New Joseph Audio Pulsar Graphene 2

Celo, yes for new ones not for the upgrade. 

Current price is $15K

Not sure what the current price is but last summer I had my Perspectives upgraded to the Graphene 2 the cost was $3750 plus shipping. 

erik,
Yeah, we went through that in this thread :-)

Guys,

Read the seas white paper on the graphene mid woofer.  They make it pretty clear it is an oxidation retardant.

They also make it clear they have made significant improvements to the motor.

Not liking the Perspective2 is like not liking Amish butter on top of freshly baked sourdough bread.

Funny enough, I just came immediately from watching a youtube "foodporn" fine dining video with someone eating bread/butter just like that and I was salivating watching it!  (Can you imagine giving up carbs/bread, as some people do?)


Anyway, I'll likely upgrade my Perspectives to the Amish butter version...er...Graphene coating version....when I can :-)

I’d say more like 1st Gen. LCD vs. last Gen. OLED. 
There’s a guy who auditioned them recently and said he wouldn’t buy them because the dealer won’t come down on the price. He must now have not liked them enough. Not liking the Perspective2 is like not liking Amish butter on top of freshly baked sourdough bread. Interesting. 

prof,

On my Thiels it's a big, rich, dense sound, satisfying in it's own way. There is what I'd call a "generalized organic tone" to everything.

However, that same track played on the Joseph Perspective2s had a timbral aliveness, variety and vividness the Thiels can't seem to match.The exact tonal difference of the muted trumpets appearing, the wood/metal sound of the saxes, the guitar, are so timbrally distinct and vivid it's sort of like beholding a timbral display of fireworks.

......

IMO.Listening to other such speakers feels like listening in black and white in timbral terms - the Josephs more like listening "in color."



Yes.

For me it's also a bit like LED v OLED.
Neither are strictly accurate but one has that extra touch of heightened reality, which renders the comparison a no-contest.

@djones51 When I ran JA Perspective speakers I found the more power I fed them the better they sounded. I never ran them with tubes, only SS.

Yeah, I remember that even in my city Thiels used to be paired with Classe amps.  


I always liked the Thiel sound but found it just a touch dry and a bit hard.And people always said "Thiels are tough to drive, you need tons of current!"

It was when I heard Thiel CS6 speakers powered by VAC tube amps at an audio show that the veil was lifted from my eyes :-).   It was an amazing combination of the Thiel virtues, with an organic liquidity.

I ended up with those Thiels being driven by the CJ Premier 12s and the combo was heaven, combining the type of attributes I heard in the VAC/Thiel combo.

The CJs have gone on to power every speaker, large or small, less or more efficient, in my room with seemingly no problems.   Tube magic, but with punch, grip and control.    That's why I can't see getting rid of them any time soon.

Probably the same, MA 252 tubes on the pre section SS on the power, though they have a new integrated out MA 352 200W. Kind of why I was wondering if I needed a little more power it's like the amp doesn't grab hold of them where they bounce along tight with ease in the bass while keeping the mids and highs open and pristine at lower listening levels. I used to have some Paradigms paired with an Anthem I225 I wish I kept that old amp. I see you talk about Thiel's. I live in Louisville they were in Lexington, a little shop here used to get the new model Thiel's pretty quick,  I think the guy who owned it knew him. I loved going there listening to them, never could afford them though, they always paired them with big Class'e mono blocks. 

BTW, just spent a while listening to various excellent speakers at a pal's house (he has PMC, Epsilon, Aurelia, and others).  Each has fine qualities, but none have the open, extended, utterly grain-free and harmonically rich top end and mids of the Joseph speakers, IMO.Listening to other such speakers feels like listening in black and white in timbral terms - the Josephs more like listening "in color."  (Again...to my ears).

djones51
I actually meant to add:  I've also heard the Perspectives a couple of times at the same dealer using the McIntosh Integrated tube amp (100W I believe...so same as yours?).

Sounded great with that amp too.  Though a bit more plumby in the bass.  However, I find the Perspectives sound a bit flabby in that store generally speaking.  Once I got them home and dialed in, powered by my CJ amps they are taught and well controlled.

Thanks,  I am using a McIntosh integrated with only 100W, low level listening at night is constrained was curious if a little more power would open them up a bit without having to turn them up. 

@djones51

I use Conrad Johnson Premier 12 monoblock tube amps, 140W of push-pull tubes per side.   And a CJ Premier 16LS2 preamp.

