New cables - To judge now or after burn in period?

Switch back to the old cables after awhile. See if they sound as dynamic as you remember them to be. 

I agree cables change less than any other component. But some thing like tone arm cable and RCA feeds from a TT take a LONG time..
While they may not sound bad, they sure don't sound the way they will when they are broken in.. No it's not subtle at all..

There just isn't that much going on TO change.  But change they do.

I'm at 300 or so hours on my ZP3 Decware.. He put Audiophile caps in the thing.. They are real junkers to break in and put up with.. I can't tell if it's the cables in the tonearm or from the tonearm (RCAs)  or just a  bad choice in caps.. I'm just letting it play. I have some good surplus PIO. They tell the story in 2 hours.. 400-500 we'll see if the cables improve.

I'm still changing to Copper foils. Sorry to say but I didn't get either upgrade I ask for. Bees Wax caps in the tape section and copper foils in the phono sections..

I have a pair of well taken care of RCA, I know sound good, they have at least 5000 hours on them. Shunyata Research (great cables) Alfa I think.. The most I ever spent on a cable. I remember that.. They were conditioned 21 days...BEFORE the 5k + hours..

Regards

+1millercarbon. If you like the sound from the beginning your ears are going to become better accustomed to the sound as it settles in to your system. 

Right. What you hear right out of the box is basically what you get. Really good cables will improve a lot as they equilibrate, but in a way that is more a refinement of how they start out than a change to something new. I wouldn't call it subtle, as the difference is quite obvious. But neither is it a radical change. The fundamental character is always there right from the start. When people complain or question after several hours, and are being told it needs 100, 200, 400 hours, they are being fed a fable, and nothing more.

" IME, if you don't like what you hear after a couple of hours, and certainly after a couple of days, then you probably don't like the sound of the cable."

mitch2, I agree completely.  A cable won't transform this way.  Break in is a subtle change, and a cable's basic sound signature won't change.  

Are the cables burning (or breaking, or running) in, or are your ears adjusting to what they are hearing, or maybe a little of both?  I have purchased many new cables and have made cables for the past 20 years.  I have used the Audiodharma Cable Cooker to condition both new and DIY cables since 2004 and while I certainly hear differences between different cables, I have never heard a cable that didn't exhibit its basic sonic signature from the beginning, or that improved from bad to good after conditioning on the cooker or after playing music in my system.  IME, if you don't like what you hear after a couple of hours, and certainly after a couple of days, then you probably don't like the sound of the cable.  

IMO, cables do "break in" to a certain extent (e.g. the highs will smooth out a bit, become less strident, bass fills out a touch), but if you do not like the sound of your new cable, no amount of burn in will make it good.  If it's bad, its a system mismatch (or bad cable).  Same goes for all components IMO.

caps and any device with capacitance take a while to form…..and stay formed….partially formed does not sound the same as fully…

some cables configuration, materials are a bear to form. 

play music, run it it, form…enjoy

hint DBS patent will make all this clear….

Semantics aside, Krissy and I listened and clearly heard my new arm sound better and better literally minute by minute. Everything else was thoroughly warmed up but the tone arm wire was brand new zero hours. Even now 20-30 hours in it is still improving. Only those with no experience (or who can't hear) even question this any more. 

I don’t believe in cable burn in. Not going to debate anyone who believes it.

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I wouldn’t either if I didn’t know the difference between the two.

Break In.. NOT Burn in..

If your going to sport the name "mastering"? at least get the verbiage correct.. Break in.. Things BREAK IN...

When someone tells me it has to burn in, I get a fire extinguisher, do you understand..

I won’t even buy from a company that uses the term, unless they sell valves.. I know you have a motor in your car.. A starter motor..

I am a master mechanic.. Cables break in/ settle.. period.. Even in my industry, mechanics chase issues behind just that.. Cables with poor contact and poor quality control.. Light bulbs burn in.. The wiring to them breaks in..

What do you think that goo is for between the bulbs and every plug in a car.. or Excavator that stays running.. Without it it won’t. They settle and make a lot better contact.. SHAKING getting better and better. There is a reason.. It’s not an opinion 16th edition 2003 Electrical Engineers. Read about Nano arcing or micro arcing.

Required reading in my field.. I don’t have to be an engineer to read their books, but it sure help to be a mechanic..

They make sure the stuff works, we make sure it’s used... Engineer vs Mechanic. They put stuff together and prototype we fix what they miss and repair their crazy ideas..

