I heard the 9H in Southern California a few weeks ago. It was pretty incredible bass. Maybe the best bass I have ever heard. However, the thing did not sound coherent. A incompatible setup for me. I was really bummed at the result since I knew it was not a good setup based on my 3F and 5F demos.
I got the Thiel CS3.7 for my office and have it setup great. Send me PM and I can pass along some things I did that may also work for your NS5000 in your small room.
I am still looking at the NS5000 for my living room along with the KEF Blade2 (maybe with META drivers). I am not sure if I will give the Persona 9H another listen. |
@yyzsantabarbara oh ya Kennedy had it set up nice but they don't always have it there. Call ahead if you are a local. Did you ask the person if he could just turn the bass gain down on the speaker? Maybe they just didn't run arc correctly or maybe they manually raised it because perhaps most people who listen find that impressive and exciting.
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Actually, the 9H has four woofers, opposed (literally) to two in the 7F. It also has completely room corrected bass, a sealed cabinet whereas the 7F is ported, and is dramatically easier to drive. It also plays lower due to the DSP the amp is able to employ on the bass.
As good as the 7F are, the 9H is a dramatic improvement and a steal for even the $10k retail difference. In fact, not only is the 9H not “like having subs,” it’s even less like having subs than most speakers are because the ARC will make the bass response in room far better than most if not all other speakers available (7F included obviously). |
if the 9h were selling for the price of the pair recently posted which was less than the 5f retails for absolutely. Suppose I wait for the 20% sale and the 7f is $20k while the 9h is $28k. The speakers dimensions and drivers are identical so I’m paying $8k for built in powered subs with dsp. Great if I want or need subs otherwise I’m spending money I could put towards motorcycle tires. For music lovers that like subs the 9h is an elegant solution, but I don’t care for subs in my stereo system and the 7f is full range.
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I demoed the 3F, 5F and recently the 9H. The 9H bass was extremely strong but was the worst sounding demo of the 3. I loved the 3F and 5F demos. I think you need to find a good dealer to set it up. I was shocked at how bad the 9H demo I heard. Fatiguing with the bass dominating. Setup must be a bit of a challenge if a dealer can screw it up.
How did the setup at Kennedy HiFi sound? They seem like guys that know how to set it up. |
For you guys going Persona, if you can swing it get the 9H. The 5H and 7F are nice but the 9H with the active woofers and ARC is a massive step up in low end control and power. It is 100% worth the increase in price (assuming you can get a good deal).
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The pathos integrated I like for the 7f is a tube pre with a 100 wpc class a/b amp. Plenty of power and gives the mids some bloom, if thats a proper term?
The 9h listed is very close to what I paid for the 7f and while I got the color I wanted I think I could have found a way to live with the silver front baffle for the difference. |
Like to see a tube pre amp with the Personas. Tames the little bump in the upper mid. Plus a big room really helps. Once dialed though they are a great speaker. |
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Yyzsantabarbara, do you remember which Nad you listened to with the 3f speakers? I've been looking at the newer M33 to pair with my 3f's. Seems to check most boxes for me. Would love to know how it compares to the Anthem str preamp. |
I heard the 9H at a dealer today. I have heard the 5F at another dealer and loved it with SimAudio Moon gear. I heard the 3F with NAD gear at the same dealer and liked it enough to consider buying it (with other electronics). Today the 9H with Mark Levinson was not that great. The bass was incredible, maybe the best I have ever heard in any speaker. I had very high expectations based on the prior 5F demo. I won’t get into the details of what I did not like because I think the setup must have been bad and not reflective of the speakers ability. The 3F and 5F shouldn’t be better sounding than the 9H in an adequate room.
However, after this 9H demo, I have decided that I will get the Blade 2 for my downstairs after COVID is over and the META technology is trickled up from the new LS50 to the Blade. I have heard the Blades a few times and every single time it has been magic for me. It did not matter what gear, I just loved the Blades with all the gear I heard.
I recently bought my second favorite speaker, a used Thiel CS3.7 for my office. I was sure I would get the Yamaha NS5000 for the office but a local sale of a CS3.7 came up and the CS3.7 has always been my second fav speaker, after the Blades. I have refurbished them with new OEM COAX drivers, outriggers, new paint, and maybe a new OEM crossover (to be determined). I also thought the "bookshelf" NS5000 had more bass than the floorstanding CS3.7 and that would be a bad thing in my smallish office. I still think those NS5000 drivers are pretty special maybe better than the great drivers on my Thiel CS3.7.
