No one actually knows how to lculate what speaker cable they need
It goes back to cable manufaturars, mostly provide no relevant data! to sales and the users. None will answer this! Whay do you think that you own now the optimal cable to your setup? I think I've figured it out.
Sorry for your long post. I know it is hard to accept when someone claim such a thing. I had asked this question, of what shall be the right speaker cable for long and never been answered properly. So I took things in my own hand and figured it out. When that happened, I realized how much the industry leaks knowledge on the subject. I never said that the people in this industry are not smart or gifted. I only say that none put the effort to find out the truth over this subject. It is most likely, that if they would, they might come out with something. But so far, they didn’t.
I would expect that you prove me wrong by bringing up someone (from the industry) that has the knowhow. From that long list of smart people, you proclaim from the industry, you can’t point at one who has the solution. You don’t for a reason. So you don’t have even one to prove me wrong. On the other hand, those testimonies prove me right. The more will do it and share, the better. At the same time, the cable market is not doing any good to this disturbing question either: What is the right cable for me?
Even thou you put it a bit awkward I am not shamed but proud of it. I am sure that if you would do this discovery, you might have been proud too. I am even more proud I could help already some to get a way better sound with their DIY cable. You have no idea, what those testimonies mean to me. With a little help, people all over, in the US, Canada and the UK did it and they are happy. I’ll remind you that it is all for free.
grannyring & geoff: He has 3 people that have tried and approved of his design & theory. After many posts and thousands of words posted over less than a month, the OP has the proof, no doubt and all other cable companies are bunk. It is now fact, end of arguement. I would not be surprised that ofter a few weeks, the three that engaged in the test, will have different speaker cable in their systems.
b4icu No speaker’s cable maker, have a tiniest clue of what cable we need. They also do not know why one cable sounds better over the other. They have no idea what are the electrical (engineering) values that make one cable better over another. An absolute groping in the darkness. For that reason, they "invented" a lot of preposterous pleas to cover the misunderstanding and ignorance: directional cables, cryogenic treatment, cooper purity, skin effect, burn in and more. None would hold a scientific confirmation or any evidence. No other field using wires got such an attention. From NASA and space programs, to the highest level of airborne and military equipment, life saving medical equipment or cell phones. Only audio cables did.
>>>>>>>What a drama queen! In the first place you act as though all cable manufacturers are colluding or choreographing some sort of conspiracy designed to trick young naive audiophiles. But that is far from the truth since cable manufactures - in reality, not your paranoid fantasy - tend to develop and evolve their own theories and manufacturing processes over a long period of time based on their own experience. They rarely agree with each other. Many cable makers employ cryogenics, but some don’t. Most cable makers probably don’t control directionality. And there are many differences in purity and type of metal conductor among and within cable makers. You appear to be, judging by your own words, the poster child for anti audiophile naysayers.
Further, there is no requirement for “scientific confirmation,” as you call it. The most obvious mistake in your reasoning is that audio is the only field that is interested in how cables sound. capish? So you can throw out all the other things, military, NASA, hospitals, whatever. Follow? If you told the military or NASA they must use uber thick cables as you suggest they would laugh you out of the office.
Let me share a thought with you. When anyone starts saying no one else in an entire industry has a clue, but he and he alone, then that person has lost all credibility. It is not reasonable or logical to suggest that you alone possess the knowledge and integrity needed for correct speaker cable design. You are saying only you have that knowledge and integrity. Only you!
That is a remarkable thought and perhaps so remarkable as to expose your personal shortcoming. We all have shortcomings and yours has just been exposed more clearly than ever before in this thread. You must see the absurdity in your proclamation that you alone have the needed integrity and wisdom? I hope you can see and own it. A measure of humility would go a long way here.
This industry has many brilliant minds. Yes, many who hold advanced degrees, have personal integrity and a sincere passion for extracting the best sound possible from a stereo system. You are not the sole person with such a resume and righteous motive.