The dealer was using Sim Audio amps...integrated I believe.
The Joseph speakers are not very sensitive, but are supposed to be a benign load for tube amps.

Graphene is a stiffener and a very good one, super lightweight and super-stiff, that’s what everybody wants for a transducer. Hel-loo! And that’s why graphene is very effective in tennis racquets (Djokovic’s racquet of choice for the last six years) and why graphene would be an excellent material for use in tonearms, platters, CD trays, CDs, isolation stand top plates, etc. What’s next, Graphene wall paint? Bring it on!

@prof , I apologize if this is wandering to far off topic but I was curious as to what amplifier you use with the Perspectives perhaps you've said but I missed it, and what they were using at the dealer with the Perspectives 2 ? 

cd318

I've had to unlearn some intuitions along the way, or at least modify them.

I agree there does seem to often be a certain character of cleanliness and clarity with metal driver speakers.  And this can come with something of an acidic or metallic aftertaste on the tone.  I also had the belief that metal dome tweeters did the sound of metal more authentically.   That was undone when I heard a speaker like the Josephs, which use a soft dome tweeter but on which drum cymbals jumped out to me as particularly authentic and metallic-sounding.
But if we are to stick with presuming for the moment the intuitions of how certain speakers sound due to their materials and build: something like the big fat ol' Devore speakers with their paper drivers sound particularly "organic," "woody/papery" where I just hear the wood in the body of an acoustic guitar, or the reedy tone of a reed instrument, or the vibrating wood of a cello.  The sound is not electronic-edged, hard, metal-tinged.

The Joseph speakers do an excellent job of providing the sonic benefits of a modern-sounding speaker with great metal drivers (woofer/mids anyway) so you get as you say that super clean, pure, "fast" sound.But Jeff Joseph has cannily designed in, or kept, a richness in the lower mids down that, gives some richness and body, which combine with the grain-free smoothness and clarity of the upper frequencies to make a very attractive, sensuous sound.

They don't sound as bang-on organic to me as the Devore (or my Spendor) speakers overall.  But they do surprisingly well and give a lot back by the sheer amount of beautiful harmonic content they dig out of a mix.


My Thiels, particularly driven by my tube amps, are a sort of in-between the Devore and Joseph sound.

I was listening to the opening track of the Bullit soundtrack which is great because it has guitar, drums, bass, and all sorts of different instrumentation, muted horns, horns, sax sections etc, flashing in and out out very dynamically.   On my Thiels it's a big, rich, dense sound, satisfying in it's own way.  There is what I'd call a "generalized organic tone" to everything.

However, that same track played on the Joseph Perspective2s had a timbral aliveness, variety and vividness the Thiels can't seem to match.The exact tonal difference of the muted trumpets appearing, the wood/metal sound of the saxes, the guitar, are so timbrally distinct and vivid it's sort of like beholding a timbral display of fireworks.My original Perspectives also do this.  Though my sense is the new Perspectives go a bit further.
(Playing Rush on my Thiels last night was a blast.  They go very loud without  strain and do rock with a dense, punchy balls-to-the-wall energy).

prof

"..the Thiels were as usual a somewhat richer, thicker sound, with very dense, round imaging, very organic and relaxing, but also dynamic. The main thing missing in the Thiels vs the Perspectives is the exquisite refinement of timbre up in to the higher frequencies. They miss that gorgeous sparkle and aliveness of the Perspectives."


I wonder if that difference might be, at least partially, down to the use of aluminium drivers in the 2.7s against the magnesium drivers of the Perspectives.

In any case I have also noticed that exquisite timbre in the higher frequencies, (perhaps 5-8kHz?) that most metal drivers seem to bring, along with an almost crystal clear leading edge speed which can make other drivers appear slightly blurred in comparison. It’s not night and day, but it’s there.

Of course, as you found in your response to the differences in comparitive bass reproduction, all loudspeakers seem to present a balancing act of various strengths and unfortunately unavoidable compromises.

Even so, it’s still those strengths we all ultimately strive for.

Thank you for the mini review and comparison. I have never heard the Perspective so I cannot make a comparison but the Perspective2 I heard had zero flaws for me in Jeff’s room/setup at the show. 
Maybe being too close to the wall caused that issue for you. 
I really think that if I can buy the Perspective2s one day, I would be set for life in the speaker department. 

Righto...

So today I dropped in to my JA dealer (who sold me my pair of original Perspectives a few months back), for a listen to the new Perspective2Graphene.

