Need feedback on loudspeakers

The ProAc D48R are in the house. I am pretty thrilled. They are pretty heavy. My wife helped me carry them to the listening room in the basement. She also helped me unpack and set them up. She supports my hobby and I simply cannot imagine following this hobby without her. Listened to the speakers for 15 minutes and I love what they are doing. Currently they are being "run-in" using Nordost's System setup CD, track 47 (System Burn-in).
The quest now begins to find the best spot for the speakers and the listening chair.

I had mentioned the Magnepan 3.7i and that is a great speaker, but I will add the Vandersteen Treo. Both are truly musical and wonderfully warm but laid back.

Thanks @knownothing .

Good choice!

@kosst_amojan,
I found out that the Parasound A21 can easily drive the Focal loudspeakers like 1038, 1028 etc. But I am glad that I reached a decision after a long time. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

@almarg,
Thank You so much for your inputs and suggestions along along the way. You did help me arrive at the current choice. As many of the members on this forum know, your knowledge and guidance is very valuable to all the members!

Congratulations in advance, Milpai!  I'm sure you'll be very happy with the new speakers.  And kudos for the thoroughness of your explorations which led to this choice.

Best regards,
-- Al
 

Thank You @james_w514 and @mesch .

Milpai, Been following your thread and I am very impressed with the effort you have made to find 'the' speaker for you.  I wish your the best with your choice.

Folks,
Wanted to close this post by letting you know that the decision has been made. My ProAc D48R in Ebony are on order. Should get them by end of November or start of December.

Folks, I visited about 5 dealers yesterday to audition different loudspeakers. One thing I realized that, loudspeakers are simply user preferences. No loudspeaker is great and no loudspeaker is bad. How can a brand X, which so may people love, be so bad as some people make it seems. 
With that said, I listened to Dynaudio Contiour 60, Spendor D7, ProAc D30RS, D48R, Sony, Sonus Fabre, PSB T3. My 2 narrowed down choices were theSpendor D7 and the ProAcs. I was amazed by the Spendor D7. These are diminutive speakers that throw a large soundstage. They all go deeper and sounded full. I have read various forums that put them as "bright" or "harsh" sounding. No way. But here's the deal. In front of them, they had an all MBL system with amps, preamp and the cdp that cost at least between $25-$30k. The cables were Stealth that cost probably more than my entire current system.
Now the D30RS were in a humbler system which comprised of a Naim all-in-one player/amp. The cables were also some normal ones (which I did not check, since it did not call for attention). The D30RS sounded pretty good, but slightly darker than the Spndors. So I am confused at this point in time as to which loudspeaker would be better.
With this information, please provide me your feedback on your experience with the 2 loudspeaker. I should also mention that the ProAcs produced the best vocals amongst all the loudspeakers.

So, I went on a road trip to listen to couple of loudspeakers. At the first dealer, it was PSB Imagine T3 Vs B&W 804D3 Vs Pioneer S-1EX. The front end was a Pioneer DVD player whose optical out was to a McIntosh integrated with a built-in DAC. Cabling was Nordost. Started with the BWs and found that they are not exciting, but portray recordings as-is. Seems pretty neutral. The first CD was Dire Straits BIA (xrcd). Somehow the bass was not strong. But the high frequencies were extended. Then switched to PSBs, whose bass was much better, but not as good as I remembered as on my own SACD at home. So we switched to Eva Cassidy - What A Wonderful World. I know this song so well, and it made comparisons much better. Also bass was good on this recording. I wanted to like the PSBs, but the bass seems to overwhelm the room and (probably because of this) the high frequencies were not as extended as the B&Ws. But the B&Ws seemed to do everything better than when I heard them last time at another dealer. The "presence" on the B&Ws was pretty good - could bring goose bumps, if they would be carefully placed in my room. Lastly switched to the Pioneers. These also loaded the room. I found the PSB and Pioneers sound like thick syrup, unlike the B&Ws which were agile, albeit slightly lesser bass.
Next day headed to another dealer who stocks Focals. Unfortunately the 1038s were not around, but the Sopras 2 were and I was impressed by the demo. I did not find the Be tweeters bright. The front end was a Simaudio CD player and Hegel pre/power amp. I found out that this dealer also stocked Harbeth. So I decided to take a listen to the 3 of them that ranged from $5k-$7k. This demo changed my impression of Harbeth. My experience was bad from AXPONA 2015. But these were really musical speakers and compared so much more favorably to my Quads. The CDP was Line Magnetics and the integrated was the limited edition VPI. I liked the way they imaged, their sound stage and the bass they produced, for their size. I liked the $5k ones better than the $7k ones.
The road trip was worth it, and I am looking forward to go to AXPONA again this year.

