My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!


So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


jays_audio_lab
WC, I agree with tjassoc suggestion. I also have used rock wool soundproof insulation for my ceiling and sidewall of my basement audio room. Basically it turns audio vibrations into heat. Works well is not too expensive. Another interesting product is Soundcoat GP3 dampening sheets which have an adhesive back. I’ve used these to minimize airborne vibrations to my equipment or noise generated by my power transformers. If I was in your situation, I would tack the GP3 sheets on your back wall and then fill up with rock wool.
Amazing ! Thanks for this tip. I will go ahead and check it out. 

Ok so tomorrow the Epson 6050 projector arrives and on Monday the 138 inch , 235:1 ratio acoustically transparent screen arrives as well. The last thing will be the audio rack which I hope to have next week. 
Whitecamaross - regarding your in-wall speaker sound transmission to the adjacent room issue, you can remove the in-wall speaker and stuff rock wool soundproof insulation behind / below / above - and then re-install your in-wall speakers. Make sure to leave no air gaps.
Rock wool soundproof insulation should dramatically reduce the sound transmitted to the adjacent room. Not sure how it will affect the in-wall speaker's performance though (by reducing the volume the back of the in-wall speaker sees).
Home Depot sells Rock Wool insulation - cuts with a sharp smooth edge kitchen knife and doesn't itch. Much easier to work with then fiberglass.
Hope this helps :-)
briano,
No, I got your satire, but the main purpose of this and other threads is sharing experience rather than humor, although a sprinkling of humor is OK.  My post about the Dynaudio C4 was just to predict that the imaging would be more true to life than the diffuse imaging of large panels like the Neo, due to the factors I mentioned.  There is no way I can accurately predict the tonal balance/clarity of the total sound, but my prediction of the imaging can come closer.  Since I have limited time and inclination to hear everything available, I utilize my understanding to limit the field to what I might be interested in.  I never plunk down serious money for anything without a good, extended audition at home first.  I have made errors trying to audition at dealers or even friends' homes, but they serve as a starting point to then seek an audition at my place later.  Of course, shows are largely ridiculous for auditioning purposes--too many unknowns.
@briano, yes, I knew it was satire, and responding to the rear mirror thing was my way of adding to it. viber 6 has been posting this way forever, so I get it. I do admire viber 6’s passion, and, some of the things he says is intelligent, and makes sense. Some.... As far as WC and the front in wall speakers, he has to do something to remedy the situation. No doubt about it. Obviously an oversight, which I feel, briano, or I, would never have over looked, with our backgrounds and experience, in system setup, and, room isolation. I do however, feel, sheet metal is not as beneficial as a wood box, and this has been my experience. Room / listener isolation, was a huge factor for WC to do this project, so I cannot imagine him not fixing it. I hope he does.....Enjoy ! MrD.
My suggestion would be boxed speakers with wall mounts. Even with internal boxes, the sound is going to be heard on the other side of that wall.
WCSS,

Any decent sheetmetal worker should be able to build you some back boxes. There is nothing fancy about them. We used to do it on higher end home theater installations. Just don’t use too thin of a piece of metal as it will vibrate and put some insulation behind the speaker.
Viber6

You completely missed the point of my post. You go on and on about how you “think” something will or should sound based upon its specifications or design. You make assumptions without actually hearing the component in question. I was trying to illustrate this by making idiotic suggestions about components I have never heard to change the sound of a tweeter I have never heard. Kind of what you do over and over again.
I do agree with your statement that audio is not a bunch of random combinations. Actual results will absolutely vary from theoretical expectations most of the time. I thought I made that clear in my original post but I guess the satire got in the way for a few of you. 
Interesting SS amplifiers to me (vs the high end, mostly overrated stuff with a zillion parts and watts):

DarTZeel 108
Nagra Classic
Valvet A4e 
Vitus (Class A only)
Accuphase A75

and then FirstWatt of course for low power stuff.


