My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
whitecamaross, Just In case you didn't see this on TAB, it might give you some pointers, ideas etc... http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/building-a-listening-room/ |
WC, I agree with tjassoc suggestion. I also have used rock wool soundproof insulation for my ceiling and sidewall of my basement audio room. Basically it turns audio vibrations into heat. Works well is not too expensive. Another interesting product is Soundcoat GP3 dampening sheets which have an adhesive back. I’ve used these to minimize airborne vibrations to my equipment or noise generated by my power transformers. If I was in your situation, I would tack the GP3 sheets on your back wall and then fill up with rock wool. |
Whitecamaross - regarding your in-wall speaker sound transmission to the adjacent room issue, you can remove the in-wall speaker and stuff rock wool soundproof insulation behind / below / above - and then re-install your in-wall speakers. Make sure to leave no air gaps. Rock wool soundproof insulation should dramatically reduce the sound transmitted to the adjacent room. Not sure how it will affect the in-wall speaker's performance though (by reducing the volume the back of the in-wall speaker sees). Home Depot sells Rock Wool insulation - cuts with a sharp smooth edge kitchen knife and doesn't itch. Much easier to work with then fiberglass. Hope this helps :-) |
briano, No, I got your satire, but the main purpose of this and other threads is sharing experience rather than humor, although a sprinkling of humor is OK. My post about the Dynaudio C4 was just to predict that the imaging would be more true to life than the diffuse imaging of large panels like the Neo, due to the factors I mentioned. There is no way I can accurately predict the tonal balance/clarity of the total sound, but my prediction of the imaging can come closer. Since I have limited time and inclination to hear everything available, I utilize my understanding to limit the field to what I might be interested in. I never plunk down serious money for anything without a good, extended audition at home first. I have made errors trying to audition at dealers or even friends' homes, but they serve as a starting point to then seek an audition at my place later. Of course, shows are largely ridiculous for auditioning purposes--too many unknowns. |
@briano, yes, I knew it was satire, and responding to the rear mirror thing was my way of adding to it. viber 6 has been posting this way forever, so I get it. I do admire viber 6’s passion, and, some of the things he says is intelligent, and makes sense. Some.... As far as WC and the front in wall speakers, he has to do something to remedy the situation. No doubt about it. Obviously an oversight, which I feel, briano, or I, would never have over looked, with our backgrounds and experience, in system setup, and, room isolation. I do however, feel, sheet metal is not as beneficial as a wood box, and this has been my experience. Room / listener isolation, was a huge factor for WC to do this project, so I cannot imagine him not fixing it. I hope he does.....Enjoy ! MrD. |
Viber6 You completely missed the point of my post. You go on and on about how you “think” something will or should sound based upon its specifications or design. You make assumptions without actually hearing the component in question. I was trying to illustrate this by making idiotic suggestions about components I have never heard to change the sound of a tweeter I have never heard. Kind of what you do over and over again. I do agree with your statement that audio is not a bunch of random combinations. Actual results will absolutely vary from theoretical expectations most of the time. I thought I made that clear in my original post but I guess the satire got in the way for a few of you. |
briano, Your lengthy post above is an interesting mixture of satire and sense. As you know, good designers start by respecting engineering and science. Actual results will vary somewhat from theoretical expectations, but audio is not a bunch of random combinations that will magically create high fidelity, regardless of the humorous mood. |
Seriously MrD? I was being as sarcastic about the above post as I could muster regarding some people’s comments here. I worked many years in the audio industry and I could write books about the crazy stuff I have listened to and observed. It’s true, most audiophiles have no sense of humor. Don’t take this stuff too seriously. It’s about entertainment. |
Hello WC, and all. A trick used in the audio video installation world when it came to in wall speakers, was connecting a 9 Volt battery to the wires at the amplifier end. This would not only check for the speakers working or not, but for polarity as well. Good at garage sales, too. I need to disagree about a mirror behind the listening seat. Not a good move. WC, I am wondering if you can remove the ML in wall fronts, close up the walls, and get surface mount speakers, or add back boxes, as to eliminate the issue of not disturbing the wife. This was, in fact, one of the reasons you did all of this; independence. I understand it is a hassle, an added expense, and an extra delay of time, but this room / situation, is, for a lonnnnng time. Just my 2 cents again. Congrats on the room. Enjoy ! MrD. |
