My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
@viber6 Play them kinda loud The bass on a lot of these is unreal This is good stuff !!! https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfKqxF7uPH5jzwsusBCnAJn7m92_JdeZV |
I can tell you the beautiful M6 wasn't exactly selling like pancakes at IHOP either. Doesn't matter the brand, the color, the shape or anything else. Most people who buy these big boy toys aren't found around the corner. It's huge money even at a nice discount. I don't think clicks would go up if i go with more affordable speakers. Remember, by now most people are used to seeing me with these crazy toys and not so much with the more affordable ones. |
Jay- to answer your question above, and as you of course know, there is no speaker >100k with good resale. There are a lot more options and market liquidity in the 30k-50k arena. so if you’re worried about a boat anchor, seems to me you’re playing in the wrong space. I’ll be curious how easy bright orange XLFs are to move from. I wonder if your clicks would go up at a lower luxury price point too. |
ok Jay and everyone lese. I have some music recommendations. These are KILLER GREAT songs that will give your speakers a workout. besides they are FREAKIN AWESOME ! Mostly indie Down & Out by Boozoo Bayou Kyiv by Tom Misch Lift Off by Tom Misch Flow By Crooked Colors Days Without You (Crussen Remix) by Satori Charlottes Thong by Conan Mockasin Drift by Great Gable Farewell Transmission by Kevin Morby Honey, There's no time by Fenge Suave Crank it up . I’ll bet you will be amazed by a lot of this |
Thanks, owning both in the long run is certainly the best option. I think, I’ll get one of their XLRs and pass on the speaker cables. Adding 2 High Fidelity cables in my system is probably too much. Will do further testing with my new preamp (CH L1) when it arrives. BTW, I preferred CH L1 in my room to Pandora. Both were very good, Pandora had more slam and a bit wider soundstage, CH was better for longer listening sessions. |
I mean, look - there are always those who say that adding anything to the sound is detrimental. It all depends on what kind of listener YOU ARE. I personally like the "voodoo" effect that synergistic research achieves, but some people might hate it. On the other hand, if i were to use more ruthless cables then we can run into the typical issues of having too much of a "revealing" presentation. Ultimately, you have to decide what you prefer, but this is not easily done. Best practice would be to own 2 sets of cables at the same time and switch them out and decide what does it for you. Hope this helps |
Based on your description, they might seem similar to Synergistic Research - big sound, 3d effect that wraps around you.This is similar to what I hear. I do not know what Synergistic Research do to achieve such an effect, High Fidelity use magnets, which they claim somehow direct electrons to the center of the conductor. It does not sound very scientific to me, but all I care is the end result. The big question: is it OK for a cable to have such a dramatic effect on the sound reproduction? |
Find out what the component list will be for this upcoming shootout of DCS versus MSB: https://youtu.be/A9dEXfxG7S0 |
Because that’s what he does. It’s never been in WC’s room and probably never will be unless it is donated to him. I suspect WC’s not spending the $$ on something that will have no resale value when he wants to get rid of it a month later. But yet it continues to get brought up ad nauseum by the same person. Just ignore it like everyone else does |
So many posts about GTA here? Why??? 🙃 Jay, I really would like to know your opinion about High Fidelity cables. I’ve compared an HFC XLR and Gryphon VIP, which I put between my preamp and Mephisto - no contest, the HFC XLR is more resolving and has somewhat less grain. But the biggest difference is the soundstage, it is much much bigger and have a certain 3D effect, which is quite unusual. It is as if musicians are bigger and closer to you. This effect bothers me a little, what if it becomes tiresome in the long-term? I know, you have not auditioned HFC cables in your system, but maybe, you’ve heard something from Mike or other experienced audiophiles. What is your view about this brand: snake oil or the real thing? Thanks. |