Before I get to that: taking user reports and show reports all together, the consensus seemed to be "stronger, tighter bass, more refined and resolved midrange and highs, though most of the changes noticeable in the bass.
I love my Perspectives, though of course no speaker is The Perfect Speaker for me. For instance, I know I’d also love the fuller, bigger, richer sound of the Devore O/96 speakers as well. And my Thiel 2.7s are also a bit richer/fuller sounding toward the top end as well.

Since I’d consider upgrading my Perspectives to the graphene version when I have the money, I had a couple of concerns: Did the bass change so much that it would now overwhelm my room? My current Perspectives are just on the edge of doing this sometimes, though most of the time they are well controlled and I love the bass quality.
Also, the new Perspectives measure flatter in the high end vs the uprising highs of the original. I wondered if possibly the descriptions of "smoother, more relaxed, easier on the ears" may have resulted in a darkening of the tone, less airy. And would they be a bit reticent dynamically in the upper mids/high frequencies?

Unfortunately one aspect I could not get a handle on was the bass performance. The speakers were hampered by being too close together and too close to the wall behind them, making the bass sound overwarm and exaggerated on tracks with deep bass. So that was a bummer to not get a good handle on that.

But aside from that, when the music wasn’t exciting the room bass nodes, the bass was nice.

What I heard generally speaking was, yes, what seemed to be a somewhat more refined, resolved, clearer sound. The clarity and cleanliness and that grain-free quality was remarkable. I heard bits and pieces, say an acoustic guitar part in a familiar mix etc, seem to be more vividly resolved and tonally separated in the mix. And the high end weren’t at all dark sounding - they kept essentially the same tonal signature of the original. But it just felt like the level of resolution and clarity had taken a step forward. This was especially evident in some tracks with layered electric and acoustic guitars where the highs were realistically extended, grain free and very present. The layers of shimmering harmonics heard between all the guitars and the guitar strings were the best I’ve heard. The sound had a sense of "luxuriousness" in it’s ease, clarity and gorgeous tone of each element in a mix.

To make sure they could rock I spun Rush’s 2112. The sound was rich, full and very punchy. All the track elements super clear and separated, and the tone of Geddy’s bass and especially Alex’s guitar, electric and acoustic, were rendered with a upper midrange/high frequency beauty...the guitar tone just shimmered with more complexity than on most speakers.

Also, the electric guitars did seem a bit thicker and more substantial than back home on my Perspectives (this is where my Thiels give a bolder presentation in the upper mids with electric guitar). Not sure if this was a trait of the new speakers, or the large Sim Audio amps driving them.

Back home, spinning several of the same tracks on my Thiels (currently in my system), the Thiels were as usual a somewhat richer, thicker sound, with very dense, round imaging, very organic and relaxing, but also dynamic. The main thing missing in the Thiels vs the Perspectives is the exquisite refinement of timbre up in to the higher frequencies. They miss that gorgeous sparkle and aliveness of the Perspectives. I love the Thiels’ bass which is both super in control, but dense and punchy. But the Perspectives (my Perspectives anyway) bass has even more roundness and punch/kick toward the listener, which makes bass guitar and drum kits (kick drum especially) feel more impactful and "in the room."

Anyway, my hour-long demo of the Perspective2s left me with the impression that they are a slightly more refined version, which seem to retain what I like in my Perspectives. I’m a bit haunted by some of the sound quality I heard today so I’ll certainly consider upgrading my Perspectives when I have the money. Though for me the jury is still out about the bass quality.

cd318

I believe that, in the right hands, the problems with metal drivers were mitigated long ago.  In fact, it was Paul Hales' Transcendence series of speakers in the late 90's, using the Seas drivers of the time,  that ameliorated my "fear" of metal drivers.

I'd never heard sound so smooth, so utterly grain free and timbrally beautiful as when I encountered those speakers (I ended up with the Hales T5 floor standers, now gone, but I still own the Hales T1 and T Center channel speakers using the same seas drivers, similar to the Josephs, and they have this purity.  I find the Joseph speakers improve on this with some greater dynamics and clarity).

Prejudice is a very useful tool in life but sometimes, especially in audio, it can blind us from seeing what we may actually be ardently searching.

The Pulsar 2's according to Joseph Audio's website feature "a newly developed precision cast Graphene coated Magnesium cone long throw woofer". 

A few years ago this statement would have set several alarm bells ringing (sorry!) in my head. Until recently I had never heard a metal driver which sounded entirely natural or life-like - and I had heard a few, including some highly acclaimed Vivid Audio models. 

