My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Viber6, yes, it appears to me that GaN transistors are used in the output stages of the new Merrill amps. And consequently they are directly in the signal path, and have nothing to do with the power supply. However, it also appears that the amps are operating in class D, or some variant thereof. (In addition to the power-to-weight ratio of the amp being strongly suggestive of that, the designer specifically states so at the link Bill provided). Which means that the transistors in the output stage of the amp are being switched, at high speed. I’m pretty sure that Bill sees it the same way.
And although the transistors themselves are capable of being switched at GHz frequencies, that says nothing about what speed they are actually being switched at. All I would infer from the writeups is that the signal bandwidth is likely to be higher than the bandwidth of all or nearly all other audio amplifiers, probably including the Spectrals.
Of course the GaN devices are in the output stage and therefore in the signal path, I never meant to infer otherwise. What I was questioning was the actual signal bandwidth of the complete amp design, since with their confirmed low pass filtering it will be lower than their potential GHz switching speed. I can't predict what their signal bandwidth is or how it will compare to the Spectral amps, but generally agree with Al's post above.
Guidocorona, I am on pins and needles awaiting your opinion about whether the Merrill Element 118 had detail and resolution that blew away the Veritas, for example. Or even the Rowland 925 which you own or have heard? All this technical speculation is interesting, but the bottom line is the sound, which only you have heard.
You raised an interesting point about whether amps with extended or even excessive high freq (HF) are suitable for sostenuto (sustained) music or just for percussive music. A few wonderful pieces come to mind to discuss this. First, the prelude to act 1 to Wagner's Lohengrin, one of my top favorites that tearfully melts me. (For those not familiar, the famous melody of "here comes the bride" is from Lohengrin.) The violin section is divided into several high note parts to begin the piece. High harmonics on top of high fundamentals. They are played sostenuto at a soft piano dynamic level with a few soft crescendos. This music is truly celestial, so maximal resolution of HF is of utmost importance to appreciate the beauty of this piece. As a good pun, celestial qualities are associated with highs (HF) as well as the "high" altitude. I have not played this piece in any of my orchestras, and I have not seen the score (written sheet music), so I won't be surprised that when I do get to see the score, there will be lots of details revealed that even I have not yet perceived. That's why I say to people who like laid back rolled off HF sound, you sadly don't realize what you are missing. Second, Borodin, From the Steppes of Central Asia, which I have played in orchestras from when I was very young to more recently. It opens with high harmonics of HF in the violins at a soft pianissimo level. It starts with a high harmonic on the E string, then modulates to the high harmonic on the A string. The instant moment of that modulation is an awesome experience, greatly realized by full HF revelation. These HF harmonics serve as background to the midrange theme played by the flute, then English horn and later by the other wind instruments. As a violinist immersed in this music at close range, I was smitten by the brilliant revelation of these sounds. Its beauty is tremendously enhanced by the HF brilliance, and again anyone who prefers laid back sound is sadly missing out.
On a slightly more technical level, sostenuto (sustained) sound may sound smooth and continuous, but on a micro level, there are fine percussive elements in it. For example, violinists use sticky rosin on the bow to get traction of the horsehair to the string. To get a sustained sound, it is required to continuously and gently scrape the string, all very skillfully to avoid unpleasant harsh scratching and crunching. The gentle scrape produces plenty of HF which actually go way beyond 20 Khz. If you listen to any violinist at very close range, a large part of the total sound is that scraping noise. Also, wind instruments like the French horn produce sound via turbulence (a kind of percussion) of the air flow, and papers by James Boyk show a lot of HF up to 9000 Hz in the French horn when it is usually considered a mellow, midrange instrument. So my conclusion is that maximal revelation of HF (of course other lower freq as well) in electronics is essential for full appreciation of any music, whether percussive or sostenuto.
My apologies @Viber6, I have been distracted during the last little while because of the Florence evac.... Now, back home, I am buried in work that accumulated.... Never the less, I will try to address your questions tonight.
