This might not be the case, I don't know, but in my experience when burning in the equipment including cables bass settles last. But I would expect at least 500 hours for speakers to fully burn in.
Youtube quality varies, that's for sure, even in the middle of the night sometimes. But I ran direct and quick comparison between Magico and Wilson and that was around midnight I think. Well, we'll see what happens next, with new source, more hours on speakers and amps and maybe better quality recordings.
I understand, though, why so many people choose Wilson.
The so-called law of diminishing return while real is also complicated. As an example, Jay's latest Wilson speakers are so much better that what he had before. Double or more the price ? More than worth it. $100k Boulder monoblocks compared to $60k Mephisto stereo ? Worth it for me, no doubt. But yes, you have to jump and spend a lot more for it to be worth it. $55k Soulution integrated compared to $18k Diablo ? I have no idea, they do sound different though. |
I listened yesterday and again today to the 'Magico M6: We begin to get serious' and I don't hear what techno and inna are referring to. Everything top to bottom sounded fantastic. No recessed midrange or midrange heavy and the bass sounded just right. Also I read the YouTube responses thinking they would reflect what techno and inna were talking about but there were way more positive comments than negative. In fact out of 26 responses (excluding Jay's replies) I counted 14 positive / 3 negative / and 3 neutral (didn't say one way or the other).
Music and audio systems are so subjective it's no wonder there is such a split on most every speaker, component, cable and isolation video that Jay presents.
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This issue has been discussed by YouTube on several forums. The word is that when the video is being watched by many, the quality differs. They claim that the best time to watch videos is in the middle of the night in order to avoid heavy traffic. I can't say with certainty how true this is.
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@whitecamaross
@inna
So, yesterday I just happened to be sitting at my computer when the new "Magico M6: We begin to get serious" video was released. I began listening to it immediately. It sounded bass shy and midrange heavy. Well, I went back to the video about 20 minutes later for some reason and found that somehow the sound was being limited, not sure if by YT or what. But when I listened to it a second time, it was very linear with great bass, midrange, and top end. Again, I'm not sure why that is happening, but it is.
As a matter of fact, it happened again today. I went to YT just now, because of Inna's comment, and played the video and again and found it to be
bass shy and midrange heavy. I tried the video about three more times and boom, now it was playing correctly. So for those who heard lack luster sound please try it again. Maybe WC can explain it here. |
I am using Burson former top of the line dac and Grado RS-1 headphones for computer lstening, Wywires Silver USB cable and power cord. It is good enough to hear the differences and shortcomings.
Compared to Wilson Magico is so far very lightweight, lacking dynamics and real bass. It has other advantages, that is true.
In the last video midrange was definitely recessed, techno is right. |
Jay, in your discussions with Mike from Suncoast Audio, have you ever talked about the Taiko Audio SGM Extreme? Is this something you'd consider making part of your system? |
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I noticed both here and on yt that for folks who are mentioning bright or lacking bass or midrange, WC is telling them to do better than listening on their phone.
I don't think WC is trying to upset folks with those comments - what that tells me is that WC is not hearing that at all "in person". And, keep in mind, WC loves bass, so if it was lacking bass, I'm sure we would hear about it from him.
Dave
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My guess is the Magico M6 will go down in history of this thread as the never broken in speaker...
But we have a much bigger problem. We cannot give our honest opinion about a speaker without being ruthlessly responded to.
The M6 latest videos have showed an edgy, undynamic, midrange recessed and lacking bass omph sound. I am not the only one to have noticed this compared to the last Wilson and Focal setups. |
@techno
Maybe it's time to take another break. |
I have to say that some of the "harshest" critics of the high end (wilsons, magicos, big focals, etc, etc) tend to be people whose reference points have not been that "high".
For instance, i can totally understand if someone hates Magico or Wilson or any other high end brand as long as THEIR reference point is or has been "high" as well. I don’t quite get how someone can despise what is considered by most the "pinnacle" of audio when they have never played in that same arena or level.
You can’t hate on Ferrari unless you have owned a Lambo (this is just an example). How could you hate on Ferrari or Lambo if your fingers have never hugged the steering wheel of one of those beasts or let alone own one? What "qualified" experience do you have to completely "$hit" on supercars when you are pushing a Honda Civic? (please don’t take offense, i am only making a point).
