform that sits on a wall mounted shelf). The vibrations I measure (admittedly with a rudimentary iPhone app) on the plinth while the stereo is on is about 1/100th of those of my amps that sit on isolating roller blocks on top of a credenza (directly on the suspended wood floor). The eclipse is kind of expensive but you can tell it is intricately constructed by hand. Like I said, the Rega felt mat was fine, just couldn't stand the mat lifting off when flipping a record and decided I didn't like the 2 sided tape I put on the platter to hold the mat down. Just my "little" OCD knowing it was there made me get a new mat, and the stereo does sound better than ever. Hard to know what little change affected it and by what %, but as long as it is improving (as long as the record isn't warped - I catch that when I buy them and return them if they are warped) I am happy (for now). Since everything is now isolated or having vibrations drained, I've taken it as far as it can go, and probably will only make changes when something breaks or the stylus wears out. |
Hey Ralph, I tried turning down my volume all the way when playing a LP. Heard no sound of the cartridge at all. Guess my new mat is doing a great job. I changed from the vinyl Oracle mat you recommended and now have the Oyaide tungsten infused butyl rubber mat. It was less than $200 and seems like it may be similar to the famous Warren Ghel mat. (Copper infused rubber?)
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In the recent past, I have heard the AT 666 Vacuum Mat as a Comparison demonstration to a range of Mats with a Spindle Weight in use. I will say, I was overly impressed with the AT 666 Vacuum Mat in the time I was experiencing it in use, and will hopefully one day have an opportunity to have an extended loan, for it to be used in my own system. From recollection the immediate and most noticeable effect the AT 666 has on the presentation was to create a perception of a Lean Bass Note and a increased projection of the Mid and High Frequencies, to perceive this happening is not strange to myself, it happens when I use a Metal Mat and especially a Tenuto Mat and Spindle Weight. The owner of the AT 666 also has a 5mm Tenuto Mat, so to perceive the AT 666 Bass Notes were quite Lean in comparison was not easy to settle with, as it suggests there is need to match it carefully to a system. This does not put me off the idea of owning one, as I carry out a fair few Platter Mat demonstrations in other systems and the changing environments the mats are demonstrated in always creates mixed results. In the most recent demonstration session, the notes for the day refer to a Zavfino 1mm Leather Mat placed on the Tenuto with Zavfino Weight seemed to get the majority of appraisal, but again the notes from the session, also describe the two differing materials for the AT 677 and AT 600 as being able to present with a impression that is quite attractive as well. When doing comparisons such as above, there is a tendency for the change of presentation to be detected, but not so much the benefits the material is offering overall, time constraints are at work. It is best to live with the materials for a period of time and see how the benefits overall can be detected, In my case during a extended assessment, I will be listening for the micro details being perceived as clear and not with distortion, especially not being perceived smeared. A note or vocal is assessed for having a improved envelope showing the shaping. When these types of influence are detected, this is where I place the real value for the addition of the material. A material change, and detected change to the sonic only does not cut it for myself. When a interface between Platter and Stylus, ' is discovered ', that creates a condition that is showing the Cartridge function is the beneficiary, it is very hard to take on board suggestions that could mean the end result, is that the perceived ideal condition is to be veered away from. My experiences have aligned myself to thinking there is not a ubiquitous answer for all environments, the methods used to mount the TT and the choices made for Mat Materials and Spindle Weight Type, are to needing to be trialed and go through a selection process, to get the benefits that are most preferred and noticeable for being attractive to the end user.
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