Hello Viber6, we were fortunate... The eye passed some 60 miles North of us when Florence had already been downgraded to a tropical storm... Thankfully no material damage... Only lots of anxiety before and during evac.
Now, back to our beloved topic...
The Element 118 prototype, even in its state of incomplete break-in, comfortably exceeded the performance of the original Merrill Veritas... THis is not surprising... Veritas was an excellent "entry level" NCore NC1200 amp designed to exceed the expected performance for its $12K price several years ago. It did that splendidly.
On the other hand, Element 118 is far from being an entry level device. Its design is complex and features a lot of "moving" parts, each contributing to the synergy of the whole. In that GAN transistors are one of many technologies that contribute to the whole, but neither GaN nor any other component parts or circuit features are the sole contributors to the result..... It's the synergy of the whole that counts... Or in other words, "'Tis all in the handle!"
If I compare the two devices in my mind, I find some obvious differences.... Element 118 is significantly quieter than Veritas, has larger staging in the three dimensions, clearer images, greater resolution of very low level detail revealing/exposing harmonics.... And comfortably greater authority.
However, the relative immaturity of break-in and the fact that Element 118 was a prototype may have introduced some artifacts.... As I mentioned, treble might have been a little overpressured... This does not necessarily reveal low level tonal components like harmonics... Rather, treble overpressure can dampen the perception of low level harmonics. Similarly, there were still faint traces of intermodulation... You could hear them mostly on ff orchestral or string cadenzas... Typical on 7th chords built on the dominant... A byproduct of faint treble intermodulation was also a bit of over-punchiness in transients. But as I said already several times, what I heard was only a prototype with incomplete break-in... And yet, once this was factored in, ELement 118 was alredy extremely promising.
When I reluctantly sent back Element 118 to Merril, the amps were still evolving significantly. So, Because of the likely temporary/transitory nature of the artifacts I detected, it would be completely meaningless for me to attempt to contrast the Element 118 with the Rowland M925, which I have had in my system for several years and, once nicely warmed up, is totally stable.
Update: Tomorrow i will be picking up a pair of the wireworld Platinum Eclipse 7 speaker cables. FINALLY i am going to be trying a cable that will be worthy of the rest of the my front end. I am a big wireworld fan. especially their silver series and up.
Guido, Thanks for your informative post last night. When do you think you will be able to hear/review the production version of Element 118, or 116, 114? Sometimes gratitude for surviving what could have been major devastation leads you to appreciate what you have even more. I am reminded of the Thanksgiving slow movement of Beethoven's String Quartet op 132, particularly in the sensitive recording of the Budapest Quartet about 1963, my favorite.
Despite our kindred spirits, I just have a little disagreement on interpretation of treble response. You describe how the Element 118 relative to the Veritas had significantly "greater resolution of very low level detail revealing/exposing harmonics." This would not be possible if "treble overpressure dampens the perception of low level harmonics." Therefore, to be consistent, this implies that the 118 did NOT have treble OVERPRESSURE. Rather, it implies that the 118's treble was naturally extended, which also creates "larger staging in 3 dimensions, clearer images." If the treble were artificially emphasized and peaky, the soundstage would suffer. This is analogous to italics print, which is sort of like peaky print. If the eye doctor's chart were done in italics, the 20/20 line would not be as well resolved/visible as it is in the usual boldface print. Also, "treble intermodulation distortion" is usually thought of as an objective lab measurement, so I am not sure how to interpret your use of this term. You have also described the "bristles" that you like in live music. I also like these "bristles". Although a subjective word, "bristles" implies to me a sort of jarring perception of small percussive edges in live sound. These edges are high frequency phenomena, not distortions. Overly smooth sound is heard in the 15th row of the concert hall, where much of the HF is rolled off and dissipated, and "bristles" are therefore smoothed over. To me, overly smooth sound is boring, since it is missing much of the startling clarity of the natural real thing, heard close up in all its revealing glory. What do you think of my discussion of the 2 pieces I cited--Lohengrin and In the Steppes? Another example is the Rimsky-Korsakoff Russian Easter Overture. I played this in high school orchestra, and was astounded to see high harmonic passages in the first violin part, which are never heard in most recordings when played on typical rolled off audio systems. These "harmonics" are produced by lightly touching the fingerboard instead of pressing down, creating much higher fundamentals. For example, on the E string, press firmly with the 3rd finger in first position, and you get an A with fundamental at 880Hz. But lightly touch the string at the same position, and you get an E with fundamental at 2520 Hz, with harmonics of that 2520 that go much higher. These phenomena are revealed in the Wagner, Borodin and Rimsky pieces. But they must be reproduced properly, with full HF extension to reveal the truth. Many audiophiles with insufficient musical experience misinterpret natural HF extension for "excessive treble." The treble is NOT excessive in most cases, if you have the true frame of reference to live music, heard reasonably closeup.
