2. amps-preamps
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My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.

Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.

Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?

Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.

 It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.

Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.

Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.

Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.

Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.

Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.

My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


jays_audio_lab

Showing 13 responses by briano

briano
21 posts
 
I have read this fascinating  journey from the beginning and have found it to be entertaining, informative, silly (repurchasing the same components 4-5 times), and enlightening. Normally I would just move on without commenting but I just can’t tear myself away from reading this in spite of some annoying comments from a few people. Does the term “beating a dead horse” mean anything to you Viper6?
i want to thank WCSS for this ongoing saga. At times I think you’re a crazy neurotic audiophile but then you come back and post some very wise and informative information. Nevertheless, it’s always a fun read.
Just got back from AXPONA. Great show. Hope to share my thoughts soon.
briano
21 posts
 
Here are my comments regarding Axpona.
I can’t believe no one has mentioned the Borresen speakers yet. They had their new reference 05 speakers there, the first pair in the country, and they were simply awesome. Yes, $120k for the pair is not for mere mortals, but compared to all the other 6 figure speakers, it blew them away. Focal Utopia’s being the exception. They were also showing 3 lower end models that all sounded great but all comparatively pricey. Their new ribbon, incorporated in all models, was the best sounding transducer I have ever heard in my 40 years of being in this industry. Recently retired. You will be hearing a lot about these speakers.

Never been a big fan of horn speakers. AvantGarde makes everything sound like its being played by a marching band. Klipsh, no idea why anyone thinks they sound good. That being said, I came across a speaker new to me called Ocean Way Audio Monterey. It looked like a horn type of speaker although they call it a hybrid waveguide system. I didn’t have time to get the skinny but was greatly impressed by the smoothness of the midrange and high frequencies. Of course it had the strengths of a horn speaker with none of the drawbacks. Very impressive but $32k for the pair.

Magico speakers - they play all the notes very well but they just don’t sound musical to me. Extremely over rated as far as I’m concerned.

Marten Logan speakers never impressed me for many years. I never thought they got the woofer to play well with the panels. I stopped paying attention to them for years. I heard the new 13 and 15 speakers at the show and let me tell you, they sure sound great now. Woofers keep up with the panels and way better dynamics than I ever thought possible. Very impressive. I just hope you don’t have to send the panels back every few years to get fixed like the older models.

Friday wasn’t bad but it was very crowded Saturday in the little rooms. Lots of cool products but unfortunately many of those companies won’t be around in a year or two. I have seen many promising companies come and go over the years leaving owners of their products up the creek.

I agree with the previous comments regarding the Wilson Alex speakers. Bad room, bad music, bad sound. Lots of millionaires in there though. Across the way they had the Alexia’s playing with a Rogers tube integrated that sounded way better than the previous room. 

Sanders, Muraudio, Eminent Technology, and many others sounded okay but the music being played in many rooms would make a Bose table radio sound good. I know the manufacturer’s want to make their products sound their best but if that’s the only kind of music that doesn’t embarrass them, I move on. At least Focal and Dynaudio aren’t afraid of rocking out.

I listened to many great products but I kept returning to the though on what I would have to do to afford the Borresen 05 speakers. They spoke to me like no other speaker ever has although the wife seemed pretty firm on the big “NO” she gave me. I wonder if she’ll fit in one of the Borresen crates? Lol.


briano
21 posts
 
Viber6

I find your comments regarding the probable sound of the Dynaudio speakers based upon the symmetry of the drivers to be fascinating. Your ability to describe the sound of components you, in most cases have never heard, is remarkable. I too, possess this ability. If I have heard component A and component B, I can easily extrapolate what component C is going to sound like.
Based upon my superior intellect, I am going to make a suggestion for WCSS regarding his pair of C4 speakers. Having owned a pair of Dynaudio Confidence speakers with the Esotar II tweeter, I can estimate the amount of sound he is giving up by not having the newest model that has the new and improved Esotar III tweeter. Even though I have never heard the Esotar III tweeter, I can extrapolate the sound based upon my experiences with the Esotar II tweeter and my vast knowledge of everything audio. Based upon the specifications of the new tweeter, I estimate an approximate 11-12% improvement in what I like to call “sparkle”. Since WCSS could not obtain the latest model speaker, we can make adjustments to his system in order to make up for the sparkle deficiency. First off, by using the Odin speaker wire vs. the Wireworld, that will give us approximately 3% more sparkle. By experimenting with another two or three dozen amplifiers, I think we can pick up another 3-4% of sparkle. Power cords will give us another percent or so. The last few percent will be the hardest. I would recommend a very large mirror right behind the listening position. This will reflect some of the sparkle back giving a perceived increase in sparkle. This should get us close but if we are still short of sparkle, then a simple purchase of the latest 100k of speaker cables from MIT with the build in tone controls should do the trick. This latest innovation to speaker cables is a huge improvement over the old idea of using tone controls on the electronics themselves. 
This is just one of my many profound ideas and suggestions regarding achieving audio bliss. I am already working on describing the sound characteristics of the yet designed Esotar IV tweeter.

briano
21 posts
 
Seriously MrD? I was being as sarcastic about the above post as I could muster regarding some people’s comments here. I worked many years in the audio industry and I could write books about the crazy stuff I have listened to and observed. It’s true, most audiophiles have no sense of humor. Don’t take this stuff too seriously. It’s about entertainment.
briano
21 posts
 
