Musetec (LKS) MH-DA005 DAC

@jc4659

It is right here before my eyes

shenzhenaudio.com/products/l-k-s-audio-mh-da005-es9038-pro-x-2-dac-coaxial-opt-aes-ebu-flagship-audio-decoder

Just write to Young at support@shenzhenaudio.com and tell him what you want.  It should not be complicated.

I returned my Gustard X26 Pro to shenzhenaudio. They sent me a another one as replacement. A great online dealer.

I should have clarified that I have my 005 delivered to me about 2 weeks after ordering.

I sent another email to the address you listed.  The website no longer lists the DA005. This is concerning.

@jc4659

I just received an email reply from Young at Shenzhen:

"The Musetec DAC might take 3-5 days before shipping. We could help to match the Black Friday sale price for you"

There you go . . . and the price is right!

I suggest an email to Shenzhen directed to Young with this quote.  support@shenzhenaudio.com

@jc4659 

The chat function on Shenzhen seems not to be working.  That's quite unusual.  I suggest you try it tomorrow.  They can also be reached by email.  I don't think that has anything to do with availability of the product.

A couple of weeks ago I contacted the factory about an order for someone.  I was told that even if not in stock, they could produce one within a week.

If Shenzhen fails to come alive soon, you can contact the factory by email and inquire there.  All things being equal you might prefer Shenzhen for their 30 day no question return privilege.  I don't know that anyone has used it though. 

When I bought my 005 maybe 3 weeks ago from Shenzhen they said that Musetec was building my unit. They did not have any DACs in stock.

Someone at another forum just purchased 005 from Clear Components out of Germany,

@melm 

I did. Crickets...

@jc4659

Apos has been showing "sold out" for over a year.

If you want to know of availability at Shenzhen I suggest you ask them.

I wonder if there is anything left to mod in the DA005.  Apos is showing "sold out" so I'm guessing these are backordered even at Shenzhen Audio.  Any info on availability?

@yyzsantabarbara

There are too many reasons to prefer separates rather than an all-in-one digital component. I’m sure I don’t have to list them for you. I will always go separates.

On another of your posts, I finally figured out who you wer talking about. I first heard about LKS DACs when Ric posted about the 004 on the Asylum. It had just been launched and represented a major advance over the 003. He was recommending it, straight from the factory, to a professional classical musician and occasional recorded music critic, who is a major participent and moderator on that forum. I’ve always considered classical music to be the most difficult to reproduce both because it can be the most complex and because it can be compared to the real classical music event. For all of these reasons, and including Ric’s reputation, I thought it was a DAC worth looking into. I did an extensive due diligence and eventually went for it myself. As you know, because the LKS DAC has the fundamentals right and because of its wide open architecture is became one of Ric’s modification products. Because of its quality from the factory though, there wasn’t very much he could do to improve it. It was and is his least expensive mod, I think.

To take advantage of fiber 006 would have to be streamer of course, not sure all dac manufacturers have engineering prowess to create streamer dac. Another good thing would be to have all network devices have own internal linear power supply. When I think how simplified optimized streaming could be made assuming internal linear power supplies and fiber enabled, audiophile router or switch>server>steamer dac. That's all, three  pieces and you have it!

@arafiq  You're correct, mixing up my SOTM SMS200 Neo.

@yyzsantabarbara  Yes indeed. I suspect audiophile fiber enabled network devices on way soon, I see present devices as consumable items, audiophile network innovations coming fast and furious. Makes one stop and wonder how much money to throw at this? But then we do want to maximize sq in the present.

@sns I’m assuming you meant to say Eno instead of Neo?

Icing on the cake for me would be if the 005 had a Fibre input for streaming and was ROON READY. Call it the 006.

Fiber conversion post server is certainly up there in effectiveness. Other galvanic isolation devices such as Uptone etherregen, Network Acoustics Neo filter, many others. I'm about to try the Neo. Always use linear power supplies with any network devices, cool thing about Neo is no power cord needed, passive device. My experience and many others has been network optimization post server most important.

I have Singxer SU-6, hdmi cable goes into 005. SU-6 has configurable pin outs on hdmi as there is no standard for hdmi inputs on dacs.

Who knows when it comes to clocks, lots of differing opinions, I'm still gathering information on this since bad experience with clock.  I'd upgrade usb feed with renderers before I'd mess with added clocks. Devices like SOTM SMS200, Uptone USB regen, many others. USB is easily most optimized input with 005, wonderful sound quality all of getting with usb testament to it's quality.

My take on most effective optimized feed from server to 005 would be server>FMC(fiber) > usb renderer(many choices) >005. This would be fundamentals of great streaming feed, everything else icing on cake.