golfnutz, pokey, rbach, All good points. I try to avoid being personal, so most of what I say is my attempt to describe objectively what I hear and relate it to some theoretical concepts that explain why. I have heard the version of the GTA that I have posted several times, most recently on page 323 comparing it to the XLF. I have heard the GTA in person at Steve's house a few times, and correlated those experiences with the same videos at home. I have never heard the XLF in person, but I have a good idea from Jay's excellent videos. Listening carefully to that song on GTA and XLF, I actually hear more detail from the XLF tweeter above 5 kHz. But much of the midrange of the GTA is slightly less colored and more transparent than the XLF. I speculate that the midrange planar magnetic driver + ribbon tweeter of the GTA is more coherent and pure than the midrange driver + tweeter of the XLF, so this explains why I actually agree with some people who have found the XLF highs somewhat unnatural. I could be wrong about the real differences between the two speakers, since the GTA was driven by warmish Pass electronics and tube Lampi dac. As is, the XLF is the only speaker Jay has owned that I feel seriously competes with the GTA for what they both do very well--clarity, transparency. I can't wait to hear the completely reworked GTA. I feel that Jay will never find a better dynamic speaker according to the criteria of clarity/transparency, and the new GTA may represent improvements at a much lower price than any dynamic speaker contenders. At first glance, the GTA will have poor resale value compared with several prestigious brands, but since the price is so much lower, there is less absolute risk. However, once people realize that to duplicate what the GTA does so well, and that it will take spending 5-20 times its price to get a SOTA dynamic brand name speaker, then the GTA may develop more popularity and offer good resale value. I like routing for the underdog. Remember that in their early days, McIntosh, ARC, Krell, Wilson were underdogs until they proved themselves. |
I've always had a negative view of Magico. I've heard them probably five plus times, don't remember what models (A3 twice, and some smaller and larger models), I just remember they never sounded good. I figured it was probably setup or associated gear, but I had no way to know. Hearing them in Jays room I found I quite liked them. Could I tell if I wanted to purchase them based on one of Jays videos, no. But, I did find it would be cool to look into them further some day if the opportunity presents itself. Again, they sounded quite good in Jays room - that is a testament to Jay and him trying to get the best out of them he could. Poster @ron17 gives Jay props for his hard work and putting up with the BS, and I'd agree with him. |
@rbach I think you are right. At times Viber6 has contributed to the thread in a meaningful way. But as you note, toning it down and refraining from going off into the weeds would help Viber tremendously. Home audio is a very subjective hobby. We should agree that what we like is the "best", but that it is the "best" for us, not anyone else. Respect demanded will never be given. Indeed, it must be earned. |
While I get the reasons for buying audio gear that are not based on sound quality alone, my highest want, I also understand that many people have many different purchase metrics. But the thing we have in common is we speak with our wallet. There's nothing wrong, or for that matter, right, with that. It is what it is. People should not be judged on that. The definition of an audiophile is not set in stone, there's no real way to judge absolute performance, except with your purchase. BTW, I purchased a new system a couple years ago and very much wanted to find either an integrated or separates that were better with the TAD E1s, but I could not find that and so I bought the matching Evolution series amp/pre. In my opinion, they are not the least bit sexy. But they really did sound the best with the E1s, go figure. So, am I right, or am I wrong - neither, I chose what worked best for me. And I'd bet some of you would agree while others wouldn't. There's no reason to become a zealot over what we each may think is the only way to do audio. Rather let each have their own choice. Agreeing to disagree, sitting down to have a meal or drink together is so much more fun than bickering about what is "right". |
Yes I am, like rh67, I’m into my 4th decade of Wilson Audio as well. There are several Wilson Audio owners who post to this thread, and including myself have never bashed, or had a negative thing to say about Magico. I was actually glad Jay brought Magico in so I could hear them (I’ve only heard them at audio shows). For me, it wasn’t about one being better than the other, it was just the chance to hear something different because of the number of Wilson speakers he already brought in. In all honesty, I was getting bored with the Wilson speakers - too much, too soon. My comment was more about the real haters based on manufactures or brands (nothing to do with sound), not someone who likes both but prefers one over the other. Yes, about Viber. Wait until/if Jay brings in GTA Audio speakers. Then we’ll get to hear how GTA bests Wilson, and Magico. Why are you taking any of his posts seriously? It’s all based on other peoples comments (and his misinterpretation of those comments - mostly) and YT - he’s never heard any of these speakers in person. |