You seem like like a smart and well educated man. In an audio world full of ideas I and others are opened minded enough to consider and try out your idea. That has not changed for me. However what has changed for me is my assessment of your wisdom and perhaps grip on reality.
I'll try to describe the current state of the speaker's cable industry.
After all, if we want to know where we are heading, we need to know from where
we are coming…
No speaker's cable maker, have a tiniest clue of what cable we need.
They also do not know why one cable sounds better over the other. They have no
idea what are the electrical (engineering) values that make one cable better
over another. An absolute groping in the darkness. For that reason, they
"invented" a lot of preposterous pleas to cover the misunderstanding
and ignorance: directional cables, cryogenic treatment, cooper purity, skin
effect, burn in and more. None would hold a scientific confirmation or
any evidence. No other field using wires got such an attention. From
NASA and space programs, to the highest level of airborne and military equipment,
life saving medical equipment or cell phones. Only audio cables did.
Most speaker cables are made thin (12-14 AWG) because it is easy to use
with spades and banana plugs that are common in the market. They won't go thinner,
as it would be ridicules but they won't go thicker as it is difficult to do. So
we ended up with an average 12-14 AWG, regardless of what we actually need.
At the same time, speaker cables (unfortunately also other cables) were
priced absurdly high. As this is the holy grail of the audio industry. I
must admit that marketing went well and the industry flourishes. A ridiculous
situation with poor consequences.
Now comes the worst part, after understanding that the speaker cable
makers were fooling us since dome of days. A speaker cable is actually crucial
for a good sound. A poor cable can ruin it and it really does. At a time the cable
makers were title their product as High End, they were practically destroying a
good sound system that could sound terrific, with a "so wrong" cable
that would prevent up to 50%-80% of its potential. If they call a cable that
kills 50%-80% of the sound a high end cable, what should they call a cable that
delivers the absolute 100%?
Unfortunately it is not their cable, so you have seen some of those say
on previous posts. Such words, are shallow and do not tells you the truth. They
only cover over a mediocre or bad product wrapped with pretentious
words.
To show you the difference, between a ready purchased, reputed cable
maker cable and a cable that is DIY (less complete in structure) but of the
right electrical properties, here are two testimonies:
Mr. Wilson, who exchanged a
Transparent Audio Laboratory 14 AWG 12 feet long cable, that costs About $250,
with a 0 AWG 2.5m long cable:
"My initial impressions: It’s
like having new speakers. The sound is pure and clean. Minute details are
suddenly apparent. The range is amazing. Highs, mid-tones and a new bass that I
didn’t know my speakers were capable of. I wonder now what I need the new …
subwoofer for!
It feels that for all these years my
speakers were being chocked and suddenly they can breathe and have their full
voice.
To say I’m happy about my new speaker cables is an understatement. I’m
thrilled. Thank you for building these superbly engineered cables to unleash
the full potential of my home sound system".
Mr. keppertup
who replaced a 16 AWG 1.5n long cable with a 0 AWG cable of the same length,
that cost him $57.00 ($45 plus shipping):
"The results are stunning. The amount of undistorted energy
filling the room, is jaw dropping. I keep turning up the volume to levels
that previously irritated my ears, and experience no irritation. In the
modified lyrics of B.B. King, “The shrill is gone.” My wife is hearing
new detail in cuts she has listened to many times before".
No other components or placement
were involved, only one speaker cable over the other. This kind of testimony reflects
my say of a maker so called "Hi End" speaker cable, replaced with an unlabeled
cable that delivers 100% and not only 20% or 50%. I would grade those testimonies
as 10/10.
This may not be that
dramatic to all. If those testimonies were on the upper side of the scale, Mr. conradnash
had a experience like 7/10. Not bad at all for that kind of investment.
I look at it, as I'm
holding in my left hand, the speaker cables industry, with all that history and
tell and my theory and cables made accordingly in my right hand. This is a clue
of where we are heading, and from where we are coming.
