Need Opinions for Different Cable Manufacturers/Cable Designs

Tried many, best to buy used for value. I re-wired my system with AQ Water interconnects and they are very good, especially at the recent closeout pricing. Enjoying the Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval 9 bi-wire I recently got in.

discount high value cable manufacturers:

• Albedo 
• Darwin
• Empirical Designs 
• LAVRICABLES 
• RSX
• Silversmith Fidelium 
• Vogue Audio
• Zavino

Save your money on the Fidelium speaker cables and use that money towards IC's. In your list, Audience IMHO is the finest, trailed by Purist. You cannot go wrong with Audience. Neal

+1 on Silversmith Fidelium cable.  I’ve used AQ Rocket 88, Raven Soniquil, and custom cables from Mogami cable to connect my Odyssey monoblocs to my Fyne F-702 speakers.  When I hooked up the Fidelium cables the improvement was simply astounding and instantaneously evident.  They are not inexpensive, but neither is the price stratospheric.  The company has a trial period, but I realized in 30 seconds these were “keepers.”

Looking to spend up to $2,000 for 3m speaker cables and up to $700 each for RCA and XLR cables. Again, I hope to buy used.

 

"""I am interested in opinions on the following RESELLERs:

AUDIENCE

DH LABS

PURIST AUDIO DESIGN

SILNOTE

SNAKE RIVER"""

Fixed it for you.

You don't spend that much money for cables if you're not Elon Musk.

Try Amazon the WBC 7awg for your speakers. So many good audio cables under $100 over there you just need to do some research.

For your set up OP audience is the one I like most. But Nordost Heimdall or Frey might work, Tellerium cables ultra black and above.

@squared80 -

             "... fall back on science and objective facts."

              Let's hear/read some of the that, that establishes/proves this:

     "Get cheap 12AWG OFC cables; nothing else you buy will sound better."

                                               

No one can tell you whether/how your system, room and/or ears will respond to some new addition.   There are simply too many variables.      LIKEWISE: no one can possibly know whether a new addition (ie: some kind of disc, crystal, fuse, interconnect, speaker cable, etc)  will make a difference, in their system and room, with their media and to their ears, without trying them for themselves.         Some companies offer a 30 Day Satisfaction Guarantee, so- those that are actually interested, have absolutely nothing to lose by trying (experimenting with) such.           Anyone that knows anything about the sciences, realizes that something like 96% of what makes up this universe, remains a mystery.             For centuries; humanity’s seen, heard, felt and otherwise witnessed phenomena that none of the best minds could explain, UNTIL they developed a science or measurement that could explain it.           The Naysayer Church wants you to trust their antiquated science (1800’s electrical theory) and faith-based, religious doctrine, BLINDLY (their credo: "Trust ME!").       Theories have never proven or disproven anything.  It’s INVARIABLY testing and experimentation that proves or disproves theories/hypotheses.         IF you’re interested in the possibility of improving your system’s presentation, have a shred of confidence in your capacity for perceiving reality and trust your own senses: actually TRY whatever whets your aural appetite, or- piques the curiosity, FOR YOURSELF.                                The Naysayer Church HATES it, when THAT happens!

 In fact, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a $5k cable and a coat hanger.

      Thus speaketh the typical (self-appointed/self-deluded) Denyin'tology pundit.

                                  All they left out was, "Trust ME!"

          

It would be difficult to form a $5K Cable into a Coat Hanger, there's one difference.

It would also be a difficult subject and one that would get a lot of backlash, if one was informing on their intending on spending $5K on a Coat Hanger 

Stay away from snake oil opinions and fall back on science and objective facts. Get cheap 12AWG OFC cables; nothing else you buy will sound better. In fact, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a $5k cable and a coat hanger.

@squared80 -

 "Put down the snake oil and join the science team, where quantifiable facts matter. "

         Yet another example of of willful ignorance, or- is it (actually) ignorance of the truth/facts/science, gleaned since the 1800's, regarding electricity?

                                         Worthy of only one, "tsk!"

         

Surprised that no one has even suggested using a McIntosh cable when you are using McIntosh equipment. I use a pair of cables from McIntosh to alleviate some perceived brightness between my preamp and amp. They are readily available on Crutchfield and carry a 60-day return policy, so there is no risk. Right in your wheelhouse at $600. 