Surely Jay, you must have known that bringing in Wilson Audio and Magico speakers back to back would get ugly. It's been like this since the beginning of time. I'll even guess it's something you and Mike from Suncoast have discussed earlier. Based purely on what I've read here and other forums, I think you'll find more Magico fanboys hating on Wilson than the other way around. And your right, this has nothing to do with sound, it's all about brand names at this point. |
@daveyf You nailed it. I am in agreement. @ron17: thanks man. One big takeaway should be that we are all guilty/culpable of what happens with high end and have to accept that we often times we are not real with ourselves and don’t listen. We DO NOT LISTEN and that is THE TRUTH. We cant be mad at the big ticket items because they are expensive. Guess what? WE, AS A WHOLE, CREATED THESE MONSTERS. NOBODY ELSE! We want the pretty cabinet, the pretty drivers, the pretty shape, etc, etc then manufacturers are listening to us by giving us exactly that and forgetting to do less and less sonic improvements. If in order to make something sound better it means they have to build a bigger, heavier component that looks ugly, they simply will not do it BECAUSE nobody wants it in their home. It is a business at the end of the day and guess what? WE AS CONSUMERS have the power to dictate what sells or what does not. Manufacturers WILL NOT produce something that does not result in profit so essentially if the Ultra high end exists then it is BECAUSE OF US. Ever noticed why there are far more SUVs now than ever before? because we are demanding bigger vehicles and this is why many sedans have been completely discontinued. More and more brands are building big trucks and less small cars. |
@jays_audio_lab Your two posts above say it all. I have not read this ’ongoing’ thread entirely, but it would seem to me that there is a common aspect that a lot of folks in this hobby will not accept. That aspect is that there are a TON of folks who buy this gear with their eyes...and NOT their ears! This is one of the reasons that I believe that great sounding gear can sit on the dealers floor unsold while less able gear, but gear that is eye pleasing, will move! How many folk here are really being honest with themselves and will admit that IF the gear doesn’t meet their idea of ’aesthetics’ ( IOW eye appeal) that they will NOT consider it regardless of its SQ credentials? That is why you see folk who are so disingenuous that they will change their opinion of gear, once they know what it is and have seen the ’look’.Then we have folk who are also ’gear lovers’..and NOT music lovers, that is another issue...and lastly we have folk who are simply trying to impress their friends/family/neighbors...and how do they do that?- through price love...the higher the better! ( NOTHING to do with the gear’s ability!). IMHO, this is all pretty pathetic...BUT it is the current norm. My 2 cents etc.,..... |
“Again, what is the objective?” I think Jay is a gear head....absolutely no offense towards Jay. Jay loves fast cars and hi end audio gear. I believe the thrill for him is to experience as much as the industry has to offer and file it for future use to help others achieve their goals in this crazy hobby. I doubt very seriously he is making enough money to warrant all of the work and effort he goes through. We all benefit from his obsession....I know I have, as well as most of my friends. Huge props to you my friend for putting up with all the BS shoveled your way. |
@lalitk The objective is to sell / move gear for a big payday What are you talking about? You really think "big pay days" are easily done with this level of gear? You really think i expect for someone FROM HERE to show up at my door to fork out money for my XLF? if it makes you feel better, the M6 DID NOT go to a buyer. They were traded in which BY THE WAY, IN CASE YOU NEED TO KNOW, A LOT of the gear you see on my channel gets traded in for other stuff. Dealers DO NOT WANT garbage trades from me either just like you all dont want no name brands from me. I have been verbally told "Jay i will not take these brands on trade in the future anymore because they sit on my floor forever and i can't get rid of them later on " So then what can i do when i am being told this? I have to roll with the punches and essentially make moves that are strategic if the goal is not to be panhandling in a few years under the Florida heat and humidity. |