"The young don't always do as they are told" The Nox SG-1 (Sept. 12, 1997) ep. 1.08 :-)

Regards

By the way, what's the difference between SilTech and SilNote cables?  The names sound too familiar.

I think break-in is a more appropriate term for cables. George Cardas uses the term run-in. IMO, burn-in applies to electrical parts such as tubes and capacitors where voltage is actually causing a physical change to the internal structure.

I don’t believe in cable burn in. Not going to debate anyone who believes it.

I said 600 hours because it was 3 times what others were saying (just to be safe). But really, I’m joking about it.

It was a long time ago. Unknown branded RCAs. Haven’t had a dud since.

Your observations are exactly what I would expect from silver interconnects and cables that were not broken in. Having a host of stuff at once makes it a bit hard because of the pressure to evaluate. Take what you take to be the best of them, put them on and play 24 x 7. The bass should develop as the noice floor drops on them after 100 hours. It would be a mistake to make serious observations before you have at least 200 hours. Silver can take a long time to break in. If you are starting to get to like them after a solid 200 - 250 hours… then Don’t decide for another hundred or two.

Yes, this can be frustrating. I have broken in dozens of interconnects and cables. The difference in most good quality ones is very obvious and always an improvement.

Mechanical devices such as headphones, speakers, and cars burn in. (Reach specified or optimal performance) after a certain time.

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Yea.. The only things I know that "Burn In" are valves (tubes).

Things BURN UP, things burn down. But equipment, cabling and certainly CARS BREAK IN..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjo-lHXlp7k

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From my experience, cables don't "burn in." They either work or are DOA. Low-quality cables may also die without warning.

I think 600 hours total with the most power-hungry gear would do the trick. Sorry about your electricity bill.

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So which one is it.. Did you get "Roofied" between post?

If you say YES and NO in the same sentence, you cover all your bases.

:-)

mastering92,

I don’t know what type of cables you use, but they shouldn’t just die.
And, (most) new (quality) cables will get better as they get more hours on them.

As I upgraded my audio equipment, the difference in cables became more apparent.


ozzy

I think 600 hours total with the most power-hungry gear would do the trick. Sorry about your electricity bill. 

You can purchase a couple of 8ohm resistors of the appropriate wattage to act as substitutes for speakers to run your cables in. 

Keep the volume low so you do not exceed the wattage of the resistors and keep them well ventilated as they can get very hot. I normally place the resistors on side plates. 

Sorry for my hamhandedness. . . 

Should read:

Not only did the new ones not sound particularly good but once they began to improve, the perceived gains did not last. In fact, they cycled back and forth several times before finally settling in. I almost gave up on them but I'm glad I stuck it out.

I'd suggest giving them more time.

I purchased my Acoustic Zen silver reference IC's having heard a burned-in pair. 

Not only did the new ones not sound partIn fact, they cycled back and forth several times before finally settling in. I almost gave up on them but I'm glad I stuck it out. 

I agree with those that say give them at least 200 hours of use and leave them be, in other words, no movement at all.

+1 riley804

From my experience, cables don't "burn in." They either work or are DOA. Low-quality cables may also die without warning.

Passing electrons through a cable for many hours won't create a smoother path for the electrons to flow on. The physical properties of the cable and shielding will remain the same; providing you don't modify it.

Mechanical devices such as headphones, speakers, and cars burn in. (Reach specified or optimal performance) after a certain time.

I use 200 hours as a rough rule for cable break in.

ozzy

think back to when you got the QED cables, did they not go through a break in period also ?

not fair to judge two cables when one is broken in and one isn’t 

More break-in time. My Siltech IC's are very revealing and dynamic.
Even cable manufacturers say to allow time for breakin.

Just let them play for a few days straight. Blanket the speakers for 48-72 hours. But don't listen.. Then remove the blankets at 48 and then at 72..

If you aren't getting happy.. you sure should be.. Don't be moving the cables let everything settle. Copper with silver clad or pure silver 200-400 hours, copper 50-100 (at the most). Its more the dielectric than the actual wire.. OFF the ground.. Wooden blocks I don't care.. UP, It's easier to clean.

Have fun it's actually a requirement. :-)

Regards

Definitely give them some time to break in, they may improve and change some. Siltech makes excellent cables it's worth waiting to see what happens with them. Also after a while swap your QED's in and compare again.