Back to the beginning. Has anyone here actually herd the Maria amp driving a set of hi quality speakers (not ML)?

TIA

Love the m7 speakers which I still own and intend to keep for long time, didn’t love the Maria amp I was given to audition with it.  Didn’t hold a candle to my Absolare integrated, sounded like generic class d, bleached of color and texture.  Maybe that was because the user is forced to use bare wire speaker cables with the Maria amps, but probably not.  Can’t speak to the amber speaker… never heard it.  

@mikelavigne

yes if memory serves, this was the model red rose tube amp (rebranded audioprism) i had in my second system for a while

red rose 

i didn’t think an el34 tube amp could sound shrill (may it was the lame shuguang tubes in it) but this one did and thus it didn’t last long -- back in went my arc vt50 in a hurry

Well, if we’re just spending money, 30,000 Euro for an amp, I found a matching stove at .5 million...

That’s probably how much we’ll have to spend to have a gas stove soon.

@jjss49 

Red Rose was mostly a re-branding of "Audio Prism", made in the USA (by friends of mine noted in the below article from 1999). those USA products were definitely not in that mechanical ’etched’ sounding category.

https://www.stereophile.com/news/10627/index.html

later they did add some Chinese sourced products (which i’ve not heard so cannot comment).

over the years, despite its premium positioning marketing wise, i have never liked the sound of levinson/madrigal/proceed gear, then cello, then red rose - the various incarnations started by 'the person' mark levinson as he jumped from one to the next... each time the prices went more and more into the shameless nosebleed zone

hyper clear, etched, rather mechanical sounding, not organic, lacking in coherence to my ear -- the kind of sound that impresses in demos or at first listen, but which wears out its welcome upon ownership or extended listening

for this reason, i am not at all intrigued by this latest incarnation of levinson stuff under this daniel hertz label... maybe the sound is different this time, but i am hardly eager to find out

Well, if we're just spending money, 30,000 Euro for an amp, I found a matching stove at .5 million... 

I heard the ML story directly from John Curl - that’s the first knock on ML. Next is their gear is rarely/never mentioned in the latest gear or in comparison reviews, so I’m assuming old tech to not compete well sonically with contemporary new electronics, unlike Ayre and Boulder top offerings which seemingly continues to compete sonically against the newer electronics.

I had that Dussun. It was spectacular.

@jc51373

i have zero opinion about ML’s Daniel Hertz venture, one way or another. never had any interest to even look into it. OTOH i do have a couple long term friends who were in that group of his "contentious business relationships". i heard enough first person accounts to not want anything to do with him.

i do respect his contributions to our hobby.

i don’t know ’Huff’ from a bale of hay.

as far as 'running through gear'......i've had the same room, same amp brand and speaker brand for 2 decades. made one upgrade for each. i have evolved my sources over time. i do love my gear and talk about it, but mostly talk about my whole 'system' process and the importance of putting work into tuning my system.

not sure what i did to cause you to attack me. but i'm sorry for whatever it was.

@mikelavigne 

Gimme a break Mike...You have run through 3x as much gear as Huff...Not to mention you're both literally the same hifi persona schilling for brands you love. 

Would You go for this Maria/Amber system or for Voxativ Zeth Absolut system, costing few thousand less?

Judging by responses above, thread should be titled Levinson Witch hunt.

For whatever its worth, the guy is smarter than most dudes peddling non-innovative, lazy rinse/rehash/repeat crap in the high end for decades. The latter type of creature must live with a deep sense of insecurity whenever it sees innovative guys like Levinson, Borresen, etc.

The thread is labelled, opinion on Daniel Hertz, so of course I would expect to hear lots of different views but.....

Personally, I’m more interested in how the equipment sounds from people who’ve actually heard it.

The rest of the stuff is very speculative.  It might affect your decision to purchase because of distrust of the founder or the brand, and that’s perfectly fair. People vote with how they spend their dollars.

Not easy to audition, but would like to cut through the marketing hype.

Hand cut, hand polished Perspex by artisans to me, still means acrylic/plastic.

What I’m curious about is demystifying the Mighty Cat Class D audio chip and theory behind the C-wave that supposedly eliminates digit-itus.

Are these just patents, fancy labels for a Ganfet based DSP and some type of filter? Do they really offer competitive differentiation?

Would like to see someone compare the AGD Audio MKIII to the Maria 350 and see how they stack up to each other.

You mean like Elon Musk selling 85% of Tesla lol

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/setting-the-m-levinson-red-rose-correct

At the same time I do agree that almost every audio manufacturer whose brain-name as one person, is quite a salesman as well. Getting back to the OP has anyone heard or own the Maria and can chime in?  With all the name slogging aside, is ML’s Maria sounding like the best of the best or salesmanship?

Jay had some funny comments in his video regarding Mark and the new amp:  "hiding in Italy" and "pump and dump" 

Adrian posted another youtube review with the Maria being preferred over the other amps that he sells, and Adrian points out that this conclusion goes against his financial interests, since Daniel Hertz also sells the Maria direct, and Adrian would make more money selling the other lines that he carries. 