The A5 was one I was also considering for my downstairs. Mainly because I liked the A3 and S3 MKII and also because it would be harder for my kid to knock down over the Blades (also a reason for considering the 9H). However, next year my kid is a year older and I should be OK with the Blades. |
Bump, OP what’s happening on the loudspeaker search? I think we were discussing on another thread. My dealer told me I needed the 9h for my room, but tbh the 7f do pretty good. If after I complete my circuit. The Blade, A5, and ns5000 still need to be eliminated before I decide. I have found the persona amp combo for me and the price is reasonable. I doubt the other models will reach their potential with the electronics I’ll be feeding them but thats the reality. The best sound I can afford.
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Thanks, the m900u would then be something special with the 9H. I have heard the 509x, while very good, the m900u is at a higher level. |
Yyz m: I heard 9H with the L-505 and 7F with the 509
amazing |
@prof
+1
Although I typically disagree with you, I have to say that AG forum has become AT forum. The scary part is that some people are falling for that. I am not sure why AG is putting up with that.
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@brrgrr Hey where is the photo of what must be a beautiful system?
@contuzzi Do you remember what Luxman model you heard the Persona with? |
Every thread with mention of the Persona's is guaranteed to turn in to multiple pages. Because..well..."audiotroy".....
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Contuzzi, I have a pair in the carbon black on black. Agreed!..Looks and sounds great.
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My understanding is the 9H Is the better option for a smaller room over the 7F. Unless, a preamp with DSP is involved. |
I’ve heard them extensively with the following if it helps;
Audio research (not my top recommendation)
Anthem STR integrated (great)
Anthem STR separates (great)
naim uniti (great)
Micromega (surprisingly great but in different room)
Primaluna (even Prima Luna preamp with anthem amp) (unreal, maybe best, but almost too laid back for some?)
Luxman (wow)
T+A (wow pt2)
Parasound (painfully good value)
Hegel (great!)
that’s all I can think of now.
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While you (AT) are repeating what a great value the 9h is I would like to ask what you would recommend for components to make a complete system and the total cost? Also why no recommendations for the 7f in smaller rooms.? |
Get a pair of carbon black 9H, and you will be immensely happy. Report back if you do. |
The completely blacked out Persona looked great on the 3F. |
@audiotroy I think you are right. Also if I did it, I would get it completely blacked out. Would look amazing.
Wow thats surprising about the polymer speaker. I wouldn't say the contriva g2 is n ight and day better than the persona 9H but definitely a step up... but even that is a meaningless statement as you said since the contriva g2 was connected to WAYYYY better gear and in a way better room.
Any opinion on YG acoustics newer gear like hailey or sonja 2.2 ? |
Smodtactical
You shouldn't worry at all about Beryillium cracking, exploding or anything like that. The only danger is in dealing with Beryillium is in the manufacturing stage. We have changed out the midrange driver and it is totally safe, Beryillium is toxic as a dust or gassous particle or any airborne fragment, that could be inhaled.
A finished Beryillium driver is totally safe, we would not recommend that you eat one but your fears are unfounded.
Also as you are in Canda that is why your pricing is better, pretty sure that part of the costs are higher in the US due to transportation costs and probably US duties and customs fees which may be less with Nafta but most likely they add substantially to the US prices.
Also we wonder if the reason the Contriva G2 sounded better because it was on different gear perhaps?
We has both the Polymer Audio Research a $68k loudspeaker with both Acuton's pure Diamond midrange and tweeters, in a 360 lb all metal enclosure with all silver wiring, and the Polymers didn't sound a lot better than the 9H.
We also listened to a $120k set of Kharma Exquisite Classiques and they were also very good, they weren't better than the Persona 9H either just different.
The only issue we have with our current setup is that we want a bit warmer puncher bass but that may be possible with ARC Genesis.
We haven't retuned our 9H in a while.
We find the marriage of the Persona with the T+A gear which is warm and very liquid with outstanding detail to be a fantastic combination.
