Again geofkaitt you don't read. Tim told Frank specifically, not to use his PPT products near or on magnets. They don't work. I never said that the E-Mats or any PPT products contain magnets or work on magnetic principles.
Where PPT products work is amazing. Frank's sound system was great when I heard it our mutual friend who is a part time LP mastering engineer agrees. |
Well, you are right. There is always something worse. But, going back to your question, even kids know the answer. |
So ... what’s wrong with Cauliflower? I mean, its not exactly Brussel sprouts. |
Glad you are staying well. Stay well in the mean time, but someday we will meet in the eternal fields where all souls are free...I will then listen to your Dynaco tube amplifier without travel problems... :) |
mahgister, living in Vermont, exacly three hours south of you my friend, I can just put the food outside. Light flurries yesterday and this a.m.
Glad you are staying well.
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AFAIK, my refrigerator was unaffected. LOL Jetter I know that your refrigerator is in wood with ice block... My best to you.... :) |
I have about 6 E mats and a couple of E cards. They are the only tweak of this kind I have used. No rainbow colored or bees wax fuses, no fancy receptacles, plug covers, no quantum or graphene or voltage treated anything. Forget cryo, forget SR. I am a neanderthal.
Unfortunately when I installed my E mats and cards, I made a couple of other changes to my system. Whether it was the mats, cards, or other changes, or all in combination, my system definitely took a step upwards. Have no desire to remove any of it to find out.
AFAIK, my refrigerator was unaffected. LOL
P.S. I think the two persons who were PPT were the nicest ever.
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Does anyone actually enjoy cauliflower?
Haha You are on top form today Golden! |
"...you will enjoy your calliflower 3 to 4 days longer.... :)" Does anyone actually enjoy cauliflower? |
Put 4 pieces of 100 gram each of shungite in the refrigerator near vegetables and save vegetable freshness for at least few days over.... And It seems the fridge work better.... I know I try it with 2 fridge...
You can throw rocks at me if you are a " dogmatic scientist", but you will enjoy your calliflower 3 to 4 days longer.... :)
I dont use the E-mats, but my "golden plate" seems to work in the same direction, perhaps not with the same transforming power... I put them in the same place and locations than the E-mats... On the central panel for example, behind my speakers etc.... the transformation was very audible.... With my many acoustical treatment of the room this gives to my system an out of the world real good performance....I am sure that Omega path tech is better than my tweaks.... But my tweaks work so well I dont killed myself in upgrading anything now or for the years that will come.... Anyway with this crisis....
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Hey Tom, very interesting and I will certainly do that. It is something I was not aware of. Many thanks. Music is now sounding a little more relaxed, not so over-hyped and almost listenable again. My wife and I decided to watch a movie for a change and have just finished watching Late Quartet. Superb acting and great music. 4 ****
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This has been repeated a number of times, based on the following it does not make sense to me, unless the thermostats on all your 'fridges are broken: I would have absolutely agreed on this score myself as it just cannot seem possible but...... My sodas ( diet guys!) all froze two days after The Gate was added to my main breaker panel with NO other changes made. Even the better half said it was colder in the fridge and could I turn it up. I went from a setpoint of 37 to 39 on the fridge to stop soda freezing in the bottle. No I cannot explain it and tbh to not truly care why or how it does this. Obviously this is not all that The Gate does and I can see it being possible that just the Mats might have a similar effect. |
"...based on the following it does not make sense to me, unless the thermostats on all your 'fridges are broken:" It does not make sense to anybody, except those who have shelled money out for a large refrigerator magnet. |
Lemonhaze,
While your PPT products are in a heap I would place that heap on an unused speaker or subwoofer magnet. There is an inner action between the high gauss fields output by magnets and breaker boxes and the materials contained within the Emats and the Cards. Both of these products seem to become more coherent and have a more powerful and positive influence after they sit for many hours on a subwoofer or unused speaker driver. I rotate my mats on and off such a subwoofer and then reintroduce back into place in my system. Tom |
@geoffkait: Yes I have made changes by shufflling cables around but that was done to try and smooth out the sound. I soon realised that no cable swapping could sort out the problem. The bass traps and other room treatments were in place before the problem raised its ugly head. I have never found bass traps to harm the sound, to the contrary the results have always been greatly beneficial and sometimes astonishing. Measurements show a much improved response and my ears agree. The measurements also show that I need more.