Thanks. For an educated summery and for bringing this thread back to a
civilized conversation. This mod wrestling with the industry hidden
representative is so wrong.
I try to avoid a "one cable solution for all" as it is not the
right engineering approach. Even your 2-3-4 suggestion is not proper. A 4m long
cable must be of the double the cross section of a 2m long, to keep the same
resistance. On the gauge table it is like going from 1 AWG to 5 AWG! The 2m
would be a 3 AWG etc'. For those who cannot do with a short cable, and they
must use a long one, the cable will get thicker. It easily can get as thick as
4x 0 AWG at some lengths.
I said loud and clear that the cable resistance is up to the amplifier
(some speakers might be different, but most apply to the say: No matter what
speaker you are using!). Different amplifiers would imply different cables
thickness, even if we stick to a short 2.5m length.
Tube amplifiers have such a low DF that a home phone cords would do. As
the DF rise, so gets the cable thicker (lower the AWG). When DF is 150 the
cable you need is different than when the DF is 500 or even higher.
Some D class amplification, have extremely high DFs to exceed 5000! The more
practical way to relate that (by the Amp designer help) is to say the actual DF
is 1000. Still a relatively very high figure.
I'm not sure that the DIY is a solution for everyone. My friend in
Vancouver, even I've told him everything he needed, he asked me to make him the
cable. He was willing to pay me for the expanses and labor. I charged him only for
my expanses.
I will repeat that it is difficult to work with such thick cables. I've
been in that movie. My embracing for all cable's ending is a banana plugs.
Spades are not as good, and so is the bare wire (not practical for an 8 AWG or
thicker). I'm aware that some binding posts cannot have banana plugs!
The way to go from a 0 AWG cable to a banana plug, is with a short wire
that will fit the banana plug and then to connect it to the thick cable. This
wire shall be as thick as possible and so as short. It shall still have some
length to enable the cable's strain relief. A 0 AWG cable is stiff. It is recommended
to use a crimping method and not soldering. The entire end shall be protected
and isolated with some shrinking sleeve. The cable must be reliable and last
long. It also must be safe to use and never risk your equipment.
I do not think that the cable or the banana plug needs to be expensive
or get into the definition of hi-end. This say piss's me off, as the 12-14 AWG ordinary
cables on the market, are practically limiting a good sound system by 50%-80%. They
still sold for a lot and called hi-end. A bit awkward. What wouldn't the maker
say to get it sold for more $. I'd found that some materials are better to work
with over others and do the job as well or better. So I gave up the obsession on
the say and criticism, over practicality and good compliance to the
engineering requirements.
So far, I didn't say much over the DIY solutions that some members of
this forum came up with. They were creative and their cables do the job. They
also ended up with extremely low cost. They might have some reliability problems
on the long run. How your presidents say: "We will see. Something will happen".
I assume that the average sound systems involved were of $10,000 range. A $60
cable cost is respectably amazingly low. From the comments of the difference in
sound, the VFM is outstanding. You know the audio market. No one can upgrade
that much a $10,000.- system for a $60.- investment. The only way to get better
than that (VFM) is to place better the speakers. But that is a shame on who
didn't done that already (-: Another way is to drink a nice glass of wine (-:
I have been following this thread and accepted your reluctance to reveal the formula you have.
However, looking at responses and recommendations, I noticed some patterns and came up with a few conclusions.
Getting a thicker cable than necessary minimum may not improve the sound, but will not be detrimental either. It will be more expensive because thicker cables tend to be so.
Cables that posters who reported improvement following your recommendations used are, overall, quite affordable when talking about audio equipment. Altogether, $100-200 for runs of a few meters. Definitely much cheaper than "real" audio cables.
Your recommendations seem to be, in most cases, limited to, at largest, 0 AWG. That seems to be enough for most of the users, unless they are running 20 meters of cable which many are probably not.
