Parasound vs Coda

Dear @graafz   : 20.6?

rauliruegas@hotmail.com

Keep in touch.

R.

@yyzsantabarbara Yeah, I traded my old amp for the No 8.  I'm using it with a Linear Tube Audio MicroZOTL preamp.  I like a tube preamp with a solid state amp.  Works well for me. 

@sls883 I thought the article on the 11 was very interesting. I enjoyed reading a lot of Jeff Fritz's articles.

I am assuming you traded in your old amp for the #8

@yyzsantabarbara I didn't have an 11. I had their entry level amp. 

@sls883 Everyone that I have spoken with about CODA and Doug have nothing but positive comments. I worked with him to resolve an issue with my now sold CODA 07x preamp. I purchased a new 07x when it came out a few years ago. He eventually rebuilt the entire assembly with new parts except the old case. I appreciated the effort he undertook, and it resolved the gremlins.

I also had an almost current version of the CSiB integrated amp and the 07x and #8. They were all very good but not that much different. The #16 is different and much better. I love the #16 with my Benchmark LA4 and Holo Audio Serene preamps. Same with the CODA #8 and these 2 preamps.

You should read the very interesting take on the CODA amps by Jeff Fritz of SoundStageUltra.com. He no longer writes for them but a few years ago he had a series of articles about getting a reference system for a fixed price point. His comment on the CODA #11 really surprised and enlightened me.

Finally, my list must include some model of vintage amplifier. For a couple months now I’ve been using a Coda Technologies Model 11, and I’ve been so satisfied -- no, thrilled -- with its performance that I’ve found myself asking: How much better can it get? I’ve paraded expensive amplifiers through the Music Vault for many years, and now, with this 20-something-year-old amp, I’m not missing any of them? What gives? The whole experience has got me thinking about other vintage amps, perhaps with a couple grand invested for new capacitors and a thorough tune-up.

Jeff’s Getting a New Stereo System: Part Five

Jeff’s Getting a New Stereo System: Part Three

CODA 11 Power Amplifier. 100 WPC Precision Bias Class A For Sale - US Audio Mart

Just an FYI to anyone else.

Doug is building me a front panel for a cosmetic issue on my #16. After I replace my current panel with new panel, I may sell my #16. I am thinking of using my used $450 Schitt Aegir v1 20-watt Class A amp to drive a new speaker a friend is building. It only needs about 5 watts of power and it is not cheap so a sale of the #16 maybe needed.

Doug told me the super powerful #16 will not blow up the new speaker but I have concerns.

@yyzsantabarbara  I traded my old Coda Continuum in to Doug Dale at Coda. The capacitors were starting to go.  He offered to repair it for a reasonable price, or I could trade it in.  He wasn't pushy about trading up like another manufacturer that I know.  He did say that the 8 would be better than my old amp if I decided to repair it. It was around 25 years old. Great guy. 

For my system and speakers, he recommended the No 8, V1.  The 16 was beyond what I wanted to spend.  I gotta stop somewhere.  lol. 

You can get a used #16 around $9k and used #8 for less than $5k. 

@yyzsantabarbara I suppose the 16 is better than the 8.  For $10,700 more, it should be. I think most people, including myself, could be happy with an 8. In it's price range, I think it's an excellent value. 

You don't have a long way to learn about tubes. Aquire a tube amp soon and save yourself time. You will either pursue that amplification on or not. Go big with the Focals or think about a speaker change.

The CODA #16 is a lot better than the #8. More detail, more power, beautiful Class A sound. I had the #8 v1 and now have the #16.

I love the #16 but I am tempted by the SimAudio 761, which sounds a lot different. I may just wait for upgraditis from 761 owners and pick up a used 761 so I keep the #16.

I've had both, #16 and JC5. for me and my salon 2's the difference was well noted. Cleaner and clearer sound with much better bass. Very pleased with the Coda #16.

Not exactly an answer to your specific comparison question, but I owned the Focal Sopra 2's for a few years and used it with Bob Carver Raven M350 tube mono blocks. These amps put out 350 WPC and to me was a very good match for the Focal's. 

ozzy

@reg19 Thank you for the feedback, that's really helpful. I have been on the lookout for JC1+ for sale but interestingly, haven't seen many as of late. Coda is still high on my list too.

I also agree with the power cord note, I upgraded the stock JC5 cord and it made a difference. The biggest difference however was adding multiple dedicated 20amp circuits, it was pretty stunning honestly.