Similarly, I use a Rega phono cable for my Rega P6. For me, if a mfg green lights a particular cable to use for their equipment, it makes sense to take advantage of it as there will be no surprises. You are simply engaging in the sound that the mfg has touted.

In addition, I purchased the McIntosh RCA's a few years ago and they are still priced the same. Ala their equipment, their cables also keep their value, which further reduces risk. 

Put down the snake oil and join the science team, where quantifiable facts matter. 

The only fact I see here is whoever would state this clearly doesn't have a clue about science. 

What's the matter, are you guys loosing members from your denial club? Are some former flat-earthers now actually thinking for themselves and listening to different components in their hi fi in order to improve the enjoyment of it, instead of obeying preachers who keep telling them everything sounds the same? 

$2000 for 3M cables? Come on, man. Put down the snake oil and join the science team, where quantifiable facts matter. Get some 12AWG OFC speaker wire and be done with it. Then spend the remaining $1900 on some upgrades that might actually do something for you. 

Just about every cable will sound differently in each system.  In some systems, cable A may sound better than cable B, but in another system, cable B works better than cable A.  Trial is the only way to tell.  Personally, I found that the cheapest OFC cables worked best for my current system, but in my old system, the more expensive cables sounded better, because I had equipment that needed moderating in my old system.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/audio-envy-dang

Pindac

Thanks for the response. I'll do some more research that you suggested, and probably reach out to you for some more help. I can surmise that like in all things (resistors, caps, connectors, inductors, etc.), higher quality will yield better results

@kinarow1

Cannot afford the best each manufacturer has to offer. Looking to spend up to $2,000 for 3m speaker cables and up to $700 each for RCA and XLR cables. Again, I hope to buy used.

....i will do more listening today, but I must admit to being stunned by the overall sound quality improvement. The Fidelium cables have made listening to music even more enjoyable. I am quite sure there are other cables that do the same, but, for me, such a significant improvement at what in today’s market is a reasonable cost is both remarkable and quite enjoyable.

By the way, the company has a 30-day return period, but it took me less than 30 minutes (seconds?) to decide these cables are keepers!

I echo what @mike4597 says above, search for more Silversmith Audio Fidelium threads here on A’gon. If you have up to $2000 to spend on speaker cables to my knowledge you cannot beat the Fidelium’s. They are produced in a 10 foot length for $1595 new- as they are bought direct from the manufacturer realize they would retail for twice this if marketed through dealers.

I have been reviewing tons of literature and am intrigued by Cu/Ag and Cu/Ag/Au combinations.

Look up Kapton.

Your receiver is not the most revealing of details (for good and bad) but your speakers may make up for this. I believe if you are currently using "cheap" speaker cables after hearing these in your system you will claim it is "vastly improved". And hey, if you don’t there is a 30 day money back guarantee.

Fidelium

@vthokie83 In your post you stated:

" Others to compare: OCC (Ohno Continuous Cast) RAMM Audio, DH Labs, Zavfino, Furutech, lot's of others, UP-OFC (Ultra Pure Oxygen Free Copper) Viborg and Neotech, Triple-C (Pure Copper Continuous Casting) Furutech, SAEC, and Acoustic Revive, 102SSC (special surface copper) Oyaide, DUCC (Dia Utra Crystallized Copper) Furutech, Alpha Nano (Alpha OFC + nano liquid) Furutech. " 

The PC Triple C is a Wire Type produced by Furukawa, that was a wire designed to Supersede their production of OCC Wire Types. PC Triple C is offered as Pure Copper or as PC Triple C / EX which is a Wire Type that has a High Purity Silver as the outer coat. The Silver is Forge Clad onto the Copper Wire. There is not a process where electrolysis is the coating method.

D.U.C.C Wire is produced by Mitsubishi, as a Manufactured Material it is known as  Mitsubishi High-Purity Copper MOF®-6N8 having 7N-class purity.

I am not sure how you intend on using these Wires, i.e, Single End RCA, XLR, or Power Chord? 

I am an advocate of both Types and extensively tested it over a reasonable period of time in comparisons to OCC, which each Type has successfully superseded the use of OCC. 

