Many ways to take this conversation.
1) I have been guilty of the "If it sounds different from what I have now, it must be wrong". Especially when I listen to one system for a very long time. The brain eq’s and compensates to adapt to the current system. Assuming you like it and not wanting to change out of boredom, a new system will sound worse.
2) I have a method to avoid the "break-in paradigm" and keep things in the "first impression" phase. When I get a new component, I will listen the heck out of it, maybe compare to what I currently use, for a day and then put it away for a week or two. If break-in is a concern, I will let it play during that time but not listen to it.
So I have a week or two to let the component physically break in and also mull over what I heard. Maybe think of some other music to try to test it out better.
When I put it in a week or two later, I will see if the sound compares to what I remember and how I like it compared to what I currently use.
As an aside, I will often not listen to my stereo AT ALL for that week. Only listening to natural sounds and live un-amplified music. So my ears aren’t **&(*ed up with this "hi-end crap", haha, and I can go in fresh.
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@rvpiano . Hey L.I. buddy, I hope life is treating you well, as well as can be expected. Turning 71 soon, and I have to say, my ears still are quite youthful (thank goodness). I talk to my good friend from N.J. on our cells, I’m in FL., and I easily hear when he gets out of his car, and into his house, or vice versa. The listening space is easily heard by me, and I always shout it out to him. "Your in the house now"...and he is always blown away, because it never happens with him, and he has good ears. Enough about that. Listening passively vs. a preamp (with gain), are very different in what they do. I go back and forth between my Luminous Audio passive unit but use a preamp or two when I am running my Rawson DIY F4, which needs gain. During this time, when I connect another power amp (of so many) with the preamp being in the loop, the sq is great, but little details are lost. With the preamp, there is a "jump" factor that is not there with the passive. I am a dynamics freak, but I am not talking about dynamics here. Another word that describes what I am talking about. Overhead, maybe. Both are enjoyable, but I mainly use my preamps for when I am enjoying the characteristics (or lack of) of the F4. BTW, there are sq differences is passive units, and I love my Luminous. Can you describe what you are and/or not hearing? Always, MrD.
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Glad to hear you are getting used to it. Likely getting your preamp will be a real treat when returned.
Good question you pose, of perspective and time. Until about twenty five years ago, I would say my perception was pretty relative. What sounded good, was based on what I heard. There were systems that sounded better... typically based how many details, how much bass, the width and depth of the soundstage. But I think my perception over time could be influenced by exposure and time.
Then I went out to hear what real music sounded like. Specifically to develop an absolute measure... yardstick. For over twenty years I steeped myself in live acoustic music specifically develop an absolute measure against which to judge my system and system choices.
I will say that my perception will vary a little... but during that time I also assembled my system to sound like the real thing... so that the absolute is reinforced. So, while I am sure my perception of "good sounding" varies a little... probably not a lot.
I’m pretty sure lots of folks simply wonder around in solution space just comparing one system versus another and in that case lots of drift is likely... I think.
Just a stab at it.
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There are many ways to sound “good”. You never know until you try.
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@mrdecibel
Hi! I hope all is going well with you too.
To answer your question: Without the preamp most everything sounds very good, but is missing something. That something is the high frequencies and, to an extent, soundstaging. And, on some things I think it actually sounds a little better that way. With most things though it lacks a certain presence and excitement.
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I agree with @ghdprentice that live music should be your benchmark. Acoustic instruments and voices are the touchstone. I don't really compare components to each other but rather listen for how "real" it sounds in my system. A lot of gear can sound impressive but over time seem artificial in some way.
When I make changes I use music with singers I've heard live. I have an enduring sense of how their voice expressed emotion and I listen for that.
I do experience getting "used to" a certain sound and liking it, but that's because it corresponds to my expectations for sounding real. If it doesn't sound that way, I don't get used to it, I get annoyed by it.
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Impeccable timing. Had long meant to pull my old Rega Cursa pre out of of the chain - as my Shanling tube power amp has adjustable volume. Mac Air, DDC, I2S to Pegasus to Shanling to MG 1.7s. Finally got to it last night and after a disappointing evening have put it back as it was. What I heard immediately and unmistakingly: the 'sidewise spread' of the sound narrowed entirely between the speakers. I didn't notice anything front to back but in truth the impact of the narrower soundstage was enough that it wasn't even on my radar. Secondly, the detail down to quiet was gone. Actually gone. As best as I can figure - detail was less overall and just highly noticeable when a note or voice was tailing off to silence. The soundfloor was dark and noiseless. Some of my very well recorded/produced pieces still sounded impactful. Sharper even. But no sparkle. Kind of unremarkable. Not what I expected at all. I figured pulling the pre out if anything would allow more detail to come through, esp as the Rega is older and not state of the art by any means. Contrast to how my system sounds with it in...? Well recorded music is simply astonishing. Seal. Rhianna. Adele. Isaak. New Shins. Many others. Average music doesn't get as much play as in comparison sounds 'nice' but not remarkable. Poorly recorded music sound terrible. So my system is clearly rewarding tracks and mixes that are well laid down - to the extremes.