@sns any tips on optimization of the network? I have a cat-8 Ethernet to my Innuos MK3, but otherwise that's it, nothing fancy.

If you did run I2S, how would you do it?

I’m tempted to try the Gaia since some reviews claim a sound jump when used with the Innuos Statement and I2S.

@ja_kub_sz  Cd rips don't sound any better than streams on my setup. Optimizing network makes all the difference with streams.

I'm also agnostic about his res vs 16/44. I'm continually amazed by how much more information extracted with  system upgrades, thought I was at limit of 16/44 years ago. Still waiting to hear 16/44 resolving limit.

I2S vs usb, until someone actually uses I2S with 005, only speculation. I have capability of running I2S, no motivation since 005 with usb so good. Whatever, its just a matter of tradeoffs, external vs internal I2S conversion.

Melm, thanks for correcting me on handshake, brain fade.

I've been doing more listening with the I2S and will drop the DDC and just run USB from my Zenith and see what my ears think. I thought I2S had advantages over USB as far as data separation and was reading up on peoples reviews on the PS audio forums.

But if the 005 is already doing what the Matrix is, and doing it better, maybe it should go?

@ja_kub_sz

I agree with @dbb. The Amanero board in the Musetec does exactly what the Matrix 2 SPDIF DDC does, converting the USB input to I2S. Moreover, it has the advantage of better clocks, a more sophisticated power supply and one less cable. Of course anything is possible and if it sounds better to you, then just enjoy it.

A better case can be made, I think, for a device with ethernet input and I2S output that will bypass the USB entirely. I believe we have already discussed that possibility.

@ja_kub_sz 

Have you listened to it through USB? I think that the consus is that this input method has been optimized over the others. The argument I have heard against a ddc to I2s is that it is unnecessary since this is what the usb input is doing.

I too am loving this DAC, I’ve been ripping all my CD’s onto my Zenith and using a Matrix 2 SPDIF DDC with separate LPS and I2S to the 005 and XLR to my Technics SU-R1000. This DAC has become the star of my system and am really happy I made the jump (100% money well spent).

I would like to hear other peoples take on running I2S with the Musetec 005 and whatever DDC/reclockers that people a utilizing.

100% am a believer in the improved microdynamics and width and depth of sound stage with ripped CD’s over streaming.

Can’t again a better sound from my system then with this thing. But I’ll be honest the Technics SU-R1000’s phono stage might have the 005 beat (or equally as good).

I was floors when I calibrated my Ortofon MC Blue and played a LP with cartridge optimization and crosstalk canceling DSP from the SU-R1000. I have XLR outs from my TT and a separate LPS and I was just shocked at how on a head to head comparison of the amazing Musetec 005 and my digital array, my Vinyl sounds maybe even better.

I’m just smiling sitting in my listening room as my wife thinks I’m insane.

My own experience is that the 5V line does not have to be blocked, though some do that.  I have heard no difference. I'm guessing that Pin 1 in the Musetec is not connected to anything.  So called "handshaking" is done by the ground wire (Pin 4) which absolutely must be connected or the USB connection will not be made.  It can actually be disconnected after the handshake and some people do that.

Optimizing network likely benefits all dac, I'd expect IsoRegen to do same for 005. Even the optimized usb input of 005 benefits from usb renderers such as Sotm, UptoneUSB regen, and others.

@sns 

I was using an Uptone Audio IsoRegen with my Ayre Codex so that's why I asked. I'd prefer not to use add-on devices if they can be avoided but the IsoRegen made a significant and audible improvement.

Playing my 2500 cd's from rips so much better than physically searching through that muddle, only took me something like a year of off and on ripping to get all on NAS, terrible ordeal.

@jc4659 I use Audioquest Diamond usb, just tape off 5v power pin on this or any usb with power. Special order usb without power available from some manufacturers. Worthwhile to get rid of noise injected into dac. Some dacs don't need the 5v power, but need the handshake so needs to remain intact, 005 not needed.

If I understand you correctly, added clocking may or may not be desirable, usb clocking within 005 is top notch. My recent less than good experience with added clocking did not go well. At this very moment in contact with owner/operator of Network Acoustics, discussing this very issue of clocking. Looks like I'll be trying their Eno filter, very well reviewed here!

Update on my tube burn in. Tubes beginning to come in just now, bloom just underway, 005 sounding better than ever. Already even more natural timbre along with added resolving powers of boutique tubes. 005 magnificent, and to think more bloom on way! And so, yet to find a single fault of this dac,

@melm -"As for ripping disks, if you want to experiment, the popular free computer program for doing that is Exact Audio Copy."