Is it safe to assume that most of the users who are using maybe 2-3-4 meter cables and are not concerned about the difference of a $50-100 between minimally necessary (let's say AWG 4) and AWG 0 would be sufficiently served by simply buying AWG 0? That would eliminate your formula and need to bother you with calculations while giving some inexpensive window where thickness is enough, if not more than enough.
One of the posters published pictures of his new cable. It is quite thick (I forgot actual numbers) and has much thinner and very short one embedded at the end with that thinner one being attached to a banana which then goes in the amplifier. If there is a need for a very thick cable, does this thinner piece negate the benefits of all the thickness before it?
If my assumptions are correct, for most of the posters, the actual focus would need to shift on technical aspect of constructing a usable cable rather than on how thick the cable should be. AWG 0 would suffice in most cases and would not cost too much. More difficult question would be how to connect to speakers and amplifier.
All who made this DIY and shared got a 0 AWG. Some recommendations were for 4 AWG.
But for some, who insisted of longer cables because a fire place or the management, or one guy who approached me on the private messages that had an exceptional amplifier,
because of that needed more than 0 AWG.
If I would be a cable's dealer of a maker who have non 0 AWG on its line, I would state the same!
Speaker
cables are wires to connect between your speakers and amplifier. They should be
of a specific resistance that mostly depends on the Amplifiers and speakers specifications
and the required length. Unfortunately, no cable maker is kind enough to tell
you what right cable is for you, using an engineering method. They mostly tell
you of some properties, like directional wire, cryo treatment, burn in process
and more. All this has nothing to do with the subject but an elegant excuse to
charge a lot for it.
As
for my method (calculated) cables, some are getting really thick. Cable brands
charge for that kind of cables (0 AWG and thicker) an arm and a leg. This is
why it is best to keep those cables as short as possible. Sometimes two mono blocks
would cost you less than a set of long and thick speaker cable. For every time
you double the length of a cable, you need to double its cross section too.
DIY
is up to you. Find your materials, put them together by yourself and you are
ready to go. Some who did it here ended up under $60 for a set. Do they look as
nice as a readymade cable that you buy? No. Do they do the job? Yes. VFM:
excellent and beyond!
By reading
their sharing, they absolutely do. It was on spot from the first try. One guy
already spent in the past as much as $2,000 on a single cable, and way more on
multiple cables and none was as good as the one he made by my recommendation.
His sharing is absolutely amazing.
Not
all have the skills or are handy to get along with such a project. It is not easy
to work with thick cables. When you need cables thicker than 0 AWG, as 2x 0 AWG
or 4x 0AWG, no one I know about, can do that. I can. I developed a way of
getting there…It involves ordering special made CNC parts of cooper bars and
more.
Tell
me what equipment you have and I can calculate for you the cable that would
serve you best.
B4icu, I am trying to learn about cables, including yours. I have virtually no knowledge of cable technology at all, and have been reading on this subject for only a few days now, including your post. So let me ask you what is hopefully not a stupid question about your DIY speaker cables to follow up on the information you provided to me up-thread on how to fabricate them for my new system.
Do you think your DIY cables would be comparable in performance to some of the more reputable cable brands that cost $1000, or more for a pair of 2-3 meter lengths, or would your’s be most modest in aspiration?. I am shocked at these high prices and would love to find a reasonably priced alternative that would provide the same performance quality as the expensive ones. The purpose being to allow the best possible performance of my new Magico A3’s when they arrive.
Thank you for your advice. I am not trying to put you on the spot or be rude, only to try to learn, so I can make a good decisions on cable purchases. Thank you for considering my question.
On the other hand, I wrote that you are from the cables industry and you
never denied.
So, that’s an admit!
It's nothing wrong with being one of them, as long as you state it with
your name, for all to know, but you don't! That’s wrong. It is obvious you are caring
their message and care for
them.
They have no idea about speaker cables. They provide cables to all,
without having any knowledge of what is the cable each of us need. No
calculations, no science, no engineering, nada. Only urban myths they created
to cover their unfortunate ignorance. This is about "your" truth.