@kalali,
Why do you think the price of a component would ALWAYS determine it's performance? It sometimes does but not always. My $1.6k preamp spanks a $4.5k preamp. And this was a personal experience in my own system. I also heard the B&W 804D3s, which is more expensive than the T3s. I would take the T3s any day over the B&Ws.

I’m sorry if I missed some of the details but the SF O3s cost almost twice as much as the PSB T3s. Did you really expect them to compare or come close sonically? Something like a B&W 802D or Revel Studio2 would have been a fairer comparison.

@carmenc, I have not been to Chicago recently. But if I do, then I will update this thread to update my experience.

@mtrot , I did listen to some Legacy loudspeakers during the AXPONA 2015. I believe they sounded pretty nice. I will stop by again if I visit Chicago area and listen to them at a dealer. Thanks for the recommendation.

For $7K, you may be able to get into a set of the new Legacy Audio Signature HD, which uses "the same Dual Air Motion Tweeter System and 7" midrange as the Focus SE".   If you are going to Illinois, you might want to visit them in Springfield.

http://legacyaudio.com/products/view/signature-se/

I have a set of the old Signature IIs from the 1990's, and it is difficult for me to go into an audio store and listen to any current speakers in that price range from Dynaudio/Sonus Faber/Focal/PSB/Revel etc., and feel like I would be upgrading very much.

Last Friday, I was able to audition a set of Dynaudio 3.4 at an audio shop in Austin, and they had a better defined mid range, as they should because the Signatures have old poly woofers, but had nowhere near the bass extension of the Legacy Signature IIs.  We then hooked up a set of the Sonus Faber Olympica 1, and they were ok, but I think I may prefer the Dynaudio "house sound".

@milpai ....have you taken your journey to Chitown to do some auditioning?  Curious as to what you discover.  The Spendor D7 and Proac d30r seem like great speakers!  Keep us posted.  Regards......

mr_bill,
Thanks for the info. I am planning to do a road trip to visit some dealers in the Chicago area where I can actually listen to the D7. In the same trip I plan to cover some ProAc and PMCs as well.

cholera,
Thank You for the detailed feedback between T3 and O3. I did like the O3s, though they were a bit o the warm side - nothing wrong with that. But it is their nominal impedance that bothers me. Having a TVC, I have to be very careful of matching loudspeakers in my system. It is funny that on another forum there is a post where a poster liked the T3s better than the O3s. So I feel it is a matter of preference. Hence I have decided to make the road trip to listen to as much loudspeakers as I can. Ultimately I have found that unless a dealer room is not properly treated or speakers are not correctly placed, you will not find what a loudspeaker is truly capable of. Even after listening to quite a few loudspeakers, I come home and find that my current loudspeakers do a fine job. I am sure, if I get any pair of the speakers I mention above, then they would sound fabulous in my room when I carefully take time and place them. It is the "flavor" of sound that I want to nail and settle down.
I have the Parasound A21 amplifier and have been much happy with them. I recently changed ALL my cables (except power cables) to Clear Day.

FWIW, I demo'd the Sonus Faber Olympica III and PSB Imagine T3 side by side and from what I heard, there is no comparison. Not that more money necessarily means a better product, but the O3 tweeter and in-house developed cross-overs, technology, construction and design truly set it apart. A local audio store helped me with the comparison. Both speakers were hooked up to Bryston amp/pre amp set up (not sure model), set at same sound settings, and played the exact same digital FLAC playlists from opera, Movie soundtracks, vocal jazz, instrumentals, rock, rap and metal. I spent about an hour with each pair.  Without a doubt, the O3s had such a tremendous presence with wide soundstage, open sound, clarity and precision that the PSB just couldn't keep up with. PSB makes a good speaker, but not great when compared to these from SF. They sounded muddled and boomy, with a decided lack of depth and dimension,  The vocal clarity wasn't there, and the midrange was cloudy sounding.  I don't pretend to know about the technical side of sound and how to sonically compare and describe the differences--you just have to sit and compare for yourself. 