@christianb5s4 JC1+ is bigger, fuller, faster sound with better bass.
My speakers are the Maestro Utopia III. The X260.8 are sort of sufficient for Jazz. However, if you want to listen to classical, you need JC1+ with these speakers - or spend $30k more for something more substantial - perhaps Gryphon monos - whatever they cost.

I also like the low gain (23dB) option in the JC1+. I use it in low gain, high bias mode paired with a nice tube preamp.

One note with the JC1+ - they need good power cords. With Pass Labs or with McIntosh, I did not need anything more than stock cords (or, at least, the difference between stock and premium cords was minimal). With JC1+, stock cords give me a bit of a digital, 2D sound. Using AQ Hurricanes, I get a very musical, ‘organic’ presentation with a lot of depth - just the way I like it.

Admittedly, I am a Coda fanboy.  I currently own Boulder 2050, Krell KAS and listen to Gryphon Solos (sold Pass XS 300 and ML 33H).  I will not part with my Coda "class A" amp.  Doug Dale has always been great to work with, like Pass, top notch customer service.

Jose.

Destination HiFi is about an hour from me, so it's definitely worth a drive up there if I can make time.

@reg19 If you have a minute, curious about what you liked on the JC1+ over the other reputable options you tried? 

I got my new CODA #8 from Destination HiFi. An excellent dealer.

I have tried Coda no 16 in my setup. The JC1+ were a much better match for my Focal speakers. They also were a better match than my X260.8 Pass monos.

@helomech Thanks for the explanation, Destination Hifi is not far so I plan to go up for a demo. They're the closest Coda dealer by far.

@yyzsantabarbara I did not, I was over optimistic on how much time I had this past weekend. A weakness of mine.

@christianb5s4 Did you get to listen to the KRELL Duo 300XD?

I have to agree with the post above regarding Parasound and CODA. Though I only had the A21+.  The A21+ is good for the price, the A23 I had was not so good, even for the price.

@christianb5s4 

The Coda has greater resolution, a wider soundstage, and better instrument separation. Also, it’s more refined and has greater decay as mentioned earlier. 

FWIW, the JC5 is merely an A21+ with a slightly altered bias and better quality parts. Both the JC5 and A21+ measure worse than the original THX-rated A21, and it’s definitely audible in real world use. The newer Parasound Halo amps are a regression in performance despite the claims of the spec sheets. 
 

@helomech If you recall, what did you like more about Coda over Parasound besides being quieter? 

I have the Coda No.8 V1. It’s much better sounding than the Parasound amps I’ve tried. The Coda sounds similar to the Pass XA25 but with way more grunt. It’s also much quieter than any Parasound amp. 

I’ve ran my No.8 with the Topping A90D and Mac C49 preamps. The latter is warmer, with greater punch, while the former is higher in resolution and more neutrally balanced. The Topping performs similarly to the Benchmark LA4 but with a hint of added warmth. One area the Coda excels in when paired with the Topping is “decay.” It produces better instrument decay than many tube amps IME. 

Suffice to say the No.8 is the best amplifier I’ve owned and likely my last. 
 

@1extreme

+1. I love those meters and the look. About once every five years I have gone in to buy a Mac component, sat down and listened to it for thirty seconds and gave up. The sound quality is not what I am looking for… they are like muscle cars and I like performance cars… well, if I was into cars.

@ghdprentice 

There's definitely something about those blue Mcintosh meters that doctors just love.

@mbmi 

That is very definitely true for some folks. Definitely worth a listen. But for many their sound quality is not for us. 

Do not pass go....but go to your nearest McIntosh dealer and get the best model that you can afford and never look back !

I found the Trafomatic on the used market after the brand was recommended to me by a dealer I trust and who I’ve purchased Innuos products from.   This is the model but I don’t believe it’s still produced:

https://soundfactor.fi/trafomatic-audio-reference-line-one

It fit at the time between the Evolution and Lara preamps. 

That's a really cool brand, will dig in on it more. So many options.

To the point on multiple inputs on the amp side, the JC5 has that too. Good idea on attaching two pres and trying both.

@sworksone Where did you hear the Trafomatic preamp. Is your model listed on this website?

Preamplifiers - Trafomatic Audio

I think I like the LA4 and CODA #16 (or #8) combo the best. Though I only gave the Serene a short workout with the #16. The LA4 also works better with the #16 because it is so small, and I can hide away from the amp.

I have been thinking about of adding a tube preamp into the RCA inputs of my CODA #16, which has a nice switch on the front of the amp to flip between RCA and XLR inputs. So, 2 preamps hooked up at the same time are easy to manage.

I am going to check out the Trafomatic Reference Line One tube pre.

