Music for setting up speakers

@rodman99999 I know this is an older thread but are you aware Von Scweikert recommends using pink noise for set up in their owner's manuals?

I would use the Doors First album,Vocal and music.Plus you  get the energy and loudness you need to set up the system.You want vocals Joan Baze ,Diamonds and Rust.Good Luck.

the old stand-bys of tests for frequency response, dynamic tracking, depth/stereo imaging [particularly the LEDR test]. then, i'd put on the RCA red seal CD of the CSO/Reiner performing rimsky-korsakov/debussy, as that recording has a very wide dynamic range, you can hear everything in the recording [including low-level "musical sounds" such as musicians breathing, clothes rustling, chairs squeaking and music stands rustling] only on a system properly engineered and properly set-up. then i'd listen to the Telarc 1812 overture cannons to make sure your system can handle deep loud bass. i also have a Laserlight CD of virgil fox playing a bach organ number ["toccata, adadio and fugue"] featuring the most extreme frequency and dynamic range of any recording i've heard, bass featuring cleanly recorded 16 cycle fundamentals, ppp and then sforzando all stops out [deafening!]. the aforementioned pure 16 cycle tones reveal doubling in a speaker that can't handle it.

I second and use the XLO reference recordings CD.  It has many uses applicable to a system; im not sure if it's available in an LP format.

Good luck,
Jose 

The question im asking is well after the advice you are offering. Im at the listening point now……geez :0/

its like ur all in the wrong thread, thats a couple doors down Lol

" *ONLY one’s ears can detect that and there are way too many variables. "
you dont understand my posts. i dont necessarly disagree with you,

"there’s no way Pink Noise and a mic can predict the reproduction of an accurate sound stage and image placement*"
accurate soundstage and image placement is directly related to early reflections. Almost unvariably, everyone that treat his early reflections will mention how the soundstage open up.

when you treat those early reflections, moving the speaker 10 cm this way or 10cm will not shift the image like a untreated space do.

therefore, the premise that using music to find the best speaker position for soundstage and pin point imaging is flawed. Treating the early reflection is the solution. if you cant treat your space, sure using music to try to find the best speaker position works great. I used to do this myself, until I treated my space

       Sorry OP, but facts are facts and when someone takes them to task...

@fiesta75-          
                     "...but he's accurate for initial setup."
         
    I've always done the same (whether in my own home, or a customer's) far as initial setup, but: there's no way Pink Noise and a mic can predict the reproduction of an accurate sound stage and image placement*, which is about what the OP seemed interested.

     Even if using the FFT and reverberation time measurements (time gating) as do some of the latest room correction programs and analyzers.

    *ONLY one's ears can detect that and there are way too many variables.  
             https://blogs.keysight.com/blogs/tech/rfmw.entry.html/2020/12/16/spectrum_analysisba-ObEM.html

 https://www.minidsp.com/applications/acoustic-measurements/loudspeaker-measurements

rodman - He may be obtuse, but he's accurate for initial setup. My 2¢ 😁

Oops, forgot the link:

https://www.getbettersound.com/

In the book Get Better Sound, Jim Smith uses The Chieftains Tears of Stone. He cites specific passages and what the specific goal is for that passage. It's a long, tedious process most expensive audio equipment owners won't perform for various reasons, the main being that they don't trust their ears. It's easier to read reviews and throw money at the problem.

Jim also lists several hundred other well recorded/mastered CDs, a number of which he uses for his RoomPlay Reference sessions (a bargain and highly recommended). Interesting to note that very few of these CDs are audiophile releases.

@muphythecat-     

                                   "what?"

                            You're OBTUSE!

murphythecat - Your suggestion to use pink noise is a very good one. I’m not sure many in this forum understand what you are saying though. You can use pink noise with just your ears, I’m sure you would agree. Of course a mic and SPL would be better.

How much time do you want to spend before listening? Tweaks and test equipment can be used later. If you want to get it up and running, tape measure and some music you are familiar with. Something with vocals is always quite revealing.