Thanks for the info. Next opportunity I'm going to get an external disk drive and use it and Exact Audio Copy to try this out. My Aurender has 2TB of storage. 

"Of course a benefit of playing your own music from a hard disk is that it can be done from your easy chair."

That's more than one person's idea of nirvana.

One more update--played my better half her CD copy of The Nutcracker. She remarked that she heard instruments she did not know were there. 

@melm 

Thanks!

@jc4659

A distinguishing feature of Curious Cables is that the 5V line is run outside of the cable, presumably so as not to compromise the flow of digital data through the cable.

In the case of the Musetec, and some other fine DACs, the 5V cable is superfluous; it is not used at all. The 5V is provided for internally in the DAC. This is a far better solution. Otherwise a Curious cable is a fine cable. If you have one, it can surely be used.

My personal recommendation is for a solid core cable. These come in copper, silver plated copper and pure silver. I currently use one in copper, but will be experimenting.

As for a reclocker, I’m not sure I understand exactly what you have in mind. Some of us use bridges or streamers or decrapifiers that do have clocks in them.

Anyone using a Curious usb cable with this dac? Is the usb cable that comes with it any good or would I need to find a better one? Lastly, does this dac benefit from a reclocker or is this superfluous?  Getting ready to pull the trigger...

@yyzsantabarbara 

"This is now easily the best DAC I have ever owned. Thanks to the guys who posted on this DAC and also @ricevs who told me that all his customers were getting Musetec DACs. I now understand why."

I'm happy to hear you're enjoying it. It is gratifying to have helped spread the news along with others especially melm and sns.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/does-a-ripped-cd-onto-a-digital-format-sound-better-than-the-cd-played  This previous discussion about rips vs. transport.

I believe it has a lot to do with quality of transport, the less jitter induced here the better. Mark Levinson #37 I previously owned  and died would have given rips a good run for the money.

My unit is likely sufficiently burned in now since that fatigue, I was experiencing in the beginning is now gone. I was listening to some hard rock for most of the day yesterday and I noticed that the bit of fatigue I was experiencing went away near the end of the day. So something changed.

This morning I put on Clockwork Angels by RUSH, which is not a quiet album. I played it over 80 dBs in my small room and had the best sound I ever had from this album. No fatigue.

This is now easily the best DAC I have ever owned. Thanks to the guys who posted on this DAC and also @ricevs who told me that all his customers were getting Musetec DACs. I now understand why.

@wharfy

About ripping CDs, yes all the data is 16/44 yet it can be heard differently as it passes through one or another USB cable or as it passes through my SOtM sMS-200 or sns’s Uptone regen. It’s the old "bits are bits" argument, or not. I have convinced myself through experimentation that running files from a hard disk yields better SQ than playing silver disks. Similarly that ethernet wiring yields better SQ than wi-fi, and that it’s beneficial to use even a very inexpensive ethernet switch. Yet it’s all 16/44.

You have an Aurender server. Typically "server" is a hard disk where the digital audio files are stored. I don’t know too much about Aurenders, but I suppose that they relate to a hard disk either within or without. As for ripping disks, if you want to experiment, the popular free computer program for doing that is Exact Audio Copy. Of course a benefit of playing your own music from a hard disk is that it can be done from your easy chair.

@melm 

you make a couple good points, and have given me some ideas to ponder. Great point about the power supply and analog out. In my experience I’ve had some equipment, like a Music Hall Dac, that had a fantastic analog output, making it an overachiever. The Spring 1 KTE that I am ready to sell has a great power supply.

I’ve been following various threads about ripping CDs and streaming them for superior sound. Not sure about a number of things-If CDs are playing at 16/44 on a CD transport, why do they sound better ripped and streamed? Is it the limitations of the transport, or in the case of the 005 the USB and I2S configurations?

I don’t have anything to rip CD’s, nor do I totally understand JRiver. It’s a bit overwhelming (pun intended).

I’m 120 hours or so into the break-in period. Sounding better everyday. Many 005 owners speak glowingly of the DAC’s coherency. I definitely agree. I’m beginning to hear a wonderful synergy with the DAC and my Audio Research amp/preamp combination. The 3D presence of the music is something I wanted. The source component and the AR combo is providing that. I will definitely recommend this DAC.

Last thought-researching prices for a used 004, I imagine I they are a good price/quality purchase.

Thanks again!

What is anything worth? I listen to music all day long and enjoy it as part of my daily routine. So, a better DAC is worth it for me. The Topping is a very good DAC and excellent for the price. A couple of things that give me pause from getting a second Musetec is that the Topping DAC system is in a noisy room with a lot of stuff happening, I also like the small form factor of the Topping for that system. The Mustec is big and a bit heavy and I would have to place it on top of a tuner.