You really should just get a pair there is nothing which can really better them for this kind of money.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Persona dealers
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@audiotroy Honestly the 9H is an incredible value (especially for dealer prices I am getting). I would say they offer up a lot of the detail and imaging that I heard on the far more expensive Contriva G2 (although the CG2 was definitely superior). The only thing that stops me from jumping on them is my lack of comfort with beryllium. I know its not necessarily toxic as a driver but I always have a fear of the driver cracking and spraying be atoms everywhere. If I spend car money on a speaker I just don't want to ever think about something like that.
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It's almost 2:30 here in Portugal, and I just finished a 4-hour listening session. Are my ears bleeding? ... not even a little!
I listened to a variety of musical genres. Alternative rock (Fink, Shearwater), world music (Dead Can Dance), jazz (Mina Agossi, Cecile McLorin), classic (Berlioz), etc.
These speakers can play anything with ease.
Now I go to bed with a smile on my face. |
Smodtactical, we have the Kef Blades which are very good not as transparent and do not throw as focused a soundstage but they sound bigger with a more rounded deeper bass.
The Vimbergs sounded amazing at Axpona, it would be hard to tell if they sound better per say, they seem like they sound similar to the Personas with a richer overall but still highly detailed presentation, nor do they have as deep of a bass response but overall they were fantastic sounding and on our list as one of the standouts at that show.
We do like Rockport speakers but haven’t heard them in a while, don’t believe that would image as holographically and the transparency in the midrange isn’t as good as the Personas, but overall a great speaker company.
Also at Axpona the Wilson DAW were sounding really good.
Those would be our recommendations.
As per Mike it is doubtful he ever had a pair in his shop, if he did a quick drop and plop without due dilligence in setup he would probably not like them.
Also Mike pushes the hell out of Magico so why would he want to bring in a direct competitor that looks prettier, is more efficient, images with more holography, and in the case of the Persona 9H offers better bass in any size room with the built in subwoofers with Anthem Room Correction.
We are willing to bet he never had a pair in his shop and based his dislike on hearing them elsewhere. A dealer would be able to answer which amplifer and setups he used.
Food for thought.
As you are a Canadidan the Personas shoud be way less expensive in Canada for you. If you factor that vs the greater cost of many competitors you should strongly consider the 9H personally we think that if you invest in good electronics, source and cabling you will get fantastic results with the 9H.
When they are setup correctly they are smooth, image incrediibly well, have very tight bass and have incredible resolution.
Personally our setup of the T+A electronics, Aqua Hifi dac, Innous Statement plus good power conditioning and cabling is one pretty amazing system if you are in the East Coast of the United States you should come over and hear our demo system it is pretty amazing.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Persona dealers
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Man you guys are making me want the 9H!
@audiotroy What other speaker have you heard do you think could compete with the 9H in the same price category?
Ya Mike is a bit weird. Every time you ask him what electronics he used for the 9H he doesn't say anything.
@ricred1 What brands and models did the dealer prefer?
How does Kef blade and ref 5 compare to 9H ? |
@prof As someone who has owned Bryston in the past for about 15 years. Bryston would not be in my 10 ten electronics to use with Persona’s. I recently heard Bryston 4B3 and BP17 cubed with Vandersteen Treo CT and even that combo was not to my liking. Maybe I am getting soft in my old age. I attributed my dislike to the Bryston gear. Just did not like that pairing.
