New speakers unveiled from Clayton Shaw - Caladan

@clio09 that's great to hear. We're in the Cyrstal Springs AVA. I'll let you know when they arrive and are broken in.

@prismvineyards I live in Central Napa so I will be sure to do that.

I ordered a pair. If you’re ever in the Napa area, please stop by our vineyard for a listening session with some great wine.

Let’s see, from listening to an online video presentation you say these new speakers go deeper, tighter and with a more seemless xover......ha ha. So, did you A/B in your own room the Caladan with the latest $9800 X4 Ultra’s? The woofers in the X4 and the ones in the Caladan are the same. The X4 has a way heavier and more dead baffle and stand. The latest X4 has a completely redone xover, super....I mean super parts. I am sure it sounds way, way, way better than any of the X3s, and X5s that anyone has heard.....including Ron. The midrange driver in the old X3 and X5 had horrible binding posts on them.....yikes, no way you can get transparency through a junk brass binding post. These new woofers by Beyma used on the X4 and the Caladan have copper tabs for the inputs.....not massive brass posts. Way better. We should make "noise" when we really know something is true. Otherwise, it is best to make Nonoise.......he he.

I was responding to a post by Nonoise......but I don't see his post.  Anyway, some Info for you.

That's pretty good. I paid 400.00 to ship the X3s. And this was in 2019.

Audioman,

The price is on their website, $2,950 in painted MDF and $3,250 in solid hardwood baffle.....add $150 shipping. I bought mine in maple, and the total invoice was $3,400.

The price is on the website if you click on to order....$2950.

All the best,
Nonoise

I think these speakers will be closer to $6k 

where did youget $3k ? 

I didn’t have an issue with the AMT driver really. What I didn’t like was using a 12” driver to reproduce the midrange. It was a little beamy and didn’t have the realism and texture of a good midrange reproducer. The X3 is the only spatial speaker I’ve heard, but it seems that Clayton insists on using larger drivers for the midrange in all his designs. I’d really like to hear a pair of the PAP using the wooden horn.

I'm planning on checking these out at CAF next weekend. I hope they sound good. I briefly owned a pair of the Spatial Audio Lab X5 speakers and they sucked. The AMT tweeter was brutal, it didn't blend well with the other drivers and constantly called attention to itself. I owned them for 2 or 3 months and I couldn't take it any longer, they had to go. I believe these are more akin to the Spatial Audio M5 Sapphire which I've never heard. 

@jetter 

Thanks for the compliment. My first trade was around 2001 so twenty plus years now not fourteen. The join dates got screwed up when they redid the site many years ago. 
 

At any rate I consider my communication skills adequate and they have served me well over both my professional career and my trading hobby. 
 

In @soix defense my first post was a bit short and included a perhaps obscure reference to Mr Rogers which I grew up watching.  
 

But soix’s angry, denigrating response is one of the reasons I don’t post more. In my experience it’s not an isolated instance, especially on this forum. 
 

Based on another thread here showing all different speakers people have owned, it would seem that most never really find “end game” so handling and shipping are a big deal for many. 

@snapsc Agreed. I’ve settled on my endgame speakers; ATC 50 actives. They came in very large factory boxes (saved) plastic wrapped on a substantial pallet. Hired piano movers to first move them upstairs and then assist manhandling them to install Gaia l footers and help position them correctly in their ’final’ resting place.

I dread a future repair or reconfiguration of the system and the effort involved. Lots to be said about manageable pieces.

Any comments about how this speaker will sound are pure speculation. I’ll tell you what isn’t….based on their size and weight, shipping will inexpensive, not require pallets and minimize the chance of damage. 
 

So, no matter how good they sound, and I suspect it will be good… this will be a big plus for the resale market six months from now when some of the early adapters start to flip them. 

Sad to see the desultory comments from a few posters as to this exciting new speaker development from Clayton.  Let's just wait to see what the public and reviewers opine about the speakers when they hear them.  I have it on very good authority that the new owners of Spatial understand and accept the direction that Clayton is going with his new speakers.  I haven't the slightest doubt that they will be excellent speakers at an affordable price, which is very exciting to anticipate for me. 