As you stated, in your own words, the rest are lies and you are a king
of lies.
Look at those who already made the recommended cables. They spent money
before on cables that didn't deliver. Some shared of many thousands spent and
not being happy with the result! Now, at first attempts, with my help – it is on
spot!
It would make more sense if the cable industry would be able to do so
and not a b4icu guy from Israel, first time on this forum. Unfortunately, the
cables industry been established a reality you try to protect and support, that
is taking advantage of the audio clients. As you are part of that industry, it
is clear and understood from where your endless effort and perseverance is coming
from.
b4icu - I’m not accusing you of lying. I’m accusing you of being misinformed. It’s not your fault. You don’t know what you don’t know. It’s no big deal.
Whom are you representing? Most cable manufacturers have no idea what
they are doing. They spread the message of unproved crap: Directionality, copper
purity, cryo treatment, or burn in. Some even add some box with passive components
on the cable.
I had this Sun. a job interview at RAFAEL. They asked for a phenomena of
a system they showed me the schematics, that got a problem of oscillating and under
voltage. I asked for the distance from the power supply and how thick were the
wires? I nailed it. It was way less than 160 ft. Your 160 ft cable shows that
you have no idea what a speaker's cable roll in a sound system. However, you do
sound as the average ignorant Joe that sales them.
Gasbaggery aside, although in this thread it would render the page virtually empty, most high end cable manufacturers make worthwhile products in gauges that are apt for nearly anything, and unless you need to run 160 feet of wire for some reason you likely need not worry about the inane minutiae proffered here. Directionality has been noted on cables for decades, ditto the understanding of copper purity, and mind numbing exclamations using obscure factoids by hand wringing self appointed "expert" worriers, offering non-issue issues for others to pontificate (or rant) about, simply harsh the mellow of the party. Buy cables from reputable companies, plug 'em in, and try to think about the music instead of musings from thin skinned geeks.
I am King of Lies and King of Truth. I did not bring up burn-in. You did. I brought up directionality and cryogenics. You may carry on with your Inquisition.
The
cables prices do not reflect the elements prices of the crud market. You know
and all know that they are price is irrelevant of the material cost they are
made of. You have a tendency to twist everything in your favor, regardless of
what the truth is. It may show who you are and what your priorities are. Still,
none have to do with my thread. So far the prove of two dear members who posted
their share is on my side. I have one more of a friend from Vancouver BC. (Was
posted at an early stage of this thread). More will follow soon. What is it you
have on your side? Pickles (sour) posts. The Burn was your issue. You brought
it up. I condemned it from the beginning. It is mostly relevant to equipment
and systems never over a wire. Your support over the other thread on the
subject is clear. You also hold about 50% of the 756 posts of that thread, even
thou it's not yours.
For your info, b4icu, I’m not one of those runny nose, naive, gullible teenagers you’re trying so hard to protect. As far as the relative costs of silver and copper cables your facts seem to be as screwy as always. Maybe your calculator is broken, who knows? As far as MIL Standards go, they are irrelevant to the discussion and can be ignored. But you get an A for name dropping.
Yes, silver is by 5.4% better than cooper. But the cost...Mr. geoffkait,
the cost. Is 94 times higher. You can add 6% to the cross section and save the
cost of silver.
For the rest, as you are not responding to my questions, I'll take the
liberty to do the same.
I'll do answer myself regarding Burn In (BI)
In the military and airborne industry, regarding reliability the
attitude is serious. As so, they came out with MIL-STD-785B, MILITARY STANDARD:
RELIABILITY PROGRAM FOR SYSTEMS AND EQUIPMENT DEVELOPMENT AND PRODUCTION
and MIL-HDBK-217F, MILITARY HANDBOOK:
RELIABILITY PREDICTION OF ELECTRONIC EQUIPMENT.