Viber6 I find your comments regarding the probable sound of the Dynaudio speakers based upon the symmetry of the drivers to be fascinating. Your ability to describe the sound of components you, in most cases have never heard, is remarkable. I too, possess this ability. If I have heard component A and component B, I can easily extrapolate what component C is going to sound like. Based upon my superior intellect, I am going to make a suggestion for WCSS regarding his pair of C4 speakers. Having owned a pair of Dynaudio Confidence speakers with the Esotar II tweeter, I can estimate the amount of sound he is giving up by not having the newest model that has the new and improved Esotar III tweeter. Even though I have never heard the Esotar III tweeter, I can extrapolate the sound based upon my experiences with the Esotar II tweeter and my vast knowledge of everything audio. Based upon the specifications of the new tweeter, I estimate an approximate 11-12% improvement in what I like to call “sparkle”. Since WCSS could not obtain the latest model speaker, we can make adjustments to his system in order to make up for the sparkle deficiency. First off, by using the Odin speaker wire vs. the Wireworld, that will give us approximately 3% more sparkle. By experimenting with another two or three dozen amplifiers, I think we can pick up another 3-4% of sparkle. Power cords will give us another percent or so. The last few percent will be the hardest. I would recommend a very large mirror right behind the listening position. This will reflect some of the sparkle back giving a perceived increase in sparkle. This should get us close but if we are still short of sparkle, then a simple purchase of the latest 100k of speaker cables from MIT with the build in tone controls should do the trick. This latest innovation to speaker cables is a huge improvement over the old idea of using tone controls on the electronics themselves. This is just one of my many profound ideas and suggestions regarding achieving audio bliss. I am already working on describing the sound characteristics of the yet designed Esotar IV tweeter. |
Neoliths are still plan of the room. The c4s will be my back up pair. For now, the Neoliths are in my living room because as I stated above, I still have a few things left to do and their large size would be a pain in the butt to deal with as I still have to drill holes in the ceiling to mount the projector etc. If I do end up changing speakers, you guys will know about this. As of right now, the Neoliths are still part of my plan. That said, I’m a little pissed off that I went with the Martin Logan axis in walls for the front wall. These speakers don’t have any back box so my wife claims that she can hear them inside the house but when I play the c4s, she can barely hear them. I wish I had bought in walls with back boxes. Lesson learned guys.... don’t buy speakers that don’t have a back box because if you have adjacent rooms, they might be able to hear them and if that’s a bedroom, they won’t be able to sleep. I’ve tried researching a simple solution for this but everything I find is quite complicated for me to do. I wish there was something I can use inside the holes in order to encapsulate the speaker but everything I find seems like a project requiring for me to cut wood and create a wooden box etc and I’m not sure I want to do all that. |
Apparently there are no Neoliths left to move into place.... Dedicated rooms are expensive. A couple of posts above.... "These too shall pass. https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649540102-martin-logan-neolith-basalt-black/ [in Florida]" |
As far as the simaudio 860a v2, I’ve not heard it yet. That amp is too new and I suspect it will take some time for me to get my hands on it. As far as it beating the 900u, I’d be shocked if it does. I’ve yet to meet an amp that outperforms the luxman 900u for the money. Think of the luxman 900u as the new mid engine c8 vette. It will give those exotic cars a run for the money. A poor man’s Ferrari as they say. |
Welcome c_morris. @ riaa: thanks for coming back from the dead :) room update: all inwalls speakers are installed, carpet is installed and the only thing I am hoping to receive next week is the audio stands and the screen. Right now I have 2 projectors that I am playing with by reflecting images on the wall in order to determine how large I want the screen to be. Surprisingly, a $500 Epson 1080p projector is kicking the hell out of the 7,000 jvc x770r. The jvc looks washed out in comparison and this is in my pitch black room. Granted, I am projecting 4K images on a dark wall so maybe things might be different once I buy an acoustically transparent screen. It is getting annoying at this point because the screen and stands are taking so damn long to arrive. I don’t want to unpack any equipment at all until the projector and the screen are installed. So on my end, I’m done. I’m pretty much waiting on the last few items so I can finish the room. I am also going to be doing room treatment after the entire room is set up. |