@jetter

Take penns comments with the tiniest grain of salt

I love the way @pennfootball71 comes into a thread bashing three thousand dollar speakers as midfi, and to prove his point he compared them to speakers costing many thousands of dollars (some even six figures).

Where does midfi end and high end begin for you Mr. Penn? Can’t you come up with a better comparison than that? You go straight to Wilson and Vivid. Have you even heard any of the better open baffle designs?

OB speakers surely aren’t targeting the Wilson crowd. Obviously there’s too much chest beating puffery in that neighborhood.

@ricevs I am not sure if you’ve heard Wilson’s or Vivid’s properly set up in a good room(not a show in a hotel.) You never been to GTT Audio for example.

A lot of Arm chair quarterbacks always think rich people have the money to pull them out into their grand ballroom but some have a wife or family space that is shared. 
 You also can’t go buy measurements and the paper woofers they use from these open baffle companies are not the same quality as the ones Wilson use. 
Vivid btw you hear no cabinet just like an open baffle buy the way they use tapered tubes to take out 100% of the cabinet resonances. They sound “open” without the compromises of cheaper drivers, better imaging and much better tighter and faster bass.

@soix

@woodsage  So, what’s your point here cause I don’t see one.  A guy with more speaker design “bonafides” than you’ll ever know in your lifetime puts out what looks to be a potentially very high value product and you have to crawl outta your hole and call it a “loss leader” with no evidence to support such other than being a woodworker???  Gimme a break.

Actually, based on woodsage's A’gon history, he has had 323 completed transactions with a total positive feedback score of 1092 in the last 14 years, and only 71 posts.  Safe to say that he actually "walks the walk" more than just "talks the talk".

@woodsage Well, at least that was much more clear than your first post — a step in the right direction and keep up the good work!

@soix 

😂 Sorry but it’s a hard pass as far as taking any communication advice from you. 
 

And saying it twice doesn’t make it anymore astute. 

I think my point is pretty clear and I stated it was just my opinion. Second point was to see how long it would take for someone who disagreed with me to start hurling disparaging personal insults. Didn’t take long did it??

@woodsage Well, I hope your woodworking skills are better than your writing skills because if you were more lucid upfront this would’ve never been an issue unless your initial goal was to intentionally stir the pot, which is another issue entirely.  I hope it’s the former and that you maybe take some writing classes to learn how to write what you really mean to say because several people here were kinda guessing what you really meant here.  Good communication is a valuable skill to have, especially here.

For any faults the X3 might have had, bass response and accuracy was not any part of it. Truly world class bass from that speaker.

I think my point is pretty clear and I stated it was just my opinion. Second point was to see how long it would take for someone who disagreed with me to start hurling disparaging personal insults. Didn’t take long did it??

@woodsage Well, I hope your woodworking skills are better than your writing skills because if you were more lucid upfront this would’ve never been an issue unless your initial goal was to intentionally stir the pot, which is another issue entirely.  I hope it’s the former and that you maybe take some writing classes to learn how to write what you really mean to say.  Good communication is a valuable skill to have, especially here.

I think "loss leader" was meant as a compliment, these seem like an evolution of the M3 Sapphires which started a little under 5k I think.  So at 3k that's a pretty good deal, and I suspect prices will go up as he makes further refinements and cosmetic updates.  The current X4 from Spatial starts at $7,800 and they are discontinuing their entry level Q series so it will be a while before Clayton's new company is competing directly with Spatial.  Perhaps this was part of the separation agreement.  

Not sure how this disintegrated into a peeing contest, but somehow it did. Clayton appears to be making high quality OB speakers at a very fair price, we should hope that more manufacturers did the same....for our pocket books sake.

Are the speakers perfect? I seriously doubt it, but I put my $3,000 on the table to be able to see for myself, in my system. I'm perfectly comfortable to take a chance, especially from someone with a well known track record like his. I already know he uses high quality components, because they are exposed and not buried in a cabinet.

Will they compare to a $20,000 pair of Kaya or Wilsons? God I would think not, otherwise some owners have a serious gripe. And yes OB has it's strengths and weaknesses, but imaging and soundstage are not two of them.