Thought Briano4's post was excellent. My satire radar is always spinning I guess.
briano,
Your lengthy post above is an interesting mixture of satire and sense.  As you know, good designers start by respecting engineering and science.  Actual results will vary somewhat from theoretical expectations, but audio is not a bunch of random combinations that will magically create high fidelity, regardless of the humorous mood.
Seriously MrD? I was being as sarcastic about the above post as I could muster regarding some people’s comments here. I worked many years in the audio industry and I could write books about the crazy stuff I have listened to and observed. It’s true, most audiophiles have no sense of humor. Don’t take this stuff too seriously. It’s about entertainment.
Hello WC, and all. A trick used in the audio video installation world when it came to in wall speakers, was connecting a 9 Volt battery to the wires at the amplifier end. This would not only check for the speakers working or not, but for polarity as well. Good at garage sales, too. I need to disagree about a mirror behind the listening seat. Not a good move. WC, I am wondering if you can remove the ML in wall fronts, close up the walls, and get surface mount speakers, or add back boxes, as to eliminate the issue of not disturbing the wife. This was, in fact, one of the reasons you did all of this; independence. I understand it is a hassle, an added expense, and an extra delay of time, but this room / situation, is, for a lonnnnng time. Just my 2 cents again. Congrats on the room. Enjoy ! MrD.
Viber6

I find your comments regarding the probable sound of the Dynaudio speakers based upon the symmetry of the drivers to be fascinating. Your ability to describe the sound of components you, in most cases have never heard, is remarkable. I too, possess this ability. If I have heard component A and component B, I can easily extrapolate what component C is going to sound like.
Based upon my superior intellect, I am going to make a suggestion for WCSS regarding his pair of C4 speakers. Having owned a pair of Dynaudio Confidence speakers with the Esotar II tweeter, I can estimate the amount of sound he is giving up by not having the newest model that has the new and improved Esotar III tweeter. Even though I have never heard the Esotar III tweeter, I can extrapolate the sound based upon my experiences with the Esotar II tweeter and my vast knowledge of everything audio. Based upon the specifications of the new tweeter, I estimate an approximate 11-12% improvement in what I like to call “sparkle”. Since WCSS could not obtain the latest model speaker, we can make adjustments to his system in order to make up for the sparkle deficiency. First off, by using the Odin speaker wire vs. the Wireworld, that will give us approximately 3% more sparkle. By experimenting with another two or three dozen amplifiers, I think we can pick up another 3-4% of sparkle. Power cords will give us another percent or so. The last few percent will be the hardest. I would recommend a very large mirror right behind the listening position. This will reflect some of the sparkle back giving a perceived increase in sparkle. This should get us close but if we are still short of sparkle, then a simple purchase of the latest 100k of speaker cables from MIT with the build in tone controls should do the trick. This latest innovation to speaker cables is a huge improvement over the old idea of using tone controls on the electronics themselves. 
This is just one of my many profound ideas and suggestions regarding achieving audio bliss. I am already working on describing the sound characteristics of the yet designed Esotar IV tweeter.

There is a new review of the Merrill 118 on Soundstage Ultra, dated 7/15/19.  The author says it is a little more neutral and clear than a Simaudio.  Let's see what WC finds with the 116 vs Rowland 925.
Neoliths are still plan of the room. The c4s will be my back up pair. For now, the Neoliths are in my living room because as I stated above, I still have a few things left to do and their large size would be a pain in the butt to deal with as I still have to drill holes in the ceiling to mount the projector etc. If I do end up changing speakers, you guys will know about this. As of right now, the Neoliths are still part of my plan.
That said, I’m a little pissed off that I went with the Martin Logan axis in walls for the front wall. These speakers don’t have any back box so my wife claims that she can hear them inside the house but when I play the c4s, she can barely hear them. I wish I had bought in walls with back boxes.
Lesson learned guys.... don’t buy speakers that don’t have a back box because if you have adjacent rooms, they might be able to hear them and if that’s a bedroom, they won’t be able to sleep. I’ve tried researching a simple solution for this but everything I find is quite complicated for me to do. I wish there was something I can use inside the holes in order to encapsulate the speaker but everything I find seems like a project requiring for me to cut wood and create a wooden box etc and I’m not sure I want to do all that.
Apparently there are no Neoliths left to move into place.... Dedicated rooms are expensive.