@jafreeman: I appreciate the sympathy. I too have not come across a negative comment and the effusive praise heaped upon these products is what convinced me to buy them, expecting wondrous things to happen.
The above comment shows in a negative light, the posters who relentlessly insist on the placebo or expectation bias effect. Those guilty of this mysterious tactic might try and explain this effect considering the money I have spent and the fact that my wife and I were both really looking forward to and expecting the rewards, the deeper immersion into and the simple pleasure of music, over and above what the acoustic treatments brought.
@oregonpapa: I have no magnets anywhere and agree that something definitely is not right.
@Ipretiring: I intend to experiment with these mats but will certainly contact you should I decide to sell. They are sitting in a disgraced heap at the moment being eyed by my wife to use as non-returning boomerangs. I am interested in your findings on The Truth either on this thread or by PM if more appropriate. I took a chance buying unheard, when I realised that my DIY valve linestage had developed humm and required rebuilding.
@grannyring: I am using as speaker cables and power cables Duelund cotton covered wire which I think you have a lot of experience with. I found an Oyaide PC better suited, in my system, on my DAC but liked the Duelund on an Oppo and linestage. Speaking of which, I am very interested in the mods to your unit and in which way it was improved. I ordered mine from Ed with upgraded OCC solid core wire on inputs and outputs. I was intending to replace the supplied standard RCA sockets with quality low-mass ones. If you could PM me with details of your mods I would be most grateful but will understand if you don't.
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Also, my refrigerator is set 10% higher temperature setting since installing the E-Mat on the main and subpanel breaker boxes since early 2019. Maybe it does make the power more efficient. This has been repeated a number of times, based on the following it does not make sense to me, unless the thermostats on all your 'fridges are broken: When the air inside the refrigerator is at the desired temperature, the thermostat stops the flow of electricity to the compressor. When the thermostat senses too much heat, it allows electricity to flow, activating the compressor.
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Uh, troutchoker, the mats don’t operate by reducing EMI. Hel-loo! Take two placebos and see me in the morning. |
The placebo effect in audiophile-ville is alive and well. If you THINK something is going to help, it may well help. There are many easy cheaper ways to reduce EMI. But you have to be able to think; looking for the next audio placebo is not using your brain, it is using your credit card. |
Pretty sure we established a long time ago the mats don’t work by magnetism. They may be slightly magnetic but that’s not the principle. Graphene is not magnetic. Next theory?
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PPT products XXXX Magnets - Not a match + simple to comprehend
I forgot that the E-Mats also went on the rear of my speakers over the crossovers. That had a positive sonic effect without a negative effect. No magnets there either (sufficiently far from drivers) but lots of coils such as found in an isolation transformer. |
Geez, talk about too many variables, fleschler. Cut us some slack. |
Also, my refrigerator is set 10% higher temperature setting since installing the E-Mat on the main and subpanel breaker boxes since early 2019. Maybe it does make the power more efficient. |
My experience is also mixed but a happy result afterwards. Frank figured out why the E-Mats, TC, stopits and mini-gate do not always work. I have a system with a special magnet/proprietary metal in junction boxes and cabling. Everywhere the PPT products go, the sound got closed in, loss of ambiance and (gritty sound with TC). I had this problem that I didn't bring up two years ago with the TC because everyone loved it. Well, after listening for two months, I had to remove the TC. Voila! better sound. I only recently tried the stopits and mini-gate. No good. However, I began reinstalling E-Mats and stopits in locations where there was no magnets. So, five stopits went into unused outlets in the room which were not powered by the audio only subpanel. Adding stopits to the unused audio outlets was bad. I left the 2 E+ Mats on the audio subpanel and E-Mats on the subpanel and main breaker box. I added 2 E-Mats to the isolation transformer (I tried 6 then 4-no good). All other E-Mats were also removed. I had one really great test CD to tell me whether there was any change, improvement or worsening sound. Persuasive Percussion (No.1), especially tract 8 where there should be tape hiss easily heard at the beginning. Too many mats, mats on equipment proximate to magnets, all cabling and outlets with magnet in the wiring = no tape hiss, squashed highs and shrunken soundstage. Without any PPT products= bright/thinner sounding hiss, less coherent sound, less open soundstage.