I run a Coda no8 with a Trafomatic Reference Line One tube pre and the sound is sublime.  I recently tried with the Holo Serene (which I preferred over a Benchmark LA4 with the Coda) but it didn’t have the same magic without the tubes.  I also was a bit surprised that I don’t seem to be missing much if any detail with the Trafomatic/Coda combo versus with the Serene in the chain.  

Ive owned both the jc5 and the coda 16 - i liked the coda better. 100 watts of class A goodness. Wonderful mids. And the thing is ULTRA quiet.

OP… “granted the XP12/22/32s are universally considered improvements over the prior generation”. Yes, exactly.

I used to own one. I would describe them as a bit thin, not natural and musical. They are good technically but lack warmth and soul. Somewhere in there I think I got it.

I've definitely seen several members with experience from Pass preamps that they aren't the most exciting or lively compared to others, granted the XP12/22/32s are universally considered improvements over the prior generation.

I think I'm going to scan for the aforementioned pre options if any pop up for a good price, worst case would break even by selling if it's not a fit. Plus most are not nearly as pricey as the amp options.

Coda(16) and Aric Audio(Motherlode) is a match that I have settled on for the last four years now after swapping pieces in and out at a fevered pace. I (at last)have no desire to alter this pairing as it sounds sublime in my home environment. In my experience, Pass makes great sounding amps, but their preamps are anemic and lifeless(and yes, I owned both the XP-20 and XP-30 paired with the XA60.8 and XA 160.8). Each of the XA (amazing amps) sounded far better when paired with the Motherlode Preamp. Bottom line if you take anything from my post...Pass on Pass preamps!

@bccarpenter I was also thinking about tubes but was wondering what my #8 would sound like with a decent tube preamp like Prima Luna EVO 400, Luxman or other somewhat high-quality tube preamp. Like yyzsantabarbara  I'm using an Audio Holo Serene KTE, now.

I have the same speakers with a CODA No.8, fed by a Lyngdorf MP-40.  So not the exact same pre, but maybe helpful to know.  Before the Coda, I was running a Cherry Amp that had a better midrange, tubey magic than the Coda, but it was lost when sending in for upgrades and the owner passed around the same time.  The Coda is a more 'polite' amp than the Cherry but still very full bodied.  I still miss the Cherry for the addictive midrange magic.  I have thought about tubes for these speakers, but I think I would give up certain aspects of the sound by making that move, since the Kanta's are so needy in the mid bass and bass (power wise).

@yyzsantabarbara  That's the first I've seen about the packing point, interesting! 

I'm going to Sunny and see if maybe I can put a deposit down to demo it. That would be ideal but not sure if they would. I just don't want warmth at the expense of detail really. And something that will play nice with a variety of genres!

@christianb5s4 If you do buy a used #16 be aware that there is some special setup needed to be done on the amp before it is shipped. Luckily, the guy I bought my used amp from had it checked out by CODA and they informed him how to pack for shipping. You need to open the top panel and insert provided foam inserts so that certain internals do not fall. This is to be overly cautious.

I just bought the PeachTree GAN400 amp again for $1200. I will sell it again once I have decided on what amp to get later (or maybe be happy with the GAN400 and save money). I was wrong I need an amp in my office immediately.

With the Focals I think I would go with the KRELL. For my Yamaha NS5000, which has a tinge of warmth, I went with the less warm CODA #16. That is how I hear it but a KRELL dealer I am working with insists the CODA is warmer.

@yyzsantabarbara There's also this one floating around, it's been re-listed a few times. CODA No. 16 Amplifier For Sale - US Audio Mart

I too am not interested in something overly 'tubey' but a touch of warmth with all the detail and refinement would be perfection. I feel the Pass XP22 is fairly neutral with a tinge of warmth so an amp with the same quality would be a great match with the Focals I think.

Fortunately for us working folks, Sunny is open on Saturdays. Maybe I can trek out this weekend.

@christianb5s4 I am also considering the CODA #15.5 (an upgraded model). I have a #16.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649992711-coda-no-155/

Though I am leaning towards the CODA #8 or Bryston 4B3 for my LRS+. Not in a rush.

@christianb5s4 Not sure about home demos. I have only bought some items online from them. I have gone to the store for some audio events. I definitely recommend that you make that relatively short drive up to Covina. I think the Duo XD is really great stuff. I tend to dislike tubey, warm, and smooth sound. However, the Duo XD works for me. You never get any fatigue and keep thinking that this sounds so nice.