PC Triple C for most who I have introduced it to, and made extended periods of loan as well, has been the one to create changes to others plans for Wire used in their Audio Systems.

To date as a result of my own investigations and one carried out by others, some of which I am instrumental in encouraging. I have heard PC Triple C used as a Cart's Tag Wire, Tonearm Wand Wire as a continuous wire from Cart' to RCA's, Umbilical's, Speaker Wire, Speaker Internal Cabinet Wire, Amp's Internal Hook Up Wire and Power Cable.

In relation to Tag Wire, Tonearm Internal Wand Wire, Umbilical's, Speaker Wire and Power Cable. I have been able to experience the Wire used as a comparison Wire, and PC Triple C has always been the preferred wire, even without an adequate Burn In Period allowed for it. 

There are posts in the Gon made by myself, where more can be learnt about the experiences had, and recommendations for a Wire Type, that has been compared to more expensive options and proved the better option as a result of comparisons undertaken. 

D.U.C.C should not be overlooked as a Wire Type, even though it has not proved itself the most attractive option to others I have introduced to it. I have found it to be a extremely important Signal Path Wire when used in conjunction with PC Triple C in the Signal Path.   

I have not heard D.U.C.C as a entirety of a Signal Path Wire as I have with PC Triple C.

In the Helix Cable Thread on this Forum a couple of Cable Builders have tried Triple C and have made it known more was discovered than some of the other Wire configurations used.  

 

After exchanging several emails with Silversmith founder/President Jeffrey Smith, I ordered a 4 ft pair of Fidelium speaker cables to replace my Performance Audio cables using Mogami W3104 cable, which I considered to be quite good. Jeffrey took the time, in several emails, to answer several questions.  I ordered the cables after also reading a number of reviews, including reviews by customers.  I also ordered the bi-wire adapters and the adapters for tight installations, the latter which I ended up using on my two Odyssey mono bloc amplifiers that drive my Fyne F-702 speakers. 
 

After ensuring all connections were properly oriented and sufficiently tight, I plugged in and powered up my amps and put a CD (Moody Blues “On the Threshold of a Dream”) and sat back to listen.  My immediate reaction was WOW!  Both my wife—who is not as “into” listening as am I, although she loves good music—and I immediately noticed several things: first, the music did not seem to be coming from the speakers, and even our Shetland Sheepdog went not to the speaker between them to voice his response.  Placement of vocalists and instruments was behind, between, and beyond the space between the speakers, and there was excellent vertical placement, as well.  I also noticed improvement in the tonal qualities of voices and instruments.  Bass reproduction was also modestly but noticeably improved, being somewhat tighter, and I heard some brief music parts in the lower registers that I had not noticed before, and I am familiar with those parts having played French Horn as a youth in a concert band. Finally, there was a marked improvement in sound quality at lower listening levels.  We then played male and female vocalists, more Moody Blues, and some classical music, including the Akademie für Alte Musik’Berlin’s Symphony No. 6, “Pastorale,” by Beethoven.  Everything we played was, in an admittedly memory-based judgment, significantly improved.

The Fidelium are the most expensive cables I have purchased. Although I have used mostly Morrow Audio level 5, Audioquest, and IceAge Audio cables, the latter being used for power cables.  Jeffrey said he is planning to release interconnects using the same flat/ribbon cable technology, and I am probably going to “have to” try and XLR pair to connect my Bifrost 2/64 DAC to my Rogue Audio RP-7 tube preamp.  I also asked Jeffrey about using his cable for my subwoofer, but he said the improvement for a subwoofer would not be as noticeable with a subwoofer—frankness and honesty that is greatly appreciated.

i will do more listening today, but I must admit to being stunned by the overall sound quality improvement.  The Fidelium cables have made listening to music even more enjoyable.  I am quite sure there are other cables that do the same, but, for me, such a significant improvement at what in today’s market is a reasonable cost is both remarkable and quite enjoyable.

By the way, the company has a 30-day return period, but it took me less than 30 minutes (seconds?) to decide these cables are keepers!

Stay away from Nordost then, as life with Nordost begins with their Vahalla 2 series and goes up to Odin 2, however, all of those will be out of your price range even used, anything less than Vahalla 2 cables won’t make any sonic difference for you unfortunately... I don’t have any experience with any other cables, see everyone’s recommendations that own those products. What I personally found is (power cables) should be your # 1 priority , then speakers, and lastly interconnects, my interconnects made only a marginal difference maybe 3%, in hindsight I would not have spent the money for interconnect cables.