I have heard Bryston sound good with other speakers, like my old Revel Salon 1 + Bryston 7BSST
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A question to Persona 9H owners. I have a room that is 12'W x 21'L x 25'H The short wall is actually 17' wide at the entrance but there is a mostly straight staircase that quickly takes away 5' of space on the right side of the room. So that is why I am stating only 12' wide. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/7959 (photos) 1) Minimum distance required between speakers if placed on the short wall near the entrance? 2) Minimum distance from the front wall? 3) Would the staircase be an issue in terms of reflection? 4) I am assuming that the side wall distance can to resolved via toe-in. The closer to the side wall the more toe-in. I will not acoustically treat this room. I am asking this now so I can prepare the wife for the future big news. BTW - my kid will share this room with a pair of speakers and 1 integrated amp w/DAC and 1 chair for me. |
Ricredi which dealer and what speakers and how were they setup? Compare how we run our Persona 9H and the equipment we use them with: https://www.facebook.com/audiodoctor1/photos/a.1114621131944432/2414413985298467/?type=3&theaterYou will notice T+A electronics, a Critical Mass Rack, Acoustical Treatment, power conditioning, no other speakers in line, high end cabling, Isoacoustic footers. Not shown: State of the art digital: T+A PDP 3000, Light Harmonic Davinci, Aqua Hifi Formula XHD, Innous server. One dealer in another state was showcasing a $17 pair of Persona 5F in a room with many pairs of speakers on all three walls, no room treatment, and the best electronics were a few $3k Musical Fidelity pieces and an Anthem STR intergrated. Another dealer we visted had three Personas all crammed together on the back wall with many other speakers on top their best electronics an Nad preamp with a Parasound amplifier. Compare our sound room where we demo the Persona 3F https://www.facebook.com/audiodoctor1/photos/a.122499441156611/1884269391646265/?type=3&theaterElectronics from $1k Rega, Peachtree, Nad, to $30k Naim stack. Intergrated amplfiers: Naim, Sythesis, Unsion Research, Krell, Micromega, Cables from $3,400.00 for speaker cables, power conditioning. etc. Part of this issue is dealers showrooms and not having the care and matching equipment to showcase the Persona to their utmost. They sound fantastic on warmer electronics: Krell, Naim, Micromega they are not going to sound fanatastic on brighter or leaner electronics. Please understand we are not trying to say we are better and any other dealers are not good, the issue is how well are some of these dealers setting up their Personas? Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
I listened again to the Personas today - 3F. (Bryston amplification)
Also the B&W 803D3.
I found myself underwhelmed. The B&Ws sounded more refined (even if they too have a sculpted frequency response), the Persona's sounded somewhat opaque to me, and even though the B&W's upper frequencies actually sounded a bit hotter, I actually found myself getting fatigued faster with the Personas high end. I found the same when I did a longer audition last year. I guess I just don't care for those speakers. And they sure didn't sound a competitive as I'd hoped with even the B&Ws. (And I'm not even much of a fan of the B&W sound at all!).
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Audiotroy,
"The reality is that the Personas are a total challenger to any of the $60k-100k uber boutique brands such as Rockport, Magico or Wilson." That's your opinion and your reality. I've heard them and just don't agree. They sound good to my ears, but seriously. As a matter of fact, one of the Paradigm dealer's that I went to prefers several speakers in the same price range over the 7Fs and 9Hs.
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Again have to agree with Contuzzi, Mr. Boviard, is a rather brilliant businessman who started his own forum which he is the owner and head moderator.
Sure anyone can post but in most cases the discord is hardly unbiased.
We answered a post about the Personas and of course were quickly shot down with the same post as Magico is way better etc, too bright same stuff.
The reality is that the Personas are a total challenger to any of the $60k-100k uber boutique brands such as Rockport, Magico or Wilson.
We demoed a $120k pair of Kharmas with a Diamond tweeter, custom kevlar midrange and a 12 inch Eaton midrange the speakers weighed about 400 pounds they sounded good but in no way was a superior sound to the Persona 9H at 1/4 the price.
Also have to agree with Yysantabarbera, the Persona will sound good or bad depending on the electronics which you pair them with.
We have heard different Persona models at stores in CA, at two different stores in MA, a store in NJ, and most of the demos were hardly convincing in demonstrating just how remarkable the speakers can sound, none of the demos the speakers sounded bad but none of the demos were wow demos either.
This is a very high resolution line of loudspeakers and the tweeter and midrange drivers do not hold anything back.
When we were seaching for electronics for them we tried: Conrad Johnson and Manly Labs Tube amplifiers, Electrcompaniet, Chord, Devialet, Thrax and finally T+A before the speakers really started to sound amazing.
The Persona 9h can reward you will breathtaking realisim at a price far below their competion or they can sound bright, flat and uninvolving.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Persona dealers
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That doesn’t mean that we should take his unprovoked bashing about Personas seriously. |
See various other threads for extremely positive things being said about Suncoast Audio. |
BTW - the 2nd dealer I went to visit for the 3F had the system setup with a $10K+ integrated I believe. I won’t mention what brand itwas because I do not remember exactly what the model was. However, I told the dealer it did not sound too good and the dealer then replaced the integrated with the much cheaper NAD m22 amp and m12 pre/dac and it was way better. Not the best gear but great for the cost.
