Any more opinions bout amber and maria? curious bout this still...
Opinions about Daniel Hertz
Have anyone heard Daniel Hertz’s Maria intergrated amps with Eva or Amber speakers? Stephen Huff gave them one of the best reviews ever but is it all marketing and hype? Mark Levinson claims to solve the problems of digital reproduction with his master class software which can turn any digital recording into original master tape quality.
But ML had a questionable past such as rebranding Chinese products as his own and marking up the price. Others said he can’t design anything but hires good talent while he works on marketing. His series of business ventures and contentious business relationships would give one pause, but I only care about the sound. What do others think? Did he in fact made a revolutionary breakthrough in digital playback. Or is it all hype? Bottom line is how do his systems sound?
This week I visited the Daniel Hertz distributor Lone Crowe audio in Santa Rosa, California. After Steve Huff’s glowing and intriguing review of the Maria 350 with the Amber speakers and the Hifi Rose RS130, I wanted to audition the system in person. The Maria 350 wasn’t available so I listened to the Maria 800, which John, the owner of Lone Tree, said sounds identical to the 350, but is a bi-amped version. Listening to the Amber speakers with the 800, I was initially disappointed with the sound, very heavy, low, and almost muffled. However, after about ten to fifteen minutes of warm up, the sound changed immensely. It was wonderfully articulated, strings shimmered, vocals were warm and rich, the presentation was holographic and presented a wide and fairly deep soundstage. I was blown away. Listening to a variety of well known tracks through Tidal, I heard things I’ve never heard before and was elated. The combination is exceptional and Steve Huff and Adrian are right. Daniel Hertz is on to something that is exceptional. I highly recommend you listen yourself and don’t rely on the naysayers that haven’t. Your own ears will convince you like mine did. Highly recommended! |
According to his video digital music has negative health causations and his amps have an algorithm that inject a small amount of reverb between the digital steps for a less damaging experience. He also sells the software separately but it isn't as full featured as his amps. I haven't heard it or even researched the claims but I'm old and a tube guy and he's a well known name in the industry so sure I bet it's great |
After I heard about the Daniel Hertz Maria 350, I got curious and red all I could read. The marketing is convincing, but what would my ears report? So I arranged a demo with Magna Hifi from Heiloo (Netherlands) at my house and played songs I really know well on my own equipment. It took about 15 seconds for the first “Wow!”: so much ease, so much detail and space. What a natural way of playing my favorite songs. And what a power when needed! Now, after 3 months, she is here: the Maria 350 playing on my Martin Logan ESL 13A’s. The Grimm MU1 streamer is perhaps overkill (not sure yet), but it is a magical combination. Cables matter, as do power cords. I sold my DAC, pre-amp and amp, which financed most of the Maria. Daniel Hertz offered to write a special file for my speakers to upload to the Maria that make my Martin Logans perform even better. We’ll see/hear. Never regretted my decision one second. |
Love the m7 speakers which I still own and intend to keep for long time, didn’t love the Maria amp I was given to audition with it. Didn’t hold a candle to my Absolare integrated, sounded like generic class d, bleached of color and texture. Maybe that was because the user is forced to use bare wire speaker cables with the Maria amps, but probably not. Can’t speak to the amber speaker… never heard it. |
Red Rose was mostly a re-branding of "Audio Prism", made in the USA (by friends of mine noted in the below article from 1999). those USA products were definitely not in that mechanical ’etched’ sounding category. https://www.stereophile.com/news/10627/index.html later they did add some Chinese sourced products (which i’ve not heard so cannot comment). |
over the years, despite its premium positioning marketing wise, i have never liked the sound of levinson/madrigal/proceed gear, then cello, then red rose - the various incarnations started by 'the person' mark levinson as he jumped from one to the next... each time the prices went more and more into the shameless nosebleed zone hyper clear, etched, rather mechanical sounding, not organic, lacking in coherence to my ear -- the kind of sound that impresses in demos or at first listen, but which wears out its welcome upon ownership or extended listening for this reason, i am not at all intrigued by this latest incarnation of levinson stuff under this daniel hertz label... maybe the sound is different this time, but i am hardly eager to find out |
I heard the ML story directly from John Curl - that’s the first knock on ML. Next is their gear is rarely/never mentioned in the latest gear or in comparison reviews, so I’m assuming old tech to not compete well sonically with contemporary new electronics, unlike Ayre and Boulder top offerings which seemingly continues to compete sonically against the newer electronics. |
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i have zero opinion about ML’s Daniel Hertz venture, one way or another. never had any interest to even look into it. OTOH i do have a couple long term friends who were in that group of his "contentious business relationships". i heard enough first person accounts to not want anything to do with him. i do respect his contributions to our hobby. i don’t know ’Huff’ from a bale of hay. as far as 'running through gear'......i've had the same room, same amp brand and speaker brand for 2 decades. made one upgrade for each. i have evolved my sources over time. i do love my gear and talk about it, but mostly talk about my whole 'system' process and the importance of putting work into tuning my system. not sure what i did to cause you to attack me. but i'm sorry for whatever it was. |
Judging by responses above, thread should be titled Levinson Witch hunt. For whatever its worth, the guy is smarter than most dudes peddling non-innovative, lazy rinse/rehash/repeat crap in the high end for decades. The latter type of creature must live with a deep sense of insecurity whenever it sees innovative guys like Levinson, Borresen, etc. |
The thread is labelled, opinion on Daniel Hertz, so of course I would expect to hear lots of different views but..... Personally, I’m more interested in how the equipment sounds from people who’ve actually heard it. The rest of the stuff is very speculative. It might affect your decision to purchase because of distrust of the founder or the brand, and that’s perfectly fair. People vote with how they spend their dollars. Not easy to audition, but would like to cut through the marketing hype. Hand cut, hand polished Perspex by artisans to me, still means acrylic/plastic. What I’m curious about is demystifying the Mighty Cat Class D audio chip and theory behind the C-wave that supposedly eliminates digit-itus. Are these just patents, fancy labels for a Ganfet based DSP and some type of filter? Do they really offer competitive differentiation? Would like to see someone compare the AGD Audio MKIII to the Maria 350 and see how they stack up to each other. |
You mean like Elon Musk selling 85% of Tesla lol https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/setting-the-m-levinson-red-rose-correct At the same time I do agree that almost every audio manufacturer whose brain-name as one person, is quite a salesman as well. Getting back to the OP has anyone heard or own the Maria and can chime in? With all the name slogging aside, is ML’s Maria sounding like the best of the best or salesmanship? |
Jay had some funny comments in his video regarding Mark and the new amp: "hiding in Italy" and "pump and dump" Adrian posted another youtube review with the Maria being preferred over the other amps that he sells, and Adrian points out that this conclusion goes against his financial interests, since Daniel Hertz also sells the Maria direct, and Adrian would make more money selling the other lines that he carries.