 

Good luck there are a lot of others responding who can help you. If you have an opportunity to demo before you buy I would highly suggest that...

 

Norm

For your interconnects, silver - pure, soft temper silver, not plated on copper, is by far the most accurate conduit for musical information. In a twisted-pair configuration without a coaxial shield, and passing inside inside a loose Teflon insulator, this cable can achieve incredibly low capacitance - meaning the signal passing through it will not be hindered or colored in any was. Transparent as fine crystal.

That’s the basic science - and being that this cable is a relatively simple design, it will be well within your budget.

So who makes this wonderful interconnect?

Take a visit here, and check the specs. reviews, and user comments: -
and see what you think.

https://silversolids.com/

 

Best Bang for the Buck.......Morrow Cables......Completely upgraded my 25K system. Highly recommended.

I would like to comment on an experience I had, not with cables, but an electrical outlet. Jonathon Spelt at Ultra Fidelis in Wauwatosa WI helped me upgrade my system with Vandersteen VLR Carbon speakers, REL T7 subwoofer, Aurender N200 music server, and full Audioquest cables. He also sold me an NRG Edison outlet, which I did not immediately install because, well, I was lazy and how much difference could it make anyway?

I recently installed the outlet and, oh, my, what a difference it made! The individual sounds became more focussed in space and there was more empty space around them. I could go on with the usual superlatives, but I just wanted to say, don't stop with the cables!

Blue Jeans Cable Belden 10 gauge. Beautifully finished, practical connectors. 

Money no object buy stranded gold. Gold is used in airbag connectors. 

Silver tarnishes. Buy it only if you like cleaning it on a regular basis. 

I installed a $50 gold plated AC outlet for my system. 

I am an alumnus of an automotive technology school in Silicon Valley so my emphasis is on utilitarian durability and continuity. I was a Butler for a billionaire and his system was the same mentality. It's not art on the wall or medieval furniture. It's a cable. 

 

 

Another high recommendation for Fidelium Cables....

Regarding copper cable quality, there are lot's of good options that make great cables....some recommendations here are UPOCC (Ultra Pure Ohno Continuous Cast), which is commonly from Neotech.....great cable.

Others to compare: OCC (Ohno Continuous Cast) RAMM Audio, DH Labs, Zavfino, Furutech, lot's of others, UP-OFC (Ultra Pure Oxygen Free Copper) Viborg and Neotech, Triple-C (Pure Copper Continuous Casting) Furutech, SAEC, and Acoustic Revive, 102SSC (special surface copper) Oyaide, DUCC (Dia Utra Crystallized Copper) Furutech, Alpha Nano (Alpha OFC + nano liquid) Furutech

I have no current comparisons for the above cables, but I am interested in the technologies. I've bought a reasonable amount of each type, and over the next year will be DIYing speaker and power cables with them. Not sure what the results will be, but it'll be an interesting none the less

Did you explore Straightwire? Great stuff. Great customer service. No I don't work there nor am I paid by then lol  

For my horn speakers Anticables Level 3 power cables.

Couple thoughts:

First, I think you're on the right track. Having had my own system significantly improved/refined by upgrading my cables, I've reluctantly accepted that cables are too important to be disregarded.

A comment about the idea of "end game cables". There are such things, but usually they are simply the best and most expensive cables a person has tried up to that time that has satisfied their expectations. It means "I've stopped worrying about cables. (Maybe forever. Maybe until I get another itch to scratch.)

For me it was Cardas Neutral Reference. I'd never heard a single pair of cables make such a difference. I eventually ended up with a full loom of them (not including power cords). I was amazed that 20+ year old interconnects would still be (for me) kind of expensive - but not really expensive compared to new or newer cables.

I strongly encourage you to purchase used. And, if at all possible, try before buying.

One more word of advice, since you started this thread, is to not be satisfied with anything that doesn't sound like the big upgrade you're looking for. My cables really brought out the capabilities of my system. And I learned that many times when people are complaining about the way a component sounds there is a big possibility that an inappropriate cable is what they're hearing.