I understand i am "public" and i have to roll with the punches, but could you all imagine if i decided to pick apart the systems of those who are harsh with ultra high end? I’d look like a total a$$... I’d be the prick.
That said, giving an opinion is great and yes in the end this is all about an opinion what we do here on this thread.
Just remember, there is a difference between an "opinion" or being "abrasive" to the point that you seem angry and are trying to justify what you own over what someone else has which doubles, triples, quadruples what you have invested on your rig.
This isn’t an attempt at trying to block opinions. On the contrary, this is an attempt at making sure that opinions are given instead of destructive criticism - which some people simply love to do.
Lastly, yes we all know that more money does not equal better performance all the time. Some of the best systems out there are costly because in order for you to get an extra 5% improvement in a system that pretty much has everything would cost a ton of more money. The more "up ladder" you go, the larger the amount of money needed to make a slight improvement.
Lets say you have a system that is a total of about $30,000 for everything and the amplifier in this rig is $3k and now you are about to buy an amp that is $10,000. The improvement this $30k system would experience is HUGE.
In contrast, if you have a $300,000 system with the amplifier costing around $40k and you decide to replace it with a $60k amplifier, the improvement in this system won't be as drastic as the system that costs $30k (assuming both of these systems are properly designed systems of course). This is because that $300k system is nearing a point in which the room for improvement is not as big as the cheaper system.
The law of diminishing returns is much larger in the ultra high end systems. It always has been and it will always be. |
@riaa
Ahhh, now I know why he's so critical of high end audio. I take back my wanting to hear his system. |
Rbach, Luxman M900 + Mcintosh C47 + Dynaudio Special 40's = Unbeatable Audio Magic!! :) |
Boulder is more revealing than Gryphon Mephisto, ruthless in fact. |
It's hard to compare this recording with Soulution/Magico because tunes are very different. Besides, I like the Iron Hand tune.
I don't think that Magico's sound is artificial or edgy, but nor do I think it is neutral. They keep sounding lightweight though, for my taste. The sound got no power of delivery, not yet at least.
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You have it in the palm of your hands... just unlock it... |
I would give anything to hear techno's system.
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Lol. You can’t make your phone speaker sing buddy. I could bring the damn live presentation in my room and it won’t help you. You should try to invest in something else. |
Still has that artificial sheen in the highs. The midrange doesn’t seem to push through.
Maybe it’s just the speakers that are not broken in. Idk 🤷🏼♂️ |
Why don’t we get serious here... Shall we ? Here we go: https://youtu.be/m6J11Uxqg04Let the critics come out now...don’t hide behind the damn bushes now. I’m here waiting...silently. Where is the shrillness? Where is the harshness ? Where is the sterile cold sound? Where is the lack of clarity? Go ahead and write your essay real careful before you answer. You might want to consult with your partner, friend, spouse, gf, or anyone else to be sure you are hearing correctly before you post. |
Contradictory phrase--"neutral without life." The goal of high fidelity is neutrality--strive to create a likeness of the real thing without artificial colorations. The real thing IS life, but those who think "life" means flavoring and coloring the sound are entitled to whatever flavoring they like, but that is artificial. Of Jay's and Steve's 3 videos of the Alexx, M6 and GTA speakers in my reposts on p 302, the GTA is the most neutral and lifelike. Of the 3 speakers, the M6 tonality is the warmest/darkest, which some people prefer. After the next quarter million bucks is spent, the M6 videos will still display those characteristics, but the GTA with the modest Pass and Lampi tube dac will still be the champ for clarity/neutrality/life.
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Issue is most people want the "easy" way out by finding colored speakers which isn’t wrong....it’s a different approach...
Most people are "scared" of trying revealing speakers because their room might stink like $h!t once they hear what their electronics really sound like...
Very few dare to buy ultra revealing speakers because they know it is not for the faint of heart.
Wasn’t that why many people criticized my Mephisto? Yes...i remember...ultra revealing..a wild child that won’t tolerate bs...
If you can rip a page from my book it should it " don't buy revealing stuff if you lose your head easily. ".
I want a camaro zl1 or zl1 1le. The latter has my attention because it is a track oriented vehicle that comes with sticky tires and more aggressive suspension at the expense of a harsh ride. There are different options for a reason folks.
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With all of the colorations in an audio system (your room being the biggest one), I would think a neutral speaker would be an asset.
