No one actually knows how to lculate what speaker cable they need

Been reading this and find it interesting. I would buy a tinned finely stranded pure copper 0 gauge wire which may actually sound great based on my experience with stranded tinned copper wire from Duelund, Western Electric and Supra. Such wire is available using oxygen free pure copper.  Not sure how I would terminate just yet.

I understand completely OP. Just looking generally at this topic.

20 feet long. Must run cables under the house to keep it clean looking per wife. Fireplace in the center. Lyngdorf 2170 and Dali Epicon 6. I make cables and do mods as a part time gig.

The 2170 is not going ever 🙂

Based on your way of thinking, which I don’t agree with totally, I would need thick gauge. I use 7 AWG now.   It comes down to personal preference and listening. However I am always open minded and willing to experiment. You need better conductors than your chosen cable in my opinion. Copper clad aluminum is not as good as I would desire. Thus my post here.

Thanks @b4icu .

I am open to new ideas and do find your ideas interesting. When I say I may disagree I am referring to your chosen cable quality, burn is reality and cryo treatment. Burn in is real and cryo can indeed help the sound. I tend to agree that heavy gauge is usually a plus, not always however. Depends on the rig and listener sonic priorities.

My ears have heard it over and over. That simple. So obvious as to make the truth of it most secure. Your methods do in fact point to much thicker gauge than normally used in nearly every instance. Look at your suggestions here for proof. 3x0 AWG in my system! Oh my!

Yes,  the terminating the 0-3x0AWG conductors will be the challenge in these DIY efforts.  

I like the idea of direct connection much better with high quality connectors. The resulting sound will be better. The idea of splitting the cable into two equal portions and terminating with a spade and banana for direct connection to the binding post is a good option. It reduces the strain on each connector also. The wire link I gave is for very finely stranded copper (thousands) with is very flexible and easier to work with. It is pure copper, not copper clad aluminum which would not sound as good.

I did find 5AWG high end bananas. I would like to try the 3/0 cables the OP suggested based on my 20 foot runs and gear. I may try 0 AWG. Problem is the cost to try is $400. I like the sound of stranded tinned copper wire sold by folks like Duelund, Supra, and Western Electric and always wondered if thicker gauge would sound even better based on my long lengths. There is a source for this as thick as 4/0 AWG. If the bananas were stackable I could split the thick conductor into two equal parts and terminate with stacked bananas or a combo of banana and spade. I have not found a high end 5 AWG spade connector however.

If if anyone finds a spade or banana of good quality, very important, that accepts 4 AWG or thicker let us know.

I am open minded to this and if the cost to try was lower I would do it. I would not use anything other than high purity, oxygen free, stranded tinned copper for this however. The strands need to fine. The connectors also need to be of high quality. As mentioned above, one can split the conductor into two equal parts and terminate with a combo of spade and banana connectors.

Here is a link for the 5 AWG banana connectors. Just scroll down to find them.

https://www.douglasconnection.com/searchquick-submit.sc?keywords=Bananas

Here is a link to the stranded and tinned bulk cable I would use. The maker offers all kinds of gauges. I think they were referred to in another post above. I do not know if the wire used sounds as good as
Duelund, WE, or Supra. The Duelund is cryo treated and that does make a positive sound quality difference. I know the OP has a different opinion. I have done comparisons and not sure if he has. My opinion is based on actual testing and listening. I suppose one could send out this wire to be cryo treated.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0156WDXSM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1NLNJ4Y2QP8Z&psc=1


One last point.  To effectly reduce noise, especially over long runs, one really must twist the positive and negative runs.  Well twisting this thick cable will give you a very thick bundle! Just something to consider. 

Nice choices.  Let us know.  I saw those same spades and they should works nicely. If to big or bulky to fit, then you can buy spade to banana high quality connectors.  

May I ask from who and what did you order? Fully assembled? Can you provide a link and how they will be terminated? Thanks.

Cardas and other quality companies make them.  Here is a very nice one from Cardas. 

http://cardas.com/cab.php

Can someone provide a link for a reasonably priced crimping tool that can handle 1/0 - 3/0 AWG cable termination? Don’t want to spend hundreds.   

Thanks for sharing.  Nice ideas on the terminations.  Love to see pics.  

I may split the cable into two equal portions then both crimp and solder. A good soldering iron would flow solder without too much difficulty and quickly.  I like the termination process of crimp and solder. I would simply stack the two spades at the binding post. Still thinking on this.

@b4icu. My Lyngdorf 2170 does not list the DF spec as you know. You speculated 250. I emailed them and they say the speaker cable’s impedance is much more import and the thus the DF and output impedance are not given for the amp. It is a powered dac. They said the unit has no negative feedback loop and the damping factor is very low. I think the DF is closer to 100. My speakers are Dali Epicon 6s. My cable length is 20 feet and unfortunately this cannot change. Would you still recommend 3/0 AWG. 

Lastly, one side can be 8 feet, but the other has to be 20 feet.  