rbach, Yes, I haven't posted a video of my own personal system. I am not set up with the equipment required, and the room doesn't exactly look like House Beautiful. So what? I have stated that my system has similar qualities to the GTA system, which anyone here can listen to. Jay nailed the fundamental issue of preconceived notions. I applaud his efforts in the ways he has done. Zip cord and Rane EQ? The prejudice against these cheap items is unfortunate as well. Now that Jay is urging people to have an unprejudiced open mind, hopefully he will present zip cord as "mystery" cable, or just a "different tweak" and let blinded people hear the increased clarity for themselves. If they have good ears and are honest, they will also say that the zip is deficient in bass. These are factual and accurate assessments which I won't dispute, but I would hate prejudice and closed minds if they say that zip is totally bad and doesn't belong in an audiophile system because it is dirt cheap and wouldn't be sold by any high end dealer. Same for the $200 Rane. He presented the XLF with Antileon, at first not revealing that it was done with the inferior phone mike, and the superior Orange fuses. My comments on that video were just a description of what I heard. Jay might even decide to make fools of all the prejudiced people by making A/B's of two identical components, but call them component X and Y. The prejudiced people will say that X is better than Y for all their imagined reasons, but I will say that I am unable to hear any differences. You like "warm" sound, which I describe as "dull/veiled." They are merely different ways of describing the same thing. Maybe I am being too harsh with "dull/veiled" and should say "more rounded and less revealing." The guitar is "sharper" on the XLF than on the Magico. But you would say that the Magico presents the guitar as more natural, which I would agree with if you heard a live guitar in a small room where it really is boomy and rounded. But the way the guitar is recorded and presented in the outdoor concert on the "Man in the room" the XLF presents more snap/brilliance the way it really is. Actually, we don't totally disagree, because I stated that the tweeter of the XLF may exaggerate the HF. Since no speaker is perfect, I have made the assessment that on balance the XLF delivers the truth of the recording more accurately than Magico. Rather than getting rid of everything I have, I use the Rane judiciously to maximize the benefits and minimize the drawbacks. I have experimented with less aggressive settings and have gotten more rounded sound, but the relative murky qualities have interfered with getting all the musical content, so I choose the more aggressive setting which reveals much more music, at a price of slight HF aggression. I tailor all this to the recording. These recording engineers have made their own EQ and processing choices, which I modify according to my needs. Rather than escalating the duel between us, it would help if you revealed your musical background, training, experience and preferred music so I could understand your perspective better. |
I find it interesting how choices change based on blind testing versus unblinded" This has been my entire argument here. Most people WILL NEVER ACCEPT this though. You have any idea HOW MANY people here were impressed by the XLF prior to me unveiling it? All you gotta do is go back and read (unless their comments have been deleted by the users themselves). As soon as they found what it was, all of the sudden the speaker is not good or has too much of this or too much of that, etc, etc. I am 200% fine with someone not liking something because it is a subjective hobby, but i detest the "changing" of your vote after you find out what product it was. To me, that is straight up BS and childish. This is another reason why the Poll i will be posting is going to be THE ONLY way for me to gauge WHERE the entire world sits with regards to the DCS vs MSB. Comments won’t matter UNLESS the person has voted. I also WILL NOT be rushed to unveil what dac it is. I will post as many videos as i want until i have enough votes on the poll and then i will come and give my opinion on what i heard here and leave the unveiling until THE VERY END. So if you expect me to unveil what each presentation is after 2 days, you won’t be happy. I will say it again, this is NOT ABOUT people not liking the speakers or the dac or whatever. I DO NOT CARE about that. Instead, this is about being truthful to your word, selection, decision or whatever REGARDLESS of what brand it is. I DO NOT understand WHY there are fan boys of brands here. Do they pay you? are you on their payroll? do you get freebies? do they send you Tylenol in the mail when you have a headache? Do they give a damn about you? HELL NO they DO NOT. How many brands have you seen on my channel? do you see