Thanx man, i love her first album, picked up the vinyl version, waiting for my Champagne Parasound HINT6 to show up so i can hear vinyl for the first time in years :0)

I think a good method is to use a track with a female vocal and fairly deep bass and move the speakers away from the walls to achieve the best balance between bass response and vocal clarity.  As you move closer to the walls the bass might increase, but the vocal may get muddy.  This will always involve a compromise, so just move around until you get the balance you like.  I think Nora Jones' first record (Come Away With Me) works well. A lot of tracks on there fill the bill. Trouble is, in real-world rooms, the traditional formulas for speaker placement don't always work and you need to just tune by ear. IMO of course. 

I wasnt gonna get a cd player, but looks like that might be a nice option i guess

Dave Holland, i’ll give that a try. 
I’ll be giving this a serious listen later, thank you, i stream from Tidal and this sounds pretty cool, thanx

I was giving NatalieMerchant a few listens this afternoon and vocals are so listenable, hours of listening and no fatigue 

Murph, give it a break man, this thread is about listening to music, chill out, grab a beer or a smoke and lets talk music man.

" So many keystrokes and still no explanation, as to how your microphone, with your mentioned Pink and White Noise, detects/measures accurate sound staging and image placement."
place the mic at the listening poisition.
download arta
use pink noise in arta
measure your room.

"
Sabine reflections can/will be measured in any room (treated or not), with the right equipment (which VERY view audio buffs will possess), but- still reveal nothing, regarding imaging or sound stage info recovery.     They can only help one ASSUME: everything is groovy!"
what?

    

Yello? You have to be kidding. I really like Yello. The old guy is a riot but it is terrible music to evaluate loudspeakers. How do you know what an electronic instrument sounds like? You don't. It can sound like anything.
You have to use acoustic instruments you are familiar with. I use string quartets, solo piano pieces and jazz with acoustic bass particularly Dave Holland who I have seen 3 times and know his bass well. 
No wonder millercarbon thinks Moabs sound good. Yello is probably the only thing that sounds decent on Tektons. 

@knollbrent Yello is pretty cool, super clean recording, thank you

DireStraits!! Yes
i’ll Q up some MilesDavis thanx man

see that, someones listening thanx

       "Maybe ur just to busy with mics and tape measures, do you guys even listen to your systems, or do you just “use” them like all the words im reading, come on ;0)"

        If your referring to me: my love for music formed a few decades before I ever owned a serious system.    That goes back to Elementary School, music/trumpet classes (1959-ish).

         Played guitar in a band as a teen and have run sound for numerous others, as well as music venues, in the decades since those years.

          There's been much more, in my musical/technical experience, but; what have I to defend, if I'm just trying to obtain a reasonable simulacrum, of that which I am so familiar?  

                                                ie: The real thing.

@kgveteran -

     You asked, "... wondering what you listen to to confirm your setup is right for you."  

                                                I answered.

      Just thought the expressed condescension, toward those seeking better sound, in a non-professional manner, should be addressed.

       Parting shot, on that front (can do nothing but help one's assumptions):  https://www.arauacustica.com/files/publicaciones_relacionados/pdf_esp_140.pdf

                         Didn't occur to me, a little info would hurt.

                                But- it's your thread, so: have fun. 

@murphythecat -

       So many keystrokes and still no explanation, as to how your microphone, with your mentioned Pink and White Noise, detects/measures accurate sound staging and image placement.

        Sabine reflections can/will be measured in any room (treated or not), with the right equipment (which VERY view audio buffs will possess), but- still reveal nothing, regarding imaging or sound stage info recovery.     They can only help one ASSUME: everything is groovy!

        Regarding knowing whether the reproduced sound stage and image placement is accurate or not, using recorded music:

         Just my opinion but: I don't see, outside of having experienced a performance in person, from the position of the mics (in the case of image placement, height/depth of platform, etc), and/or- having an intimate knowledge of the acoustic environment itself (if the metric is also accurate reproduction of a sound space), a listener could make an accurate assessment, as to whether their reproduction is correct or not.