viber, its customary when you are interested in discussing a subject not directly relating to the thread to start your own. Especially so when your posts are longer than 5 or 6 of the ops.
This has been addressed by Numerous people already. Some people just like to hear themselves speak. IT is not going away. You would think a Doctor would spend more time treating patients than CREATING new patients who now need therapy due to having to endure his self indulgent posts on this thread.
Perhaps a Go Fund me page for a Mail Order Bride..or at the very least for an adoption at the local dog pound is in order. Not sure I want the blood on my hands thou when the Bride or Dog takes their own life from listening to this incessant over the top babbling. Maybe we can find one of HARRY MUDD's 50 wives from that Star Trek Episode and they can talk themselves to death. Its sad really. The OP has put 2 years worth of time and effort into this thread and somebody decides to take over the thread and drive most of the "subscribers" away. If this was an episode of Survivor I have no doubt who the majority would vote off the Island. Im sure I would get some votes too for my NE Coast bluntness.
I don’t mind reading Viber s postings which are very interesting. His last post about treble was very good. When WC doesnt post and takes a break, I’ m sure he doesn’t mind us discussing things a bit.
Share the hifi love guys, not the hifi hate. This forum is about having fun. Moderators are very kind because they only erase the posts that are abusive, and generally let discussions go by themselves . This is a good thing.
Ok guys, I brought the wireworld platinum eclipse 7 speaker cables home and the difference is beyond belief. It’s either the magico or the cables, but I can’t believe how much more coherent everything sounds. The highs became more relaxed and the “hotness” of the tweeter has came down quite a bit. The entire presentation just grew in size, the mids are so much more focused and the bass seems to have much more presence in my room. Overall, this is such an awesome improvement that I’m buying the platinum 7 xlr for my source and amplifiers. Im baffled with the match I hear between Magico and wireworld platinum.
I use Nordost Red Dawn Leif Series for speakers cables. Very very good value, they do compete with much pricier cables. Not at all the same cables as the old Nordost series. 20 solid core conductors with silver plating, you just don’t need more technology in speakers cables. Remember that most speakers use normal ofc cable in their cabinet. Normally, the trick is in the quality of the connectors, bare wire being the best way to do it but not practical in most cases.
You should try those for fun one day, I would not bet my money on the wireworld. But I can be very wrong, sure the difference in price is high.
I found the Shunyata Alpha digital power cable to be absolutety magical on my dac and preamp. I don’t know what they put in there but I ve falled on my buttocks when I eard it on my dac. It cleans the sound like not other, and doesnt mess with dynamics. You should also try one on your Esoteric. I ´m sold on Shunyata for power cables , they are imho unbeatable for the $.
Stick around Ron. I’ve got pretty interesting stuff coming in the next 30 days or so. I’ve been crazy busy with my daughter and work. I actually hadn’t listened critically for the past two weeks until today. That said, there will be some Monos coming for my mágicos. Oh, guess what I saw today at the wireworld factory? Magico s3 .... that’s what they are using I believe to voice their speaker cables. I was shocked actually.
