Downsizing Speakers in Main Listening Room - Your Feedback on Some options
All,
So I am looking to move to a smaller speaker to allow better low volume listening and possibly a little change in sound quality. I like the sound of my PSB Synchrony 1s at higher volumes - not room shaking but loud enough I am asked to turn it down when other family around <smile!> They could still use bit more bass kick (not thumping loud - just a bit more punch). So I am thinking a higher quality bookshelf for closer, lower volume listening that still has some bite.
My current system is the following: * Speakers: PSB Synchrony 1 * Integrated Amp - Ayre Ax-7e * CD/SACD - Ayre C5xeMP CD Player * DAC - PS Audio DLlll * Sonos Connect * Cables - Morrow MA4 Balanced Interconnects/Morrow SP3 Bi-wire Speaker Cables
Room setup is roughly 16'x20' (one side is open to adjoining room and dining area). Theater sloped higher away from setup -- starting at 7.5' to about 16'. Standard living room with fireplace and windows - hardwood floors, but have the usual rugs and furniture. Speakers are about 8' apart (slight toe in) and about 10' from main sitting position. Done usual minor acoustic tweaks to try to improve sound - within reason as this is the main living room.
Listen to all music genres but country(sorry) -- but most often jazz, rock, world.
Recent speakers I have enjoyed -- Aerial Acoustic 7t and Sonus Faber Olympica I and III. Enjoy the sound of both even though they are different (and different from my PSBs, which again I like as well).
So I am considering the following bookshelf speakers and just a few smaller floor standers (most looking at buying used), budget is max at about $2,500(used):
BOOKSHELF: * Sonus Faber Olympic I, Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor M, Sonus Faber Liuto, Sonus Faber Venere 2.0 * Dali Epicon, Dali Euphonia * Monitor Audio PL100, Monitor Audio Gold 100 (or GSX 100) * Focal 1008 BE * Aerial Acoustic 5t * ATC SCM 11 v2
So while I am expecting to listen to several of these in coming months - probably cannot access all of them -- likely will hear Monitor Audio, Aerial Acoustic, and again Sonus Faber.
So please give me your best feedback on the list above and feel free to comment in any capacity. Thank you for your valuable opinions!
I doubt moving to a smaller bookshelf speaker will give the results you seek, as most are of rather low efficiency. Also, speaker size does not dictate quality of low volume listening.
What you want is a high efficiency speaker with either a sealed or transmission line cabinet. Such speakers typically perform better at low volumes than the ubiquitous ported, medium-sized floor standers, like that of the MA Gold 200.
Helomech - thanks for the advice - I have seen several of the sealed cabinets in the bookshelf size but not in a floor stander. Any recommendations for either size ? Also not familiar with the "transmission line" style cabinet - can you recommend an example as well ? - thank you again for the feedback.
For extreme dynamic punch from a smaller sized package, Zu speakers should be on your list to audition. For a completely different sound, but, particularly good a lower volume, Audio Note speakers are contenders. I personally find all of the Audio Note line to be extremely musical and listenable and don't have to be played particularly loud.
I don't think you can judge how well speakers will play at lower volume by their size. The most dynamic and full sounding system I heard at low volume had speakers the size of small cars standing on their bumpers (horn-based system). My own system, which is optimized for low volume sound is not so miniature either (2' X 2' x 3.5').
@sbleam For your needs/requirements, I would highly recommend a good subwoofer or two to supplement a pair of bookshelf speakers. I was / am in the same situation, and I have gone with a pair of Omega Super Alnico HO monitors which are very efficient, and very real sounding with my 8wpc SET amp. I can get by without using a sub with the Omegas, but I do like to get the bottom octaves at times.
Helomech - thanks for the advice - I have seen several of the sealed cabinets in the bookshelf size but not in a floor stander. Any recommendations for either size ? Also not familiar with the "transmission line" style cabinet - can you recommend an example as well ? - thank you again for the feedback.
Normally I would recommend Klipsch Heresys, but you'd need a sub with them since you listen to a lot of Jazz.
Look into the aforementioned Zu Audio Speakers but also consider Salk Sound, another internet direct dealer.