You can get as much bass as you want with open baffle.....you just need more woofer area than a woofer in a box. The Caladan with its two 12s has great bass for most people. You can also do the open baffle servo subs and get 15 hz. You can use 6 12s in a stack on each side and a line source of planars to the ceiling and digital xover and biamped and have a speaker that costs less than $10K and is better than most Wilson or Vivid (overall). If you can afford Wilson or Vivid, you certainly have the living room space to put the speaker out where they belong. Wilsons and Vivids sound way better when they are WAY out in the room. Open baffle speakers can image like crazy.....but you have to know what you are doing to make it work. Look at the IO Design speaker from Italy. No baffles at all......and great sound and imaging.

There are those that put the woofers in a box and have open baffle mids and highs. This way you get more bass out of a smaller driver. The Qualio IQ comes to mind. Great speaker.....and with mods would be world class.

There is no "system". The ego makes limitations. The mind and heart explores all possibilities and does so experientially.

When you mind and heart are not open......then you react from your ego.

These are probably the woofs he is using:

https://usspeaker.com/beyma%2012BR70-1.htm

Here is the wire he is using:

https://jupitercondenser.com/products/copy-of-stranded-tinned-copper-wire-lacquered-cotton-insulation

For  $1200 you can buy the 4 woofs, 2 tweeters, wire and all xover parts.. This would be usng an even better coil on the midrange (Jantzen 12 gauge waxed paper foil).  Then you make a baffle and wire it up.  I would not use binding posts. I would hardwire the speaker cable to the wires going to the xover parts. 

Another possibility would be to cut off the back of the tweeter so there is no chamber.  This would lower the resonant frequency of the tweeter and probably allow a more transparent sound.  However, power handling could be compromised.  I do this to my Vifa tweeters that are sitting on top of my two way speaker.  The Vifa tweeter sounds way better with the back cut off.  However, it is not doing real low frequencies like the one in the Caladan.  However, if you used a digital xover and used steep slopes then you could cross it over at 1K and play 110db.

Another possibility would be to make the speaker with just the woofs and then put a shelf on top and mount the tweeter on a recessed baffle with felt on the top of the speaker to time align the tweeter with the woofs.  Mucho better than just tilting the speaker back a bit.  Of course, everything I suggest has to be measured and listened to.

You can just make the baffle with the drivers mounted and use a $500 Minidsp Flex as the digital xover.  Then you need two amps (modded Fosi V3 would be great for the bass and inexpensive).  This way you can time align the tweeter to the woofs and equalize the whole speaker and use whatever amps you want on the woofs and tweets......but if you are going to go that far then you might as well use a stack of 4 planars for the mids and highs and cross over at 400hz as explained before and on my website.

Only about 5% of audiophiles are DIYers......so this info is not hurting Clayton's pocketbook. Most of you are rolling your eyes after reading all this.....he he.  It is good eye exercise.

Have fun!

Open baffle have to many compromises and a following of people trying to “beat the system” instead of something with full range and can dig deeper down like a Wilson or Vivid audio.

Not a lot of bass! They need a lot of room to breath and they don’t image as well.

pennfootball71

121 posts

11-04-2023 at 03:32pm 

Open baffle is midfi

I don’t think I can go along with that at all. Sounds like an uninformed opinion to me.

@pennfootball71 

I have never owned an open baffle speaker and am feeling tempted to consider this one.  Would you mind sharing what it is about OB speaker that makes them midfi?

Open baffle is midfi

@ricevs 

I was an early adopter of the X3. I paid 7500.00 and that was before the big price increase. Although they were very good speakers, ultimately they weren’t for me so I moved on.  Now that speaker is where I can see a good sized profit being made. I’d guess he might have had 3000.00 (tops) in parts.

So, what’s your point here cause I don’t see one.  A guy with more speaker design “bonafides” than you’ll ever know in your lifetime puts out what looks to be a potentially very high value product and you have to crawl outta your hole and call it a “loss leader” with no evidence to support such other than being a woodworker???  Gimme a break. 
 

