Older subwoofers better than newer subwoofers!

I have the Velodyne ULD 15 MK II. 
 

Placement is critical. I used the crawl test. Oddly, it sounded fantastic AT the seating position. I moved it 3 feet behind. 

I am currently fine with it. 

["deadhead1000   I had a Velodyne that was at least 15 years old, it was great for surround sound with movies, but even though room filling, it didn't seem to do 2 channel very well. I turned the movie room into just a music room about 2 years ago and replaced the Velodyne late last year with a JL Audio with DSP. The JL Audio sub itself is so well mixed in with my main speakers that you can't tell I have a sub. That was never true with the Velodyne."] 

["musicaddict   I had one of the first Velodyne F-1800 Mk. II monster subwoofers with servo-control a monster amp and 30+lb 18 inch driver.  Never-again for audio, theater doubtful."]

Understandable.

In my Velodyne ULD thru the HGS series manuals they warn against middle of the room locations, the effects of corner placement and suggesting side wall placement experimentation. A vague and easily overlooked suggestion likely leading to both of your issues. During a 60's session a recording engineer explained placing the sub at the listening position to find the rooms bass mode sub position. I assumed it common knowledge. Over ten years after the ULD the Foundation Series was a substantial redesign, sorry you were unable to enjoy it. 

I believe the first Velodyne positioning reference was in the 2003 Digital Drive Series Manual under, 'About Room Placement, 10. added a Tip: placing the sub at the listening position and using the mic and graphic display to locate the room positions with the flattest frequency response. 

In Velodyne's 2011 DD Plus User's Manual the "Crawl Test" is more clearly explained under the heading Optimization for Subwoofer Placement and the first step of the Optimization Parameters. The then all new DD Plus uses a vastly more system inclusive Auto / Manual EQ Room Optimization setup procedure over the DD. The DD Plus 200-15Hz Sweep Tones are played through the entire speaker and subwoofer systems. The in room frequency response of the speakers from 200Hz is graphically displayed. When the Plus Optimization begins the 20 minute Auto EQ adjusts the subs output parameters from100Hz in relation to the speakers low frequency output within the room at the same time leaving the speakers free of digital conversion or added time consuming I /O stages.

Over a decade ago I used my Velodyne's early DD-18's processing to run a JL Audio F113. Three of us agreed there was a very noticeable improvement over the auto only A.R.O.. Even so the Fathom series are incredible subwoofers. 

I had one of the first Velodyne F-1800 Mk. II monster subwoofers with servo-control a monster amp and 30+lb 18 inch driver.  Never-again for audio, theater doubtful.

You can buy whatever kind/quality sub you desire these days but the old 'boomers' are not as popular as newer subs seem (less blurry) more musical/tighter (if you want). There are still plenty of big ported subs for theater boom.

I believe subwoofer technology has increased far more in the last fifteen years than that of other audio devices. At the same time prices have plummeted for quality inexpensive subs. (Hsu, Rythmik, SVS, etc.)

With DSP and a fair set-up, I think most would be amazed how great a Swarm 4-sub setup can sound as opposed to one big old sub of days of yore.

But OP, your ASW2000 is a very fine sub so I understand where you remain!

@toro3 ,

Thanks for that! I have a Rythmic sub I bought used some months ago and while sounds good it just does not seem tight enough. With all the talk about how articulate the Rythmic subs are I have been diss appointed. I didn’t know about the damping adjustment. Sure enough I just checked after reading your comment and it was on low damping. Hoping this firms up the bass a bit. 👍

Maybe a more important issue is that subwoofers are designed to address bass frequencies that they were not originally intended to deal with. A larger Driver used wIth subs was intended to provide a blanket at the lowest basslevels where definition is less meaningful.

Over recent years drivers in main speakers have gotten smaller for cosmetic purposes (ie. smaller cabinets) and that leads to bass deficiencies.

So now subs are proliferating all over the place to deal with stereo listening deficiencies from Main speakers. Profoundly sad. With subwoofers to address these deficiencies it leads to more problems coordinating and synchronizing sound which leads to more marketing opportunities in the DSP area. It’s getting crazy out there.