However having recently listened to various Bluetooth speakers using metal drivers I can now appreciate some of their strengths, especially in areas such as clarity, precision and lack of overhang.
Some of the vocals coming through my Tribit X Sound Go Bluetooth speaker were at least as clear as I'd heard on any loudspeaker previously.

Dare I say it, the clarity of diction was as good as that on my Tannoy Berkeley speakers which I believe feature a metal tweeter crossed at 2kHz.

This leads me to conclude that perhaps state of the art metal drivers, at least magnesium ones, have finally kicked ringing artefacts into touch for good, whilst retaining all their usual advantages.

Perhaps this is finally a genuine step forward in the development of loudspeakers? Hopefully it's also one that will eventually trickle into more widespread usage.

There you go, one prejudice now replaced by hopefully a more accurate one.

@smodtactical yes, unfortunately they’re $15K. I probably can’t buy in this life.

@prof yes FLAX. Last weekend. 

celo,
Where did you hear the Perspective2?  Florida show?

@celo  Is 15K the msrp of the perspective 2?

Graphene coating on the Seas is to help prevent oxidation of the magnesium cone I don't think it improves the audio performance but the Seas graphene line also has a new driver. JA also tweaked the crossover. 

@markalarsen 

I recently heard the Perspective2s and they are probably the best speakers I have heard. Pretty much they sound like live performance:) Amazing. Never heard anything like that.

Also, Lars Kristensen like you mentioned, a person with an amazing music selection for demos. That guy probably can setup a $1000 system and make them sound like $10000 :) I was so impressed with the Borresen 01s last year at FL Audio Expo. He picked all the songs. Well, last week at the FL Expo this guy gave him his CDs and the recordings weren't good I guess because they sounded horrible. Regardless, there is NO WAY I am paying $37K for them when I can get the Perspective2s for $15K. Not even comparable.

celo
For sure!

@prof I am very curious how you will like the new Perspective2s. Hope you can find the time to write at least few words here. 

My original-version Perspectives certainly sound amazing!
As do my Thiel 2.7s.  I switch between them.  Love the Thiels though when I listen to them I can miss the juicy, reach-out punchy quality of thePerspectives bass.

@prof I have heard the Perspective2s and could not believe how close they sounded to a live music. It was insane. 

There was some discussion about the graphene coating and IIRC seas also emphasized it's use for preventing, I think, Oxydization especially in certain climates.  So I think there is truth to what gadios wrote.
However, the new Graphene Seas drivers were more than the coating - other aspects of the driver were re-designed, which is one reason the crossovers had to be re-designed/tweaked for their use. 

All together, with the sight changes in the drivers and Jeff Joseph tweaking the crossovers, it makes sense the new Joseph Graphene speakers would have evolved their sound somewhat.
My local JA dealer finally got the graphene Perspectives in so I'll probably hear them this week or next week.

I was recently informed by a well known speaker designer that the reason graphene and other new coatings are being used is to keep the cones themselves from self destructing. So now you will be paying more so the product you buy lasts longer. Okay some logic there but let’s not fall for the ’Improved SQ’ claims.

@gadios — Given what others who have actually heard and/or owned both versions have said, I’d say you have been misinformed.  BTW, I — and I’m sure others here — would love to know which speaker designer told you this stuff.  And, as far as I know, Seas drivers haven’t been known to “self destruct” over time so that reasoning sounds totally absurd. Maybe you should listen for yourself rather than just accepting as truth what someone else says, especially someone who probably has not done an A/B comparison between the two versions.

@gadios I wonder if graphene and non-graphene specs are identical then? 

I was recently informed by a well known speaker designer that the reason graphene and other new coatings are being used is to
keep the cones themselves from self destructing. So now you will be
paying more so the product you buy lasts longer. Okay some logic there but let's not fall for the 'Improved SQ' claims. 

Does anybody know if there is a Joseph Audio dealer in South Florida? Thanks. 

radiohead,

I look forward to reading about your experience with the new Perspectives. I hope I’m in a position to send mine in for the upgrade some time in the next year. But I’m sure enjoying this original pair.

The Perspectives are certainly dynamic. I especially hear this with drummers, where I’m made aware of their emphasis, slamming the bass drum harder for this shot, cymbal splashes jumping out with energy.

Interesting what you say about the Devore Super 9s (as those were on my list to audition - never did) being dynamically restrained and not great for all types of music. I would have thought the opposite (and I think I’ve seen at least one reviewer who felt the opposite).