I owned pair of SF Venere 3.0 for about a year and a half, and knew I wanted to stay with this brand at least for now.  I liked the sound of the Venere, and these were my first foray into better quality speakers.  My set up is 18X15 room with furniture that acts as acoustic treatments, one James 15 inch subwoofer EMB-15 I believe, KimberKable and preamp/amp from Marantz 8801/8807.  Obviously not super high-end equipment to drive these, but I want to get to know the sound with what I have first, then change things up a bit.  I did end up purchasing the O3 from classified from this site (The seller, suspect1977, was tremendous by the way). I can't tell you how happy I am with these speakers--a logarithmic improvement in sound. I think the Marantz amps provide enough power, and to my ears, sound as good as I remembered the Bryston sounding. A big jump in price, but everyone has their pressure points and desire to improve just a little more...These speakers will be with me for a while, and I'll explore different amps or cables along the way.

PS> If anyone cares to suggest upgraded amp/preamp pairing with these speakers, I'm all ears.:)  Since I just blew a wad of cash on these speakers, lets keep the price range say 8-10K? For NEXT YEAR...

I've heard the D7 and it is outstanding. 

Drove about 3 hours to a dealer who carries Sonus, Focal and B&W besides a few others. He did not have the Olympica II, so I ended up listening Olympica III with Devialet 200 and BlueSound Vault. Cabling was probably Nordost Valhalla or one level below. The sound was musical and surprisingly warm. Bass was pretty nice and the room was treated. But this is as-of-now out of my budget. Since they had the B&W 804D3s, I listened to these as well. This was partnered to Plinius integrated and Vault. Again, cabling was by Nordost. Unfortunately it was a a disappointment. The sound was no where as musical to the Sonus. In fact my existing loudspeakers are more musical. I WANTED to like the 804D3, since it was somewhat close to my budget. But somethings are not meant to be. The speaker may be fine, I think; but personal tastes differ.
Also over the past week, I did reach out to Jay from Audio Revelation, as some of you had suggested. What a fine person - very courteous and patient. Even when knowing that I might not be a potential customer (I had mentioned I was not from his area), he took time to explain the different lines that he carried, what I should look for and even responded to all the emails I had sent. I had considered the ProAcD30R and am stil considering the D48R, since I am looking at long term and not changing loudspeakers immediately. But for my room he recommended the D30R.
I am now wondering if anyone has had a chance to compare the Sonus Faber Olympica II/III with the PSB T3, the Spendor D7 and the ProAc D30R.

So, I visited the local dealer to audition Revel and Totem. Unfortunately the F208 and Forest Signatures were not available. But I auditioned the F206 instead, with the CDs I bought along. I really liked the F206. It did not sound forward, had ample bass, even though it was being driven by a Sony flagship receiver and not really a pre/pro combo. I never thought front-ported loudspeakers could generate so much bass. The dealer then suggested me to listen to Totem Elements Fire bookshelves, that cost twice the F206. I found the speaker to be too forward for my taste and the bass was not enough. This speaker was driven by Parasound P5/A21 combo with a Blu-Ray player. The speaker did some good imaging; but like my previous experience of the Element series, I was under-impressed. Maybe some folks like speakers with "hot tweeters", but it was not my cup of tea. I am wondering how the F208 would compare with the F206. Then I went about checking other rooms and found the GE Triton 5. I auditioned this one too, but it simply did not rock my boat. At the end of the auditioned the dealer mentioned a special deal on Revel flagship Salon 2 floor demo. These were really special and sounded great even in a squarish room. This was some speakers that you could keep listening for hours. But even with that special pricing it was way beyond my reach.
I was really impressed with the F206 and I still have a few more loudspeaker to audition, before I make a decision. I am hoping folks here would be able to provide me with more feedback, now that I have at least provided some information on my preference, when it comes to loudspeaker "voicing".

Thanks for the recommendation bassdude. I agree that not all "big names" offer real value. That is why you see the TVC in my system. But some "big names" do deliver the value in spades. Hence you see the other components. I try to listen to the components before making a purchase. I am looking for a floor stander that is not too big in my room.

A lot of great speakers there... but... (there's always a but)... very few speakers image or stage as well as dipole, or open baffle, speakers (or "hybrid open baffle" speakers).  

So... I agree with the suggestion above... to give the Spatial Holograms a try (no risk trial).  The sound of Maggies, but with great dynamics and bass.  

And... very little sounds as good as the new Nola Brio Trio, which are also easy to place.  They do it all at a very reasonable price.  