Yes, Hsu have something similar.  I kind of ignore it and use an external EQ which gives me a lot more flexibility and fine control.

I had a Velodyne that was at least 15 years old, it was great for surround sound with movies, but even though room filling, it didn't seem to do 2 channel very well. I turned the movie room into just a music room about 2 years ago and replaced the Velodyne late last year with a JL Audio with DSP. Now music sounds like music at the bottom end, I think the "room filling" I was experiencing with the Velodyne was really standing waves, or just rumble/bloat rather then real bass notes. It was mush at the bottom end, great for explosions/car crashes, not so much for music.

I would not go back to a 15 year old sub myself. The JL Audio sub itself is so well mixed in with my main speakers that you can't tell I have a sub. That was never true with the Velodyne. Just my experience with subs.

Unsure about subwoofers, but subs at Firehouse Sub used to be a lot better.

When I watched Travelers Canadian Sci-Fi TV series, It was extremely notable to me that travelers from the far future were craving food from the past. 

My above post was offered in the spirit of the op. I didn't want to bring into the discussion more modern subwoofer designs, such as those of Rythmik Audio.

Anyone interested in info on the variable-damping control (as well as other technical matters) found in the Rythmik plate amps of that company's subs can find it on the company's website.

The Rythmik Audio subwoofer plate amp controls (and subs!) are imo the best in the business. I own four of them.

@erik_squires yes! Thank you for correcting. If I remember, HSU also has Q Control.

I checked a few noteworthy subwoofers and they didn't have this dampening control.  Do many  come with a dampening control?

@toro3

Based on their website, it's Damping, but not damping factor. :)  DF refers to the output impedance of an amplifier. They are pretty much doing what I called Q adjustment.

Best,

Erik

I’m sure more knowledgeable people can explain or correct me, but the way I’ve interpreted it via the way it’s employed by a Rythmik sub - high dampening (tightest/cleanest sound), mid, as well as low (looser - perhaps more room filling).
With my Rythmik they are easily noticeable, especially when you begin tailoring the frequency extension/roll off in conjunction.  

When it comes to the quality of sound of a sub in a room the frequency response trumps everything else but unfortunately audiophiles try to attribute good and bad sounding subs to everything BUT the frequency response.  A good DSP and room treatment can make a lot of subs sound marvelous in a lot more rooms than they would otherwise.

@toro3 Are you sure you don’t mean system Q? Which controls the steepness of the high pass roll-off and general frequency response?

What is the dampening factor? Seems the only thing that can dampen the sound on the back of my subwoofer is the volume.

So modern subwoofers have dampening adjustments and are they any good?

The feedback they receive from new buyers is that the very lowest frequency experience has been diminished with the newer subwoofers because they’re too tight.
 

Some subwoofers on the market allow you to alter the dampening factor - Rythmik’s subs for example.

@joenies: The Janis W1! Man, that takes me back! That sub was popular with QUAD ESL and KLH 9 owners in the 1960's. Gordon Holt reviewed ’em in Stereophile in the early-70’s iirc. A classic!

Beginning with two DIY JBL 4530 sub-bass horns, Ray Dones Octavium, Jonas Miller and Ken Kreisel's Volkswoofer, Bag End, EarthQuake Sound and David Hall's Velodyne from ULD to DD Plus, I've found the evolution of the mechanical and processing 'stuff' amazing. 

Duke LeeJeune's AudioKinesis' four cabinet Swarm, a simple and affordable bass mode eliminating system has brought room lock satisfaction to many.

In professional reinforcement Cerwin-Vega, Meyer Sound and Danley Sound labs have made some phenomenal strides in reducing size and distortion. 

As a working Bassist my 360/361 and 8-10 trunks haven't left the house in decades. I carry my fiddle under one arm and a 10" upshot and AI Focus amp in a back pack. 

Bass has been berry berry good to me...

Greetings 

I purchased a pair of Janis W1 subwoofer’s in 1982. I still use them in my main system. They are intended for music only, not for HT. To my ears they sound wonderful. The subs are passive so I provide a separate amp and external crossover for them.
I have read many post about the newer powered subs having issues with the built in power amps. 
Joe Nies