me with them for the long haul? ever wondered WHY? Oh, before i forget, many accuse Wilson of being outstanding at marketing and promoting the brand and these being reasons why they sell so much, etc, etc. Well, then what DOES THAT TELL YOU? Who’s fault is that? It certainly isn’t theirs. They are being wise and smart at doing what most brands do not do. Why do you think I DO NOT BUY no name brands? WHY? BECAUSE YOU ALLL WILL NOT BUY THEM from me when i am done with them!! You all have a HUGE impact on my buying decisions! I would love to bring the vivid audios, audionets, EMM LABS of the world in here, but they are not "the brand names" you all buy so then what do i do with them when i am done? bulk trash? donate them to goodwill? |
Not particularly cheap, but throw Esoteric in the mix with DCS and MSB. I have currently an Esoteric K01XD in my system and it's a wonderful machine. Not sure about that, but it seems to me that Mike from Suncoast Audio likes this one better than the K1 that you had also before. They no longer using the AKM dac-chips, instead a fgpa based discrete dac, so the firmware can be upgraded. And then there are the K1X and the separates, up from K01XD |
| Post removed |
Totally fair question. Have you read all 326 pages over the last 5 years? For those that have, we enjoy the ride and the incredible tidbits we have gleened from it. It has not always been at this higher end. Regardless, for many, ha, or at least for myself, has helped inform a few audio decisions. That aside, Jay has done ALL the hard work. I am grateful that he does. And I can point out to my family that I am relatively sane ;) |
What is the objective of all this gear, thread, and videos.? Can anyone really appreciate or differentiate without being inside your room? A set of cables or ancillary gear can match one component and not the other, so, can true comparisons be made? How much of a difference would all those acoustic treatments made to the other gear/systems presented in the past, for better or worse? How many here are seeking your advice, and are they going to purchase the level of gear you present? Many of us are trying to reach SOTA sound for as little as possible and thus the comparisons of less costly gear to your expensive gear. Present what you hear, some will agree others won't. Again, what is the objective? Respectfully, Jose |
Why so serious? You want to break peoples heart? This is all just a game. Who cares what others think!?! When you have REAL self esteem, everything is fun and NO ONE is wrong. High end audio has no rules, no right or wrong. It is all personal and subjective. Every man for himself. Have you looked at others systems.....not one alike.....nada. Well, a few are copiers, but most just do their own thing. Same here. The problem with this thread is that it is about stuff most people cannot buy....so it has very little relevance to most people.....then add the ego strutting and this is how it looks now. If you can, try to stop taking any of this personally. You are not going to win love from people. People either love you or they don’t. If you post on any open forum then you will have to deal with ego....yours and everyone else’s......unless.....you can lighten up and just present gear and stop qualifying your reasons......you don’t need a reason. Just present the gear and let everyone’s ego do their thing. Most people are not teachable.....are you? The drama will always happen......no matter how you try to steer it. Let go....go with the flow. Just present what you love and love what you present. Very simple. Enjoy every second. Some will like what you do, some will not. If you want unconditional love....then you better go inside and find it there.....for the world will not give it to you. When you find it inside.....then you could care less what others think. The mind is a make wrong machine. The heart.....is pure love and joy. Stay in your heart. |
@inna: You sure talk alot for someone who really doesn’t contribute much. You entered this arena and pooped all over the field so now I’m stepping on your sh!t. It would be once to see you do or show something good, but i don’t see it happening. With regards to what bothers me: It’s the sh!t talkers that talk all this game and change their opinion once they know the brand they originally liked. It’s pathetic to see that. Weak move and lack of character. If this offends anyone then good. It would be offensive only to the ones that fall within my description. If you aren’t this kind of person and didn’t do what i described above then you ain’t got a thing to worry about. The same suspects will do the same thing when i release the dcs and msb video I’m working hard on. They come and will begin to talk about how they know a dac that costs 10% of the money of the msb and dcs that i have and how it would easily beat both. Before that statement goes live, SEND ME THE DAC OR AMP OR CABLE that you claim can come and clown any of my components here and if it does then I’ll send you a check for $1,000 and i will go on record on YouTube. Who is willing to take me up on it ? I’m as serious as a heart attack. One grand will go to the one who can put something at my door that can best any of my components (DAC, amp, preamp) and that MSRP for less. You’ll get your heart broken once i record the first video of your miracle component and no don't worry i will not play any tricks either. I'd be as honest as possible. |