A couple of posts above....

"These too shall pass.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649540102-martin-logan-neolith-basalt-black/  [in Florida]"


WCSS, Congratulations on being so close to the finish line with your room! Are you going to run the C4s first before moving the Neoliths back in place? How soon will the Merrill amps show up?
As far as the simaudio 860a v2, I’ve not heard it yet. That amp is too new and I suspect it will take some time for me to get my hands on it. As far as it beating the 900u, I’d be shocked if it does. I’ve yet to meet an amp that outperforms the luxman 900u for the money. Think of the luxman 900u as the new mid engine c8 vette. It will give those exotic cars a run for the money. A poor man’s Ferrari as they say. 
Welcome c_morris.
@ riaa: thanks for coming back from the dead :)

room update:
all inwalls speakers are installed, carpet is installed and the only thing I am hoping to receive next week is the audio stands and the screen. Right now I have 2 projectors that I am playing with by reflecting images on the wall in order to determine how large I want the screen to be. Surprisingly, a $500 Epson 1080p projector is kicking the hell out of the 7,000 jvc x770r. The jvc looks washed out in comparison and this is in my pitch black room. Granted, I am projecting 4K images on a dark wall so maybe things might be different once I buy an acoustically transparent screen.
It is getting annoying at this point because the screen and stands are taking so damn long to arrive. I don’t want to unpack any equipment at all until the projector and the screen are installed.
So on my end, I’m done. I’m pretty much waiting on the last few items so I can finish the room. 
I am also going to be doing room treatment after the entire room is set up. 
Hello everyone-
I've made it through this entire thread over the past week. Thanks for the terrific information that has been shared. The biggest benefit for me has been an increased ability to articulate the differences I hear between various speakers and amps I listen to. The "dictionary" of this thread continues to grow. I also appreciate the continued discussion about value treadeoffs between various amps and speakers. The relative comparisons have been hugely helpful for me.

Has anyone heard the new Simaudio 860A v2? I believe it was released last month. I wonder how it would compare to the Luxman M-900u amp- the reigning champion class A/B amp. 
One of the issues with maggies is that the ribbon is not in the middle. If I had them on the inside I noticed the lack of smooth interface with the bass panels, and on the outside the tweeters did not focus the highs

This was less noticeable when sitting well back from the panels
tweak1,
Do you find the concentric midrange tweeter of the Emerald Physics superior to that range of the Maggie 3.5R?  The imaging and focus of the Emerald may be better, but how about the clarity?
Among the many speakers I have owned in the same room over the decades are Magnepan 3.5Rs and Accoustat 2 + 2s with their OTL tube amps, Harry Pearson's own pair of Genesis Vsand Nearfield Pipedreams entry level $10K line source speakers. Now, while none may be in the league of the DynAudios, etc, but for those who want mega bang for the < 10k I highly recommend Emerald Physics with carbon fiber drivers. Thier concentric midrange tweeter is amazing as well 
WC,
The Dynaudio is a great choice and should sound interesting.  I like the symmetrical design of the drivers whereby small instruments with more HF dominance will have the proper smaller, focused imaging as in real life for flutes, triangles, voices, etc.  Bigger low freq instruments will have larger imaging as in real life, because of the use of all drivers.  Large panels have large imaging in both HF and low freq which is not true to life.  The question is whether the purity of the dynamic drivers will approach that of the stat driver.  See how the magnesium silicate polymer compares to the beryllium of the Persona or the materials of Magico.  I remember the original Esotar tweeter which was wonderful, but may have been handicapped by mediocre midrange and bass drivers of the past.
Thanks Mr Bill. I’m using a cheap $150 dollar Sony receiver from Best Buy. I just wanted to test all the inwalls and this was easily done with this Bluetooth enabled receiver.
I concur that the c4 confidence platinum look great.
!! that’s awesome...  the room and an amazing speaker to get your views on
Ladies and gentlemen,
i’ve just posted one teaser picture of the room with a speaker I bought a week ago :)
This will give you a hint of things to come :)

