My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
@whitecamaross i highly recommend the Starsound Technologies Sistrum Apprentice platforms, especially for speakers http://starsoundtechnologies.com/ Call them and talk to Robert , the owner..... very good guy. Phone: 330-260-6769 |
Fibre Optical streaming is the future. This is not TOSLINK. https://www.ui.com/unifi-switching/unifi-switch-8-150w/ ($200) https://www.sonore.us/Signature-Rendu-SE.html (if you are using a DAC with USB). In the future I think all DACs will have the Fibre Optical input like the Lumin X1 has today. https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/lumin-x1-review-r860/ |
So i had a total of 5 people come over over the last 2 days and each and everyone of them said the same thing which was that they have never ever heard anything sound remotely close in my room or living room to what i have put together now. I am actually beyond shocked myself at how good things sound. I can't put it into words that can describe the great feeling i have with entire system as a whole. The synergy, dynamics, speed, explosiveness, muscularity, clarity, layers of detail, zero fatigue, etc, etc, etc. Me saying that i am happy would be an understatement because i am actually FLOORED with how everything is sounding. With that out of the way, here are my thoughts of the pass labs xp30 vs boulder 2010: Pass labs xp30 PROS: - sounds very lively -rounded high frequencies which allows you to listen to recordings that are not perfect - great punch and meat on the bones when it comes to the lows - awesome mids that reminds you that this is a class a preamp - open soundstage - not analytical or cold. It is very inviting and works hard to make each song as pleasant as possible - excellent bang for the buck Boulder 2010 Pros: - clear like water - Bass control with zero bloat or overhang - amazing separation and imaging - it gives you nothing but the facts - It will reward you by letting you hear each hard earned dollar you spend in your system - dynamics are startling to the point that you almost cringe each time the music has dynamic swings -the best built preamp i have ever owned and i mean miles and miles ahead. It actually makes ARC preamps look and feel like toys in comparison. Pass labs xp30 CONS: (please note that these are based on the comparison i made to the boulder 2010 which is 3 times the price) - sounds congested at times - lacks the speed & dynamics of more expensive preamps - It is not as transparent as the boulder 2010. ( i actually did not hear much of a difference using a cd or streaming tidal through this preamp, but i did notice a difference through the boulder) - it has great bass, but not as controlled or tight as the boulder Boulder 2010 cons: - $$$$$$$ -$$$$$$$$$$$$ - very transparent which means it will put your weak points right in your face - very but very difficult to find on the used market - you will find yourself thinking about buying expensive powercords to see how much better it can sound With all that said, the gap between both preamps is quite obvious through my system. Yesterday i actually had one person tell me that he thinks the boulder 2010 is about 60% of my success here and the xs300s probably the other 40% (he was not counting the speakers) so who knows if this boulder is what is making my alexias sing the way they do now. The only way to find out will be by me buying another preamp at some point and see what the outcome will be. For me, i feel that found the preamp that will continue to go forward with me in this journey and will only be sold if another preamp can come in here and beat it, but other than that i won't move out of it. It took me 2 years to find it so i won't take that chance. What is in my head right now? well, first it is to sell all this stuff i have in my room that i am not using anymore and then begin to look into getting a better streamer to feed a better signal to my esoteric k1. i actually demoed the aurender w20 today and was very impressed. i am also thinking about doing a home demo of the nordost odin 2 speaker cables (i am nuts i know) and potentially their odin 2 powercords. Finally, i want to do isolation devices such as stillpoints or anything like that. we shall see... |
@ricred1 You pretty much nailed it on the head. Changing speakers for something better will certainly improve a lot of aspects, but it can present other challenges that you don't have right now. For instance, with the Alexia 1 you get a larger sound, clear, smooth sound without going over the edge, but you also introduce a level of bass that if your current amps can not control the right way then you will introduce overwhelming bottom end. This is what would force you into looking for amps with other strengths. I don't pretend to know it all, but this is MY PERSONAL experience so far. |
"I have come to the realization that I value a big soundstage and smoothness above everything else. Small sound bores me and does nothing for me. I need to be swallowed completely my the presentation in order for me to stay engaged." "At this level, no speaker will forgive you with piss poor electronics so although this speaker will sound very good with average electronics, you won’t untap its potential until you invest in better electronics." I think the statements above are very important and provide insight into why you come to some of your conclusions. I too prefer a big soundstage and smoothness over analytical and detailed. Speakers that are overly detailed and laser focused don't sound as real to my ears. As a matter of fact most of them give me headaches! Your second point is one of the big reasons I won't upgrade my speakers. In order you get the most out of the speakers I prefer, I would be required to upgrade everything. I'm willing to accept my current system's weaknesses; because I simply can't afford to upgrade everything to go to the next level. |