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@OP. The best test is when you reinstall your preamp. Perhaps your preamp has been limiting the sound of your system so the system actually does sound better without it. Or when you reinstall the preamp, maybe the sound will be better than with no preamp.
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A good preamp is far better then without one especially if it has a substantial power supplies for dynamics soundstage stability and imaging under Loud dynamic swings ,also having a very good resistive ladder volume control and relays
night and day better then those low quality Alps,or Bourn volume pots for low level detail and micro dynamics . There are no short cuts to getting the most out of your Audio system.
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@audioman58
There are no short cuts to getting the most out of your Audio system.
Amen
There are no $hort cuts to getting the mo$t out of your Audio $ystem.
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@rvpiano ...I've been running 'pre-less' for years running sources to a matrix that loops in a ss 32 band eq with a parametric bands....does the room eq to flat.
Tweak to taste and amp it.....
Got gifted with a nice pre, but looping it into the maze will Be Amazing.... Haven't owned one since '90...this one, more in/outs than a subway station... *L*
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@audioman58 .....I try to knock 2 out of those 3.....spend those on the not-so delightful stuff 'cept foodstuffs and exotica... ;)
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My exotic and expensive Schiit preamp (cost nearly a thousand dollars!) has a "passive" setting so you can instantly hear it not doing much. I know it's expensive but totally worth it...
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I went pre amp less when I was breaking in new XOs on my MG 1.7i s so it could stream 24/7. DAC, ipad, and Qobuz have volume controls. It did sound quite good. Not sure if better or worse.
I agree that sometimes our ears can just get use to our systems with or without some changes.
Im hooked on my old Carver C4000 pre amp with it's many functions. I always liked pushing buttons and turning knobs, lol. Im always tweaking eq due to such a range of recordings. Some need highs attenuated or boosted. Same for lows. Has 40hz loudness boost, peak unlimiter, etc. My favorite feature is the classic Bob Carver Sonic Holography. It really opens up sound stage.
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Well, after waiting two months for service my CJ is finally repaired. However, on the way home I dropped it on the ground (from not too high) bringing it into the house. I called the technician who said if probably won’t have damaged it. I checked the tubes and they were intact. I won’t be able to hear it until tomorrow night when the installer will do the job.
Keeping my fingers crossed.
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The CJ is finally back in the system and the difference is wonderful. All of the harmonics are now in place, and the highs are extant and very sweet. Soundstage is back to being huge.
AT LAST!
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Good for you. Enjoy! My best, MrD.
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A great end result! Glad everything worked out so well.
By the way, I may have missed it, what was causing your problem with the preamp?
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I turned the preamp on one day and all I got was a low tone emanating from the speakers.
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RV, sorry, my question was not worded correctly. I was curious what was the component of your preamp that had to be replaced that caused your preamp to not work correctly?
Not my business anyway, just curiosity and again glad you are back up and running.
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Jetter,
I have to confess, I wasn’t really listening to the technician when he told me what was wrong. I was so happy to get it back. It went right over my head. Sufficed to say he did a real overhaul of the unit. Sorry I can’t provide more information. Maybe I’ll call and find out, and get back to you.
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RV,
Please don't bother, I am not electronics savvy and wouldn't understand anyway. Sounds like you are good to go for years ahead. Again, just glad everything worked out well.
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Now that I’m listening for a couple of days I notice the analogue side is sounding better than the digital. The digital has lost some of its fullness. Maybe it’s a matter of preamp break-in.
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In 2016, I sold my phono gear and my record collection. Admittedly, the sq of vinyl was much more enjoyable to me, but the inconvenience of vinyl was simply too much for me, at least, at that time. RV, I completely understand what you are saying. I wish you well.....ENJOY! Always, MrD.
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Well, I just blasted some digital organ music at full volume and that seems to have helped break-in.
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Looking forward to seeing which you prefer, passive pre or CJ active.
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cdc
Although the passive is “safer,” meaning that it is consistent, with no extramusical, harsh sounds, it’s also lacking in highs, sound staging and realism. It sounds surprisingly good but not as pleasurable as the CJ active which has all of the above.
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I stated above that I really enjoy my Luminous passive. Recently, I purchased an umbilical cable from Brad at Revelation Audio Labs for my preamp (I talk about it elsewhere here at the ’Gon), to go between it and the external power supply. I am now, after 2 plus weeks of the cable breaking in, I am now a convert. I am really enjoying the preamp, as I am finding the additional gain beneficial. Not just with my Rawson DIY Pass F4, which needs gain, but with most of my other power amps (excluding my Nuforce STA200, which is still preferable with the Luminous.....as it is very high gain). My best, MrD.
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Analog continues to be more remarkable than digital now that the CJ has been overhauled. Although both sound great.
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The CJ preamp seems to have fully broken in.
The set sounds better (really fantastic) than it did before the breakdown.
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