Also, if you don't mind going the vintage route, a nice pair of classic Advent 1s are extremely good at low volume, especially regarding their bass. If up to spec, they can compete with many modern designs, some north of $2K.
In the end, speakers are very subjective. It's hard to say what will sound good to your ears, in your room.
Zu's with a sub or two would be a nice way to go. I have Omen Bookshelves with a pair of HSU-VTF1 subs. Not bad. I'll probably pair them with Vandersteen 2w's now that the Main Room has the 2wq's. You could look into Vandersteen VLR's as a bookshelf speaker. They and the VSM pair quite well with Vandy subs. Very nice for lower volume listening. B
I was in a similar situation when I sold my house and moved into a loft. I ended up selling my Vandersteen Quatro’s and buying a pair of Harbeth SHL5+’s. All of the Harbeth speakers sound good at low volumes, to me better than any other speakers I have heard. Based on your room size though you would need the Compact 7’s at least and new they are outside your budget. I have seen some used Compact 7’s in that range and they may be a good fit for you. Another speaker that does really well at low volumes is the RYAN 610. They are $1999 new.
For reference I use an Ayre AX-7e with an Ayre Codex and an Aurender N100H for my digital front end . As I live in a loft my open space is around 30x16 with cathedral ceilings. Good Luck!
I recently downsized to smaller speakers but for a different reason. We have a new baby in the house and the system I had my towers in no longer was being turned up to 11. So I “downsized” from Paradigm Prestige 95Fs to Focal Sopra 1s with zero regrets. Clearly they don’t have the low end the floorstanders had but everything else is so much better it was a worthwhile move. If they sound anything like the Sopra, the 1008Be is definitely worth a look. In my situation though I’m currently putting together another system in a separate space and will most likely be utilizing Focal Sopra 3s.
Well, this is my first post and I am a true novice compared to most of you. But, I just bought the Liuto Monitor and paired it with a Rel zero subwoofer. I have a SS Burson Timekeeper throwing 80 watts per channel. As this is my first real stereo set up and coming off headphones, I'm not sure what I was expecting but wow, impresive. my room is about 13x20 open in the back. I'm surprised at how much of a wall of sound I have even at low listening. Big sound stage and the base just pops it a bit. Not a lot of other experience with speakers but I am amaZed. I listen to a lot of Prince who if your not familiar is notorious for throwing multiple vocal harmonies and real instruments across his music. These Liutos are butter on the vocals and pop the base strings. I'm surprised at all the musicality on the stage. What a great hobbie. I read a lot on the Liuto monitors. Supposedly better (more lively)than the floor standing and more velvet and smooth than the Venere.
Thank you all for some great items to consider - sealed cabinets. Zu, Harbeth, Salk and others. Happy to hear a few of those on the list are of interest to follow-up with as well -- Focal Sopra, Sonus Faber Liutos. Also figured if I went with a smaller bookshelf a sub (or 2) could come into the mix. Happy to continue to get recommendations <smile!>
Thanks again - I know there is no alternative to listening yourself but great to have some feedback from others going through similar evaluations.
You should check out a LS3/5a type of speaker ( sealed two way) for your room size. The Harbeth P3esr is my favorite of the lot. Here is a review of that speaker! http://www.hifizine.com/2011/12/harbeth-p3esr/
I’d look at the Revel F206. Has it all. Small footprint in a beautiful cabinet with great bass to go with superb musicality . You’ll wonder how they can make any money on them. They really are special.
I am with Yogiboy on this. I love the P3ESRs in my study (much better than the original LS3/5a that I also own). However, I think in a room of this size the M30.1 would be more suitable. I tried my P3ESRs in our big lounge and although they sounded glorious, they could not quite fill the room, even when supported by a subwoofer (they integrated perfectly with a B&W PV1d).
Monitor audio GX50 were great in a small room, sloping ceilings. Very clear and with decent amp went down fairly well. I heard Aerial 5t and was very impressed--they outshone, to my mind, the Kef reference one and the totem element fire. Very quick and lively, great presence. I personally find Focal over priced. I've compared them to much cheaper speakers and preferred them. Check out the new MA platinum II. I traded up to the 100's--very good bass, great all around sound. Just fabulous. got mine $3k used--lucky deal....