There may be criticism of gear like there always has been, but I don’t understand why that would bother you WC. I guess unless it is the specific personalities of the posters doing it that is rubbing you wrong way. You clearly aren’t married to any of this gear, so who cares if people criticize the gear, as long as they aren’t making it personal? You’re indifferent to the gear anyway, right? Not that I’m encouraging criticism, but I think if it comes just blow it off because it’s not like you’ll have the component two months later anyway |
Oh man...you are so right Ron! I forgot about that comment!!! The truth is most of the haters are now going to hide behind their keyboards. That is typical behavior for them. They will wait for this conversations to die off before the resume to posting their hate. I got a huge RPG ready on my shoulders for when they decide to come out. Gonna blast them into pieces. They better come out with guns blazing. |
It seems to me that there was just as much hate on the M6 as the XLF. I remember reading someone saying the M6 had a feminine sound vs a masculine sound from Wilson....followed by a poster asking if the M6 came in the color pink? I wonder why speakers (more than anything else) bring out the hate in people. |
"My comments are informational about objective descriptions of what I hear from XLF or anything else, and my speculations about how design features may correlate with what I hear. But they are NOT "relentless preaching," or telling anyone they must dump their present speakers and get XLF, etc. Actually, the person who says that I am preaching is uncomfortable with inconvenient truths that I present. Well, they might now deny that I am presenting "truth." Well viber I guess you will never get it. How many times have you badgered us about your Rane equalizer / preamp? How many times have you asked the OP to use one to increase definition and clarity? What about months and months of you and your push for Jay to get the GT Audio speakers? We've had dozens of revolts on this thread because of you pushing your 'truth' on us. You have been the butt of hundreds of jokes because you just don't get the fact that we're not interested in your 'truth'. The OP got so fed up with your non stop 'truth' he asked you to put your system on a video so we could all hear the 'truth'. Of course that never happened. Never will. I know several people who left this thread because of too much viber. You've been asked so many times in so many ways to stop posting so much and stop with the pushy repetitiveness. You didn't get it then and you don't get it now. What a shame. How many times have we had to go through posts like the following? Jay, Yes, I could EQ the Alexx and get it to sound more detailed and spacious than the Chrono without EQ. I just did you a favor in case you lust for the Chrono!! Get the Rane, maybe put better parts in it, and rejoice. Yes, the electronics of your Boulder or Pandora are likely much better, but careful EQ will bring out more of your music if you replace the B or G preamps with the Rane. I'll coach you on it by phone. No consultation fee. If you wanted to make a hit with your consultations, I would recommend speakers, amps, cables, but recommend the Rane instead of preamps, which would give maximum flexibility and results. Why don't you try it? You will thank me. And what about the endless pushing of lamp cord for speaker cables. ugh! This is from Jay. "Viber, You couldn't promote the expensive because you haven't owned it. I could say the same thing to you by telling you to stop promoting the lamp cord trials that only occur in your domain. I highly doubt anyone went out to try that on their amp. You give tons of opinion on things that you only have really read about or seen on pictures. Why is that the case?" I stand by my comment of "relentless preaching". BTW this was my post dated 5/31/21 BEFORE the XLF was revealed. "I hear what Guido hears. Sounds the opposite of the M6's. Sounds thin and forward like a speaker that needs to be broken in. Maybe a familiar recording would help. No way it's Sonus Faber. SF has a laid back warmer sound." |