The JA speakers maintain their signature clarity and ease no matter how complex the music becomes, or as the volume increases. I was actually a bit worried that I’d find them a tad bright and opt for lower volume listening. It’s been completely the opposite. They are so relaxed and pure sounding that I find myself playing them louder, without ears bothering me, than any speaker I’ve owned before.
--------------

riaa,

I myself was tormented in choosing between the JA and the Devore O speakers, so I can completely understand why someone would move from one to the other. The Devores excel in a sense of palpable "in room" texture, density and palpability.

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2019/10/10/the-occasional-podcast-s3e3-jeff-joseph-of-joseph-audio-an...

Good interview with Jeff Joseph from around 23mins in.

He keeps his cards close to his chest (esp regarding assembly techniques) but his story is interesting and seems analogous to the one of John DeVore.

I had spent considerable time auditioning the Devore Super 9 (IMO better sounding than Orangutan). Devore speakers are great esp with how they handle midrange and human voice, sort of like Harbeth kind of way. However, Devore is not a speaker for people whose music taste is all over the map. Playing fast paced music showed that it is constrained when it comes to macro dynamics, bit flat sounding (it has BIG bass though) esp if you are playing rock or pop music. In that regard newer Harbeth 40th Anniversaries are a better match.

The new Joseph floorstanders sounds more neutral. I need to spend time with them to give a better opinion. Soon!

Last year I bought Pearl's off this gentleman in Maryland. He switched to Devore's (The X or one of the Nines) because to him they had greater resolution/detail than the Pearl's. His musical "catalog" was vastly different than mine...mostly Female vocals and lighter stuff. To his ears it wasnt even close as to which speaker put the artist in his listening room. 

I went to CAF and RMAF this year. Both me and my girlfriend (she has better ears than many audiophiles I know including me), thought Joseph Audio Pearl was the best sounding room in RMAF and the Perspective 2 was top 3 in CAF.

I was so damn impressed that I ordered a new pair of Perspective 2 on the spot. I'll get them this weekend. I need some amp recommendation.

Re-visiting this thread since I’ve been happily listening to my JA Perspectives for several weeks.

They continue to stun me with their clarity, resolution and tonal finesse.The upper frequencies are so extended and pure, when certain drum cymbals or tiny chimes/metal triangles etc are played, they have this amazing "pop in the room" presence and super realistic tone.

And wow, the bass quantity and quality!

The comments that intrigue me most about the new Graphene version are that it’s actually more resolution. That’s almost hard to conceive of given how much the original Perspectives seem to be putting out in my room.

You will have to settle for an ear-to-ear grin and goosebumps

I get that from just a cup of tea.  

You will have to settle for an ear-to-ear grin and goosebumps 

Damn, for that price, I expect these small monitors to wet my lips and give me an orgasm.  

Yes setting up subs right can be a hassle.

I use one in a smaller room with Kef ls50 ( also very mbl/Joseph like but small with limited low end extension). Just one located right next to my listening spot. This was the easiest sub setup I ever attempted. Had it locked in to my ears in less than an hour. It’s been about a year now and have not changed a thing.

I did consider a sub, in fact bought two JL subs with the JL audio crossover (was going to use them with my Thiels too). The whole sub thing was such a hassle I put it on hold.
I've hung on to the subs and crossover in case I feel the need to even out the bass in a speaker, for instance if the Joseph speakers prove at all problematic in the bass.

Prof did you ever consider or try them with a sub or two?

Yeah I know.  Small speakers are small speakers.  They can do a lot of nice tricks but not everything. 

Ever hear Ohm Walsh?

mapman,

Believe me, I couldn't let go of the MBLs for the last ten years!  I truly thought I would never sell them as they were a "unicorn speaker"I happened upon for a once-in-a-lifetime price.  But given I switch around my speakers I couldn't help but notice other speakers spending more time in my system, a bit easier-listening, traditional speakers (and some floorstanders like the Thiels with deeper bass).  I'd put the MBLs in and go "wow" for a while, but for whatever reason other speakers would end up as my mainstay.  I actually have a very good room for the MBLs, one designed with an acoustician, and with very good flexibiity in terms of modulating how much reflectivity is happening.  So I dialed in those MBLs really nicely.

I set them up again the night before the buyer was to show up and was again gobsmacked at what they could do in terms of imaging and transparency, even these small MBL 121s could do an amazingly persuasive orchestral spread - very convincing for eyes-closed listening.