I should really have bought it for my Magnepan LRS+ speakers, but the size of the amp is a bit big for my office. I may change my mind since I have a friend who I visit and he lives 3 miles away. If I do not have an amp the next time I visit I will visit the shop and maybe make an impulse buy.

I love the amp with a neutral preamp (my Benchmark LA4). Most will use something warmer and maybe demoed with warmer gear. I may not have bought it if I heard it that way.

@yyzsantabarbara Do you know if they allow home demos? I'd be willing to put money down for any dealer willing to do that.

Covina isn't far from me either (I'm in Newport Beach).

@christianb5s4 Sunny's in Covina, CA has the Duo 300XD trade-in model for $6250. 

@jeffreyw A local dealer suggested a M462 over Parasound and even above either, the 611. I ended up going JC5 used for a good deal as they didn't allow in home demos and was space limited on monoblocks at the time.

@decooney I haven't had a ton of gear in my system to compare to, but in my mind i would like a bit more shimmer / sparkle and a more pronounced upper midrange. It's definitely not veiled and the Focals shine in that department to my ears. I guess it's more so figuring out what might be the 'weak link' in the chain which based on price at least, is the amp (which doesn't necessarily mean much I know).

@willywonka Thank you for the insight, I like companies that don't need marketing or publicity yet have loyal followings for a reason. Is there anything specific you like from the Coda versus Parasound as far as performance? 

@yyzsantabarbara Krell has been one I've looked into with a lot of interest, originally the 402 and then 300XD. Personally I feel that Parasound is relatively neutral and I like that aspect, so something along that same vein but more refined / special is very much of interest hence why Coda really intrigued me. 

I had a Parasound A23 and A21+. The A21+ was rather good, though a little too warm for me and not as detailed. I got a KRELL Duo 175XD to replace it and it was much better for my tastes. Ultra smooth and more detailed, slightly less warm.

At that time, I also had a CODA #8 v1. It was not as detailed or smooth sounding as the KRELL. The smoothness is not usually something I look for but on the KRELL it was a nice sound. The CODA seemed better in every way for my taste’s vs the A21+. I liked the KRELL a little bit more than the #8.

I now have the CODA #16 to replace the #8 and KRELL. Not sure if the CODA #16 is better than the KRELL. They sound different. The KRELL is smoother, and the CODA has a bit more detail and maybe if I remember correctly a bit more bass slam.

I need to buy 1 more amp since I am down to 1 amp with 2 systems. Luckily, I am broke, so I am thinking instead of buying. I am considering the CODA #8, the upcoming Sim Audio North Collection (for neutrality), Bryston 4B3, and Mitchi S5. I am not considering the KRELL Duo XD because I do not think I would like it with 1 of my 2 speakers.

No tubes for me in either of my 2-channels systems. I use a tube amp for headphones. My 2-channel preamps are uber neutral and let the amp dictate the sound. I have a Benchmark LA4 and Holo Serene preamp. I have heard the LA4 with all the amps mentioned before. I did try a Schitt Freya+ tube preamp and it was not to my taste, nor was the CODA 07x preamp which is described as tubey.

I own a Coda #8 and in my opinion it is superior to Parasound. I was making the same considerations as you. I am lucky to live 15 minutes from the factory so not only did I buy direct from Doug Dale but he took me on a tour of their small facility, and we talked for over an hour with their history with Threshold and Nelson Pass. Two huge advantages with the coda are the versions 1, 2, and 3 are all the same costs and he will do the upgrades for free minus shipping if needed. Also, these units have a 10 year warranty with 5 years being transferable. The parts quality and build on these is amazing. I’m driving some Magnepan's with them and it sounds amazing. Many people in these forums are making recommendations on this and have never heard the Coda products. Coda was rarely at audio shows, and they don't do these anymore per their owner. Legacy used to use them at shows but that's been a while. Yes, I have heard Parasound amps many times.

@christianb5s4 "interested in an amp that offers a bit more refinement in the midrange and treble."

While I run a tube preamp when paired with my Pass/Forte’ Class A amp, and yes it sounds nice, and we also understand what your JC5 amp is, I’m wondering what you feel your XP22 / JC5 combo is missing now with midrange and treble?

i.e Is it too detailed/grainy or too soft/veiled over, or what’s going on that you don’t care for,...and now have the itch to buy another amp or another preamp. The JC5 is no slouch and neither is the XP22. Maybe there is another way to get you "there".

In other words what is "more refinement" to you - can you share a little more?

@christianb5s4 

I had a CODA 16. I would consider it neutral with outstanding bass. It is a great company with stellar customer service. I have since moved on to McIntosh Mc 611s. I prefer more warmth and a much stronger bass/midbass response.