           ESPECIALLY: when so much depends on the way the people at the mixing and recording consoles decided to pan the feeds and tracks.

           OR: is the goal, simply to delight the listener's ears*, with the results?

            Nothing wrong with that, of course; as that's all that matters/counts, to the vast majority of music lovers.

                                          *It's All about: HAPPY LISTENING!

Yello for sure! Playing it now.

Any Marvin Gaye, Dire Straits (love over gold). Miles Davis Bitches Brew.

Christine McVie Song bird on Rumors, you can hear the emotions, so much wanting in that song, its just plain beautiful, the vocal capture her feeling, its amazing

Heres another, the entire Gregory Alan Isakov This Empty Norther Hemisphere, his vocals are recorded wonderfully for center image. Idaho is my fav it does everything right.

Maybe ur just to busy with mics and tape measures, do you guys even listen to your systems, or do you just “use” them like all the words im reading, come on ;0)

boys, just list a song, and why you use it, simple :o)

nothing else……..lets see who follows directions. 

Ok boys, back to the original post. What music to you listen to Lol when ur setup is somewhat complete.

What i’d like to read here is what music for what reasons.

example The NottingHillbillies vocals are amazingly recorded, CSNY So Far compilation has great harmonies.

Enya WaterMark has an extremely spacious sound, almost like my HT with all its channels 

Solo piano David Lanz George Winston, i can get a real sense of the room size ect.

have fun with this, dont try so hard to be right, that creates conversations like we have, pure garbage, bored old men trying to see who knows more.

Just The Music, leave ur Ego at the Door please :0)

" AGAIN: what, exactly, are you measuring; to obtain information, regarding ambience recovery (recorded sound space width, depth and height) and accurate voice placement (whether instrument or vocal)?

What are you using for a source, to produce the signal you’re capturing/measuring, with your mic?"

Yes, Arta software with a cheap measuring mic. Arta have pink/white noise.

Ambience recovery, voice placement and proper soundstage quality is totally related to the speaker-boundaries relationship. ETC measuremets are what is traditionnaly used to understand ETC (rather the rate of decay at different FREQ)

a good room is a room that offer even decay at all frequencies. that can only be acheived (if you want more then a vice-in-head listening position) with treating the early reflections. once the early reflections are treated, moving the right speaker 30 cm here or 30 cm there will not affect ambience, soundstage, ect.

you have to understand that the method proposed by many here, which is to listen to music and place your speakers, can be valid for people who cannot or wont treat their rooms.

@murphythecat -    

          AGAIN: what, exactly, are you measuring; to obtain information, regarding ambience recovery (recorded sound space width, depth and height) and accurate voice placement (whether instrument or vocal)?

           What are you using for a source, to produce the signal you're capturing/measuring, with your mic?

   

     To quote Bobby Owsinksi from his book:  The Mastering Engineer's Handbook, 4th Edition:

"The LEDR test is a substitute for about $30,000 to $40,000 worth of test equipment.

Stereophile also has an article about it, written in 1989 (!) by Bob Katz.

Luckily it's 2016 and we don't have to buy expensive CDs anymore, as there is an online version of this test here: http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_ledr.php

If the sound for the up image doesn’t go straight up from your loudspeaker,six feet in the air as you sit there in your position,then you’ve got a problem with your crossover or with reflections above the loudspeaker.

If the sound doesn’t travel from left to right evenly and smoothly with the left-to-right test,then you’ve got problems with objects between your loudspeakers.

And the same with the beyond signal, which is supposed to go from about one foot to the left of the left speaker, gradually over to one foot to the right of the right speaker, which detects reflections from the side wall."

 

    

" While one can use test instruments, to measure and balance SPLs and correct frequency response aberrations; they can’t replace the human ear, when it comes to ambience recovery and voice placement (whether instrument or vocal). What, exactly, would you measure, pray tell?
"
using a mic is all one need.
ambience recovery and voice placement, if one have a treated room and use early reflection panels, wont be affected by micro speaker placement.
if one have not a treated room, using music to try to find the best placement is totally useless and unreliable. acoustics are a understood science. I dont get how audiophile miss this completely and rely on some sort of voodoo: no room treatment, no proper speaker positioning nor finding the best listening position again using a mic.