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zprr
It is not too hot that one can't touch it. The v1 ran very cool to the touch...I suggest it is a combination of running at higher levels and the new design (with the same size chassis) is challenged to dissipate additional heat from the larger capacitance.  
gtaphile  thanks for sharing your findings. Sounds like v2 is a major improvement over v1. Any theories on why it may be running hotter in general? Is it too hot to keep your hand on it?

WC - Any chance you can post a few pics showing evolution of new room? It has to be exciting that it’s nearing completion. 
gtaphile

I didn’t know anything about your speakers, did a search and there was a review on Soundstage ultra...they seem to sound delicious!
Thanks for your reply.
Enjoy
Hello  ahofer, the OP (WhiteCamaroSS) has repeatedly requested everyone to stay narrowly on topic because this great thread has suffered of many derailments.... Your post was respectful and eliciting of pondering... but was OT to this thread. Why do not start your own thread on the subject.... I am confident that many will follow you there. Regards,, Guido


I said nothing that *even remotely* violates the stated guidelines in my post, nor did the person I responded to.  Would the moderator please explain their decision to me?
I trade my Beloved Parasound A21+
for plinius Sa103 hopefully I will not regret it thanks to excellent review from  whitecamaross  
this is my preparation towards Martin Logan renaissance 15A
I love my Parasound A21+ and P6 combo more than my previous set up Macintosh 601s monos and C52 preamp 
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lucidear

I auditioned the original version for a few months waiting for the V2 and during that time I seldom played at high volume. I enjoyed the original but not to the extent that I felt the urge to play most tracks at much higher levels. The new amp has much more control over the speaker to the point that the room pressurizes differently now...so I can let her go...
Speakers are PMC IB2SE  at 4 ohms.  
The sound characteristics are similar (in my set-up), however, the differences are not subtle. Top end is more open, image is more focused, more air, more detail, deeper bass which was lacking and just as organic. 

SimAudio have all their eggs in one basket it seems based on the Munich debut press release and I think it was a wise move.        
gtaphile
could it be that it's running hot because it's brand new and needs time to settle in?
Also,
could you elaborate a bit more on the V2 sound characteristics vs the original? What speakers are you driving it with?

I had been reading the company's literature, it said this is better than the original, equals 870a and two are better than a pair of 880s...
Awesome gtaphile. That amp WILL be here at some point. I need to see what simaudio has done with it. 
Also, I should have the element 116 Monos by the end of the month. I’m really looking forward to it ! 
WC you were wondering about the SimAudio 860A V2. I have had one  for a week and it is much better than the original, and that's saying a lot. Whereas the original ran cool the V2 runs hot. You might want to move it up the list.  
I think most of the conversations here start on topic, but can easily segue to related topics, which seque again, until we are definitely not on the original topic. Just a human thing - we can easily do it when in conversations with others and a certain word or phrase sparks something in our minds and/or hearts and off we go. 

Most folks understand the right idea to bring it back to the topic and send the unrelated topics to another thread and/or to PM's.   For others, the passion of the topic seems to overtake them a bit.  It's nice that we help each other out to get back to WC and his journey.
Dave
@whitecamaross
Hope your new room is all set and dandy by now.
Fill us in on your take on the Levinson 533h when you get a chance, hopefully top to bottom and particularly the bottom... -:)
did you use it with the Logans too? Or only your HT speakers?

To the rest of the gang,
As the title of this thread indicates it's Wcss's experiments with amps and such...
Could you kindly start your own threads, whether it's about Tuna & Mercury, vibration control, or the Man who fell to earth etc.?
you'd be life savers