Let me share a thought with you. When anyone starts saying no one else in an entire industry has a clue, but he and he alone, then that person has lost all credibility. It is not reasonable or logical to suggest that you alone possess the knowledge and integrity needed for correct speaker cable design. You are saying only you have that knowledge and integrity. Only you!

That is a remarkable thought and perhaps so remarkable as to expose your personal shortcoming. We all have shortcomings and yours has just been exposed more clearly than ever before in this thread. You must see the absurdity in your proclamation that you alone have the needed integrity and wisdom? I hope you can see and own it. A measure of humility would go a long way here.

This industry has many brilliant minds. Yes, many who hold advanced degrees, have personal integrity and a sincere passion for extracting the best sound possible from a stereo system. You are not the sole person with such a resume and righteous motive.

You seem like like a smart and well educated man. In an audio world full of ideas I and others are opened minded enough to consider and try out your idea. That has not changed for me. However what has changed for me is my assessment of your wisdom and perhaps grip on reality.

Cardas, AQ, Furutech and others make their own connectors and could easily make a connector to handle up to 0 gauge if they wanted to or felt they needed to. They would love to sell such huge cables and connectors and could charge big bucks for them. They would make even more money. This whole idea of huge gauge, when needed, would be a brand new marketing and sales opportunity for them to capitalize on. The argument suggesting they only make and sell smaller gauge wire and connectors out of nessesity is just plain out of step with the truth. The truth is these companies just don’t buy into this notion based on their own base of knowledge and testing. Are they right? Is the OP right? I think various methods and designs can sound great.

Mapleshade, Michael Green Audio and others passionately believe that the smallest of gauge wire makes for the best sound. Polar opposite of the OP. Just their particular theory and notion.

Thus far we have a couple of examples where the OP style cable sounded better than the prior cable being used. Problem is in two of these cases the original cables were nothing special. In looking at pictures one set had bare copper wire ends that appeared to be completely oxidized and needed to be cut away and re-stripped for better sound.

Looking forward to seeing the OP cables being compared to higher quality, properly built cables that have been well maintained.

I agree with @shadowcat2016 and am planning a build. It is fun for me both as an avid DIYer and cable seller.

No, based on my customers likes and dislikes and areas they want to improve on. They know how their rig sounds and what they want more or less of etc...Many thrilled customers as my feedback testifies to.

I sell lots of ICs and USB cables right now.

There is no blueprint that can handle human preferences and the countless system iterations and room environments that exist. It always comes down to the ears of the customer are our own ears. Always.

@b4icu.  
I voice my cables by ear.  I use what some refer to as “tone” wire and change the gauge, construction and connectors based on what folks want sonically.  I am a custom builder.  I love the sound of Duelund stranded and tinned copper in oil impregnated cotton and use it often. 

I also perform modifications to speaker crossovers and tube gear.  I know what parts sound like based on my long experiece using them and match this knowledge with what the customer is looking for. Yes, I use my ears and known sonic differences between types and brands of wire, caps, resistors, inductors, rectifiers etc....

It is just me making cables out of a spare bedroom driven by a passion to help fellow Aphiles enjoy their systems more fully for reasonable money. Very small part time business that is gratifying.  

Wire alone cannot possibly cure all the ills or preferences of a given system. The right cabling can help directionally get to the end goal.

Even various 0 gauge cabling will sound different based on the cable’s design and materials employed. A tinned finely stranded copper will sound different than un-tinned stranded copper. The gauge of the strands can impact the sound in obvious ways. Copper clad aluminum cabling will sound far different than any cables mentioned above. All these cables will sound different even if they are all 0 gauge. We haven’t even talked about the outer jacket material which also impacts the sound.

@mitch2 and others know this from experience.

You can see my ads here on Agon. I have built several sets of 7 gauge speaker cables. 12 and 10 gauge seem most popular. I am interested in trying thicker gauge and will test over time. Over the years I have learned that there is no ONE WAY to build anything in Audio that is always the best for all people. The best you can hope for is a recipe that pleases as many Aphiles as possible. 

I will report back on my 0 gauge cables in the future based on how they sound to my ears🙂 just the same as others have done here with your recipe. You have but one recipe in a speaker cable cookbook offering near endless recipe ideas. Remember, you are just one recipe and it may or may not taste the best based on the taster’s preferences.

All parts of the system impact the resulting sound including, wire, cable, tubes, trannys, footers, caps, inductors etc.... Since they all impact the sound, then we should listen and make decisions. A cable is also a component and should be listened to wether 24 gauge or 0 gauge. This is after all a hobby and passion for the ears. Engineering and math will tell us an ideal amplifier for a given set of speakers based on the speakers efficiency, sensitivity, impedance curve, room size and listening volumes. Now will the mathematically chosen amp sound as good to the listener as the one he chooses based on actual listening tests? Well we all know the one picked based on actual listening tests will no doubt sound better to the individual. Cables are no different.

No I dont want to load in my system needs and have a computer printout what I should buy based on specs and numbers. Goodness no. I want to hear it.