The mini-gate did improve the sound across the room in an outlet that sounded good with a stopit. It also supersaturated TV picture color when plugged into the power plant for the TV/Audio system in other rooms.
So, basically don't use PPT products where there are magnets but experimentation does yield benefits occasionally on equipment (isolation transformer and audio subpanels with wiring having cables with magnets plugged in on one of four breakers.
It took me two weeks to decide where PPT products work and didn't work other than the TC. The PPT products added immensely to the fuller harmonics and depth/width of the sound with no negatives. I really love the products. |
lemonhaze ...
Something isn't right. Just out of curiosity, do you have any tweaks in the system that involve magnets? Frank |
Mapman do you still live in the same house you were brought to after being born? Tom |
I also have The Truth preamp with Ecards inside and a separate chassis DIY dual mono power supply for it with a Mat inside. Love the sound.
I removed the Mats from my breaker box and liked the sound better. However, I find the Mats sound great inside or on my gear! |
Nobody seems to know how or why they work other than claims of improved sound so anything is possible with products like that.
Live and learn. I’m sure some will buy used tweaks for a discount. |
Sorry to hear that, Lemonhaze. I can't recall a testimonial citing worsened performance with the mats. Maybe try again later and in different places?
In this rapidly changing world, my PPT products continue to deliver the same reliable improvements as before.
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lemonhaze said... "I hope somebody can shed some light on this as all I am left with is the empty feeling of wasting a large sum of money." All part of the game we call audio. There seems to be enough peeps on site that would take them off your hands..albeit..at a significant loss on your end. |
lemonhaze,
I have had quite a different experience with PPT products than you. I ironically also have the Truth linestage, but I would not want to give up what the PPT products have brought to my music reproduction. However if you would like to sell them, I could use one. PM me if interested.
Goodluck, and be safe.
LP
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You made a lot of changes and additions recently. It can be a little difficult to pinpoint what the problems stem from. Especially when things are probably still breaking in. Even bass traps can often take some time to figure out where exactly they improve the sound, they can sometimes degrade the sound. They certainly aren’t the no brainer people oft think they are. Just my 2 centavos.
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grannyring
03-02-2020 12:37pm
It did sound better, but that has changed. Both are true at the same time. Why? No idea.
Schrödinger’s mats? |
I was not sure where to post this problem I have.
They were all the original mats. Also, to be clear, I removed the linestage from the path and took the analogue-out from the DAC directly to the power amp.
I hope somebody can shed some light on this as all I am left with is the empty feeling of wasting a large sum of money.
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Due to house repairs and installation of bass traps etc. I have only recently introduced E Mats and TC into my system. Some Application of TC was done about 3 months ago and the Mats about 3 weeks ago.
The stuff certainly, beyond any doubt, makes a significant difference in my system. And not for the good!
What it does is render it over the top bright and harsh. Unlistenable to the point where my wife screws up her face while I dive for the volume control.
I have changed out interconnects and tried a permutation of different power cables and swapped between silver and copper wiring on the linestage inputs but with the sound overpoweringly bright, non of this made any difference.
In case you're wondering about my kit, I'm able to clearly hear the sound change when altering the position of a stock fuse.