The theory (I'll save you from reading all of it), is that a LRU (line replaceable
unit) has a life cycle and a life span. Most of its failures accrue during its childhood
and at the end of its days. A BI process (mandatory!) is done on each unit
(100% of all batches), in which the units are entered into a temperature chamber
that has a bottom vibration plate for 10 cycles. Those cycles are calculated as
the MIL STD requires, and their cycle's length and durations are set. By the
end of this BI process, the LRU is over its childhood and starts its failure
free life cycle.
At the same time the BI also surface craftsmanship and components with
poor margins. At an event of a failure, an analysis is conducted and the data
is accumulated. Pattern failures will surface engineering or reliability issues
if any. During the process, the LRU is turned off at extreme cold (-54 Deg. C)
and turned on at -40C. After some time at -40, it will climb to +55 or +70C for
a longer period of time. During all that the LRU is "ON" and runs a
BI test loop.
So how is that relevant to a speaker cable? As the LRU is not performing
any better at the end of the BI process, nether is a cable. BI is not about
performance. It is about reliability.
No one, even in the military and airborne industry ever do reliability
predictions or reliability verification for single wire. Also the MIL STDs
don't require it (it is required only for: SYSTEMS AND EQUIPMENT and ELECTRONIC
EQUIPMENT, as the MIL STD specifies).
The swindler part of the audio industry and sales borrowed this say to
get things working for them. When a guy gets an expensive cable or is
demonstrated with one, to be convinced to buy it, and the impression from
hearing cession, doesn't cut the deal, The BI comes to their help. It will buy
them time to send a full customer home with that item, waist its time (as
really nothing changes in the physical level, it remains the same cooper wire
with the same properties as before the BI), and the deal is sealed. Don't be
full and don't fall into this scheme. Another way to call it, is a full's story
over a bad product. An excellent deal for the sales man, but not a good deal
for you. Never buy the BI story. Don't be full.
conradnash I went with Van Dam cable as that’s offered by Mark Grant Cables, a well known and well respected cable maker (in the UK at least).
its also the cables they use in Abbey Road studios, who also happen to use classe amps and B&W speakers.
>>>>One can only hope Abbey Road studios doesn’t employ Van Damme Blue cables in the recording chain. 😀 One can’t help wondering if Abbey Road is cognizant of cable burn in. Probably not. Nevermind.
Your first par. refers to the burn-in (BI) process without calling it by that specific name.
Burn in to a cooper cables!
I’ll ask you again (asked you already on the BI thread, you avoid from answering with your perfect manners):
What is a burn in?
How long does it takes?
When is it required and why?
Your second par. You do a statement, as you are the absolute authority to define what cable is hi-fi, hi-end or extra-hi-end, and what cable is not (trash cable). You are actually bringing here the lord’s word on cables grading. You are the messenger. If you would understand the original old testimony it its original language (Hebrew) you would know that the miss translated word "Angle" to English is "Messenger" in Hebrew. From your extensive postings on my thread and other’s threads, you are none of the two for sure.
Just kindly remind you, that cooper as an element has fixed (k) conductivity (ρ). It is 1.68x10-8. Or 1.59x10-8 for Silver and it is only 5.3% better than cooper (I know this will make your day…).
A wire (cable) has a resistance (R cable) that is: R = ρ x L/S
L is the lengths in meters and S is the cross section in mm^2
I assume that your judgmental approach is based on the cables isolator look, the color and a scale of reputation given by the firm that you are doing all this for.
Your Third par. You go into some lyrics about the sound. The sound of music…That is fascinating observation, that all the sudden you can tell what someone’s system sound’s, in someone’s room you never heard with any cable, of what it sounds like now with a blue colored thick cable, in incredible detail.
I’m impressed Mr. geoffkait from your lyrics, but I don’t like the tune, the rendition. You’ve got my attention and I got suspicious. For the amount of time and effort you put into your crusade, you must have a motive and maybe a sponsor.