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Neutral without life.
=
Artificial. |
You're correct...neutral without character is an accurate statement.
You are hearing what is coming to them and not what isn't coming. I think you're the first person here who has actually made one accurate comment about the m6. |
Yes if anything it will make it more artificial sounding if in fact that is how you perceive the speakers to sound. I personally find the speakers to sound neutral without life and preferred the Wilson's but again that's my opinion. |
How could a 83 k source improve a speaker that is fundamentally flawed in sounding artificial and etched ? |
Female children have the best measured hearing response. That doesn't mean that they understand what they hear. I have witnessed old musicians who have a greater understanding of the complex sounds of music, and they point out things that young inexperienced musicians miss. The midrange is where most of the melodic content is, so the old musicians still have good midrange perception even if they are deaf over 5 kHz. I knew a young mastering engineer who worked with the renowned Bob Ludwig, and he said that the 73 year old Ludwig taught him a lot about what to listen for.
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Then I would suggest top of the line Soulution separates, and then top Boulder to compare. Somehow, I don't believe that either Gryphon or D'Agostino would be perfect match with Magico. I can be wrong, so what ? |
Vivaldi One? Another DCS, again?😂 |
$83K dac ?..Not bad. If it is a dac.
Yes, I think most women will prefer Magico for the transparency and soaring quality. This does not necessarily mean that they hear better, they might hear differently and have different preferences. Well, women are not men, why should they hear the same ? |
I’ll begin to extinguish the fire soon...I’ve been very vocal about the fact that I’m going to be moving up the ladder slowly when it comes to electronics and that I’m simply playing with the smaller (cheaper) offerings to satisfy the desire from those who want to hear this level of gear so they don’t feel left out.
With that said, my first component for the mágico lands in fort Lauderdale International Airport on Monday.
The msrp of this component is $83,000.... Yes it’s a source... Strap on your seat belt because sh!t is about to get REAL soon...I’m just sitting here eating nachos while i watch the discussion here...
Jay’s face = 😁
Oh, let me address the next criticism before it is said:
" oh wow Jay you had to spend $83,000 in a source to elevate the already expensive mágico speaker..."
Jay’s answer: " yes, i am about to turn up the boost on this 2000hp dodge viper. We’ve been driving around on low boost " |
So women chose magico...
according to what has been said, women have better hearing than men...hmm...
Is there a doctor in the house that can explain this...uhem... |
@techno__dude
The guy that cuts my yard has many varied opinions too and is also pretty certain there is a conspiracy to make him buy $175,000 Magicos. Is that you Paco and shouldn’t you be applying the pre-emergent right now? |
Returning to Wilson/Magico subject, I played those videos for some of my friends and as expected some preferred Wilson and others Magico. All women preferred Magico though appreciated Wilson too. M6 has very strong points. By the way, most preferred Gryphon to Boulder with Wilson, so I am in minority there. |
techno
So many things wrong with your last post. From poor grammar to incorrect facts. Should have stayed in school a little longer.
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carey1110 you never seems to miss an appearance when the whole thing is just exposed...
It’s all marketing. It’s been showed naked even more with the latest yt videos and the retailer passing by ( yeah sure) pushing the Magicos after they got destroyed by the viewers...
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Sure thing viber I’ll give a listen. Thx |
Carey1110,
Listen to my three videos on page 302 of Alexx, M6 and GTA playing the same song, "Iron Hand." It is obvious to anyone without bias (let a friend play all for you so you are blinded) that the clarity of the GTA reigns supreme. Many people like what the M6 does, according to their taste. I preferred the clarity and midrange neutrality of even the Alexx compared to the M6. The honest truth is that the M6 is like your chosen wife/girlfriend who has obvious flaws in her looks compared to supermodels, but you love the combination of attributes she has.
I agree that Mike is sincere and helpful in many ways. He makes his customers feel that they are best friends with their best interests at heart, a far cry from most pushy salesman out to try to sell the most expensive thing they can. |
Techno- Maybe the down sides of a speaker that cost $175k are few and far between. However the upsides are numerous and are the first to be noticed. This is a very early stage of evaluation. It may take a while to find the flaws in a speaker of this caliber however insignificant they maybe. Sure a dealer will certainly help us see the great things they do but it up to us to agree or disagree. Mike seems like a well seasoned audiophile with a great deal of expertise and will be able to help get the best from this speaker. Dealers like this are few a far between. Give it some time and see where this goes. We may even learn a thing or two. Personally I’m enjoying this new style. I appreciate Mike donating he time for us. Many dealers won’t give you the time of day. |
techno, let's leave them alone with that. It's mostly or exclusively dollars that count in the end, as you imply. Dealers have to push products, the only question is how exactly they do it, their approach.