Also, in the new Adrian review - some odd stuff about the Hegel, with the manufacturer reaching out to say that maybe the unit he reviewed was a dud, and they want to send him another one.  That does not instill confidence.

You should expect opinions on discussion forums.

Great to know the forum posters here are the real experts, not guys like Steve G and Steve H who review equipment every day and have tried more stuff in a year than most of us in a lifetime.  

Jay makes some good points. Thanks for posting. 

Great CDC!

One thing you have to question is why M. Levinson starts so many companies and sells them off after they become successful. And if the same thing will happen with the new one.

Opinions about Daniel Hertz

Don't know but I am familiar with his brother Mr. Dick

I agree with Arafiq. Anyone who makes Youtube income by putting down others, Mr. Huff, is a scoundrel.   

I have great respect for the man. He has his name all over the industry and a good one at that. Who has a perfect personal life?  I respect him. There are some misconceptions and bs out there. Ml never repackaged Chinese. They did a knock off of his. He never designed RR. He bought the rights to sell them from the company that made them for a NY cliche market. That literally went down in flames in 911. There were reliability issues at first. He had the company make changes to the amps for reliability. The manufacturer would not let the schematics out, not even to ML. They retained the right to make them. He never had his hands on anything inside the boxes. Look at the specs of the two and see for yourself. Name one amp that had his name on it that had poor sound or quality?  The man is a legend. 

Daniel Hertz is an audio equipment guy. Lol.

Good point. Maybe I’m naive but I was thinking their reputation is on the line and the more reviews we have the better.

Then buy his f-ing stuff without wasting time to listen to it. This forum is for those who want to investigate and get to the truth.

He did?

When I first saw S. Huff's review of the Daniel Hertz's Maria w/ Eva system, I was excited to make plans to go up to N. Cal for an auditioning. But after seeing all the comments and using some common sense, I was a lot less excited, thinking perhaps this is more marketing hype than substance? Class D, light weight int amp, small cooper speaker wires b/c the amp was tuned to it (really?), and the ground breaking software decoding that transforms digital to the most analog experience ever, if these were true, than the entire audiophile industry got it all wrong. Add on the history with Redrose Music, Mark's treatment of Jonathan Curl, and let's not forget his history of companies:  Madrigal Audio Labs, ML, Cello, Redrose Music, and now Daniel Hertz. I was skeptical at best and found peace laying it to rest. 

That's until I saw the review by Adrian Low at Audio Excellence, a person whom I respect as a straight shooter. Now, that aching question returns. Is it really as good as M. Levinson claims? We need OCD Mickey or Jay Audio or others to review this damn system and give us some unbiased reviews. 

The review I linked to was a bit confusing to me. I am under the impression that the Maria amp is a Class D amp (maybe GAN) with the digital conversion done in a chip. The chip does more than a standard DAC chip

I am thinking the Maria is something like this,

What makes the GaN 1 so special?

First and foremost is the GaN-FET amplifier module. It has several inherent advantages in a power amplifier that even the best MOS-FET designs simply cannot achieve. A GaN-FET power stage provides a precise high-power reproduction of the Class-D PWM signal with extremely high linearity. This linearity eliminates the need for ANY feedback, ultimately allowing for the best possible audio quality providing clean, clear middle and high frequencies and a tight, solid reproduction of low frequencies. GaN-FETs track the complex audio waveforms so much more accurately than MOS-FETs resulting in significantly more transparent and natural sound. The difference is something even a casual listener can hear and appreciate. The GaN 1 is also designed so that it does NOT even require a digital-to-analog-converter (DAC). The digital audio signal at the input directs the amplifier outputs to drive the speakers. Although DACs have continued to improve over the years, there is no DAC better than NO DAC! This concept is not a new one as similar devices often referred to as "Power DACs" made quite a splash in our industry years ago, but this time around, using the concept with GaN-FETs raises the bar to an entirely new level.

At least its very affordable -

Maria 800 with M1 Speakers

M1 System (Maria 800 with M1 Reference Speakers Audio System)

Regular Price

€200.000,00

 

 

 

100% Marketing Hype no question. 🤣😂😅

First Impressions on Daniel Hertz Maria 350 Integrated Amplifier and Eva Speakers (youtube.com)

Mark Levinson is more of a marketer than a designer. Jonathan Curl was one of his engineers at the beginning of ML. The JC-2 preamp was Jonathan’s design. After JC left the name was changed to the ML-1.

"According to John Curl, he and Mark Levinson had an argument about intellectual rights and the refusal to pay any royalties to him regarding the JC-2 resulted in a conflict between the two then the breaking of relations and a name badge change from JC-2 to ML-1."