WC, be careful in your enthusiasm for the Wireworld stuff. If the highs are relatively rolled off, you will subtract information from recordings, even if it may sound more pleasant and likably coherent. Further listening will verify this.
Guido, I really appreciate our dialog, and welcome the opportunity to privately communicate with you via email. Mine is russlaud@gmail.com. It is sad that several people here don't appreciate our sophisticated discussion and are just nasty about it. I will NOT start a new thread, because our comments are very relevant to THIS thread, and the some of the better people here do appreciate my insights. It was YOU who introduced us to the Merrill Element, which has the potential to be a real game changer. That stimulated lots of valuable discussion here, which I hope WC and others have found useful.
Hello Viber, I would not classify the ppl who are patient with our tangential discussions as "better" ppl.... Rather, exceedingly patient and polite they have been for sure with our obsessions. Why don’t you PM me, then we can continue offline, and so let this fine electronic watering hold return to its topical quest.
RIAA, I do appreciate some of your posts, providing useful information based on your experience, and later realizing the truth of what you had to say about amps and dealers, etc. So why don't you acknowledge and respect my experience as well? By the way, my work as a doctor is rooted in the search for truth about root causes of disease and better natural treatments. Most doctors are just drug pushers who don't have the knowledge and commitment that I have. In audio, I have the same goals--search for the truth. And a high proportion of scientists/mathematicians love to play musical instruments and listen to music. We are passionate about our productive pursuits in our careers and as music lovers, not self-indulgent egotists just mouthing off. It just takes more words to explain a position, so it is better to do that rather than shortening it by leaving out crucial thoughts and being superficial. A good doctor takes plenty of time with a patient to explain things. Most patients are unhappy with the insufficient amount of time that most doctors give. So it is with audio--the more input you can get, the more likely you will avoid costly mistakes.
WC, to add to my points about Wireworld or any other product, if something de-emphasizes the highs, you will hear more midrange and lower freq take prominence. This can cause delight if you are listening to a midrange dominant instrument like a soft trumpet or voice, but further listening reveals that HF harmonics are reduced, so the total sound of the instrument or the voice is missing these upper harmonics and thus a lot of information. In my early days before knowing anything about audio equipment, I heard a custom system of a doctor mentor in school. He agreed with me that accurate reproduction of HF was important for the full appreciation of the total sound from the string bass. This is because the string bass has lots of HF from the gutsy scraping of the bow on the string or the plucking in jazz pieces. His system certainly demonstrated this.
Cables are system dependent. What works well in one system, may not work well in another. Depending on the listeners perspective, Wireworld world cables can be considered "neutral" or lacking detail in the highs. I've had Wireworld Platinum cables in my system and prefer other cables to them.
techno_dude, Thanks for your input on Shunyata. I love the Venom HC power amp cable, but have mixed feelings about the Sigma HC that I tried and listened to extensively. Compared to the Venom HC it had a laid back but interesting coherent personality. The boys at Music Direct at first said the Sigma was better in every way, as a good salesman would say about more expensive items, but later they admitted that they agreed with my description of the sound characteristics. At the price, I passed on it. The Sigma HC was tried from the wall to my Shunyata Denali, and also from the Denali to the power amp. But I am really enthusiastic about the Denali, which did wonders for everything I value, with absolutely no downside. This was obvious within seconds of first hearing. It is well worth the $4000 for the horizontal version. I use the Venom HC from the wall to the Denali, and from the Denali to the power amp. Have you compared the Venom digital power cables with the new delta series and the alpha? With many high priced cables, the sound is not necessarily better than the same companies' cheaper versions. Nordost is an example. Many scientists find the theories of design from these companies questionable, so it is up to the listener to decide. Find your own balance between and combining "objectivity" (which in itself may be subjective and questionable) and "subjectivity."
Viber, I never tried the Denali but I’ m interested to know more. My gear is directly plugged into an Oyaide R1 outlet ( with a dedicated circuit to the breaker panel .) Power cables are Alpha Digital and Cobra Zitron.