briano, All audiophiles need therapists. We are all trying to do the impossible, which is trying to get mechanical devices to sound like we have real musicians at our command. The rich nobility in past centuries had resident musicians, but even they couldn't flip a switch and get musicians to produce on a seconds notice. Only therapists can help us, LOL. |
For right now I need to stay with Alexia 1 and learn the speaker. It will serve me as a learning tool if I decide to go up the ladder. As far as your comment about the bass, I can understand when you say "call attention" because indeed this can be viewed as you describe it , but when I went back to focal I felt like it didn't have tbe same meat on the bones but rather just more detail and imaging but those traits don't keep me on my seat over long listening sessions. I tried and it didn't so this is also about what speaker characters engage you and translate into long listening sessions. Neither one is right or wrong, but rather which one makes you excited to come home to listen. |
WC Excellent write up comparing the Focals and Wilson speakers. You explained the differences between them quite well. If your moving forward with the Alexia I’s, as far as electronics and cabling go, it will work out well if you eventually move up to a more expensive Wilson speaker. Everything you learn with the Alexia I’s should transfer over to the other models. Viper6 I’m in full agreement with your last post. I’ll be looking for a therapist first thing tomorrow morning. Lol |
Soundstage is a great thing. But for me, I value clarity and overtones retrieval even more. I feel soundstage is a more abstract audiophile aspect. And I sure can’t tolerate a speaker with bass that calls for attention. I find this very annoying. Oh well the thread is about WC’s journey, not mine , so back to the OP. |
@kren. The neoliths were never in my new room so they wouldn’t be included in my statement above. They are still the best I've owned but would the Alexx change that ? I have come to the realization that I value a big soundstage and smoothness above everything else. Small sound bores me and does nothing for me. I need to be swallowed completely my the presentation in order for me to stay engaged. |
WCC, I am glad you got to hear the virtues of the Alexia I’s. They truly are great speakers. As good as they are, the Alexia II’s are a noticeable improvement over the I’s. The challenge is you will have to put out more cheddar for the II’s since they are current. But a worthy investment, unless you can find a pair of ALEXX’s for a great price - which are a major step up. Decisions, Decisions |
briano, Professionals may bring valid measurements and one set of good ears to the table. But there is always the matter of individual taste. I happen to prefer the clarity of closer R/L positioning with toe-in so all drivers are firing at my ears, but realize that I am getting a smaller width soundstage. Other listeners value a wider soundstage, and speakers closer to the walls which gives more bass if they want that. I agree about the importance of the best electronics you can get. Everything in the chain is important, and Linn used to say their superior turntable would produce better results on a cheap speaker than another turntable on better speakers. However, there are more differences between speakers than any other component, so I believe you should get the best speaker you can, and then optimize it with better electronics, etc. For example, horn lovers can do well with a low power tube amp which probably offers purer sound than high power tube amps. |
WC, I've been lurking and following your journey since the beginning, but this is my first post. Have you spiked the Alexia's yet? If not, I encourage you to do so as they will be even that much better in terms of bass, focus, clarity and cohesiveness. At least that has always been my experience with owning Wilson's. Keep up the fun, it's enjoyable to follow! Regards, Dave |
“In short , they are the best speakers I've heard in my room.” Oops, I guess you already crowned the Wilson’s the kings, assuming by “my room” you mean to encompass your entire journey. Let’s see how they stand the test of time since it’s super early. There have been other components that on day 1 you’ve said were amazing but then they fade away quickly without much further praise - but the neo’s certainly were not in that category as you repeatedly praised them as the best over your year of ownership. Until now .... Will the mid-level Wilson’s hold the perch as long? Doubtful given the turnover but who knows? |
So WC, you lived with the Neoliths for over a year and loved them....have these mid-level and dated Wilsons already surpassed the Neos in your all time speaker hierarchy? Great review so far - just waiting for V to pipe in and explain to all of us why the Wilsons can’t be as good as WC is telling us they are (based on theory of course or on properties WC should be valuing more but isn’t) |