Viber6

You completely missed the point of my post. You go on and on about how you “think” something will or should sound based upon its specifications or design. You make assumptions without actually hearing the component in question. I was trying to illustrate this by making idiotic suggestions about components I have never heard to change the sound of a tweeter I have never heard. Kind of what you do over and over again.
I do agree with your statement that audio is not a bunch of random combinations. Actual results will absolutely vary from theoretical expectations most of the time. I thought I made that clear in my original post but I guess the satire got in the way for a few of you. 
briano
21 posts
 
WCSS,

Any decent sheetmetal worker should be able to build you some back boxes. There is nothing fancy about them. We used to do it on higher end home theater installations. Just don’t use too thin of a piece of metal as it will vibrate and put some insulation behind the speaker.
briano
21 posts
 
WC

The Wilson Alexia 2 speakers are wonderful but I feel the Focal speakers you currently have are significantly more musical. The tweeter is simply better. Both have excellent bass, dynamics, sound staging, etc., but the Focal Utopias have that great tweeter. And I’m a Wilson owner!

All of the Magico speakers click the boxes of what’s important in a state of the art speaker, however, when I listen to them, I become bored. They’re just not fun to listen to in my opinion. They’re very accurate and transparent and do all the hifi things correctly, but in the words of Ivor (Linn), they don’t carry the tune.

I have read every post from the beginning of this thread. Sometimes I think you go backwards in your search just for the sake of trying something new. I’m also amazed how many times you have repurchased the same component when just a few months earlier determined it wasn’t for you. In this case, keep the Focals because you are definitely not going to like the Wilsons or Magicos any better.
Think of all the money I just saved you. Now sell off all the other things you have laying around unused and buy your wife something nice for Christmas. God knows she deserves it.
briano
21 posts
 
WC

Downgrading your front end and/or electronics to purchase a better (more expensive) speaker makes zero sense unless there is a compatibility problem. Your analogy of too much horsepower for a particular car does not apply here. A speaker can only reproduce the signal it’s sent. If any part of the signal is compromised, the speaker can’t fix or replace it. I have heard many inexpensive speakers hooked up to very expensive electronics and it’s shocking how much better those speakers sound than when hooked up to lesser electronics. I’m certainly not advocating you buy lesser speakers, but I am definitely recommending you don’t degrade your electronics. If you have to sell your favorite amps to purchase a more expensive set of speakers, you are using flawed logic. In the past you have sold off expensive components that you really liked (Constellation) to purchase something else that you needed the money for. Why not sell some/most of the other things you have and keep the pieces that you most like? For instance, why do you still have the C4’s? We both know they’re not the speakers for you. Maybe it would help you to keep your Pass amps? (I said help, not allow).
Most people that have been in this game a long time know that the first thing you do is pick the speaker you like the best. Then you find the amp that works the best with that speaker going backwards to the pre and then your source components. Finally you tune the system to your liking with wires and power cords. I will leave out the room, dsp, conditioning, etc. for now as that is a whole separate conversation. It seems to me that you spend a lot of time trying to find a speaker that works well with your amp of the week only to ultimately reject that amp and speaker combination and move in an entirely different direction with a different amp and start the speaker auditioning all over again. I really don’t understand your comparisons of wires and power cords with amps and speakers your not going to own in a month.
While I don’t understand this journey of yours, it’s not like it hasn’t been an interesting read. Your craziness has been entertaining and I will likely continue to follow it. What I would like to know is this. Is this about ultimately finding your dream system or continuing to explore as many components as possible? I think this would help me and others to better understand what your thinking and where your heading. Thanks for the ride.
briano
21 posts
 
WC

Your speakers finally look like they’re set up correctly but I’m sure Viper6 will tell you the professionals got it all wrong since they’re more than 5’ apart. 
briano
21 posts
 
WC

Excellent write up comparing the Focals and Wilson speakers. You explained the differences between them quite well. If your moving forward with the Alexia I’s, as far as electronics and cabling go, it will work out well if you eventually move up to a more expensive Wilson speaker. Everything you learn with the Alexia I’s should transfer over to the other models.

Viper6

I’m in full agreement with your last post. I’ll be looking for a therapist first thing tomorrow morning. Lol
briano
21 posts
 
WC

I highly recommend the Isoacoutics Gaia speaker isolators. They come in different models depending upon the speakers weight. The model 1’s are for speakers up to 220 pounds ea. The Titan series are for speakers over that.
They make a dramatic improvement over any other device I have tried. It is not a subtle difference like most of the products out there. The best part is that they’re actually affordable unlike many of their competitors products. $599.00/set of 4.
They are distributed by the same company that handles Focal.
briano
21 posts
 
I didn’t feel the review of the Dynaudio C4 Platinums were a sales pitch at all. I thought you presented them as a pair of speakers that you liked, especially for the price. You didn’t rave about them or say they were the best ever. You simply presented them as a very good value in my opinion. In fact, I was surprised it took so much power to wake them up. Even though the audio quality of my IPad is terrible, I was still able to tell that they are a good sounding speaker although that could be that I’m very familiar with that sound after personally owning C1 and C2’s. I also learned from you that the bass is far better on the C4’s. This is the kind of information that will make this channel successful. 
Continue to evaluate components like this. Talk about the positive and negatives of each piece you review. Any potential compatibility issues. I don’t recommend trying to cover too many components in each segment. One or two would be good. You could do an entire segment on power cords alone. Personally, I would like to see you standing up front and center. It would be much more personal. 
There was a huge improvement just from the first to second episode. I’m sure they will keep improving with each new episode. By the way, could you tell us the song and artist you played? I really liked it.
briano
21 posts
 
Techno,

Why don’t you go back to your antifa sites for a while and give this one a rest. I think you’ll fit right in.
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