The best way that I've found to improve the sound of a system at low volumes is to add room treatments. If you can improve the articulation of the room, everything will sound better at lower levels.
For me, this has involved reducing the room's noise level. When we had our house built, we made sure that installations were as quiet as they could realistically be (and in the Netherlands we fortunately do not need air conditioning and do not use air heating). It is an open plan house, so we also made sure the fridge was ultra quiet, and also the dishwasher. Ventilation is through muffled openings in the facade, and the window glass has extra sound deadening properties.
Construction is mostly brick and concrete.
Given that even a very quiet room has a backgroud noise level of some 30dBA and that you do not really want to listen to levels of more than about 90dBA if you care about your hearing, it is obvious that dynamic range is severely restricted. Playing softly and stil enjoying a more or less realistic dynamic range is only possible when the background noise is as low as is humanly possible.
ProAc Response D Two is worth considering, if you’re able to audition.
Natural sound, excellent imaging and soundstaging (somewhat holographic), and convincingly resolving. Can sound somewhat forward, perhaps dynamic, but in a way that the music comes towards you; you don’t have to "hear into" their soundstage. They play well at moderate volumes. They are resolving enough to show differences in amplification, cables, and everything else upstream; yet are not difficult to place for excellent imaging. Your Ayre integrated amp and CD player may be a good match for them, and the D2 has bi-wire speaker cable terminals.
I haven’t had the chance to hear Harbeth, or the SF Liuto monitors, but they sound like very good options as well.
The ProAc D38 would be a good floorstander for your room size, speaker placement width, and distance to seating position. I have them in a 13x17 room, 9-10 feet apart, and about 9-10 feet from seating position. I usually listen at moderate volume, but they play well at low and somewhat high volumes with my Simaudio 600i integrated amp and Simaudio Supernova CD player.
Good luck with your search. A lot of good input from everyone.
I have recently converted my 2 channel system to a smallish room. I selected the 2-way Wilson-Benesch model Vertex. Using a great preamp and mono blocks. Absolutely ridiculous at any listening level.
Your $2500 budget is a little low to get something way better than the Synco 1 low level detail has a lot to do with a systems resolution.
Have you tried or considered moving to a much better digital front end as the PS unit you have is an ok dac and the Ayre is also an older starter player.
The Monitor Audio Platinum PL 100 monitors are impressive but they will not have the bass to fill out such a large room and they lean towards a more agressive treble but the detail and clarity are fantastic.
Based on the amount of room you need to fill you really need the bass response of a set of floorstanders.
A used set of PSB T3 would really impress you as they are way better in every way over the Syncro 1 and they have fantastic bass.
The ATC SCM 19 are amazing monitors but sill will require a woofer in that size room. The 19 are a huge improvement over the 11.
So I would recommend you save your pennies sell your Syncro Ones and move the T3 also still upgrade your Dac, check out the Mytek super detailed a little cold but overall great. the Aqua Hifi La voice is a super sweet punchy dac, and the T+A Dac 8 is just remakable. These are all dacs we sell, we haven't tested all the others on the market.
I think this is bad advice. Floorstanders are a bad idea in a small room because of their uneven in room response. Changing the electronics is unlikely to make much of an audible difference, if at all. A bit more power might help, but that is about it. If you want to create the budget for much better speakers you could, however, sell much of the electronics, use the Sonos as a digital preamplifier, and get a beefy pro audio amplifier like the recently discontinued Yamaha Pxxxs series. See here for a real review (in French): http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/amplificateurs-de-puissance-haute-fidelite/mesures-ampli-yamaha-p... I appreciate this offends many hard boiled audiophiles, but electronics make very little difference to the sound (unless tubes because their frequency response under real load is usually far from flat). Underpowered amplifiers do degrade the sound because of clipping distortion and compression. The best speakers for the room will make an enormous difference, however, and far more than the differences between different decent quality electronics. In a room of that size I would opt for the Harbeth M30.1, with two (or four) smallish subwoofers, equalized by an Antimode 8033. Harbeths are beautifully clean and sweet.
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