Ok here we go: Focal scala evo PROS Clarity and detail in spades Tight & agile bottom end Incredible imaging Sounds great even if you’re just streaming music from your phone. Yes it really does ! Not a big issue to position them in the room due to the nice adjustments on the back of the speaker. I recommend tubes or class A for these speakers. Wilson Alexia 1 PROS Huge sound Extremely organic sounding with an amazing level of realism Bass that rivals most subwoofers out there Dynamic has hell with explosiveness Smooth and comfortable at any volume level Instruments are suspended in the air They disappeared completely in my room They are chameleons that sound huge when the song calls for it or can turn into bookshelf speakers if that’s what the music is telling them to do. I recommend you pawn most of your gear and get serious artillery for these. No shortcuts here Focal scala evo CONS: High resolution also means that it can get somewhat edgy when pushed hard If you are a rock fan, you can enjoy them but not at loud levels If you have a tendency to get ear ringing with loud or long listening sessions , this might not be the speaker for you. On the other hand, those of you with "older ears " might love this tweeter due to the extra detail this tweeter delivers. Also, those of you who do a lot of low level listening will totally dig the sparkle this tweeter has. They scale very nicely but not to the same degree as the Alexia. At this level, no speaker will forgive you with piss poor electronics so although this speaker will sound very good with average electronics, you won’t untap its potential until you invest in better electronics. Wilson Alexia CONS: BASS will command your attention but in the wrong room it will be a recipe for disaster This is not the speaker for those of you living in an apartment. It will piss the hell out of your neighbors because the bass will travel through the walls. They need space and are tricky to set up. Don’t pretend to be a damn expert in regards to speaker placement just because you have positioned Logans , yg, magico, b&w etc. If you show up with electronics the likes of bhk, parasound, classe, emotiva, Rotel, etc , you will soon hate these speakers. If you are annoyed by bass or a muscular presentation then stay away. If you stream a lot of tidal, you will actually hear the difference between streaming and playing a cd which you might hate because you will hear the quality of a well recorded cd and how superior it is vs streaming. (The Scala Evo sounded good with both and you couldn’t tell much of a difference between a CD and streaming ) With all this said , I did a lot of listening today and tried both preamps, 2 other sets of speaker cables and had a few people over helping out. No matter what we played , what cable, what preamp, the focal always sounded great and the Alexia just went about its business by showing you what all these changes were doing to your music. It was easier to dissect changes on your front end using the Alexias which I really liked. We also felt that the Alexia was always more engaging or that it just drew you into the music much quicker than the focal did. There was also the feeling that the Scala Evo is like an m60 machine gun by the way it fired so rapidly at you and the Alexia is a 50 caliber machine gun that just blasts harder and for longer distances but it is a big gun that needs to be mounted on a vehicle to be able to shoot it because of its power that can send you flying with its kick. Finally, after taking everything else above in consideration I have decided that the Alexia will be the speaker that I will roll forward with. This means that next year I will need to be patient to see if I can score a pair of ALEXX ? We shall see what the future holds. Tomorrow I will give my impressions of the xp30 vs boulder 2010. For now, I will go back to listening to more music. |
Speakers are 6 ft from the front wall, 4 feet from the sides and 11 feet away from my ears. They sound incredible with my front end. Those of you who critized the Alexia 1 for being boomy, incoherent or broken are beyond wrong on many counts. This is the speaker where cheap amps, preamps and cables are not accepted. It’s either you have the front for this speaker or you don’t buy it. If you try crap, they will make sure you feel like they are the worst speaker you’ve heard in your life. There’s no shortcuts with the Alexia 1 period. In short , they are the best speakers I've heard in my room. |
Psnyder +1 "the better the system, the more important these seemingly unimportant details become" every single part of a cable whether it is power cable or IC or speaker and its structure, the ends, the jumpers, the contact area and contact material all combine and slight differences can be heard if one cares to do the trials. They show up in unexpected changes that one believes are first and foremost the components themselves. |
Ok guys , The alexias have been professionally set up today. Take a look at the main picture of my virtual system. They spent about 3 hours today setting up which included moving other stuff around. This is why you don't see the dynaudios anymore. This is going to be an interesting shootout later on today. Stay tuned. |