What are you using for ac outlet? And did you compare the sound directly plugged into the ac outlet vs using the Denali in between ?
viber6 I enjoy reading your posts in this thread. Feel free to keep this conversation alive, continue posting your impressions, thoughts on all things Audio as well. I concur with your Doctor Mentor's example on the HF of a Bass string.
I really like the wireworld platinum cables with Magico. I’ve tried other cables with them and I never got the wow effect as I get with these platinums. The platinum cables have a huge sound stage and detail. I don’t think the highs are rolled off but then again the magico tweeter isn’t warm. Magico is far from a warm presentation. I can vouch for Magico and wireworld platinum synergy. I can’t vouch for platinum with other speakers. Lastly, those of you who think cables don’t make a difference ( I was one of them in the beginning years) are so wrong. That said, it’s also relevant to how good your set up is. For example, if your set up is a Denon receiver then no a wireworld power cable won’t really make any big difference. Your gear needs to be able to let you hear these changes in order for cables to be worth it.
techno_dude, Sure. With all my components plugged into my previous reference conditioner, the Isotek Evo 3 Sigmas, which was already better than a regular power strip plugged into the wall, the Denali was immediately clearer. Sorry I don't remember the exact sequence of my trials, but many combinations showed the obvious superiority of the Denali in the ways you know I prefer. My outlet is the original in my 1963 building. I know I should get the kind of good outlets and the dedicated circuit to the breaker panel you have. You can get the 60 day trial from Music Direct where I bought the Denali and 2 Venom HC power cords. I had trouble reliably hearing the minute differences between the Venom HC and the Sigma HC, but the Denali is such an obvious more gigantic improvement, akin to getting a much clearer sounding amp. That's why I justified spending $4k for it. The reviews admit the greatly increased clarity compared to the prior much more expensive conditioners of Shunyata. The designer is a former NASA engineer, well acquainted with the high standards of the military. Later, top cardiologists used his equipment to reveal sensitive information in heart monitors. He is a great materials scientist whose research continues to produce better products. Read his interviews.
WC, thanks for relating your findings. Now try the Shunyata Denali conditioner to magnify the differences and of course, to reveal more of what you enjoy.
@viber6 I get the impression that if you do not hear ear piercing shrill highs, then you consider the system to be lacking in some way ? I disagree, as i believe most others here do . Regarding your long winded posts about objective/subjective and the Merrill ., I don’t think you should be upset because the majority here think that it is wrong to do in this thread.,..then you spout of as if you and Guido have the right to have a "sophisticated " discussion on WCs amp thread. It might be a little different and overlooked if you didn’t write a Chapter every time you post . Just my opinion, of course.
Amazing that we have been doing this for such a long time. Although at times we have our differences in here, it’s cool to be able to share experiences. I’ve had a couple of conversations with several people whose ears I trust. I can tell you that at this level it’s all subjective. For instance, right now I have the gryphon diablo 300 running wireworld platinum cables throughout and esoteric k1 as a source and to be very honest I don’t miss firing up my ref10 and any other pair of monoblocks. Does this mean it beats what I’ve owned? Hell no but it’s just so much bang for the buck. What I’m saying is that having a 16k integrated that competes relatively well with a 30k preamp and 30k Monos is just crazy. Is it just as good? No but separates aren’t 4 times better either. I think that it’s also something very psychological that tells you “ hey if you own 40k dollar speakers, you can’t have a 16k front end pushing them. You need 50k+ to do justice to the speakers etc” but in my opinion that’s all BS. I realized that it’s really our mind playing tricks. Sometimes we as men get off on seeing a bunch of electronics in between the speakers with a bunch of cables etc etc. I don’t like admitting it but there’s a point that any more money spent is almost just like throwing it away. Will I spend 5,000 dollars on a power cord? Hell no. Not without at least listening to it and seeing if it indeed makes a difference. I also feel that cables are such a tricky purchase. If you buy the wrong cables then now you’re stuck with them and selling cables is harder than any other component I know because there’s still a lot of people that don’t believe in cables. I have friends who have great components and still roll with amazon xlr cables and speaker cables from Best Buy. They don’t want to buy high end cables because their minds don’t allow them to accept that a difference will be heard.