Hello everyone- I've made it through this entire thread over the past week. Thanks for the terrific information that has been shared. The biggest benefit for me has been an increased ability to articulate the differences I hear between various speakers and amps I listen to. The "dictionary" of this thread continues to grow. I also appreciate the continued discussion about value treadeoffs between various amps and speakers. The relative comparisons have been hugely helpful for me. Has anyone heard the new Simaudio 860A v2? I believe it was released last month. I wonder how it would compare to the Luxman M-900u amp- the reigning champion class A/B amp. |
These too shall pass. https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649540102-martin-logan-neolith-basalt-black/ [in Florida] |
Among the many speakers I have owned in the same room over the decades are Magnepan 3.5Rs and Accoustat 2 + 2s with their OTL tube amps, Harry Pearson's own pair of Genesis Vsand Nearfield Pipedreams entry level $10K line source speakers. Now, while none may be in the league of the DynAudios, etc, but for those who want mega bang for the < 10k I highly recommend Emerald Physics with carbon fiber drivers. Thier concentric midrange tweeter is amazing as well |
WC, The Dynaudio is a great choice and should sound interesting. I like the symmetrical design of the drivers whereby small instruments with more HF dominance will have the proper smaller, focused imaging as in real life for flutes, triangles, voices, etc. Bigger low freq instruments will have larger imaging as in real life, because of the use of all drivers. Large panels have large imaging in both HF and low freq which is not true to life. The question is whether the purity of the dynamic drivers will approach that of the stat driver. See how the magnesium silicate polymer compares to the beryllium of the Persona or the materials of Magico. I remember the original Esotar tweeter which was wonderful, but may have been handicapped by mediocre midrange and bass drivers of the past. |
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gtaphile thanks for sharing your findings. Sounds like v2 is a major improvement over v1. Any theories on why it may be running hotter in general? Is it too hot to keep your hand on it? WC - Any chance you can post a few pics showing evolution of new room? It has to be exciting that it’s nearing completion. |
Hello
ahofer, the OP (WhiteCamaroSS) has repeatedly requested everyone to stay narrowly on topic because this great thread has suffered of many derailments.... Your post was respectful and eliciting of pondering... but was OT to this thread. Why do not start your own thread on the subject.... I am confident that many will follow you there. Regards,, Guido |
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lucidear I auditioned the original version for a few months waiting for the V2 and during that time I seldom played at high volume. I enjoyed the original but not to the extent that I felt the urge to play most tracks at much higher levels. The new amp has much more control over the speaker to the point that the room pressurizes differently now...so I can let her go... Speakers are PMC IB2SE at 4 ohms. The sound characteristics are similar (in my set-up), however, the differences are not subtle. Top end is more open, image is more focused, more air, more detail, deeper bass which was lacking and just as organic. SimAudio have all their eggs in one basket it seems based on the Munich debut press release and I think it was a wise move. |
gtaphile could it be that it's running hot because it's brand new and needs time to settle in? Also, could you elaborate a bit more on the V2 sound characteristics vs the original? What speakers are you driving it with? I had been reading the company's literature, it said this is better than the original, equals 870a and two are better than a pair of 880s... |
I think most of the conversations here start on topic, but can easily segue to related topics, which seque again, until we are definitely not on the original topic. Just a human thing - we can easily do it when in conversations with others and a certain word or phrase sparks something in our minds and/or hearts and off we go. Most folks understand the right idea to bring it back to the topic and send the unrelated topics to another thread and/or to PM's. For others, the passion of the topic seems to overtake them a bit. It's nice that we help each other out to get back to WC and his journey. Dave |
@whitecamaross Hope your new room is all set and dandy by now. Fill us in on your take on the Levinson 533h when you get a chance, hopefully top to bottom and particularly the bottom... -:) did you use it with the Logans too? Or only your HT speakers? To the rest of the gang, As the title of this thread indicates it's Wcss's experiments with amps and such... Could you kindly start your own threads, whether it's about Tuna & Mercury, vibration control, or the Man who fell to earth etc.? you'd be life savers |