The latest videos are no different than many others on youtube. |
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Sorry guys, but the latest yt videos are just like all the others out there...
A retailer being interviewed by an audiophile indirectly pushing a product. Just tell me how it is any different than all the others vids ?...
Is there any moment in those vids where they talk about the product downsides ? ... No, just like any reviewer video outhere, it seems the M6 is the perfect product and if it ever sounds bad or artificial to someone that must conspicuously be the associated electronics...
What’s the purpose of asking your viewers opinions, if it never counts in the end. |
haha...Southern California. You? |
Funny! I also have Carbon Limited Subs! Where are you located Ron17? |
@ fastfreight
Yes, thank you for sharing. I also have the Mola Mola Makua preamp with DAC option into a Simaudio 870a amp running YG Carmel 2's with (2) REL Carbon Limited subs. Heard so many great things about the Audionet Max's. Also working with Bill Parish was an absolute pleasure. Looking to upgrade my speakers now.
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Hi Ken
Thanks for sharing your journey above. I have always been curious about audionet. It has been the brand that has escaped me but you never know what the future holds.
For now, i don’t have plans to bring audionet but that is typically how it is for me until the opportunity presents itself and then i have it here.
Thank you again for sharing your thoughts! |
Hi Jay, You do an amazing job with all of this tuff! Thanks!! I will share my short amp ventures as some are pertinent to your discussion and responses:
My upgrade path started with my Classe SSP-800 and CA-2300 stereo amp. This was years ago upgraded from very fine Parasound Halo stuff.
I was a happy man with nice components until my SSP crapped out and my search began.
I got PS Audio Stellar series in, and back it went. Then I went all BHK with DAC, Pre and BHK-250 stereo amp. It was better, but again the upgrade path led me to try an Audionet entry level Pre 1 G3 and an Auralic Vega G2 DAC. I started to hear the resolution I crave. Then came the Mola Mola Kaluga's. Wow, I was blown away by the dynamics and extension. Finally, I got in the Audionet Pre G2 with the Audionet Max mono amps. These are amazing! Especially the amps. Great everything. Bass, detail, resolution, but especially soundstage and imaging, never with fatigue. They draw me in like nothing else I have heard. I actually have two fairly reference systems.
BSMT is Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC, Audionet Pre G2, Audionet Max amps, and YG Hailey 2.2 speakers with REL subs. I use all Kubala Sosna Elation cabling. It all makes a difference.
FAMILY ROOM Was Mola Mola Makua w internal Tambaqui and Mola Mola Kaluga amps running Revel Salon 2 speakers and REL subs If I did not have the bsmt system I would never have known. But I was always drawn in when going down there.
So I lugged the amps upstairs and inserted the Max amps with the Makua. Wow. There it was. Amazing imaging and soundstage. My Salon 2's came to life like never before. My lady, who is fairly tired of my upgrading and talking about it all the time, did have to agree.
I swapped in the Kaluga's downstairs, and the sparkle and magic was gone. Not bad at all, but not what the Audionet Max's brought.
So now my very nice Mola Mola Kaluga's are for sale, and I have ordered another set of the Max's from GTT Audio.
The Mola Mola Kalugas are very nice. The Audionet MAX's are simply amazing.
One other thing. I had my very nice Audience AU 24SX cables initially.
I demo'd the KS Elation stuff, and damn it, they were better (to me, in my system). So now I have replaced half of my cables with KS, and plan on the other one soon. I do hear the best sound when all the cables match.
As you well know, the ability to swap components in and out of system is very revealing. What an amazing hobby with all the choices and certainly all the opinions! Soo many flavours of ice cream, but some ice cream shops are just way better than others!
Thanks again for all you do, and sorry so many seem to attack. I know you would love the Audionet Max's and beyond!
Take care all, Ken
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It would be great to get some VAC gear up against these heavyweight SS amps!
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Why is it excellent new ? |