I can see people still disliking the Persona for it's sonic attributes even with the proper gear match. I would think a Vandersteen or Harbeth fan would not like the Persona. Though I like all 3.
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Who is this is Mike Bovaird we are mentioning here?
I like the Persona line and when I heard them, the 3F and 5F at 2 separate dealers, they sounded poor (1 was cringe worthy). So why did I decide to get the 3F and now changing my mind to the 9H? Well I had to make the dealer switch electronics to something I thought was a better match for my ears, though not ideal (such as replace the Macintosh). These changes made the systems sound much better. So much so that one dealer said to me, that it was the best he had heard them. That was a little shocking when an audio nob like me can make HIS products sound better with HIS gear. It made me think this dealer did not care too much about the line.
So when I read these comments about a bad dealer match with the electronics and the Persona I can relate that to what I experienced.
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"Mike likes to go out of his way to attack them. Definitely business related."
Some of the people on here suggests the 9H are the best thing since sliced bread and if you don't like them, either you heard them with the wrong equipment and/or room, you're hearing is just bad, or you have an agenda against Paradigm. What are their interest? I submit that everyone that's a dealer or in the audio industry should have to identify themselves as such.
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Mike likes to go out of his way to attack them. Definitely business related. |
Just want to add that I totally agree the 9H bass is amazing. When I heard them, it was in a very large, about 30 foot by 30 foot by 12 foot room and I was in a corner of the room.. it was by no means ideal yet the bass sounded tight, fast, rich and detailed. 9H is super impressive.
Mike Bovaird keeps saying it makes his ears bleed, but thats not my experience at all. I find it has a very detailed yet still smooth intoxicating sound. I wonder what electronics he used.
If I had to choose, I would probably pick a 9H over a Magico M2 just because the sound is nearly as good overall and has better bass and I can save well over 20 grand. |
So it looks like the link I posted above for the 9H was from Audio Doctor's NY Show room. I just did a web search for "Persona 9H and room size" and that photo came up. Every time I climb the stairs of my home I see the big narrow empty space currently functioning as my toddlers play area. I have tried to figure out what speakers would fit in there, specifically seeing if the KEF Blades would work along the short wall. Unfortunately, some comments I read here, including by Audio Doctor, indicate that the sound would be compromised along the short wall. Sad times for this potential Blade buyer. The long wall setup is a no go (family wise). However, today I learned after an email discussion with both the management of Vivid Audio and the profession sound technician that acoustically treated my upstairs office room, that the Vivid Kaya 45 will work in my room. The Vivid guys did not say for sure that it work but the sound tech and I
deciphered the comments on the speakers dispersion pattern to figure out that it would work.
To me, the Kaya 90 (which I heard) actually sounds a bit like the KEF Blade. I did like the Kaya 90 a bit more than the KEF Blade-ish KEF Reference 5 which was surprising. I am targeting the smaller Kaya 45 which has less bass.
https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/equipment-menu/865-vivid-audio-kaya-45-loudspeakers
Why mention this? Well I like the Persona 3F and the Kaya 45 EQUALLY.
However, I did not want to get a Persona 9H for my downstairs space if I got a Persona 3F for the small room upstairs. So in the past, I have not seriously considered the 9H. Now I have a great sounding option for both rooms. Audio Doctor you will get a call from me on the Persona 9H. No dealer around me area that demos this one and likely knows it as well as you. Need some patience though. |
Contuzzi, have to agree with you here. Especially in terms of bass response in adverse rooms you are right on the money! Audio Doctor showcased the Persona 9H at the New York audio show in 2016 right after they came out. This was one of the first public showings of the speakers. We were not in a ball room or a giant demo room just a regularly sized hotel room, the entire room from side to side was probably about 14 feet wide with the length of the room perhaps being 16-18 feet. We had the speakers very close to the side walls, toed in signficantly with three rows of seating. The speakers were setup on the long wall. The local rep and Paradigms sales manager ran the Anthem Room correction in multiple locations. The dip in the bass response was dramatic from the before no room correction vs the post room correction plot. The ARC function allowed the bass to be deep and tight and not to over load such a small room. The sound for a big system in a small room was breathtaking and was a perfect example to showcase how much a difference that the Anthem Room Correction software was creating a listenable tight tuneful bass reponse in a room that should have been boomy and bloated with a bass response that would dominate over the high and mids. https://hometheaterhifi.com/features/show-reports-film-festivals-concerts/new-york-audio-show-2016/https://www.facebook.com/audiodoctor1/photos/pcb.1322387171167826/1322378621168681/?type=3&theat...Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ Persona dealers |
There will be several people who have likely nevermind heard the personas, our dealers who don’t carry paradigm and want to down talk them... but there is literally no speaker on the market that will achieve such high performance TRULY FULL RANGE sound in a small to medium sized room like the 9H.