@soix I think my point is pretty clear and I stated it was just my opinion. Second point was to see how long it would take for someone who disagreed with me to start hurling disparaging personal insults. Didn’t take long did it?? 😂

The way I see it, I don’t think the term is meant to denigrate, but compliment. At least in this case. It’s pretty obvious that Clayton is not making bank selling these speakers at that price. I would imagine this is an introductory offer that has a limited time span. 
 

Again, just my guess.
 

@ozzy62 That’s quite a bit better assessment of my post. Not meant to denigrate or compliment, just calling it as I see it.

Carry on folks, it’s time for me to crawl back into my sawdust laden hole!

Ozzy62,

How do you see it? What are your calculations of money in the speaker? Must be way different than mine. I have been in the high end audio business since the late 70s.

From what I see, he is making good money selling them at that price point. Look at the picture on Clayton’s site of him soldering the speaker. That thing is super simple and light. The speakers from Spatial (Clayton’s old company) are way heavier and thicker (3 inches thick of exotic baffle material), have way heavier stands, have way, way more parts and more expensive parts. That is why they are more money. He probably has less people to split the money with now that he is on his own. I don’t see him raising the price. He is going to crank them out.....just like the Mofi $3600 retail bookshelf speaker. The Mofi has ordinary jacks, wire and lots of ordinary Chinese xover parts. The Caladan has way better sounding binding posts, wire and xover parts. The Caladan also goes lower in the bass and is more efficient. Because it is open baffle and you can get to everything super easy.....you could bi-amp the speaker real easy to make it sound even better. The Caladan is also way simpler and easier to manufacture.......and can be done here in the US of A.......and the Caladan is going to sound way better. Some people need/want box speakers. Me, I love me an open baffle speaker. No box.....no box sound.

This looks like the tweeter he is using:

https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-RST28F-4-1-1-8-Reference-Series-Fabric-Dome-Tweeter-4-Ohm-275-141?quantity=1

The way I see it, I don’t think the term is meant to denigrate, but compliment. At least in this case. It’s pretty obvious that Clayton is not making bank selling these speakers at that price. I would imagine this is an introductory offer that has a limited time span. 
 

Again, just my guess.

He is making plenty of money. He would not sell it, if he were not.

4 woofs.....$700, 2 tweeters $150, 6 caps $80, 4 inductors...$50.....4 binding posts $200, wire $100, 6 footers $300. All prices above retail....wholesale 50% less so = $800 max. Two pieces of wood machined....$200.....four brackets.....$150.....shipping boxes $200....so $1500 max plus his labor. He can assemble one pair easily in a day and pack and ship it. The speaker is super simple. The baffles are all cut on a cnc machine and then he just finishes them 20 at a time with paint or varnish. The wire already comes twisted together. He just runs it in the channels the cnc machine makes. He can assmeble 5 pairs at once....if he has enough tables. Not bad.....maybe? $1500 a day more than cost parts.....working 6 days a week that is $468K a year over parts.......That is NOT a loss leader!!!!!!!! Of course, he has expenses and a partner and it costs a few thousand $ to go to the show. I know what it cost to run a business. However, when the business is small like his.....you can make seriously good money if you have steady business. This is what he is counting on.....and he is getting a very powerful promo from Ron.  Free advertising is best!

The above costs are what I know about the speaker from seeing the review and knowing what those parts costs. This is just a quesstimate (the actual cost of parts and labor may be much more).

Selling direct has many advantages. The speaker is very smart.....he is very smart. I am sure he will sell a ton as this is a massively great speaker for the money.

However, you have probably seen my post about making your own bi-amped fully eqed time aligned fully dipole speaker for the same money that uses the same woofs but uses 4 planars from 400hz on up.......mucho better....but you have to build it.......and if you bi-amped using 2 modded GaN 1 digital amps.....OMG!

@woodsage So, what’s your point here cause I don’t see one.  A guy with more speaker design “bonafides” than you’ll ever know in your lifetime puts out what looks to be a potentially very high value product and you have to crawl outta your hole and call it a “loss leader” with no evidence to support such other than being a woodworker???  Gimme a break. 