>>>>>A few comments. One, the numbers you give for copper and silver are actually their respective resistance, not conductivity. Thus, the resistance for copper is higher than for silver. From what I gather from the review of the Van Damm Blue cables they are very average in terms of sound quality. Almost ANY cable compared to them would seem fantastic. Lastly, I included the cable burn in comments by the reviewer to suggest that unless the Van Damm cables were properly burned in they would sound even worse than if they were.
Yes, I know the difference between crap sounding cables and high end cables. I doubt that you do, however.
I replaced like for like in terms of length (so 2 x 2.5m was replaced with 2 x 2.5m). The cost of the new cables was £130 ($170) for a stereo pair of 5 m.
I went with Van Dam cable as that’s offered by Mark Grant Cables, a well known and well respected cable maker (in the UK at least).
its also the cables they use in Abbey Road studios, who also happen to use classe amps and B&W speakers.
when I got the amp I spoke with Classe about the best implementation (bi-wire, bi-amp, cables, etc) and their response was: single channel on the amp for each speaker, balanced cables on longer runs, and the van damme cable would be fine.
finally, there’s plenty of user reviews comparing VDB to audioquest, chord etc, some preferring the VD and some not.
Either way, b4icu said he’d recommend a cable that would give me an improvement. I tried it, it did. I don’t see the problem.
Your first par. refers to the
burn-in (BI) process without calling it by that specific name.
Burn in to a cooper cables!
I'll ask you again (asked you already
on the BI thread, you avoid from answering with your perfect manners):
What is a burn in?
How long does it takes?
When is it required and why?
Your second par. You do a statement,
as you are the absolute authority to define what cable is hi-fi, hi-end or
extra-hi-end, and what cable is not (trash cable). You are actually bringing
here the lord's word on cables grading. You
are the messenger. If you would understand the original old testimony it its
original language (Hebrew) you would know that the miss translated word "Angle"
to English is "Messenger" in Hebrew. From your extensive postings on
my thread and other's threads, you are none of the two for sure.
Just kindly remind you, that cooper
as an element has fixed (k) conductivity (ρ). It is 1.68x10-8. Or 1.59x10-8 for Silver
and it is only 5.3% better than cooper (I know this will make your day…).
A wire (cable) has a resistance (R
cable) that is: R = ρ x L/S
L is the lengths in meters and S is
the cross section in mm^2
I assume that your judgmental approach
is based on the cables isolator look, the color and a scale of reputation given
by the firm that you are doing all this for.
Your Third par. You go into some lyrics
about the sound. The sound of music…That is fascinating observation, that all the sudden
you can tell what someone's system sound's, in someone's room you never heard
with any cable, of what it sounds like now with a blue colored thick cable, in incredible
detail.
I'm impressed Mr. geoffkait from your lyrics, but I don't like
the tune, the rendition. You've got my attention and I got suspicious.
For the amount of time and effort you put into your crusade, you must have a
motive and maybe a sponsor.
Rather quickly this review of the Van Damm Blue speaker cables popped up in my search. Interesting, no? Apparently anything would sound more transparent than Van Damme Blue cables. Perhaps even coat hangers.
(Everything is relative. - Albert Einstein)
“Sound (Blue series cable) Taking into account this cable was deemed to be unused and fresh off the reel, it required some running in to let it settle down. It VAnDamétook what seemed to be an exceptional length of time to become listen-able so I would advise new owners to be a little bit patient when first installed and not to make hasty judgments at first hearing.
Given that the Blue is not considered to be a “hi-fi” cable in a domestic setting and aimed more at being a rugged studio workhorse, it was evident from the sound that refinement is not at the top of this cable’s priorities. I wish I could point out to you where exactly its strengths and weaknesses lie, because one CD track where I was listening to it would sound fine, another less so and variations in between, so I will try and pick out the reliable consistencies that I experienced.