Or... if you want the "best sound for your money" - try  the Wavetouch Audio Grand Tetons - which "hang with the best."  Though, they are not open baffle speakers they image and stage about as well, with great resolution, dynamics and bass - or, at least, the owners, professional reviewers and show opinions seem to think so.  And, they're efficient, so you could even experiment with some superb tube amps.  

I'm one that believes very few of the "big names" offer real value (superb sound for the money).  These speakers demonstrate that "in spades."

tdimler,
That was supposed to happen today. Unfortunately could not go visit the local dealer who has them, I believe. But will certainly check them out. And yes, it is the same dealer from where I got my A21. Thanks for the recommendation.

Any feedbacks from Revel/Audio Physic/PMC owners?

Give serious consideration to the Revel F208's.  Great sounding speaker I think will be hard to beat in that price bracket.  Beautiful cabinets as well.  Plus, you already have a great amp to drive them.  The A21 is known to be a great match to the Revels.  The Parasound has very high current which Revels are known to like. 

pennsy ,
Also wanted to point out that most folks don't "get" the loudspeaker positions correct in their room. Precise measurements make a HUGE difference. Amplifiers are a distant third/fourth when compared to things like positioning your loudspeakers in the room, acoustic treatments, etc. You can easily make out if one loudspeaker is 1/2 inches incorrectly placed w.r.t. the listening position, when compared to the other, that is placed correctly. My room is purpose built. My current loudspeakers are 10+ years old and I have taken great care to correctly place them. At this point, I know I have extracted the MAX out of them. I want something that I can live with at least for the next 10+ years. I will not be able to afford getting new gear every 5 years, since kids would be heading to college. I would rather spend months researching new loudspeakers, rather than rushing out to buy a new speaker, only to be disappointed.

Thanks knownothing.

hm1, I am hoping to audition the Spendor at some point. Really interested. Way back in 2005, I spoke to a dealer in the Bay Area and for some reason he kind of said that Spendors have peculiar sound that you either like or don't. Never followed-up after that. So will do it this time.

wwaterman2,
The Klipschs and Magnepans are a bit too large for me. But thanks for the recommendations.

pennsy,
I do understand what you are saying. I really take time carefully matching my system and the components I purchase, since I am not a equipment swapping guy. The A21 is a awesome amp that I like and it matches my TVC. The TVC matches active line stage at least up to $4.5K. I experienced that in my system. I am very much happy with my system and can confidently say that I just am looking at loudspeakers at this point.

danvignau,
I will check out if a local dealer has B&W 804s with them. That is the only one I can aim for at this point. But last time I heard these at a shop, with McIntosh gear, they sounded a bit analytic.

bache,
The 002 seems nice loudspeakers, but way out of my range. I would prefer a non-active loudspeaker.

Take A look Bache audio 002 , if you close  to Connecticut   or
Chicago you can get  Listen Or Read The Review in http://hometheaterreview.com/bache-audio-002ab-floorstanding-speaker-reviewed/   

For $7000, I would be all over listening tests of B&W's diamond series.
You can't find a company that had done more actual research, makes their cabinets (now) and drivers, and has the lightest, stiffest tweeter possible with today's technology, diamond dust! 

I own PSB T3 imagines! Pair for a little over 7000.00! Excellent sound, warm , very nice looking! Will tell you this! Theirs a old adage in electronics, a superior amp will make cheaper speakers sing! Buy very expensive speakers and drive them with a medium priced amp and preamp is a waste of money! Watts arnt the issue, it's amperage! Spend your money on a Jeff Rowland amp, then buy moderate speakers !!!!

I own PSB T3 imagines! Pair for a little over 7000.00! Excellent sound, warm , very nice looking! Will tell you this! Theirs a old adage in electronics, a superior amp will make cheaper speakers sing! Buy very expensive speakers and drive them with a medium priced amp and preamp is a waste of money! Watts arnt the issue, it's amperage! Spend your money on a Jeff Rowland amp, then buy moderate speakers !!!!

If you get a chance, take a listen to a pair of Klipsch La Scalas or as said magnapan 3.7. They sound better as they wear in. Yes a little large but sound great.

Seeing you enjoy jazz and classical and are used to a good stable image and deep stage, audition the D7 as well as the new D9. Also hear a classic Spendor ; preferably sp1 in latest incarnation. Best on the true sounds of instruments in a concert hall setting

I have not heard the Spendor or Tannoy's listed, but of the others, I would suggest the ProAc's for your preferences.