No professional would ever work this way, yet a big majority of audiophile have no clue to the damage their room imparts, and rely on audiophile myths (such as put plants in the corner, a thick rug and sofa’s and your room will sound just fine, or use music to find the best speaker placement)

Dear @kgveteran  : The @rodman99999  and the @murphythecat  are very good advises different but very good ones.

I agree that our ears/brain " knows a lot " but measures can tell us what in reality is happening down there even if we like what we are hearing.

About solo acoustic instrument piano is eassential and gives you excellent idea of what you are looking for.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

What chamber music do you refer to, im using Tidal to listen and if i like i’ll hunt down the album eventually. My system by design is set, but product shipping has been an issue, everything in time.....I’m really looking forward to the combined sound of all my pieces, this is exciting.

i like the music suggestions so far, thanx

Btw solo vocalist is another suggested source, who do you like.

Thanx for the Chesky referal!!

                       "Maybe music where instruments are easily located, etc."

      The OP is clearly interested in accurate sound staging and imaging, as (at least) one goal of their set-up (considered two, by some).

      While one can use test instruments, to measure and balance SPLs and correct frequency response aberrations; they can't replace the human ear, when it comes to ambience recovery and voice placement (whether instrument or vocal).   What, exactly, would you measure, pray tell?

       The scientifically designed tests and Chesky CD I mentioned, were created to allow one to use their ears and eliminate any variables, from their listening trials.

Magenta haze > pink noise.

cant believe audiphile who spends thousands on their system, havent understood or been explained clearly that the way to setup a speaker in a room is with a mic and careful measuring.

I fear people missed that Yello and even XLO are a joke. Yello is mood music for unboxing. XLO is a great test CD. But really the music used is way down the list and hardly relevant. 

Speaker setup is first, put them where the tone, and bass response, are pleasant and smooth. It really does not matter what music is used, just so long as it has enough bass variety and enough vocals or instrumentals to be sure of getting a good midrange balance.  

Next step uses a tape measure, no music required. Adjust the speakers to be precisely equidistant and with symmetrical toe in. Finally, listen to lots of music and make very small adjustments to toe. More toe in, deeper image, more precise imaging. Less toe in, wider stage, less precise imaging. When done, double check with the tape measure to be sure they are still perfectly equidistant and symmetrical.

That is it. Done. No special music required at any step in the process. The music you play should be, as always, music you enjoy.

I listened to some solo violin and cello, some folky vocals, some Led Zepp just because :0)

maybe music where instruments are easily located ect

I think you are on the right track listening to solo acoustic instruments. I would add some chamber music to your playlist, so you can get a good picture of how they are reproducing instruments in relation to each other, in an actual acoustic space.

When I am first setting up a system, I try to avoid recordings with a lot of studio production methods, since they tend to disguise how an instrument sounds playing without effects, in a real acoustic space. 

This will also get you a natural sounding soundstage and image, without studio panning, digital delays, phase changes, etc. 

pink noise and a mic

     Whenever speaker set-up, imaging or soundstage are mentioned, I like to remind people about these resources: The following provide tests, with which one may determine whether their system actually images, or reproduces a soundstage, as recorded.  

      Of course: no one is going to be listening to tests, etc.  BUT: it IS good to use these, to eliminate any variables, when making initial set-ups.
     
      ie: On the Chesky sampler/test CD; David explains in detail, his position on the stage and distance from the mics, as he strikes a tambourine(Depth Test).

      The LEDR test tells what to expect, if your system performs well, before each segment.

       The Chesky CD contains a number of tests, in addition to the LEDR.

        (https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_ledr.php)

      and: (https://www.amazon.com/Chesky-Records-Sampler-Audiophile-Compact/dp/B000003GF3)  

      A Stereophile article, that explains the LEDR test:                                             http://www.stereophile.com/features/772/

This https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhneUPOv1JE