Track down that review of the Cardas Neutral Reference on Positive Feedback. I'm not suggesting that you'll end up with them, but it's a thought provoking, well written piece and reflects my own experience in this journey.

 @kinarow1 I have extensive experience with DHLabs cables and you can’t go wrong with them. Great bang for your buck! In my experience, you can do better if you spend more. I also have used Audience ICs; in my system, they sounded thin and I resold them after extensive auditioning. I know you didn’t ask for other cable recs, but for what it’s worth…I’ve used a wide variety of cables priced within your budget used, including Harmonic Technology, Acoustic Zen, virtual Dynamics, PureNote, Kimber, DIY Neotech and Furutech. Each product had virtues and limitations. I ended my cable experiments nearly 10 years ago, after stumbling across a pair of VonGaylord Chinchilla ICs. I am not a fan of their power cords, but VonGaylord IC cables bring the best out of my system. You can find used Chinchilla for prices well within your budget. My experience auditioning cables is quite some time ago and there may be better options available now, but the VonGaylords are worthy of an audition.

Be patient. Used examples of all the cables you listed eventually will be offered on online marketplaces. I’ve bought and sold dozens of used cables. If you’re careful, you will recover your money when you resell. I’ve had good experiences using the Cable Co lending library.

Good luck and good listening!

I have tried most of the best cables in the industry. Too many to list and most of what has been mentioned here. End game cables are made by Inakustik. A German manufacturer that has done a lot of research whose designs have been proven in recording studios throughout the world. 

I am also going to mention taking a look at some of the brands that @kennyc mentioned - Iconoclast and Zenwave. I do also use AcousticZen Hologram speaker cables as well and am impressed with their musical and open presentation.

While design is critical with cables, I have come to believe that using UPOCC copper and silver can really improve sound quality. I had some Iconclast TPC interconnects and recently compared them to their UPOCC cable (same exact design, just different copper) and the UPOCC was definitively better.

I also have recently had the opportunity to listen to a new Zenwave all UPOCC silver interconnect and it is a keeper. Dave at Zenwave is great to talk with and can guide you through his whole line at different price points. He is very focused on making great cables at different levels using the best quality cable and connectors he can.

OP

For affordable OCC copper cables, look at Zavfino....excellent copper and geometry and affordable. Also Anti-Cables Flex 4.2 are excellent and reasonable

I am not going to recommend a make, though I have Focal Utopia’s and what I use does sound excellent with them, but might push your budget because you don’t tend to find them used, for good reason.
What I do suggest is that whilst good design of experiment says "change one item at a time" the issue in most hifi cases is you will not see the full improvement until you have removed, or at least balanced out the bottlenecks though the system. I had bought an upgraded AES/EBU (within a dCS Vivaldi system) and a pair of same make XLR’s for variable output DAC to Vitus Power AMP. But was waiting on my Speaker cable upgrade and in the interim had been lent a pair of speaker cables from the same manufacturer but 2 grades down from the AES / XLRs.
Whilst the speaker cable made some improvement of the previous I was disappointed (less experience at that point) in the difference of swapping the AES/XLR’s in and out with against the ’basic’ Van Damme cables that had come with the dCS, However, when the speaker cable (and also actually a clock cable) were upgraded to the same level I could then hear a significant improvement.

So whether you home trial or find a dealer who has Sopra 2/3’s for an initial trial I would make sure you are getting them to either step up through a full system cable up grade, in either case start at base with your cables or same level if at dealer and then:

1 Increment speaker cable

2 Increment XLRs

Repeat loop until no further improvements, or you don’t trust yourself with the price increase on the next one.... but you will still have to know.

Of course according to naysayers it will never change and according to the (sometimes correct) diminishing returns fans it will reach an asymptote.

However, one situation that can confound the asymptote is when there is a change in for example the dielectric in an upper level cable. Then that can (and IMO and all who have experienced it in my system does) produce a bigger change than the still appreciable increment of those lower down in the range.
Happy testing.

Here's one. Get simple, affordable 12AWG OFC wires and you're set for life. That's all you need. Anything on top of that is pure marketing, and in many cases, the 'bells and whistles' some companies add on actually introduce noise. 

Choose science over snake oil, man.