According to Wikipedia:

• JC-1 Moving Coil Cartridge Preamplifier (design credit : John Curl)
• JC-1AC Moving Coil Cartridge Preamplifier (design credit : John Curl)
• JC-2 Straightline Preamplifier (design credit : John Curl)
• LNC-1 Electronic Crossover (design credit : Richard Burwen)
• LNC-2 Electronic Crossover(design credit : Richard Burwen / Thomas Colangelo)
• ML-1 Preamplifier (at first a rebadged JC-2 due to IP by John Curl, design credit : John Curl / Thomas Colangelo)
• ML-2 Class A Mono Amplifier with regulated power supplies (design credit : John Curl(JC-3) / Thomas Colangelo)
• ML-3 Stereo Power Amplifier(Dual mono design first series with optional ML-2 style frontplate as an option, design credit : Thomas Colangelo)
• ML-5 modified Studer A-80 professional tape recorder with custom electronics
• ML-6 Dual Mono Preamplifier (basically two ML-1’s created after a Japanese customer pointed out that in mono the ML-1 sounded better. Also available in silver look)
• ML-6A Dual Mono Preamplifier (open frame modules instead of the potted ones before, design credit : Thomas Colangelo)
• ML-7 Preamplifier (stereo ML-6a, design credit : Thomas Colangelo)
• ML-7A Preamplifier (update by Madrigal, design credit : Thomas Colangelo)
• ML-8 Microphone Preamplifier (input Brüel & Kjær microphones)
• ML-9 Power Amplifier (design credit : Thomas Colangelo)
• ML-10 Preamplifier (design credit : Thomas Colangelo)
• ML-11 Preamplifier (budget model forced by new management, design credit : Thomas Colangelo)
• ML-12 Power Amplifier (budget model forced by new management, design credit : Thomas Colangelo)
  https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/mark-levinson-lets-be-more-honest-have-a-higher-value-of-ethics.9414/page-3

   

Mark Levinson left the company many years ago ( 1984 ). In 1980 ML was in financial trouble, and he asked Sanford Berlin to invest in his company. Berlin invested 480,000 and others invested another 300,000. He asked Berlin to invest and aid in the management of the company. His older original amps were good. After that he started the Cello company, and a couple of others. Since 1984 he has had nothing to do with the Mark Levinson company.

From reading comments here I would not go anywhere near Levinson stuff.  Well let me tell you put-downers and haters that I own an ML23.5 and it is a great amp, really great. There is no bling, no 'show' just a plain looking form follows function amp.

I bet some of you mouthing off have never heard his early stuff.  ML was taken over by the giant Harman group and are producing components designed not by Levinson himself but by other audio engineers and marketed under the ML name yet nobody seems to find fault with that. ???

In case some might misinterpret, the ML products discussed here and the ML products from Harman are completely different and separate. Harman’s new 5000 series ML componentry is designed by excellent, experienced engineers, the price is now affordable by more, and the sound is great, some of my favorite.

I concur about Huff human side and good will persona...

I dont bother with reviewers most of the times save a very rare exceptions..

I bought a Douk product a preamplifier at 50 bucks after his review of one at 100 bucks ... Everything he said was true... This does not means that all Douk product are all good and not junk...But some are not junk at all ...It seems too many good chinese engineers had no jobs elsewhere for some time and go working for Nobsound ... I dont know... There is way much engineers in China that look for a low payed job than in US by statistic...

Huff stated that the Aavik U-150 integrated was the best integrated he’d ever heard.....he was right. I bought one and can confirm it’s the best integrated I’ve ever heard and will never sell it .He’s a reviewer and as such, he has to move to different equipment on a constant basis....I love his take on things and I love watching Steve G also.....They are entertainers that review audio gear...no more, no less. .......Is there anyone else that will say something positive. As far as Levinson goes, I have no comment.

Huff stated that the Aavik U-150 integrated was the best integrated he'd ever heard.....he was right.  I bought one and can confirm it's the best integrated I've ever heard and will never sell it  .He's a reviewer and as such, he has to move to different equipment on a constant basis....I love his take on things and I love watching Steve G also.....They are entertainers that review audio gear...no more,  no less. .......Is there anyone else that will say something positive. As far as Levinson goes, I have no comment.

ML is for someone who wants a pretty looking  piece of equipment.  All show.

Dussun

couldn’t copy it but now do a search on Dusdun V8i.

Mark is a businessman first, he does what HE feels best for his brand. It wouldn’t surprise me if he did go to China, he has hoodwinked us before. I believe even if sounds good, it’s not worth the 💵 you will spend. Mark is very influential and sheep will follow and support the high pricing and miss gear more deserving at with less hoopla. I know I don’t buy his gear and I can find better for less money .

I thought Huff’s take on the plastic case for the Hertz amp was pretty funny...as if plastic was a breakthrough material. 12 thousand euros for the smaller amp...it might be somewhat water resistant, or it floats. Doesn’t Levinson live on a houseboat somewhere?

I haven't independently verified claims that ML re-branded Chinese equipment and jacked up the price. However, it is all over the internet message boards. 

Hopefully, someone who have heard the DH system will chime in. 

I put little faith in huffs reliability in reviewing imo 

he maybe right on somethings,but technically he is not that knowledgeable .

let’s see testing and popping thetop for the quality inside where it counts .

that’s where many reviewers fail.

"if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all"