Depends on your budget and what sound characteristics you’re looking for.
Perfect match for ATC speakers
Hi,
I'm upgrading my audio setup and have decided to go for ATC SCM 11, and now have to choose the amp.
Any recommendation for these speakers?
Thanks,
I'm upgrading my audio setup and have decided to go for ATC SCM 11, and now have to choose the amp.
Any recommendation for these speakers?
Thanks,
29 responses Add your response
Well, not to be discouraging, but to be informative: you've done the opposite of what I advise: try first to find efficient speakers you love, using sensitivity of 90 db as a starting goal. you bought very inefficient speakers, low sensitivity. Sensitivity: 85dB @ 1W @ 1metre LOW sensitivity Speakers need HIGH Powered Amps. That increases the cost, size, weight, heat of required amps. All that reduces placement options. All that makes it harder to try Tubes in the future. What size space, and what volumes will you be wanting? If you can, I suggest you return them. If not: also consider this: Their specs appear to be honest regarding their limited ability to produce bass: Frequency Response (-6dB): 56Hz-22kHz Due to both limiting factors: start with the idea of eventually using a single or pair of self-powered sub(s). And, make sure your preamp or integrated amp has PRE-OUT. You want to send the bass signals out to another amp, so your primary amp only needs to amplify upper bass, mids, and highs. It can then be lower power, and the speakers will sound better not trying to make low bass. Raven says low bass is 65% of the power needs. " High-Pass Crossover This addition to the Avian series provides an extraordinary advantage when using a subwoofer. It frees the power amp from 65% of the load it normally has to bear. This is like tripling the power of the amplifier in terms of its ability to drive speakers. It also frees smaller speakers from reproducing low bass frequencies that they really don’t reproduce very well which lowers overall distortion. This is all achieved with a gentle 6db per octave slope making it easy to achieve a seamless transition with a good quality subwoofer." https://www.ravenaudio.com/product/blackhawk-mk3/ Your Speaker's Full Specs: Drivers: HF ATC 25mm Neodymium soft dome, Mid/LF ATC 150mm CLD Matched Response: ±0.5dB Frequency Response (-6dB): 56Hz-22kHz Dispersion: ±80° Coherent Horizontal, ±10° Coherent Vertical Sensitivity: 85dB @ 1W @ 1metre Max SPL: 108dB Recommended Power Amplifier: 75 to 300 Watts Nominal Impedance: 8 Ohm Crossover Frequency: 2.2kHz Connectors: Binding Posts/4mm Plugs, bi-wire Cabinet Dimensions (HxWxD): 381 x 232 x 236mm / 15.00 x 9.21 x 8.46″ (grill adds 28mm depth) Weight: 10.9kg .............................................................. |
@soix ’s comment is on point that been said, i would add that in my experience atc’s are very demanding of amps in terms of power as well as tonality - atc’s are ruthlessly revealing and hard to drive (quite inefficient)... their lower tier speakers present an irony in that the speakers may be $1500-2000 a pair but to make them sound really good you need double, triple that in quality of amp to handle think ultra high grade high power solid state (which can be mucho $$$) |
"you’ve done the opposite of what I advise: try first to find efficient speakers you love, using sensitivity of 90 db as a starting goal." That above statement is BS. Those ATC speakers are outstanding. If you buy a speaker just because of its high efficiency rating you will end up something you most likely won’t like. Are you looking for a separate amp or an integrated ? What is your budget? BTW, my friend has the ATC SCM7 and uses a 60 watt solid state amp with no problem! |
yogiboy "you’ve done the opposite of what I advise: try first to find efficient speakers you love, using sensitivity of 90 db as a starting goal." "That above statement is BS." I think you meant to say that advice is BS. KEF's are loved by many, that doesn't change my advice: TRY to find a more efficient speaker you love as much! |
If you like ATC, try their active... perfect match amplification! http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/professional/loudspeakers/scm20asl-pro/ |