Another vote for Cardas. Got the Clear Rev.1 for RCA and it blew me away. Tried some Clear reflection speaker . Not as good as Clear rev1 . Another one is Luna. Not very well known yet. But one of the best ratio price quality . 

PS, I agree with other comments that you dont need to mortgage your house on speaker cables because the returns will be de minimis. If cables are your thing, better to spend on interconnects because there is a much greater audible difference between low end and high end interconnects. 

My suggestion is that you don't spend your hard earned money on any set of cables unless you are able to first try them in your system. Many retailers will allow you to do this if you leave a deposit. Listen to each brand and go with the ones that sound the best to your ears. 

I currently have Kimber, Silversmith Audio FIDELIUM and Micca cables. They each sound a bit different but are well matched to my system. It is good to have a few different pairs handy because over time if your ears get tired of a particular cable, you can quickly change them up. 

The Miccas in particular are interesting because they are $40/pr on Amazon and sound awesome! 

 

 

 

 

 

Cables are like woofer coils. It's  copper and how much.  

@kinarow1 - take a look at Zavfino silver cables - they will improve your system greatly.

If you really want TOTL take a look at Hijari

Ask your question in this thread - they will be able to help

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/hijiri-users-thread-2

If you are more budget oriented take a look at Audio Envy - great cables made more affordable

Regards - Steve

 

High value maybe bargain speaker cables:

• Silversmith Fidelium
• Kirmuss Adrenaline 

 Other safe quality SC options:

• Iconoclast
• Zenwave SCR-14/11

Learn about cable design here             
FYi- Silversmith will be offering interconnects soon, maybe available now             

I’m not saying don’t get nicer cables. But, unless your current cables are really bad, too thin, aren’t making a good connection or damaged, don’t expect significant improvements let alone “vast”. Any differences a cable can make, again, assuming there’s nothing really wrong with your existing ones, are very subtle. IMO anyone who says the differences between 2 decent quality, properly made cables is night and day, is exaggerating a bit. Just my opinion though. Having tried quite a few myself, from $150 to $3500.

 

I have come to see nice (expensive) cables as 98% cool audio jewelry. Nothing wrong with that. Just don’t expect huge improvements.

Kinarow1,

I'm not going to try and sell you on another cable line but I would take a serious look at Triode Wire Labs...

I've been using them for almost 5 years and love what they do, they should check all the boxes on your list.

I have used many cables in the past including Purist Audio Design and Snake River Audio both "Very Good" but you can buy the TWL cables for less than your estimated budget, and be very happy from my personal experience.

Check out some of the reviews on TWL and go from there.

Good Luck in finding your Musical Happiness.

Tom

 

Hi,

I am not an expert but can tell you that I went all in with DH Labs cables and my system felt bright, a bit tinny and lacking in depth. Then I tried just one Snake River Audio cable (the Boomslang SPDIF). I was literally blown away. Since then I have been slowly replacing all my cables with SRA. Surprisingly, changing the ethernet cables to SRA also had a huge positive effect.

The SRA power cables bring a sense of depth and calm to music. It is not like they add anything, rather they strip away sterility.

Oh, and I have the Focal Sopra 2s...

 

The Cable Company has a library where one can audition cables so you can find the cables that fit your wallet and system. Happy hunting

I have Audience Au24SE speaker cables and RCA interconnects in my system. I'm also using their Studio One jumpers. The Au24SE's are, of course, an older version of these cables but I'm very pleased with them and not in any hurry to upgrade. Previous cables included Cardas Golden Reference, Clarus Aqua, and Analysis Plus Big Silver Ovals. The Audience cables offer me so much more of what I want to hear: richness without compromising detail and a quality that I especially appreciate: "composure," (for lack of a better word). What I mean by this is that there's a controlled presentation up and down the frequency spectrum that doesn't descend into harshness or brashness when the music gets dense or complicated. My previous cables didn't accomplish this anywhere near to the extent that the Audience cables do.

I've seen the Au24SE speaker cables used for under 1K (though this is for 1M lengths) and the current Au24SX ones going for between $1500 and $2000. (There's currently a 3M pair of these for sale on the "other" site for just under 2K). 

Hope you find this helpful.

I, also would add Shunyata to the list.Try to audition first,at different price points.