re: Nordost Jumpers Sorry to jump in a little late on the topic as I've been traveling. I have had extensive experience with Jumpers using a couple of different Nordost speaker cables and even more when working with another "participant" on this thread who has even higher end Nordost than myself. With Nordost, it is absolutely critical that the jumpers are at same or better level than the speaker cables themselves. I have theories as to why this is, but I could not technically argue them against people on this site that know much more about this than myself. What I can say is that I had basic Nordost jumpers and Frey 1 speaker cables (Heimdahl IC) with excellent results. Which posts were jumped allowed me to slightly adjust tone and "impact" of the system but all ways sounded musical. When I upgraded my system to all Valhalla 1 the overall sound of the system deteriorated dramatically, even though I preferred some aspects of presentation. The harshness, or thinness that some people attribute to Nordost was very present. I tried jumping highs, lows and cross jumping the way that Nordost recommends. Nothing seemed to help. I was about to just resell the V1 s but in a last ditch effort, I bought a pair of Reference jumpers. Instantly, the issues went away. The overall sound and musicality leapt past the Frey level. Now all of the detail and clarity that Nordost is known for was matched with bass response, depth and coherence that makes for fantastic, uncolored and unfatiguing listening experience. Some months later, I had the opportunity to land a pair of Valhalla 1 jumpers so that mains and jumpers were identical. Although I did not expect that it would or could get better, there was a significant improvement to all aspects of the sound. Not bad vs. good, but more very good vs better. Additionally, which posts were jumped became more or less inconsequential. I have heard from close friends that have Odin 1 and Valhalla 2 speaker cabling and they have had similar results. WC, my dealer is a Wilson and a Nordost rep. They have the same experiences. Because of the incredible attention placed on time coherence with Wilson, I expect that the sensitivity to the jumpers to be heightened even over my own (ProAc Response 5). Our friend, who listens to incredibly fast YG speakers has heard a significant improvement from going from Reference to Valhalla 2 jumpers. As you know, my system is not nearly at the overall level of what yours is, but my experience is that the better the system, the more important these seemingly unimportant details become. Again, I can't explain why it is the case, but only that I have found it to be the case in several situations. I think it is particularly true once you start playing at the V2 and Odin levels. |
Umm....Not a Financial advisor/manager. I manage millions of dollars of friends/family money for FREE...not as an occupation. Been retired for over a decade (from I/T). Hard to be positive in regards to your comments cause you just keep beating people over the head with the same redundant crap for almost 2 years now. Its also the reason so many people that USE to be involved in this thread have since moved on. Same ol same ol....Your the expert at everything with no practical use of any of the components mentioned. All you have is theory. You have the wisdom of somebody that has memorized the entire book "Kama Sutra" without ever actually partaking in any of the "events" in real life. |
RIAA, If you read carefully, I said, "spending big money for poorer real performance." I bet that in your successful career as a financial advisor/manager, you got clients into many good investments that were undervalued so they could later make good profits. The fact is that in audio, there are very few items that are true investments. The only investment value is if they provide long term enjoyment so you don’t care if they depreciate. The challenge is to get maximum enjoyment without blowing too much money. WC has good financial management by buying low, so he can survive another day to go for the next thing, just as an investor tries to buy low so he can preserve his capital. In that respect WC and I are similar. If I do find something for $30,000 that is truly superior, I won’t bother spending (wasting) $10,000 on something else which is merely good, although for $1,600 I got a near new Mytek Brooklyn Amp which beats almost anything I heard at home for much more money. But everyone has practical spending limits on audio in view of all the other pleasures of life. Even Bill Gates doesn’t have enough money for ALL the good causes he would like to support, so he makes his choices. It is better to engage in productive positive conversation rather than return insults. Please take the hint, and thanks for listening. |
Quick impressions of the Alexia : - wide and deep presentation - mids are locked dead center even when speakers are not perfectly positioned - mid bass is all there unlike most speakers - deep muscular bass that makes your chair vibrate when pushed hard - warmer sounding than focal scala evo but still contains detail - extremely dynamic which almost startles you - very "real" sounding when tbe recording calls for it - it can present big issues for those of you without a room with sufficient size which allows you to put them 4-5 feet into the room So this right now is a tough call because on some songs the focal sounds tighter and more controlled and in other songs the Alexia sounds more real and lifelike. Right now I can say it might have to do with the music genre that you listen to. If you want slam and extreme dynamics then Wilson takes it. If you want incredible resolution and tons of detail then focal takes it. Tomorrow my shootout will be with all sorts of music so that no speaker is at an advantage. The goal is to make it as fair as possible. By the way, I have spoken to Wilson audio in regards to the Alexia 1 and all the comments that people are making about it not being a coherent speaker and their response was that most people don't use the right amps with this speaker. This speaker drops to 1.9 ohms at 83 hz so it's not an easy load at all. This is the reason why the Alexia 2 needed to be more efficient because a lot of people refused to buy the right amps for the Alexia 1. If I were to give my input, I don't here anything incoherent with it. More to come. |