However, the Musetec could really open up (the bass) in my Topping DAC system since the room is rather big. The Mustec is usually $3300 but on sale these days.

yyzsantabarbara - the Topping Dac retails at $750. Is the 005 worth $2,250 more?

@westcoastaudiophile I am not a huge tube fan and the Gustard X26 Pro was a bit warmer than my go to DAC which was the Benchmark DAC3B. Now the DAC3B is a little hot on top but I can make it work with my warmish CODA 07x preamp.

The Gustard maybe preferred by people that like a bit more warmth in the sound. I actually thought it was excellent for the most part, but there were times I thought the DAC3B sounded better with some music. It is just a preference issue and I cannot say the Gustard was worse than the DAC3B.

The 005 sounds a little less warm than the Gustard but warmer than the DAC3B. There seems to be more bass from the 005. My music seems more dense or filled in with the 005. I was getting some fatigue listening to the 005, but now that is gone away. I have about 50 hours on the DAC. I think that fatigue was due to a bit of coarseness in the sound during break-in with more bass. Now that is all gone way, I have the best sound from a DAC I have ever had in this system. The 005 is also very coherent sounding with no frequency sticking out. The DAC3B is a little bass shy compared to the 005 and a bit hotter on top. I do like the DAC3B still and plan on keeping it long term.

If the 005 had 2 optical inputs I could easily use just the 005 in the office system and move my DAC3B elsewhere.

The more I listen to the 005 I realize I hit a homerun with this purchase. If this DAC was not physically so big, I would buy a second one for my downstairs system to replace the Topping D90SE I have there. It is a very good DAC but the 005 is better.

One could use rca out, I believe balanced/XLR superior. RCA or SPDIF in not 005 optimized in, usb superior, still possible to use the rca.

Is it possible to achieve optimal performance leve; of the Musetek 005 if one uses rca interconnects and rca digital cable?  Thanks for your response!

My last great cd transport was Mark Levinson #37, when it died never found equal trans., motivated me to try streaming. Never looked back, cd rips were better than cd's over my last transport. Having said that, look at the new ProJect CD Box RS2 if keeping with cd transport. This designed by same guys who developed Phillips Pro transport in ML #37, lots of rave reviews for this. I give great credence to those reviews.

@wharfy 

It's so nice to read your impressions of the DAC.  There's always a bit of anxiety for some of us recommending an audio product.  When writing of the LKS 004 I was never so secure in a recommendation though I thought it was, and is, a fine DAC for the money.  But the Musetec is the real deal.  We keep saying that it's "implementation."  To me that means mostly power supply and analog section.  Those are places where this DAC excels.  But they're not the only places.

Glad you could get it at the Black Friday price which is ending today.

As for CDs, everyone will have their own solution.  My CD player is an Oppo 105, likely not as good as your player.  I doubt that you will find a quality disk player that will output USB.  I determined easily that ripped CDs even played simply from a USB hard disk to laptop (using Jriver) to DAC provided better SQ than playing from the disk player.  Plus the convenience.  So I ripped my CDs and now have a more sophisticated set-up.  It took a while, but a few each day . . .  Can you rip to your server?

I'm experiencing my own burn in issues with two Psvane Acme 300B in amps,and two Linlai Elite 101D tubes in  Coincident Statement pre. Big boost in resolving powers with Acme vs former Shuguang 300B.

This is as much a test of 005 as amp and pre. Since getting 005 I've been on quest to maximize overall system resolving powers in order to determine if 005 has some defect or defects I can illuminate with increasing resolution. At this point only 25 hours on Psvane, 15 on Linlai, so far two four hour listening sessions, first listening session very fatigued by end, second listening session fatigue lessened, but still there. With last session I heard a bit more bloom about two hours in. Someone less experienced with power tube burn in may describe what I'm hearing as digititus, blame dac. I can only say sheer resolving powers of 005 and upgraded system are such that the fatigue I'm experiencing by end of session is as much due to overwhelming sense of immersion, density of sound waves throughout room. I've long had sense of performers in room in my setup, this has been greatly heightened since 005, and recent tubes. I now feel as though I can reach out and touch performers, very surreal.

All this makes me wonder about resolving limits of 16/44 and 005. How deeply can  005 plunge the depths of resolution available with cd quality recordings? For anyone contemplating purchase of 005, sheer resolution and micro dynamic realism are it's calling cards. Still determining whether this is accompanied by  quality of timbre, tonality. It must have natural color  for long term enjoyment. Some tricks are easier to accomplish than others, we shall see.