Also, in the new Adrian review - some odd stuff about the Hegel, with the manufacturer reaching out to say that maybe the unit he reviewed was a dud, and they want to send him another one. That does not instill confidence. |
Don't know but I am familiar with his brother Mr. Dick |
I have great respect for the man. He has his name all over the industry and a good one at that. Who has a perfect personal life? I respect him. There are some misconceptions and bs out there. Ml never repackaged Chinese. They did a knock off of his. He never designed RR. He bought the rights to sell them from the company that made them for a NY cliche market. That literally went down in flames in 911. There were reliability issues at first. He had the company make changes to the amps for reliability. The manufacturer would not let the schematics out, not even to ML. They retained the right to make them. He never had his hands on anything inside the boxes. Look at the specs of the two and see for yourself. Name one amp that had his name on it that had poor sound or quality? The man is a legend. |
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When I first saw S. Huff's review of the Daniel Hertz's Maria w/ Eva system, I was excited to make plans to go up to N. Cal for an auditioning. But after seeing all the comments and using some common sense, I was a lot less excited, thinking perhaps this is more marketing hype than substance? Class D, light weight int amp, small cooper speaker wires b/c the amp was tuned to it (really?), and the ground breaking software decoding that transforms digital to the most analog experience ever, if these were true, than the entire audiophile industry got it all wrong. Add on the history with Redrose Music, Mark's treatment of Jonathan Curl, and let's not forget his history of companies: Madrigal Audio Labs, ML, Cello, Redrose Music, and now Daniel Hertz. I was skeptical at best and found peace laying it to rest.
That's until I saw the review by Adrian Low at Audio Excellence, a person whom I respect as a straight shooter. Now, that aching question returns. Is it really as good as M. Levinson claims? We need OCD Mickey or Jay Audio or others to review this damn system and give us some unbiased reviews. |
The review I linked to was a bit confusing to me. I am under the impression that the Maria amp is a Class D amp (maybe GAN) with the digital conversion done in a chip. The chip does more than a standard DAC chip I am thinking the Maria is something like this,
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At least its very affordable - Maria 800 with M1 Speakers M1 System (Maria 800 with M1 Reference Speakers Audio System)
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Mark Levinson is more of a marketer than a designer. Jonathan Curl was one of his engineers at the beginning of ML. The JC-2 preamp was Jonathan’s design. After JC left the name was changed to the ML-1. "According to John Curl, he and Mark Levinson had an argument about intellectual rights and the refusal to pay any royalties to him regarding the JC-2 resulted in a conflict between the two then the breaking of relations and a name badge change from JC-2 to ML-1." According to Wikipedia:
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Mark Levinson left the company many years ago ( 1984 ). In 1980 ML was in financial trouble, and he asked Sanford Berlin to invest in his company. Berlin invested 480,000 and others invested another 300,000. He asked Berlin to invest and aid in the management of the company. His older original amps were good. After that he started the Cello company, and a couple of others. Since 1984 he has had nothing to do with the Mark Levinson company. |
From reading comments here I would not go anywhere near Levinson stuff. Well let me tell you put-downers and haters that I own an ML23.5 and it is a great amp, really great. There is no bling, no 'show' just a plain looking form follows function amp. I bet some of you mouthing off have never heard his early stuff. ML was taken over by the giant Harman group and are producing components designed not by Levinson himself but by other audio engineers and marketed under the ML name yet nobody seems to find fault with that. ??? |
In case some might misinterpret, the ML products discussed here and the ML products from Harman are completely different and separate. Harman’s new 5000 series ML componentry is designed by excellent, experienced engineers, the price is now affordable by more, and the sound is great, some of my favorite. |
I concur about Huff human side and good will persona... I dont bother with reviewers most of the times save a very rare exceptions.. I bought a Douk product a preamplifier at 50 bucks after his review of one at 100 bucks ... Everything he said was true... This does not means that all Douk product are all good and not junk...But some are not junk at all ...It seems too many good chinese engineers had no jobs elsewhere for some time and go working for Nobsound ... I dont know... There is way much engineers in China that look for a low payed job than in US by statistic...
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Huff stated that the Aavik U-150 integrated was the best integrated he'd ever heard.....he was right. I bought one and can confirm it's the best integrated I've ever heard and will never sell it .He's a reviewer and as such, he has to move to different equipment on a constant basis....I love his take on things and I love watching Steve G also.....They are entertainers that review audio gear...no more, no less. .......Is there anyone else that will say something positive. As far as Levinson goes, I have no comment. |