Conmoto,

It refers to selling a product at little or no profit, or even at a loss to attract customers to a new product or company.....often times to get a good public response and "buzz" for the company. Not really a derogatory term, unless intended that way.

The Gaia feet alone are $50 each retail, or $300 for all six, the WBT binding posts are $45 each or $180 for four.....that's just about $500 just for the feet and binding posts per pair. It appears the caps, resistors, air core inductors, and wiring are also rather high grade....though I can't recall exactly what they are off of memory. Not sure about the driver costs. Overall he seems to be selling a very high quality product for an extremely fair price, Having no middle man (dealer network) also helps greatly.

Yes, also the drivers (no incidental expense in a loudspeaker), wood baffle, hardware, finish, labor, packaging, cost of doing business and a little thing called profit margin which keeps  the doors open.

This might have been borderline doable in 2019 (although I doubt it) but in 2023, no way. 

As a side note regarding my bonafides, I was in wood products manufacturing for 40 years. Which isn’t to say I’m am right, this is just my opinion based on some rough calculations. And, unless I missed it somewhere, there are no images of the rear of the speaker so hard to factor in the base, rear support, how many footers per speaker etc. so I can’t really accurately calculate all costs. 

 

Conmoto,

It refers to selling a product at little or no profit, or even at a loss to attract customers to a new product or company.....often times to get a good public response and "buzz" for the company. Not really a derogatory term, unless intended that way.

The Gaia feet alone are $50 each retail, or $300 for all six, the WBT binding posts are $45 each or $180 for four.....that's just about $500 just for the feet and binding posts per pair. It appears the caps, resistors, air core inductors, and wiring are also rather high grade....though I can't recall exactly what they are off of memory. Not sure about the driver costs.

Overall he seems to be selling a very high quality product for an extremely fair price, Having no middle man (dealer network) also helps greatly.

What do you mean by “loss leader”?

Specs and information:

• 1.5″ THICK BAFFLE CRAFTED FROM SOLID AMERICAN HARDWOOD OR PAINTED MDF
• DRIVERS: TWIN 12 INCH DIA. STUDIO-GRADE BASS/MID UNITS ONE 1.125 INCH DIA. WIDE-RANGE SILK DOME TWEETER
• WIRING: JUPITER TWISTED PAIR IN COTTON
• FREQUENCY RANGE: 32Hz–20kHz +/- 2dB
• SENSITIVITY: 93 dB 1W/1M
• IMPEDANCE: 4 Ohm
• INPUT: WBT NEXTGEN 0703 BINDING POST. BANANA, SPADE AND BARE WIRE
• FEET: ISOACOUSTICS GAIA III

Can you say loss leader? Sure! I knew you could!!

Hope his new company knocks it out of the park!  Design and materials look solid enough.  A beacon in the fog of ‘me too’ mediocrity.  Sadly, I will not contribute in the immediate future as I’ve long since committed to my stable of mostly Brit and Swiss based kit.  However, I can encourage others to shun the mass marketers of dreck.

Look forward to the first impressions.

Specs and information:

• 1.5″ THICK BAFFLE CRAFTED FROM SOLID AMERICAN HARDWOOD OR PAINTED MDF
• DRIVERS: TWIN 12 INCH DIA. STUDIO-GRADE BASS/MID UNITS ONE 1.125 INCH DIA. WIDE-RANGE SILK DOME TWEETER
• WIRING: JUPITER TWISTED PAIR IN COTTON
• FREQUENCY RANGE: 32Hz–20kHz +/- 2dB
• SENSITIVITY: 93 dB 1W/1M
• IMPEDANCE: 4 Ohm
• INPUT: WBT NEXTGEN 0703 BINDING POST. BANANA, SPADE AND BARE WIRE
• FEET: ISOACOUSTICS GAIA III

I see that Clayton will be exhibiting his speakers this month at the Capital Audio Fest.  I will be keen to hear the show reports. I am lead to believe that he will be using off-the-shelf drivers for his new speakers which if true, will give some assurance of continue vitality to his speakers.  

Click on 'Place your Order' - you will see the speaker specs on the order page