Midrange was certainly congested sounding, with female vocals having a lack of air and grace that I know is there in the recording. Treble had a slightly steely edge that was prevalent with cymbals in particular, while bass didn’t have the rich fullness that a cable of this diameter should be delivering with ease in my opinion. It is a listen-able cable nonetheless and I wouldn’t condemn it out of hand as I know there are many folks out there that own and enjoy the sound it makes for them.”
As suspected the forks won't sit in binding posts without an adaptor. I'm currently using banana plugs. Here's an image of the before and after cables: https://imgur.com/a/De0LmuG (credit card for scale).
I hooked them up and there's a definite improvement. The sound is more transparent. I need to listen more but I'm happy with this investment. I'm going to replace the bananas with some bolt on ones: https://uk.farnell.com/staubli/22-1053/banana-plug-50a-4mm-screw-m4/dp/1085560, that'll give me a better connection. The current plugs are on tight, but it'll be nice to get a stronger hold. The stiffness of the cables means that there's actually very little weight on the binding posts as the cables stand up straight from the floor.
Thank you b4icu. As you said to me, where else can I get that level of upgrade for that money.
I'm interested in getting another set for my centre now.
I'm happy you are back. For a little while, everyone was pro and positive,
being busy with their own DIY… I kind of missed the pickles, those who are
going against my idea in all possible way and also trying to get the knowhow
for free.
Why do you think I should give my formula to you and others?
I have a feeling that some of our pickles are planted represents fom firms
or dealers from the cable industry. Having me spreading the idea, without them having
the formula, is a big concern. I can understand that.
So far, I helped all who asked for.
Never said NO!
I Did it for free.
So no one can blame me of anything. Some guys already trying to get themselves
the proposed cable. One already did. I would kindly advice you to read what he
had to say. With some more patients, more will get to the finish line and be
kind to share. I would predict that their new sound will be also way better
than they had before.
The thing is "Big" because the speaker's cable industry kept
you all from accomplish the full potential of your sound system. Systems that
cost in a range of $5,000.- to $250,000.- and from this reason you enjoyed only
a part (sometimes as small as 20%!) of that investment rather than all of it.
As they spent that kind of money, they think that they have a high-end sound.
Well if you read the first sharing on this thread, you may understand what the
sound was before and after he replaced his cables. It reminds me the sharing of
my friend who got a set from me and I posted his impressions. You can connect
the dots. A clear picture will unfold here pretty soon. A beautiful one.
For asking the formula, in some aggressive and ugly ways, I wonder
if you believe this is the right approach to get it? The funny thing is that
all the pickles so far, showed very poor understanding in this subject.
It is all little game and it is harmless. If it helps someone, great. If it does not, so what. It is a little unusual of an approach, but enough people accepted the challenge so it may not be that wrong of an approach after all. Little by little, people started being interested and trying to do what b4icu suggests. It seems that some had success. That is good enough, I think.
b4icu"For your waiting for me to describe this formula, I would kindly advice you don't hold your breath…when you (or other) get in a debate to the stage you cannot answer a point, and you go to bring quotes of others, it's a sign that you went short and out of ideas."
It sounds
like the person who is out of ideas is you because you have a secret formula
and a secret way of computing it and a secret way of supplying the answer and
a secret way of approaching the problem that you have secretly defined and when
asked to explain you say that it is a secret and you demand that others provide
you with a way to prove that your secret approach is wrong but of course they
can’t because with you it is all a secret so why are you posting on this board?
For your waiting for me to describe this formula, I would kindly advice
you don't hold your breath…
Without insulting Mr. John Atkinson, if he would answer
this question already, you wouldn't ask for it from me now.
However, if you think that he can help you out, why you are not asking
him?
You better do, because this is the last time for me to answer you.
When you (or other) get in a debate to the stage you cannot answer a point,
and you go to bring quotes of others, it's a sign that you went short
and out of ideas. As so, you most likely bring to the table a quote you
do not understand. So the bottom line of such a case is you pull your idol into
a debate they never asked for, represented wrongly and badly.
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