Lastly, don’t get it twisted... I will still bring more amps to try and give my impressions on. I’m carefully planning my next amp purchase. I still don’t know what it will be but it will bring life back to this thread. You all have seen me lay low for now because I don’t have really anything to update on other than the platinum cables. I’m also unable to find amps that are of interest to me. The market is saturated with amps that are of no interest to me at this time. I would love to try the m400 momentums, m160 audio research, block audio, gryphon antileon or Mephisto, etc. Those are my wishes but as you all know the market is dry when it comes to those components so I have to remain patient until I can locate one. My speed was much faster before because I had more amps I was interested in and right now the pool is getting shallow.
WC, right on! I totally agree. When you have settled on your amps and other electronics, I do recommend the Shunyata Denali, as I described in my posts with techno_dude. The Denali is real value, unlike much of the cables out there. At least in my system, the Denali created such a large improvement, much greater than any cable.
So I do believe the large majority of the budget should be into speakers unless you are talking about home theater applications. For instance, if you had let’s say a full Martin Logan 11.2 set up with a full trinnov processor and amp versus let’s say a full Wilson audio 11.2 set up with a Marantz processor and amplifiers, I can assure you the trinnov/Logan set up would murder the Wilson/marantz set up. With Two channel, things are different. Speakers become far more crucial but this doesn’t mean the front end isn’t as important. It’s all important but carefully matching the front end to your speakers is also key. For example, Classe audio with Martin Logan electrostatics sounds blah. But if you have audio research with electrostatics then get ready for your jaw to drop.
Thanks for posting to me. Of all the people who disagree with my sound preferences, you have one of the best reasoned comments, so I feel you merit a serious response. Everyone has their sound preference, so they should tailor their system according to their values. In my case, I value the close up sound of my violin under my chin and that of fellow chamber music players sitting close together. This is a brilliant sound that has more HF content than the sound at the 15th row in a concert. The tonal qualities of violins vary tremendously, which is why violinists may have several violins with different string types and bows with different weight balances and wood stiffness to suit their tastes and styles of playing different music. My 1890 violin is on the bright side but with some mellow qualities compared to new violins. I agree with you that excessive HF content at loud levels is unacceptable, and it is also harmful because of hearing damage. My satisfying listening levels average 60-70 dB with peaks of 90 or so. At these levels, there is pleasure without any harm. The question of what is acceptable will vary among people whose tastes range the spectrum from laidback to very bright and brilliant. Suit yourself. My Rane ME 60 equalizer makes possible near infinite varieties. I often change my settings on the EQ to suit different recordings according to my taste. I feel that everyone should consider doing this, because otherwise the choices for your preferred tonal balance are limited to the choices made by the manufacturers of all your components. Hope this helps, and keep posting your thoughtful comments.
@viber6 I understand where you are coming from. I have a felling that our musical tastes are probably quite different. I like a lot of Contemporary Blues Artist .. like Keb Mo, Buddy Guy, Derek Trucks, Tab Benoit, Robert Cray, Robben Ford...etc But, I also like Some Funk .. .like the Brand New Heavies,The New Mastersounds , Nightmares on Wax,Soopasoul, Galactic, Quantic,Soulive, Cookin On 3 Burners And some techno ,electronica stuff..like the Mushroom Jazz albums(dj Mark Farina) Kruder &Dorfmeister, Verve Remixes But I also like stuff like Bela Fleck, Johnny A, Larry Carlton , Boz Scaggs..etc Acoustic Alchemy ,Van Morrison But i really am not one to listen to any classical or pure singing kind of music.I guess I have always preferred electrified music.
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