ATCs are great speakers. It’s true that you need a powerful amp to drive them, but don’t be discouraged. There are a variety of brands that match up well, mostly because they can bring a little warmth or musicality to the very clear, transparent sound of the Atc‘s. It all depends on what you like. Some ears are partial to a monitor and some prefer a sound that has been colored.The sensitivity issue is one that’s on the minds of certain posters here, but is by no means a universal approach to component choice. Personally, I think that getting the speaker you like and then finding an amp to match is a better way to go versus pick one based on sensitivity or price or reputation or anything else. As far as specific amp brands go, one approach is to use another British company like musical fidelity. Another is to just go look in the amp reviews on Google and you’ll start noticing certain ones that come up over and over such as Hegel. If you end up spending a disproportionate amount on the amp versus the speakers, who cares as long as it sounds good to you. |
Because of this impedance/-phase angle measurement they don’t need a brute amp that can supply heaps of current. https://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/1209ATCfig1.jpg But they do need something>120w @ 8ohm because they are measured at only 82db efficiency. Having what most call a neutral-cool sound, which is born out in the ATC SCM-11 Stereophile review also. " ATC to have a slight amount of extra energy in the upper midrange and lower treble" I suggest a using a good solid state amp that has quite a good bit of Class-A bias (runs hot at idle) for a sweeter, yet still detailed sound to counter the cooler reputation of the SC11 speaker. Looking at your previous posts you mention Hegel H95 $2,5K and the H190 at $5k. The amp I would recommend if you can find it is a used Gryphon Diablo120. or similar with these ATC’s https://gryphon-audio.dk/shop/integrated-amplifiers/diablo-120/ Cheers George |
Having used/heard almost all the ATC speakers with various amps, it is one of the most authentic sounding speakers in the world. Hence it is worth going the extra mile to give it what it needs. SCM 11 is one of their easiest to drive speakers. You didn't mention your budget, but here are some obvious choices at various price points Value for money Naim Nait 5si - Don't go by their 50 watts rating, they rock hard and don't clip easily Nice and easyATC SIA-150 integrated amp - straightforward match and good sound TubeRogue Stereo 100 with a good neutral preamp - More expensive but more interesting sounding too |
I listen to the same kinds of music as you. I auditioned the SCM 7, 11 and 19, preferring the 19. I auditioned them at a reputable dealer with Linn and Simaudio electronics and found them both a good match, with the Simaudio smoother than the Linn. (I apologize for the subjective adjective, but it is all subjective based on your preferences, your room, etc.) Put me in the camp with those who suggest you should stick with the speaker you like and match the electronics. Did you audition the SCM 11 at a dealer? If so, what electronics was the dealer using? In any event given your listening distance of 10’, unless you listen at extremely high volume, I would not be overly worried about amplifier power. The manufacturer recommends 75 to 300 watts per channel at 8 ohms. @pani made some good recommendations. I own one of them, the Rogue Stereo 100 paired with Totem Acoustic Sky Towers, an 88dB sensitivity speaker, which are also on the highly revealing side, and find the Rogue, while relatively neutral, particularly for a tube amp, matched better with my speakers than several solid state products. And I listen in triode mode, 60 watts per channel, at about the same listening distance of 10’. No problem driving my speakers to deliver 85 dB volume where I sit, about as loud as I’ll go. If possible find dealers for several of the brands that have been recommended and see if they will provide loaners you can take home and hook up to the speakers. Spend a week-end or more listening to some of your favorite music using 2 or 3 loaner amps and zero in on the one that sounds best. Note that almost all of the brands that have been recommended make integrated amps at 75 watts/channel or more. I would err on the side of more power, as that will help with transient response on large classical orchestral works. |
I had an ATC power amp the P1 to drive my harbeth (similar spec to atc) and they are unsung heroes..... The sia 150 mentioned would suit really well. And don't go on first few song impressions as this combo is good for hours of sweet listening. I sold all my gear when I went to big tannoys with 96db and bought a luxman A class with 20w.... Very different sound. But wish I'd keps that ATC as backup |