I have tried bypassing my linestage 'The Truth' and going direct into a Wadia15 This DAC is normaly in no way bright, but the system becomes a screaming, screeching monster with the 9 mats I have.
The system is slowly returning to its previous state after 3 days of mat removal. These things are decidedly powerful.
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Yes, I agree, I put 2 e-mat+ on the breaker box and used four e-mats on the backs of the speakers (1 at the crossover section and 1 on the top midrange/super tweeter ribbon drivers). Both noticeable improvements. |
I have 3 of the new e mats in my breaker box and 2 on the back of the speakers. The impact of having them on the back of the speakers is very large. I wish I could get some more. |
I have over-the-air TV and in every TV in the house with the eMat installed in the breaker box (I have a bunch of TVs, even though I'm not a big TV watcher), the channels were screwed up in a different manner on each TV (some wouldn't tune in, others had double channels one of which didn't work and some had different channels on the tuned in channels). I didn't notice a difference taking it out (was in there for a couple of months and sticking it someplace else in the main system) but I haven't listened to the secondary systems (one of which I use more for HT and the other is a 2 channel one). While the main system is an integrated AV system, it doesn't see tons of use for video. As long as the main system audio doesn't make much difference where that eMat is (I have another eMat and a couple of plus Mats and eCards too) for audio I'll probably leave it where it is now in the main system. |
I'd be interested to know how long some of you had your mat(s) on the breaker panel or door. It took a long time to make a 100% positive difference on my best TV in the family room after putting one on the panel door and another one under the middle of the Sony LED 65" 4K TV. For while, the colors were very saturated and almost luminescent with almost a gold at the edges of objects that had primary colors. This remained for about 3-4 weeks. Almost removed the mat from the TV, but all of a sudden, the clarity and the color just got vastly better, no more slight ghost edges and the colors were intense, beautiful and had zero of the aforementioned problem. It has stayed that way since.
As for the sound of the E-Mat+'s, I find it to be off the charts great with any one I add. People that used to complain about the sound of VMPS RM40s even with all the upgrades, should hear them in my system now. I was going to sell them until the day the mats really kicked in. In my experience, it will take several days to a week until this happens after placing a mat on position. Then, the sound is the best upgrade I have ever made in my system and has remained that way ever since.
Bob
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@grannyring ,
Never heard of the Truth preamp. Very intriguing.
You are pleased with it? |
I have many mats in and on my breaker boxes...never bright and always transparent. I added a few more mats after I installed a Gate inside my primary box which is adjacent to the sub panel, both are located in my audio room. I have found putting the mats even closer or even inside a component makes for a greater improvement. Tom |
Thank you, grannyring. Yep, the sound here is spectacular. There is no "dulling" of high frequencies at all. I'm not doubting your results in removing the mats from the panel in the least. If it works for you, then great. I'm happy for you. After all, that's what this forum is for ... helping each other get the most out of our musical obsession, right?
Frank |
Not consistent with your wishes of others however.....oh well. Just trying to help fellow Agoners who wish to try something easier than replacing a fuse. I know you love your sound and I am happy for you. |
I'm going to remain closed-minded and keep my circuit breaker box closed as well. :-)
Frank |
Added high Frequencies might be desirable in some systems. |
Corollary of the placebo effect: any change=better. |
I posted this months ago (regarding brightness with mats and breaker box)...but I am not one of the reputable users here, so I was ignored, told that maybe some circuit breakers boxes are not all created equal lol. Now, that might be true, but I know what I am hearing. It won’t cost you anything to try. |
It did sound better, but that has changed. Both are true at the same time. Why? No idea. I changed my gear so perhaps system synergy is at play. Perhaps time, many months, plays a role? |
Interesting reversal of fortune. I would have thought the breaker box was a slam dunk. The users sure made it sound that way. |
I removed the 3 mats I had on my Breaker Box and my system is without question, smoother and warmer. Try it, you might like it. |