I now have two more friends who have gotten 9H’s and their rooms are both polar opposites. One is huge with a two story vaulted ceiling, one is a basement with 7ft ceilings. In both rooms the bass is astonishing. Extremely lean and tight, almost spookishly so. The skin on drums, etc is just so organic it’s just incredible.
And the best part is you get to start with lightning fast lean bass, yet if you want more, you can just raise the room gain a tiny bit and get a little more of the outstandingly flat non boomy room corrected bass. I think the fact that the speakers have FOUR 8” woofers that are all quite a bit apart helps couple them to the room differently (as is the reason multiple subs are key) and you end up with super flat bass response even without the correction. The ARC just takes things to a completely different level.
Can not recommend them enough. |
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The TAD ME1 is not as detailed as the 3F but rather close in that department. The ME1 maybe better for longer listening sessions. I know with the Luxman system + TAD ME1 demo I was totally satisfied with the sound and wanted to listen all day. I like the TAD ME1 more than the Magico A3 that I liked a lot at one point.
My assumption is that the 3F will have a bit more bass and can play in a small room. I will home demo this with the Luxman amp to see if that is true in my room. I also think that the coherence of the tweeter and mid on the 3F is a little better (one voice). A lot of folks have said to me that I would not like the 3F for long term listening sessions, I think they are wrong and my home demo will clear this up. A lot of folks like a softer top end and not like Persona’s, I am not one of them.
I want to make the 3F work in my small office because I want a floor stander but the ME1 is great and I can live with that speaker if the 3F will not work. I decided I did not want to introduce DSP into my sound chain so I only am relying on acoustic treatments. I went the non-DSP route after I fell for the all Luxman system demo. So I am buying electronics before the speaker. Maybe the Mola Mola pre/dac to lessen the component count.
That $15k - $10K - $15K oscillation in the TAD ME1 price was rather disappointing, I now feel a bit like you are getting less speaker for the price. The Persona 3F price seems to me like you get more for the price compared to some other floor standers I have demoed.
Main issue is my room. |
Contuzzi, their is no doubt in our minds that the Persona 3f is the better value, for one brief shining momment the Me1 was lowered to $10k at that price the speaker was a great deal.
We have heard the Me 1 sounding very good, with a slightly richer midrange response than the 3F. They still sound more like a monitor on a stand and for $5k less the 3F is just so hard to beat, for $5k you can get yourself a great dac or be half way to a great sounding intergrated amplifier.
We do think that the ME 1 for a person with a very small room who wants a stand mounted speaker is one of the best of its kinds.
The reality as we see it is that if you dial in the 3f it is one remarkable loudspeaker that sounds more like a $20k loudspeaker than a $10k one.
We setup our Persona 3F on a setup of Naim Separates for $13k with the Paradigm SW 1000 a compact subwoofer from Paradigm and the sound was just remarkable and the entire system was more affordable then many reference systems we have heard that were two to three times the price.
The way we see it is that the 3f if used with the right combination of gear does so many things extremely well: a huge soundstage, great image float, superb detail, very tight deep bass response for its price point it is very hard to beat.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Persona dealers
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I’d take the 3F over the TAD ME1 any day of the week. Local dealer had TAD and I think he got rid of them quickly for a reason. Wasn’t impressed at all. Nor was I impressed at Axpona. |
@yyzsantabarbara what do you like more between 3f vs me1 ? |