I am at about 100 hours into owning and playing my 005. I’ve been running my Aurender server non-stop since setting up the 005. There is a definite improvement in the sound. Staging, depth of sound, the highs and lows are all opening up and naturalizing, so to speak.

Prior to this DAC, I’ve owned a Spring 1 KTE for 4 years and liked the sound very much. The 005 has the qualities I liked in the KTE-dark background, fluidity, and then has much more to enjoy. The clarity is just awesome. When considering the 005, I was concerned about upper register digital glare. None, unless it’s in the recording. Another thing I like about the 005 is its resolution and clarity of micro details. At lower volume I can hear a lot of detail.

At the moment the music server is feeding the DAC via USB, and my Cambridge CD CXC transport is hooked up via TOSLINK and for comparison coax. At the moment, USB has better sound. If I could demo a CD transport with a USB out it would be interesting to A/B it with my current DAC.

I’m going to continue streaming, and by Friday night, when I have my next best chance to listen closely, I will have over 200 hours playing time.

I’m really glad I purchased this DAC, and the responses I’ve gotten on this thread have been very helpful.

Hey @yyzsantabarbara , can you please provide more details, etc, you did find better in 005 vs X26, sound/feels/measurements/blind-sound-check?

thanks

@melm I switched from my CODA 07x preamp (easy for the dog to hit volume) to the Benchmark LA4 preamp. Both sit side-by-side and share XLR and RCA inputs between the Musetec 005 and Benchmark DAC3B outputs. I have also matched the gain on the CODA 07x preamp between the 2 DACs (not LA4 gain). The Musetec is connected to the LA4 by RCA. I have almost identical Sonore OpticalRendu’s going into the USB of each DAC. The only difference between the 2 streamers is the LPS and USB cable, both of which are not noticeable to me.

The 005 now must have more than 30 hours. I have been playing it into my RAAL speaker interface box when I am not around. So, the unit has been getting nice and warm each day.

I did do some comparisons between the DAC3B and 005 using the CODA 07x preamp and my RAAL SR1a headphones. The CODA 07x preamp was gain matched as mentioned above. Now I expected to hear differences with the SR1a since it is incredibly revealing. However, at this point in time I could not tell a single difference between the 2 DACs on the RAAL. I was shocked at this. I used ROON GROUPED streaming to both DACs.

On my Thiel CS3.7 speakers I did notice a difference between the 2 DACs on both preamps. First of all, I am still getting a bit of fatigue from the 005. However, this fatigue is going down to almost negligible levels. I think this is because the 005 may have more bass energy and also the unit is breaking it. The sound also seems to be denser on my Thiels, the soundstage more filled in, which is great. It could be the bass?

I also notice the tone on the 005 is really gorgeous. The whole range of sound is so coherent, with nothing seemingly out of place. The DAC3B has a more noticeable top end, which a friend of mine attributes to a bit less bass (he also owns the DAC3B). I like the DAC3B for certain music like hard rock, to get the juices flowing. The 005 seems to sound like what I was going after. Something a little less ’hot’ than the DAC3B, more like my departed Gustard X26 Pro, but with greater sharpness and detail without the top end sounding ’hot’.

I need to give the 005 more hours because I can hear the changes in sound and my fatigue going away.

My prior DACs were the following:

- Benchmark DAC3B (and others)

- Topping DAC90SE

- KRELL K300i (internal DAC in integrated amp)

- Matrix Audio Mini I-3 (sold)

- Gustard X26 Pro (sold)

- AudioMirror Tubadour III SE (sold)

The 005 is already the best (for me) of the bunch. I will post updated photos later tonight because my office system is DONE. No more purchases for this system.

All inputs on all dacs converted to I2S, I2S protocol is inherent to all dacs. The supposed advantage of I2S conversion prior to dac is to bypass this conversion process within dac, some claim bypassing that conversion within lends itself to sound quality improvements.

While that may be true, external I2S converters may have their own issues, you're adding a fair amount of complexity with external conversion. Also, in case of 005, usb has top notch optimization. The only thing I'm not quite sure of, is there variable quality of I2S inputs on dacs? Being a native protocol within dacs, I'm not sure there can be any quality variability with I2S inputs.

@melm ​​​​@sns -This morning's sound update-The sound is improving. It is more organic.

Played with the DAC this morning. The Singxer SU-1 is redundant. I am happy I have simplified cabling. When I sell the Spring 1 KTE I will include it as part of the sale. 

I am reading the manual and if I understand correctly TOSLINK and coax are not converted to I2S. Yes?