To an extent, yes stringreen. One thing is, because of the TVC, I really need to take care of the loudspeaker sensitivity. A loudspeaker with low efficiency might sound great in a system that has a powerful amp and an active linestage. But it might not sound in my system, as I would be close to the max volume level on my TVC. So, specs would matter to a certain extent. I am trying to find genuine experiences of folks on this forum who own some speakers mentioned, that would be worthwhile driving a few hours to audition.

Specifications as you listed mean absolutely nothing.....you must listen and like the speaker you buy.  Any perceived wart not revealed in the specs will eventually become intolerable and a waste of money.

Any feedbacks from Revel/Audio Physic/PMC owners?

dave_b,
No issues at all. I found that a local dealer carries Totem and Revel. I will have a chance to compare the Totem Sigs to the Revel F208. I have heard Revels a long time back and do not recollect their signature sound. But I know many on this forum like Revel sound.

Don't get me wrong either...I don't own Totem speakers now but I have had several of their speakers over the years and was impressed with their dynamic contrast and 3D soundstaging.  Another obvious choice for superior sound reproduction would be the Wilson Sophia 1 or 2 used.  Very few of the other speakers on the list mentioned here can compete with the Wilson speakers.  Remember, the speaker reproduces whatever flows downstream....sometimes a mismatch in quality will high-lite the discrepancy,  

2pysyop,
Thank You for the recommendation of the Magnepans. I am sure they would sound good in the right system. For my requirements, they are simply too large a speakers and they are slightly less efficient than what I am looking for.

dave_b,
Don't get me wrong; the Totems sounded pretty good. I will consider them again when I visit DC next month.

FYI, Totems are renowned for low level dynamics.  If they did not deliver low level excitement than they were not properly fed enough juice.  Macintosh is notoriously over rated and under powered!  Also, use MIT cables if you want to hear music and not just random emphasis in various frequency domains from wires with variable results.

The Magnepan 3.7i is very good. I bet the combo of an A21 and the 1.7i would sound sweet indeed. I have the MMG's and have heard the 3.7. I was astonished by the sound from a good amp.

Thanks for letting me know soix :-)

dave_b,
Last year I auditioned PSB Imagin3 T3 and the Totem Forest Sigs in DC area at the same dealer. I felt it was a unfair contest, since the PSBs were hooked up to the new NAD separates (M series) while the Totems were hooked to some high end McIntosh. The rep was pushing me towards the Totems, when I actually went in to hear the PSBs. That sort of put me off on the Totems. Nevertheless the Totems sounded pretty nice. One thing I did find - you need to really "up" that volume on the amp to get the Totems to sound up to their full potentials. At lower volumes they loose their charm.

carmenc,
You are welcome. Hope you have the same positive experience that I have with Clear Day. As far as I can recall the demo of the Tannoys I had last year at AXPONA, I can very well understand what you mean by the "dynamic" sound of the Tannoys. If I were to guess what you mean, I think they are more upfront than the ProAc - is that right? Looks like I have to do a bit of traveling this summer to listen to a few speakers. One more loudspeakers that impressed me was the LeHave floorstanding model at AXPONA. But it is beyond my budget.

@milpai .....thanks much for the cable advice.  I've read a lot about Clear Day cables and am quite curious.  In your size room, I'd probably try and stretch for the Proac d30r.  They have tighter and better quality bass than the 20r.  The Tannoys are very good though and seem to be at home playing a wider range of music types.  If I listened to mostly vocal and small jazz groups like I used to, the Proacs would be my choice.  Nowadays I mix it up more with various genres and the Tannoys seem to respond better as they're more dynamic.  Tough call really.  Regards......

Totem Forest Signature is very dynamic at even low levels and very spatial...sound staging champs!!

You are one lucky SOB.  There is a pair of Joseph Audio Perspectives for sale here now in your price range that rarely come up used.  They do everything you're looking for.  Hurry.  They won't last long, and you can sell them at no loss if you're an idiot and don't like them (just kidding about the idiot part).  Best of luck. 

carmenc,
Thank You for letting me know about your speaker journey. If you were to go into a room like mine, which of the 2 speakers you would have preferred? The D20R or the DC8? I consider my room as medium, but some might call it small, and I would agree.
As for cables, I suggest that you try to reach Paul at Clear Day cables. Let him know about the speakers your own and he will send you the correct configuration of cables. I found that he does not try to sell you more than what is needed. At the same time, you will be surprised by how excellent his cables are.