I have had ATC speakers for 18 years. The Entry Level speaker line (can ATC market their products any worse?) are different animals than the ruthlessly revealing SCM 20’s with their 80 db efficiency, and are a bit less stark on the top. First thing I would say is that you have bought superb speakers. They are not a difficult load to drive-their impedance does not vary wildly. Being an acoustic suspension design, you don’t have to listen to bass chugging out of a port. You don’t have to listen to cupped hands hoodiness out of horn drivers (I sold Klipsch back in the day). Some of the advice here is crap. I drive my second generation SCM 7’s with a 60 watt Adcom GFA 535 II amp I bought off EBay for $100. It drives them to ear watering levels and they sound wonderful. Paired with a Schiit Saga preamp, this shows you don’t need fancy electronics to drive them. I have driven my ATC SCM 35’s with a 75 watt tube C-J amp, a rebuilt 200 watt GAS Ampzilla amp, or a 200 watt SST Son of Ampzilla II amp, always with a tube preamp (Cary SLP 05 with ultimate upgrade now). They sound sublime; your tweeter is smoother than that of the SCM35, as they replaced the tweeters in the Entry line with an in-house model that is not as hard sounding with poor material. Solid state amps with big damping factors give better control, and sound best overall. I would recommend using a tube preamp with a solid state amp of 100 watts a channel or so. A Schiit Freya+ paired with a Schiit Vidar would be perfect and wouldn’t break the bank. But please keep your speakers!!! |
Have a look at Van Alstine. They may have what you need. Few months ago I bought a used Synergy 450 (225 wpc @ 8 ohms) directly from the AVA website to use with my EgglestonWorks Fontaine Signatures (legacy now per EW website) and am enjoying it greatly. It has transformed my listening volume to a lower level because it’s all there - dynamics, detail, space between instruments, full and robust. |
But they do need something>120w @ 8ohm because they are measured at only 82db efficiency. George, once again a pile of uninformed BS. Please stick to what you know( (as opposed to what you think you know) I own a pair of ATC SCM11s which I am listening to right now powered by a pair of these: https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/exposure-3010s2-mono-power-amplifierSteroephile Editor’s choice recommendation - they are a dream team made in heaven and can absolutely rock it it out if need be: nb see Martin Colloms measurements.esp into low impedance loads. You can look them up, I am too tired to bother. t‘s all a about quality, rather than quantity. |
BTW, this thread is a perfect example of why I steer folks away from the forums. The odds are very high that you'll end up acting on really bad misinformation; typical of the internet in general. In this case from folks that haven't heard the speakers, have only heard an ancient model (ATC has been around since 1974), have heard a pair in less than optimum conditions or folks recommending amplifiers that they haven't tried with ATC speakers. With that said, I have heard multiple ATC/amp combinations. Your best bet, as mentioned by several experienced posters above, would be the ATC P1 amplifier (retail $3749). The CDA2mk11/P1/SCM40 combo won best of show at the 2019 AZ Audio Video Club speaker fest against some stiff, in most cases much more expensive competition. For greatest value and a very simple, clean system choose the ATC SIA2-100 integrated (retail $3999) with similar but lower power than the P1 and excellent built-in DAC. This is a very popular paring with the SCM11. Connect a quality streamer like the Roon Nucleus, subscribe to Qobuz and Bob's your uncle. I've heard this combo with both the SCM11 and SCM19 passives; outstanding in each case. I also agree with a poster that the ultimate ATC experience is with their active models. But we just mention that as an aside since you already have purchased the excellent SCM11 speakers. You have an outstanding, for life speaker. Continue to use your ears and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. |
Believe me Exposure 3012 monos or even my Farlowe generation IV dual regulated will make absolutely beautiful music with the SCM11s, and have done so for me for the last five years. .There is a synergy between Exposure and ATC which accolades such as yourself ay not be aware. This is despite having an ARC REF160 at my disposal. |
Agree with your views on ATC actives. However, I will have to leverage my interests in international arms and narcotics dealing before I can actually obtain a pair. Possibly one reason Exposures pair so well with SCM11s is that they really nail PRAT, which is where ATCs excel. Also both these amps eat low impedance loads for breakfast. |