I have a Wilson dealer coming out tomorrow at 10am to set them up. We will see what will happen. I briefly tried the focals again just now and they are terrific speakers hands down. They have an incredible amount of air and detail along with deep super tight bass. I also wanted to say that I suspect the nordost odin 1 speaker cable might not be for this Wilson. It gets the mids and highs to totally burst out of the speaker but the Alexias don't need help in this department. They already do that on their own. Anyhow I will keep playing around tonight and report back. |
I commend you on your epic adventure but those massive speakers deserve to be professionally installed.....you can always deviate from that to tweak to your liking but at least you would have Wilson recommended setup to start. The interaction of equipment and the room is so integral why wonder if you got it right... I am sure will sound excellent either way but if you want pedal to metal... |
Whenever I go listen to the Wilsons near me, the first thing that hits me is the size of the sound-stage and then the dynamic impact of the speakers. Truly impressive. |
Ok guys I’ve uploaded pictures of the Alexia and xp30. Take a look at how close in size both speakers are. Tomorrow I will be having the big shootout around 2pm. I have several friends coming to help to try to dial in each speaker at a time so we can listen critically. For now , all I can say is that the Alexia is no slouch by any means. Monstrous soundstage even in the crappy position where I have them on the pictures so I expect them to be ready to battle tomorrow. I will give a small update with my impressions later tonight. Stay tuned. |
@chazzzy007 @briano "Downgrading your front end and/or electronics to purchase a better (more expensive) speaker makes zero sense unless there is a compatibility problem. Your analogy of too much horsepower for a particular car does not apply here. A speaker can only reproduce the signal it’s sent. If any part of the signal is compromised, the speaker can’t fix or replace it. I have heard many inexpensive speakers hooked up to very expensive electronics and it’s shocking how much better those speakers sound than when hooked up to lesser electronics." I fully agree here. |
WC Downgrading your front end and/or electronics to purchase a better (more expensive) speaker makes zero sense unless there is a compatibility problem. Your analogy of too much horsepower for a particular car does not apply here. A speaker can only reproduce the signal it’s sent. If any part of the signal is compromised, the speaker can’t fix or replace it. I have heard many inexpensive speakers hooked up to very expensive electronics and it’s shocking how much better those speakers sound than when hooked up to lesser electronics. I’m certainly not advocating you buy lesser speakers, but I am definitely recommending you don’t degrade your electronics. If you have to sell your favorite amps to purchase a more expensive set of speakers, you are using flawed logic. In the past you have sold off expensive components that you really liked (Constellation) to purchase something else that you needed the money for. Why not sell some/most of the other things you have and keep the pieces that you most like? For instance, why do you still have the C4’s? We both know they’re not the speakers for you. Maybe it would help you to keep your Pass amps? (I said help, not allow). Most people that have been in this game a long time know that the first thing you do is pick the speaker you like the best. Then you find the amp that works the best with that speaker going backwards to the pre and then your source components. Finally you tune the system to your liking with wires and power cords. I will leave out the room, dsp, conditioning, etc. for now as that is a whole separate conversation. It seems to me that you spend a lot of time trying to find a speaker that works well with your amp of the week only to ultimately reject that amp and speaker combination and move in an entirely different direction with a different amp and start the speaker auditioning all over again. I really don’t understand your comparisons of wires and power cords with amps and speakers your not going to own in a month. While I don’t understand this journey of yours, it’s not like it hasn’t been an interesting read. Your craziness has been entertaining and I will likely continue to follow it. What I would like to know is this. Is this about ultimately finding your dream system or continuing to explore as many components as possible? I think this would help me and others to better understand what your thinking and where your heading. Thanks for the ride. |
This thread (I mean no disrespect to OP, it’s not his fault, rather the nature of the forum thing) has a very poor SNR, about 6 dB. Pretty sure we would all agree a very poor amplifier by nominal standards; but similar to some actual amps, the distortion in this thread can sometimes be pleasing, and sometimes not; Happy Friday |
